Dear All Bards,

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

If I had a nickel for every lolbrd in this game, I'd be richer than Bill Gates.

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but the problem is that the same could be said from every other job :

melees that dont even know what flank is
smn that refuse to rez (or dont even know they can!) ,virus ? no gonna waste GCD on that lol
monks that dont have mantra on thier bars and dont use DK
nin that only use huton + raiton.....suiton? meh does less dmg than raiton /facepalm...
tanks not using CDs at all, pulling with provoke ect
healers that go cleric stance and forgot about healing

WoD and DF sometimes is a whole different game ...i get it ppl are new to this game and nead to learn , but come on , not even having all your skills in your bars and reading what that new skill/spell does ? looks like if doesnt doesnt dmg ppl doesnt care.... (see blm spaming FIRE III just because is III so that means is better than I lol)

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

(see blm spaming FIRE III just because is III so that means is better than I lol)

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I had a Sastasha HM run a while back with a random BLM who all they did was spam Fire III and nothing else. Not even using their AoEs. Just Fire III spam. The result was them doing around 139 DPS throughout the entire dungeon, while the SCH put out 180 (they could've done more if the BLM actually AoE'd during the big pulls, killing mobs faster) and myself as the BRD around 460. Some players are so unbelievably bad at this game it astounds me.

I always play Foe's.
I also play Ballad if healers have issues.
I always battle voice when it's required. :)

I don't have to bash on any other job to get my point across...
Alls I have to say is "You're Welcome!"

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

I am going to leave this discussion there because I have said all I needed to say despite your ignoring of the points I made and clearly making things up which was never said by me to further your agenda. If your just going to keep resorting to lying and making things up then your not worth my time here.

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Just reposting this, since it seems your good-bye wasn't really a good-bye at all. ;)

Ask SE put this options...
end of story.. Bard have 2 options - DPS or Support.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8593/...20c5dd2e04.jpg

if I see that theres BLM or SMN I normally use Foe, but if not I use Army's for the tanks and other DPS with battle voice, when playing BRD.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Just do your job instead of worrying about them speeding up your clearance time.

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This thread is so enlightening....

I guess I don't need to be concerned with efficiency. Who knew?!

Since Bards are apparently allowed to ignore a chunk of the abilties that define the job itself.....

I can stop using Goad on people when they need it.

I can stop using Trick Attack to support group damage.

I can stop using Dancing Edge because the extra slashing damage just makes the mob die faster and that isn't important.

I don't need to worry myself with Ninjutsu because Mudra are just so darned pesky to put in the right order.

I'm a DPS. I can just hit things because I'm not part of a team. This should be relaxing.

Oh, and no one is allowed to complain about the glacial pace of completing the content, you speed-running elitists! It's my job and I'll play it how I want!

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

Ask SE put this options...
end of story.. Bard have 2 options - DPS or Support.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8593/...20c5dd2e04.jpg

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Fixed it for you:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...pslkkt28in.jpg

(Yes I have far too much free time on my hands at work).

Yes, there was intent, but it failed. They can't have BRD like they want unless they make the gameplay deeper. Its sooo cookie cutter that they can't. First, they need to create a support role. This trinity is not good for the depth of the jobs. I mean they are gonna have to do that in order to bring more jobs n the future....or you will have this game with 75% dps, and the rest split between healer and Tank. That's the only way. Then we will see jobs being played like they are supposed to be played. BRD and Archer should be two different jobs/classes...just like scholar and summoner. It doesn't make sense. What next? every job from here on out after heavensward will be either stupid or not in game, like samurai, blue mage, geomancer, etc. SE can't keep making jobs and saying" we'll...its not a healer, and its not a tank..so it must be DPS." That's not gonna work

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Some players are so unbelievably bad at this game it astounds me.

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Had a BLM who fire 3>blizz 3> fire 3>blizz 3. only 1 cast of each. Another who fire 1 till empty, blizz one spam till full, When I explained in a friendly manner of optimal BLM rotation, got abuse back and supposably they have a level 50 FCoB BLM. and they know what they are doing, yeah... sure. MNKs who cant even maintain GL1. DRGs who blamed me (I was on SCH)for them jumping during an AE and subsequently dieing. Unfortunatelly medica doesnt cure stupid :P French SCH who never left Cleric stance healed, or even summoned a fairy, 3 wipes on first pull in AK HM. Low level tanks in caster gear. List goes on and depressingly on.

