Stoneskin II

Tbh, you SCHs are already using half of your cross class skills slots on good skills from WHMs: protect, SS and ( especially ) Cleric stance.

Now WHMs only get meh things like eye for an eye and virus from SCH... The trade is not even fair to begin with. So why should you get all of our "best" skills without giving anything in return ?

As i said few pages ago, even if SS2 is a QOL change, ill give you my SS2 in exchange of a decent SCH crossclass skill usable in battle, in exchange of all the cross class skills usable in battle you already use from us.

You're talking bout fairness, so give us a nerfed succor, adlo or something and ill gladly lend you whatever Qol skill such as SS2 we have and will get in the future.

You cant pop out one day and request such thing as a new WHM cross class and ignore what i said at the beginning of my post.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Tbh, you SCHs are already using half of your cross class skills slots on good skills from WHMs: protect, SS and ( especially ) Cleric stance.

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Remember when SCH didn't have access to Cleric Stance? All you saw was bitching about "we need this skill too" and SE finally caved. It's no different now. If SCH had access to Stoneskin II, you might as well give WHM access to Aetherflow. I mean, it's a fair trade right?. A skill for a skill. In fact, let's give both jobs access to all skills in each others' lists and completely remove any identity they each have.

IMO SS2 is more than QoL, that's why it is a new Lv50 spell and not cross-classable.
Swiftcast SS2 between pulls is so fun, I just treat it as another spell, and in fact, it is another spell. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Velox

Remember when SCH didn't have access to Cleric Stance? All you saw was bitching about "we need this skill too" and SE finally caved.It's no different now.

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It is. Cleric stance is infinitely more useful than SS2 and usable in battle. It can also help pulling extra DPS in fights requiring heavy DPS checks thus preventing potentials wipes or just phasing an encounter for a faster kill. So SCH begging for it made much more sense than begging for SS2 which will likely wears off within the 1st minute a battle starts and then become useless as long as you're fighting.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Please let Paladin have Stoneskin II too then ^^" Not like we have many choices of cross-class skills anyway, I'd take it!

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Healers can keep SS2, I sure as hell ain't making my SCH any lazier than they are! I get so pissed at SCHs that don't even DPS on easy-50 dungeons... and the ones that don't SS1... and the ones that don't even Prot...

Most people that don't wait for stoneskin, will start a fight and make stoneskin II useless anyhow, so SCH not missing much.

Hopefully in 3.0 schs will give back all of our cc skills as the trade between healers is kinda unfair lol. Since yoshi will probs rework a lot of things so it'll make sense i guess.
But all i know is that keep ur filthy hands off of my ss2 schs! Or you can give us awtherflow in exchange cuz thatd be nice :3

wow there's a lot of bitter WHMs in this thread.

Or rather who have completely missed the entire point of SS2 as literally just a convenience skill to speed up things because that's the only time you can use it so why make instances where two scholars are the healers/solo scholar not have that convenience if they have access to stoneskin? Saying "Oh but we want Aetherflow in return" is absurd because you're asking for a massively game changing skill in return for about 6-18 seconds of time saved via a button that's literally useless in combat.

I've got 0 issue with my new hella-nice stoneskin-the-party button being cross-classable and some of the arguments I've heard about it are absolutely asinine.

If Stoneskin weren't already available to Scholar yeah I could see the argument. If SS2 were at all capable of influencing combat, yeah, I could see it.

But literally the only thing SCHs not having SS2 does to the game is causing them to have to spend several more seconds Stoneskinning pre-combat when a WHM isn't around - the exact situation SS2 was created to fix.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Saying "Oh but we want Aetherflow in return" is absurd because you're asking for a massively game changing skill in return for about 6-18 seconds of time saved via a button that's literally useless in combat.

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I certainly wouldn't mind a 20% MP restoration skill outside of combat before pulls as a WHM. The times where we've wiped and I finish buffing for the next attempt and I'm still at 3k MP.

