Dungeons and ANGRY PEOPLE !

Not at all. when I say I think someone is lying is is related to how ridiculous their claim is. The more ridiculous the more likely it is a lie. There is no way anyone who leveled to 50 multiple times on DoW/DoM classes has never come across a single rude or angry veteran player and only come across rude or angry new players aka on their first class, first character unless they have never ran dungeons with any non-new players on all those multiple 1-50 classes or the only ones they ran dungeons with is their friends.

I'm still wondering if your checked the search info of those new players you found or just assumed based on their level. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it's rather odd that someone completely new to the game would believe they know everything about their class without ever reaching 50 on any class

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

No your logic is broken. You don't understand logic.

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I was referring specifically to the attempt to equate Elim with a man defending misogyny.

I'll be the first to admit that my memory is faulty. But you also don't see me weighing in either way as to which group has a higher number or percentage of a-holes.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

I'm still wondering if your checked the search info of those new players you found or just assumed based on their level. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it's rather odd that someone completely new to the game would believe they know everything about their class without ever reaching 50 on any class

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I think they are just making things up at this stage but it is possible they never checked or don't understand that a new player is someone on their first class, first character and not someone who just happens to be leveling a new class type on a preexisting high level alternative classed character.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I was referring specifically to the attempt to equate Elim with a man defending misogyny.

I'll be the first to admit that my memory is faulty. But you also don't see me weighing in either way as to which group has a higher number or percentage of a-holes.

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The example is sound in the context of what I was referring to which is the type of behavior I gave an example of earlier.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Not at all. when I say I think someone is lying is is related to how ridiculous their claim is. The more ridiculous the more likely it is a lie. There is no way anyone who leveled to 50 multiple times on DoW/DoM classes has never come across a single rude or angry veteran player and only come across rude or angry new players aka players on their first class on their first character unless they have never ran dungeons with any non-new players on all those multiple 1-50 classes or the only ones they ran dungeons with is their friends.

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Just so ya know, to try to show you how wrong your assumption that everyones experience has to be the same as yours is flawed, a fair amount of people got all level 50's without touching a dungeon outside their story quest. Dungeons weren't cool when the game came out since FATE grinding gave a lot more experience. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the long time vets experiences are a lot different than yours.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

... But you also don't see me weighing in either way as to which group has a higher number or percentage of a-holes.

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So probably wouldn't weigh on Ray Rice case either, because Janay hit Ray too. You people get tricked by the false equivalences so easily, that you don't know the flaw in that logic.

It is a irrefutable fact that speed-runner are unhappy with the new players. They've made enough posts on this forums to make that abundantly clear. And there are plenty posts of newer players complaining about being vote kick abuse by those speed runners for reasons ranging from watching cutscenes to being undergeared a bit. The problem is the speed runners not spending time to communicate and coordinate, because by definition it is not a speed run anymore if you have to do that.

Now the controversy has moved to the hunt, because those same speed runners are trolling hunts, because they don't want to communicate, coordinate, and they just want to early fast pull the marks. New content same problem from the same trolls.

Remember the week Syrcus tower was released, every ST run, somebody was raging at someone else about how even kindergarteners !@#%% knew that fire and ice made water. if you get to that point, by definition everyone is if you get to that point, unless you count the 1st-timers to those as newbies. It is way more common to see impatient experienced players cussing out the player that are just relatively newer than them.

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Originally Posted by Elim

Just so ya know, to try to show you how wrong your assumption that everyones experience has to be the same as yours is flawed, a fair amount of people got all level 50's without touching a dungeon outside their story quest. Dungeons weren't cool when the game came out since FATE grinding gave a lot more experience. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the long time vets experiences are a lot different than yours.