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Originally Posted by Accolade

Fixed it for you:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...pslkkt28in.jpg

(Yes I have far too much free time on my hands at work).

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That made me giggle snort XD Funny thing is, even if you qued as support in Rift, you were expected to go DPS. As giong 1xsupport 2xdps made things harder than going 3xdps. So you qued as support and then switched to DPS when you got in.

Don't put the bard in danger, Foe's only good when they are close to the target. They are better off reserving that MP for ballad for the healers to res all the dead players over and over. The WHM and SMN players really do appreciate the ballads.

Honestly IMO (I main a bard) I play songs while in WOD, CT etc but if you are talking roulette expert it really depends on the situation.

Foe's whenever I have a caster or smart healer who dps's, maybe TP if its a speedrun but aside from that THERE IS ZERO REASON FOR TP or BALLAD IN EXPERT -- End of story...period.

Speedruns you can argue for TP or ballad even (holy spam) but by the time the next pull gets done everyone is usually full.


You can call it lazy all you want but at the end of the day its the truth. ANYONE arguing that is only lowering their dps. If you arent speedrunning you dont need TP or MP and RARELY do you need it even if you are speedrunning. Its called being more effcient, want me to play a song that lowers my damage by 20% when you dont even need it? Dumbest thing ever.


A good bard isnt a bard who just plays songs whenever they are barked at, a good bard is the one who plays without you asking and knows when to turn them off. Some of you people in this thread amaze me.

I do tend to notice that I'm one of the few Bards that actually sings much. I try to sing when needed in dungeons and usually have Foes up on bosses in the CT runs just to speed it up some. If in 4 man content and there is a Blm or Smn then Foe will be up as often as possible. I've healed many a dungeon where there is a Brd and Blm and there is no Foe up the whole fight. If I do happen to see a Foe up often enough then that Brd will get my Comm.

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Originally Posted by NeoZanther

I do tend to notice that I'm one of the few Bards that actually sings much. I try to sing when needed in dungeons and usually have Foes up on bosses in the CT runs just to speed it up some. If in 4 man content and there is a Blm or Smn then Foe will be up as often as possible. I've healed many a dungeon where there is a Brd and Blm and there is no Foe up the whole fight. If I do happen to see a Foe up often enough then that Brd will get my Comm.

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Singing is super important, and I make sure to pay extra attention to whatever Bard does in my part so I may commend them.

Foe Requiem: Reduces all enemy magic resistance by 10%. MP is drained while singing. Effect is lost if targets move out of hearing distance, and ends upon reuse. Cannot be used with other songs.

Note how it doesn't talk about a 20% damage reduction while playing?

The excuses that many of these Bard main use is so very disappointing. Other than losing MP there is NO penalty for using Foes if there is atleast one caster in the party and many healers will atleast dps a bit, too. Mobs/bosses die a bit faster on "easy" content.

I'm still learning BRDing, but hell if I see I have caster in party, of course I will use Foe, I also keep my eyes on the MP of the healer if they need Ballad, and at the beginning I always tell tank, that if they need to ask for Peony, because I'm so bad I still don't understand if they are out or not. If tank dies, and healer has enough MP after resurrecting, I go first with Peony to give tank at least a chance to get aggro back. But I noticed in CT, ST and WOD, even if there is casters, bards tend not to use Requem.

BUT I'm still learning to use it well - for ballad I train with my healer, so i get the idea where to start it without her asking.

Is it a wonder with more than 50% of the ppl semi-afking and leeching for rewards? It's not just bards, although I agree that Foe should always be up when multiple bards are present.

I Foe+BV and am the top dps in the raid like 95% of the time. As a bard. Just goes to show off how much people slack in the raid overall. I would rather direct my blame to anyone just afking there like an idiot.