Why are WHM against giving SS2 to Sch?

I heal both as a whm and as a sch and i don't want to side with anybody but i seriously don't understand what's the problem if sch gained access to ss2. Whm barriers are still more powerful and i think any sch would leave the honor of buffing full parties to whm. Plus, since you unlock Sch at lvl30 and are given access to a new job skill every 5levels, i think it was unavoidable that they would "borrow" a few class skills from the only healer class we have in the game. To me this new spell was just a nice QoL and i fail at seeing this unfairness ..

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

I certainly wouldn't mind a 20% MP restoration skill outside of combat before pulls as a WHM. The times where we've wiped and I finish buffing for the next attempt and I'm still at 3k MP.

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Not gonna lie I'd like that too.

But what is being asked for - a skill specifically for outside-battle MP restoration - is a different thing than just slapping Aetherflow into a crossclass skill
(That said I think almost every caster would enjoy having skills or traits that speed up out-of-combat MP restoration - see also cooldown resets for every class ever.)

I think...before asking for SS2, Arcanists in general should request instant pet summoning skills outside of combat :)
"Silly you, just swift cast summon your pet!!"
Yeah...no, I'll rather keep the swiftcast for Shadow Flare the moment the battle starts thank you very much.

Stoneskin is a cross class for White Mages.

At this point in time, only class skills can be cross class. No Job skills, so SSII can't be cross classed.

If it's any consolation, the other SCH and the tank can help in Stoneskinning the party.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

You're talking bout fairness, so give us a nerfed succor, adlo or something and ill gladly lend you whatever Qol skill such as SS2 we have and will get in the future.

You cant pop out one day and request such thing as a new WHM cross class and ignore what i said at the beginning of my post.

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Lol asking for a job based skill in place of a non-combatant skill is a tad illogical. Here's the thing:
SCH SS=10%
WHM SS=18%

SCH Protect= Physical Def
WHM Protect=Physical and Magic Defense

SCH Eye for Eye=shorter recast
WHM Eye for Eye=longer recast

SCH/WHM Aero=Same

SCH Virus= STR/DEX/INT/MND reduction
WHM Virus=STR/DEX reduction

SCH/WHM Cleric Stance=same

Honestly, Cleric stance should be just like Cure/Physick, SCH should just have it as their own ability because without Cleric stance there is a clear imbalance over the potency of the job because then WHM would just have a clear advantage with being able to heal and dish out dmg as well.

Quite honestly I see a fair 2/2 tradeoff, you won't be hating Virus if you're in a party with 2 WHM, you won't be hating Eye for Eye cause quite honestly there is no reason to hate it, it's the same exact effect as SCH.

If anything SCH is hindered because it has so many CC it can set

WHM has Holy so that's their AOE
SCH need blizzard II to do something similar to a pure dmg AOE because Bane is limited to how many you can target with it

WHM has the perfect 5 skills to set and not have to worry

SCH has 7 two of which could be put aside when a WHM is in the party Protect and SS.

For SCH Protect and SS are necessary evils for SCH in order to remain equivalent in dmg mitigation potency. While yes we have Aldoquium and Succor you have Regen and the ability for your cures to combo into stronger forms.

Our cures are Physick, Aldoquium, Succor and Lustrate, while I will admit Lustrate is a more flexible cure

Physick 400 potency
Aldoquium 300 potency + dmg shield
Succor 150 potency AOE + dmg shield
Lustrate 25% of max HP 1 aetherflow charge
Embrace 300 potency

So in essence SCH has a 700 potency cure

WHM has

Regen 150 potency cure overtime for 21 seconds aka each tick is one Succor without the dmg shield 7 Succors for the cost of a regen while yes the tradeoff is that it targets one target when it comes to AOE WHM is king as well

Benediction Full cure on one target 5 mind cooldown, admittedly yes Lustrates 3 potential uses every 1 min is nice because it's also instant case it is a far tradeoff compared to how flexible a WHM heals can be

Divine Seal heal magic potency +30% for 15 seconds aka more control over how powerful their cures can be

Presence of Mind control over how fast they can cure in times of need

Cure 400 potency

Cure II 650 potency (free if Cure combo executes)

Medica 300 potency AOE

Cure III 550 potency AOE (guaranteed crit is Cure II combo goes off)

Medica II 200 potency AOE + 100 potency regen 15 seconds.