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It does not make much difference, though I gave the example of leveling 1-50...that was my example but your claim is you have never met a angry or rude veteran player in dungeons, only rude or angry new players. The fact by saying only ever is the newbies in dungeons you have run it exceeds just the leveling 1-50 range into the post-storyline, post-level 50 gear, seals, materials, tomes and vanity item grinds/dungeon runs. Your claim extends into that realm too which makes it even more likely a lie.

I leveled my first 50 back in Nov-Dec.I received none of the vitriol people are saying -must- have happened. I did Brayflox HM runs all the time in DF. In all the time there, I had only 1 tank be an ass and we shut the man up fast. Yes, healers have been slow even in first proclaimed, "speed run ok" runs. Healer slowed to open a door etc. I even had a healer go "shit. I think I just heard gunshots" All of us were just cool about it.

Yes a lot of people can be dicks, but seriously don't over generalize and say that every person who levels in low levels, first 50 or last to 50, is going to experience a shitty time when they say they're new. I never had an issue in the low level dungeons. Even when I sucked at Ifrit HM and got hit by charges and plumes for my first relic (which took 3 weeks to obtain, no trials roulette etc). I never once had a person in my own party who is new or when I was new either slow the dungeon run down or cause a wipe or even say they're new cause the group to vote abandon.

What has caused vote abandon? Three-four wipes to the same boss for the same reasons even though multiple times it's stated how to clear things efficiently. Or CT wipes.

Edit: When I got to 50, my computer had a stick of faulty ram that I didn't know about until I finished the main story. That meant I had a lot of crashes of the game. I never got booted or had people leave.
They certainly could have left when it happened 1-4 times a run.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

It does not make much difference, though I gave the example of leveling 1-50...your claim is you have never met a angry or rude veteran player in dungeons, only rude or angry new players. The fact by saying only ever is the newbies in dungeons you have run it exceeds just the leveling 1-50 range into the post storyline, post-level 50 gear, seals, materials, tomes and vanity item grinds/dungeon runs. Your claim extends into that realm too which makes it even more likely a lie.

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I said in low level dungeons. :) You seem to keep forgetting that this is what the conversation is about.

Show me where I said that I only experience rude newbies in lv 50 dungeons as well. Because I didn't. Anywhere. I may have vaguely said "dungeons" without adding "low level" to it, following my original post, but I thought you had the ability to follow my line of thought in that regards.

You can't enter a level 50 dungeon until you GET TO level 50. So levelling from 1-50 doesn't imply level 50 dungeons too, just FYI, in case that confused you somehow.

I've encountered rude people in endgame dungeons more than anything pre-50. On the other hand, I usually don't give out advice in low levels so I've never gotten the "don't tell me how to play" response.

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Originally Posted by Elim

I said in low level dungeons. :) You seem to keep forgetting that this is what the conversation is about.
....

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So you want to use weasel word qualifications now? BTW the OP is at level 45, Stone Vigil, Dzemael, Aurum Vale, are not exactly face roll friendly low level Sastasha anymore.

I've seen people rage quit on those. My first crap experience was with a speed runner trying to speed run WP. The healer back then like myself was iLevel45+ or so SCH. Good luck speed running it. Then the tank rage quit on us. Nobody is a newbie at that point, but they all think they can dictate how everyone else is supposed to play. And ny resistance must be because the other newbie (i.e. me and healer) doesn't like advice.

Funny thing was the advice was to get geared. Well what the heck were we in WP for...

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

So you want to use weasel word qualifications now? BTW the OP is at level 45, Stone Vigil, Dzemael, Aurum Vale, are not exactly face roll friendly low level Sastasha anymore.

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Though there are still the first timers going through those, like me, I'm level 50 but still haven't done any of these, except the Vigil.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

So you want to use weasel word qualifications now?

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Nah. I want you guys to actually read my posts and reply to what they say, not what you add to them for...flare?...fun?...togetmad? XD

I got to give it to you guys though, it is fun. I'm stuck at a coffee shop for couple more hours. lol

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Though there are still the first timers going through those, like me, I'm level 50 but still haven't done any of these, except the Vigil.