Sorry, I never use Foes for easy stuff. WOD/CT/ST are easy mode. I like to save my Mp for the Healers. FYI: Foe's grabs hate. Most players are OVERGEARED for Pug raids.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Sorry, I never use Foes for easy stuff. WOD/CT/ST are easy mode. I like to save my Mp for the Healers. FYI: Foe's grabs hate. Most players are OVERGEARED for Pug raids.

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FYI: If you're so overgeared for shit, why would you even save that mp for ballad when you can make the run go faster? Healers shouldn't even need that ballad unless they're bad.

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

The only time that Foe Requiem shouldn't be played, or should be turned off, is when the tank is still grabbing groups for the pull

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Actually a good tank will aggro them all properly while pulling already. Not one and then face pull the rest. Flash or overpower once is enough. Then the following can happen in no real order:

a) swiftcast stoneskin as needed
b) eye for eye as needed
c) even a regen can tick for a bit without issue
d) foe can be put up without worry

Problem is soo many tanks don't do that and just run and run until they come to rest.

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Originally Posted by Elkya95

FYI: If you're so overgeared for shit, why would you even save that mp for ballad when you can make the run go faster? Healers shouldn't even need that ballad unless they're bad.

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That, and there's really no reason for a Bard to have Foe Requiem up between fights. You'd just be wasting your MP in the meantime as well as running the risk of pulling the next set of trash mobs/boss.

But everyone here who plays Bard ought to know their Job well enough by now to realize that Foe's doesn't need to be up at ALL times, just during the fights themselves, right? And that it literally takes absolutely no effort on their part to play a song and keep it going for the duration of the fight, occasionally clicking Battle Voice whenever it's off CD to help things along, yes? Kind of like they ought to be doing while cycling through the timers for Straight Shot, Venomous Bite, Windbite (not necessarily in that specific order), Bloodletter, Flaming Arrow, and Rain of Death, alongside throwing up their Class/Job-specific offensive buffs and Cross-Classed buffs to occasionally spike their damage output, hm?

Of course, if some people just really don't enjoy the idea of playing their Job to its maximum efficiency (something, for Bards on the "easiest content" at least, which only consists of pressing a set of buttons occasionally and staying out of AoEs while watching timers), they could just go ahead and take off their Soul Crystal for the run. You might turn a few heads with other players wondering what you think you're doing entering into post-endgame content as an Archer, but hey, small price to pay for being able to play the way you want to. And if somebody hurts your feelings by questioning your decisions, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from coming onto here and making a thread complaining about how others shouldn't bully you into playing your Class/Job the right way.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Actually a good tank will aggro them all properly while pulling already. Not one and then face pull the rest. Flash or overpower once is enough. Then the following can happen in no real order:

a) swiftcast stoneskin as needed
b) eye for eye as needed
c) even a regen can tick for a bit without issue
d) foe can be put up without worry

Problem is soo many tanks don't do that and just run and run until they come to rest.

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Foe Rekt has an effective range of 20 yalms, versus a tank's 15 yalm pulling ability. You're right that it shouldnt peel off aggro, as long as it's not the first thing that aggros the mob, the latter being the case if the bard is running with the tank.

Regen will also peel off if it ticks in a manner that it registers to the mob before the tank gets the initial aggro. I feel like they always take at least 2 seconds to change targets after a shift in enmnity, which causes them to lag behind getting caught by overpower, scorn or w/e.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Sorry, I never use Foes for easy stuff. WOD/CT/ST are easy mode. I like to save my Mp for the Healers. FYI: Foe's grabs hate. Most players are OVERGEARED for Pug raids.

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Battle Voice + Ballad is more than enough to get healers back up, even if you have as little as 500 mp; it'l last the entire 30 second duration. Foe only grabs hate if you're running with or ahead of the tank (or new adds spawn), otherwise it'll never peel off the tank.

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Originally Posted by Elkya95

FYI: If you're so overgeared for shit, why would you even save that mp for ballad when you can make the run go faster? Healers shouldn't even need that ballad unless they're bad.