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SCH's Succor again is 150 AOE potency with puts up a barrier comparable to amount cured aka 150 potency cure. So can call Succor 300 potency

Medica II potency is 700 potency in essence that is AOE

Regen potency in essence is 1050 potency if the math in my head is right

Aldoquium is 600 potency in essence, Cure II stronger by 650 lol.

Whispering Dawn is 700 potency in essence for the total 21 seconds but can only be used every minute.

The regens that WHM can do can be used any time the single target Regen that has a potency of 1050 overtime and the Medica II which has a base cure of 200 potency and then total of 500 potency for those 15 seconds, so it's pretty much Whispering Dawn that you can use anytime and it saves you the trouble of two ticks and you have a means to control the crit rate of it via Cure II.

Fey illumination is an AOE that can add to your divine seal for a total of 50 potency increase, by itself it only offers 20% AOE effect and WHM can give themselves 30%.

I just do think it's a bit hasty to say that WHM gives more to SCH cause quite honestly SCH's support is more giving than WHM's is, the Fey illumination or using Fey Glow which is 30% but WHM can use Presence of Mind to boost their own spell speed granted for only 15 seconds.

Even though a WHM may give us more CC wise, we give back just as much through out pets AOE effects. Plus there is also ShadowFlare which slows the target aka reduces dmg dealt and acts as a dmg mitigation that supports both healers in the party.

Stoneskin isn't your native ability so you don't get traits for it. Simple as that.

you SCH can't have everything WHM have. see what SCH gave WHM in return?

Physick (Cure clone that we don't need)

Virus (a joke skill for cross-class)

Eye for an Eye (not really that great)

SCH's base job, ACN is not a healer so it doesn't give WHM any good healing cross-class ability. then we have Swiftcast, Surecast, and Blizzard II from Thaumaturge. they're all useful for WHM.

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Originally Posted by Airget

/snip

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You missed out the mitigation of Sacred Soil and pet heal buffs of Rouse. Both useful.

Also Lustrate has 6 potential uses if you go in with aetherflow already at 3 stacks.

Main a Scholar, used to main a White Mage.
IMO, no, Scholars do not need that SSII.
Scholar's stoneskin shields for only 10%, succor can cover more.
I do not see any fight that requires a scholar to stoneskin + succor before the fight starts.

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Originally Posted by RaquelleAvarosa

Main a Scholar, used to main a White Mage.
IMO, no, Scholars do not need that SSII.
Scholar's stoneskin shields for only 10%, succor can cover more.
I do not see any fight that requires a scholar to stoneskin + succor before the fight starts.

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Succor covers more only if it crits. Either way Stoneskin is the better choice before a fight because it lasts longer than Succor.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Eye for an Eye (not really that great)

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what I don't even

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Originally Posted by Alkar

Succor covers more only if it crits. Either way Stoneskin is the better choice before a fight because it lasts longer than Succor.

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How long can you see your stoneskin last before everyone gets slapped by an AoE?
I don't know how much your healing potency is, but my succor covers for 600+ without crit. Most players are sitting at 6k+ HP as of now.

^well, the ideal would be Stoneskin+Succor...

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Originally Posted by Mirakell

...people seems even more impatient when awaiting stone skin casts -.-

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Duties/CT/ST: Just SS the tanks. All the others have to learn don't eat the mechanics.

Raids: when people don't understand the difference between WHM ans SCH and everything, who cares, you have most likely joined a wipe feast party.

Problem solved.