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The reason for that is because the other two are not required by the main story but are done through the relic quests via requirement of grand company etc.

I do feel bad but I understand the frustration. While leveling my SCH, I had queued in progress right before the first boss in Aurum Vale. The pulls were slow. The paladin was a level 50 (level synced to level 49, had gallant surcoat, etc) most likely trying to get his relic. At coincounter he didn't say anything. He got hit by 90% of the swipes and the only got out of 2 swings. We asked him to shield bash the glower and also avoid turning the boss around by running really far behind the boss so coincounter would turn around and cleave both him and a DRG. He kept getting hit by all of them even though after the first and second wipe we explained exactly all the mechanics and how to deal with them. He also ran in twice before I could put up protect and succor the group before his pull. The 4th wipe we had, there was a vote abandon.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

The reason for that is because the other two are not required by the main story but are done through the relic quests via requirement of grand company etc.

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Yeah I have the Darkhold and Castum Meridianum still up on my screen to do, but just can't commit to the time to do them. Then still have to do The Praetorium to finish out the main quest.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Yeah I have the Darkhold and Castum Meridianum still up on my screen to do, but just can't commit to the time to do them. Then still have to do The Praetorium to finish out the main quest.

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If you are in a FC, make sure you can get at least 2 tanks or 2 healers from your FC to do Castrum or Praetorium with you, with the understanding that they will let you watch the cutscenes. If you don't you will miss large portions of the story, because not all of them can be seen in the inn, and it just doesn't feel right in the inn either, totally messes up the continuity. If you only got 1 tank and 1 healer, the speed runners will single tank and single heal and speed run the whole thing and force you to skip cutscenes and sometime even miss the boss if you are lost. So the only way to guarantee this doesn't happen to you, is have 2 tanks or 2 healers, and then you can DF the rest. And hopefully they don't try to vote kick abuse on you or your FC tanks or healers.

No FC here, though I must get about 5 invites every time I play, and the occasional "why aren't you in a FC"? I just reply " because I hate people" and they leave me alone. I would like to start my own, call it None of the Above, or Did I Ask for Fries?

I feel sorry for new people trying to get into an MMO that is more than just a few months old. It's so easy to skate to end game these days, that just months after release there's already a large portion of the population who have a "been there, done that" attitude to much of the content. These people were able to run through the game and experience content when everyone was new, and making mistakes and being imperfect was more acceptable. Less pressure, more fun.

Enter new generations of players months later, years later, who have to experience a trial by fire as the sole newbie while grouping for much of the game. It can be tough to build and maintain guilds for new players once the game has lost its "new" feel, so making acquaintances isn't always easy, either.

The sad thing is, you just kinda have to deal with the rudeness and the anger if/when you experience it. Try to run things as much as you can with any friends you've made.

I like to hit people when they talk to me.

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Originally Posted by Kosme

I like to hit people when they talk to me.

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I remember you now!!!

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

dont play important role in a dungeon is my advice (no tank or healer) and if you dont see your hate on a boss then you gotta re think if it is your gear or your rotation is bad & fix it (usually it is bad rotation)

edit: I checked your character...gear update is need. your left side is ok ok, but your right side....are you lazy ? Now I can understand why ppl rage and angry at you

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^ Well she's an example of what this whole topic is about. Way to go lol.

Also, every role is important...what?
Don't play Tanks and healers you mean? We're in desperate need of tanks and healers.
The DPS outweighs the others roles, hence why DPS wait 50 years for a que.

You could give OP some really nice advice, but right now you seem mean about it...so yeaah...

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

dont play important role in a dungeon is my advice (no tank or healer) and if you dont see your hate on a boss then you gotta re think if it is your gear or your rotation is bad & fix it (usually it is bad rotation)

edit: I checked your character...gear update is need. your left side is ok ok, but your right side....are you lazy ? Now I can understand why ppl rage and angry at you

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You seem to be over estimating the influence of accessories. They are insignificant compared to that of your left side and pale in comparison dramatically compared to that of your weapon.