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You never know whats going to happen in a PUG raid. Healers do go down and the BARD should help out with mage's balled. Remeber, this isnt someones RAID group, normal players make mistakes. This dosn't mean they're BAD. All in all, this comes down to how the Bard wants to use their MP. Repeat, this is the BARD's choice.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

You never know whats going to happen in a PUG raid. Healers do go down and the BARD should help out with mage's balled. Remeber, this isnt someones RAID group, normal players make mistakes. This dosn't mean they're BAD. All in all, this comes down to how the Bard wants to use their MP. Repeat, this is the BARD's choice.

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If they run out of mp before you have 500 mp back after your initial foe, they can sit on that tiny mp. And yes as I've said previously I've been that healer dying, then getting put on res duty when I got back up, no ballad. Let them complain for a bit, because believe it or not, you don't have to drop everything in the game to play a song once someone asks.

In my own defense as a BRD, I always use Foe's when it's the optimal time during a dungeon to use it. My husband plays BLM and when we run 4 man dungeons together, I always have it up for him when we AOE or for bosses. So, it's kind of ingrained in me to use Foe's. I do check the party list too if it's even viable. If I've got all melee (minus NIN), I'll do another song instead.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Don't put the bard in danger, Foe's only good when they are close to the target. They are better off reserving that MP for ballad for the healers to res all the dead players over and over. The WHM and SMN players really do appreciate the ballads.

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They don't need to be hugging the mob, they just need to be within "healing range" of the mob. If a healer can survive being near a mob so they can still heal a tank, then a BRD should be just fine (hell, Repelling Shot requires a BRD to be near the mob).

Anyway, I main Black Mage and not Bard, but when I did play Bard, I would always use Foe Requiem because party efficiency > personal DPS. In CT raids, I'll use it for trash mobs and bosses (though turn it off if another BRD is using it), in Light Party dungeons, I'll use it if the tank is doing big pulls. I'll even use Battle Voice if there's up to 10+ mobs.

In Final Coil content, I've found myself using Apocatastasis more often than before, though I reserve it only for the WAR (Imdugud's charge -that is magic damage, as Manaward mitigates it- and Phoenix's Revelation).

Didn't you hear? Foe's requiem lowers BRD dps by 50%! From 1k to 500!

Or was it 395?

*cough cough* Before I get chewed out for this, I'd like to point the reader's attention to one of today's top reddit threads...

I love the top comment to that post.

"I can confirm it to be true.
Whenever I am on BRD and pop Foe Requiem, I keep getting distracted by all the pretty fireworks from the BLMs and forget to attack."

All depend on party make up.

more Melee I do army, More Mage I do Foe's Requiem

you happened to be the only BLM and you demand foe's requiem. sad sad day.

Melee DPS shouldn't need Paeon (which reduces a BRD's overall DPS) at the start of the fight, especially if they have Invigorate (maybe 5-6 minutes in, sure). If in CT raid and one or more alliances have two or more BLM/SMN's (and a healer or two decide to DPS), then use Foe Requiem (which does NOT lower a BRD's overall DPS). It's a debuff on the mob, therefore it benefits all Casters (and DPS healers). If in a Light Party dungeon and your party consists of a BLM/NIN/SMN and DPS healer, then use Foe's.

As a bard, I feel like its best to:

-always play Swiftsong between pulls in dungeons
-play Foe Requiem for all trash fights unless the healer is not using any attack spells and there are no Ninjas, Black Mages, or Summoners in the party. (but make sure to save MP right before boss fights to have full MP for singing on bosses)
-play Army Paeon only if there are no Ninjas and circumstances are such that I have already used Invigorate and am running low on TP (very long fight or consecutive AoE fights w/o downtime between). This means any other melee dps is prbly in a similar position TP-wise.
-play Mage's Ballad only if a WHM is below ~30% MP and it looks like they will run out before the fight is over or if a Summoner just got raised and the fight will not be over soon.
-Always play Foes+Battlevoice at the beginning of boss fights unless there is a specific burn phase I think saving Battlevoice will be helpful for. (If any healer is going to need Ballad my MP will be replenished by then if I do this)

obviously, there is likely to be an exception here or there but if you follow the above I think you will be doing well as far as song management.