So long as WHMs get to use Succor, fine! I mean...SCH already get to use Stoneskin as it is via cross-class afterall.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

So long as WHMs get to use Succor, fine! I mean...SCH already get to use Stoneskin as it is via cross-class afterall.

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...78/273/e11.gif

Ahh, why are people seeming to be against Scholars having a quality of life change as well as Whms?
Before pulls - even if there is two scholars - you usually cast stoneskin on everyone. Sure, it's only 10% for us, but ss + succor is a nice damage migration... it's only a quality of life change we're asking for.

People saying that whm's should have succor then are just not understanding what is being asked here.

I gave up reading comments past page 6 because of shear volume of whining SCHs.
Though my faith in the community was restored when the "are you serious? :/" comments got ALL of the likes.

SSII has the long cast to stop shielding in-between pulls.
SSII has the high cost to reduce swiftcasting in-between pulls, forcing a trade between an extra Holy in a speedrun.
I think this skill is balanced.

I main both healers, and I thought this QoL implementation was moronic from day one.
PANDER US MORE!
SS the main tank and get your ass in gear.
2s faster than SSII, and saves my Swiftcast for first pull Holy/Cure II.

In raid content: Oh wow, I saved myself 1 Medica. If you're fretting over 300mp, you're not ready to clear that content anyway.

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Originally Posted by RaquelleAvarosa

How long can you see your stoneskin last before everyone gets slapped by an AoE?
I don't know how much your healing potency is, but my succor covers for 600+ without crit. Most players are sitting at 6k+ HP as of now.

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597 healing potency and it's not even 500 without crit. And surely Stoneskin will get to the AoE, Succor likely drops before it even hits. And, again, they stack.

If you want..you can have stoneskin II..it's not really used that much by me. Half the time during normal dungeon runs people are kept up on it no problem through the duration. CT/ST? Waiting for everyone to gather I'll get it off sometimes but then you got someone who just pulls, player who sits with another team I end up using solo stoneskin anyways on some people. Even in dungeons they end up running away or theres that one guy who is "Viewing Cutscene" taking a bit too long where it's just easier to either hit SS2 everyone then use a single on him or using single target is such second nature to me that I just use it.

Then there's the tank who sees me casting doesn't want to wait, casts his on himself and runs off missing mine..not as big of a QoL change as I thought it would be.

Lol at the white mages that want succor. Are you dumb?

Having a quality of life feature for both that does not affect anything in combat would be great. I can't believe how horrible some of these white mages are. I play both and would welcome this. Selfish effing white mages.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Then you have a rubbish heal skill. My Succor recovers around 900-1k each time

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I call MAJOR BS on this. I'm i116 with full heal gears and the only times I see succor hit 900-1k is when it's buffed with things like fey illumination and mantra. It normally only heals 500 non crit and 750 critted for me. And did you miss me and MANY OTHER scholars saying "SUCCOR SHIELDS DO NOT GET DOUBLED WHEN CRITTED".

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I play both and would welcome this. Selfish effing white mages.

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So do I, and realistically I would NEVER use a Stoneskin II on Scholar. It's a meaningless waste of MP. It's too expensive for its damage mitigation, and there's literally no content which requires you to stoneskin anyone except the tank, unless it's a raid in which case you want a WHM's stronger version anyway.

I think it's more selfish to covet a skill another job has and complain that you don't have it. What's next? Fairies for White Mage too?

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

So do I, and realistically I would NEVER use a Stoneskin II on Scholar. It's a meaningless waste of MP. It's too expensive for its damage mitigation, and there's literally no content which requires you to stoneskin anyone except the tank, unless it's a raid in which case you want a WHM's stronger version anyway.

I think it's more selfish to covet a skill another job has and complain that you don't have it. What's next? Fairies for White Mage too?

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How can you use "waste of MP" as an argument when Stoneskin II is only usable out of combat? o_O

It's a QoL improvement, period. All the WHM not wanting their so precious tool given to SCH are just salty because they would like to be the only healers in the game ever.

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

I call MAJOR BS on this

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Yeah, my bad. I was referring to Adlo, not Succor. Point is, it's still a stronger version of Stoneskin in the long run and heals at the same time. Not sure why people are complaining about not having Stoneskin when Scholar basically has a better tool in their arsenal.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

How can you use "waste of MP" as an argument when Stoneskin II is only usable out of combat? o_O

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Would you prefer the term, "waste of time"? "Waste of effort"? It's effect is negligible in the long run in either case, so casting it on the party isn't worthwhile. I only ever stoneskin the tank in parties on Scholar as anything else isn't worth it. Cheaper just to cast the heals.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I think it's more selfish to covet a skill another job has and complain that you don't have it. What's next? Fairies for White Mage too?

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Sure if all the fairies do is float around and look pretty.

We are asking for a Quality of Life change - the same that whm's got - for a skill that is cross class - that you will use when pugging and happen to get a scholar as your other healer!

Why are whm's seeming to think we're wanting all their skills @_@

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Yeah, my bad. I was referring to Adlo, not Succor. Point is, it's still a stronger version of Stoneskin in the long run and heals at the same time. Not sure why people are complaining about not having Stoneskin when Scholar basically has a better tool in their arsenal.

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Except no scholar is going to adlo every member of their party one by one because by the time you get to the bottom of your 8 man party list, your first adlo has either already worn off or is mere seconds away from wearing off.

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

Except no scholar is going to adlo every member of their party one by one because by the time you get to the bottom of your 8 man party list, your first adlo has either already worn off or is mere seconds away from wearing off.

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You're so right. And you know why? Because it's unnecessary. You only cast it on non-tanks when they can benefit from the healing bonus as well. So, do explain why we need a 10% HP stoneskin effect for a paltry 500hp when even Succor can provide that much, and be usable in-combat.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Would you prefer the term, "waste of time"? "Waste of effort"? It's effect is negligible in the long run in either case, so casting it on the party isn't worthwhile. I only ever stoneskin the tank in parties on Scholar as anything else isn't worth it. Cheaper just to cast the heals.

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I would prefer any term that is correct in a given circumstance.

This QoL spell would only be useful whenever a WHM is not around in a dungeon / raid. That's all. Of course, if a WHM is present, HE is the one who is going to do SS, not che SCH - that is pretty obvious - so don't worry, no one wants to steal your precious "Stoneskinning role".

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You're so right. And you know why? Because it's unnecessary. You only cast it on non-tanks when they can benefit from the healing bonus as well. So, do explain why we need a 10% HP stoneskin effect for a paltry 500hp when even Succor can provide that much, and be usable in-combat.

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We don't "need" it, as WHM did not "need" it in the strict sense of the word. For the Xth time, it's a QoL thing for both WHM and SCH. It's not a "need" thing. it's no different than the change they made for food to last thru a wipe.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You're so right. And you know why? Because it's unnecessary. You only cast it on non-tanks when they can benefit from the healing bonus as well. So, do explain why we need a 10% HP stoneskin effect for a paltry 500hp when even Succor can provide that much, and be usable in-combat.

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How hard is it to understand that SS means in an instance, it buys me a little bit of extra DPS time before I have to actually heal that DPS that just took damage. I am confused as to your reluctance to give us this QUALITY OF LIFE change. Can you please give me a good sound reason that doesn't include "BECAUSE IT MAKES MY WHM FEEL SPESHUL". Wouldn't it, in fact, benefit the whole party without affecting the dynamics between classes when a WHM isn't present? Or can you not imagine a scenario where there isn't a WHM in the party?

Edit: Am I just banging my head against a wall here? How hard is QUALITY OF LIFE change to understand? It's not game breaking. It doesn't affect the balance between classes at all. I challenge any WHM to tell me how is does break this balance. So far I haven't seen any justification of this.