Bards that just let their MP go to waste by not singing make me sad. Even if you are just singing Foe for a healer that is nuking its worth it.

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Foe Requiem Price: Commendations plz. :)

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Best Reply in the entire thread xD

This thread is still up? Hm.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

snip

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While Foe doesn't add aggro, its range is greater than Shield Lob and Tomahawk. If the tank doesn't grab it, it'll run to you. Thankfully, in that case, all the tank has to do is touch the mob and its on them. A Foe Requiem pull is an inconvenience if anything. Another thing which I stupidly neglected to mention is that playing Foe Requiem while mobs are still being pulled wastes MP before everyone starts to nuke everything. The best time to play Foe Requiem during a big pull is when you know the tank is going to stop and group up all the trash real soon.

Lol ...cant believe this thread even exist and is being discuss.

Its common sense to use skills of a class you currently playing. o___o

If I play bard on 24player raids, Im looking at the 3 teams to check how many magic dps's are around.
Even its just one, I play foe song on every fight! <.<

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

....
Its common sense to use skills of a class you currently playing. o___o

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

Foe Requiem

Reduces all enemy magic resistances of all enemies by 10%.
MP is drained while singing.
Effect is lost if targets move out of hearing distance, and ends upon reuse.
Cannot be used with other songs.

Well Let's be real here. The Song helps but is not as great as most people think it is. If you read the description it says: Reduces all enemy magic resistances.
What does this means? It means that the enemy is less likely to resist a magic spell being cast upon him, so its more likely that does max damage. So in other words Foe Requiem does NOT grants an extra 10% damage as most people think. This is just an increase chance to do max damage. You can do max damage without Foe Requiem but its a bit harder.

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Yeah.... common sense is not so common

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

If I play bard on 24player raids, Im looking at the 3 teams to check how many magic dps's are around.
Even its just one, I play foe song on every fight! <.<

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Ideally, you should play Foe Requiem even if the only casters in the group are the healers in case they assist with DPS. If they do not assist with DPS, it's a waste of a BRD's MP which would be better spent on Army's Paeon for physical DPS AoEs (gotta keep pushing them out if there's still lots of mobs alive), or Mage's Ballad for when a healer or SMN is revived.

But yeah, common sense is a lost concept to many in this day and age...

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Originally Posted by myahele

Yeah.... common sense is not so common

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Last I checked, resistances in this game is a flat damage reduction toward the attack in question, (like defense), not a chance to reduce damage taken (in the sense of parry/block)

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Ideally, you should play Foe Requiem even if the only casters in the group are the healers in case they assist with DPS. If they do not assist with DPS, it's a waste of a BRD's MP which would be better spent on Army's Paeon for physical DPS AoEs (gotta keep pushing them out if there's still lots of mobs alive), or Mage's Ballad for when a healer or SMN is revived.

But yeah, common sense is a lost concept to many in this day and age...

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^This. If a healer is not willing to dps, why is the party callin out the bard for not playing Foes Requim LOL. Besides the healers who are on this forum and claim they dps to help the group. How many other healers out there are doing the same? pretty there is alot more of the safe healers than the dps healers.

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Originally Posted by ExiaQuanta

But a bard who sings a song a hundred percent of the time is ALSO a bad bard. Why? Cause if its not foes than they are nerfing their damage by 20% unnecessary. And even then why play foes when there is no cast dps. Its more proper to say a bard who doesnt sing during the appropriate situation is a bad bard.

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ill just repost what i said in the earlier pages

Have been in ST runs with say 3 or 4 other Bards, none would sing except me. Thing is i guess they are trying to stroke their epeen like some would say but i still do more damage then those so called Bards even with having Ballad up, lol.
Usually if i am the only Bard and have casters, or dps such as Nin + sch i play FR for say half mana and then turn it off just in case need Mage's ballad for healers. Which fyi for some of you who do not know, Ninja's benefit from Foe as well. And yes healers benefit greatly, Holy, Aero, dots from sch, etc.
Same goes if the party is comprimised mostly of non magical dps, although most groups do not need Army's P, if ever one of them dies and are rezed they be out of tp so i help out there.
Bards who never play a single song are just bad at the class