As OP said, he hasn't been playing much longer than most and already it is clear that it is thoughts and expectations like this that lead to unnecessary aggression. I also chcked OP's character and it is quite sufficient for dungeon runs. However, I could see that due to OP wearing a spiritbonding ring that players may be lead to believe that OP is doing dungeon runs simply to spiritbond and not so much for progression.

See this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-cutscenes-AFK

Plenty of proof of experienced vets that should know better behaving badly, abusing vote kick.

More evidence:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...to-new-players
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=speed+runners
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ying-the-story
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...lesome-players
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-in-dungeons.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rming-service.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ened-in-Duty-!

And then you have experience players that like to dictate how other people should play:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Lazy-and-Bad.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rs-are-rising!

I'm sure there is more to be found, but the evidence is overwhelming that the "experienced player" is causing drama and issue and being mean to each other and to the newer players than anything else.

I think this thread is a perfect example of why it is detrimental to be able to level so quickly. I mean, I get that most MMO players have played lots of games by now and don't have the time or patience for leveling. But leveling should be a learning process. And I think that process is diminished by being able to level so quickly and effortlessly.

People are able to level so quickly that new players don't have time to even notice they are missing something and then get berated by other players for it.

For example, it would probably be a good idea for classes to stop advancing their level until they do the class/job quests. Because those quests, at least one of them anyway, forces you to level the cross class before you can advance your job quests.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

...
People are able to level so quickly that new players don't have time to even notice they are missing something and then get berated by other players for it.

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Leveling quick is not the problem. People being mean to other people that is the problem. Slowing down leveling won't help people learn group play any faster, actually it will make slower. And in the process if people were to berate others, they would be doing it there too. People behaving badly needs to be discouraged. The number of experienced player only increases over time and the choice/opportunity to be nice or mean to new player is going to be going to be in the hands of the experienced player 99% of the time, why is it so hard for the experienced player choose to be nice all the time?

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Leveling quick is not the problem. People being mean to other people that is the problem. Slowing down leveling won't help people learn group play any faster, actually it will make slower. And in the process if people were to berate others, they would be doing it there too. People behaving badly needs to be discouraged. The number of experienced player only increases over time and the choice/opportunity to be nice or mean to new player is going to be going to be in the hands of the experienced player 99% of the time, why is it so hard for the experienced player choose to be nice all the time?

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Because some people suck, that's why. It's easy to be mean, especially thanks to DF.
To answer a question in a previous post, the reason why no one asks questions because you're either going to get kicked, or get the heat from it.
Don't ask, mess up, they'll know it's your first time and then they'll get pissy.
You're damned if you do, damned if you don't when it comes down to questions.
It's a shame too. People are so mean on this game some times people are scared to get the boot.
I try to help whenever I can. I'm also guilty of not asking things at times, because of said above.
I don't wanna hear it from people.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

So probably wouldn't weigh on Ray Rice case either, because Janay hit Ray too. You people get tricked by the false equivalences so easily, that you don't know the flaw in that logic.

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I don't even know what you're talking about. >_>

I assume I should know these people? Are they famous or something?

As for what appears to be a blatant attempt to get me to defend spousal abuse, I'll simply say that the entire thing is effed up, regardless of any statistics. It shouldn't happen, full stop.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

It is a irrefutable fact that speed-runner are unhappy with the new players.

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Yep, and I won't try to refute it. Well, that certain speed-runners are unhappy, anyway. I mean, there is that small demographic that's happy either way. Yes, you have the people abusing vote-kick against people watching cutscenes, but you also have healers standing outside boss rooms to wait for them even though they'd also be fine with a speed run.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

It is way more common to see impatient experienced players cussing out the player that are just relatively newer than them.

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Anecdotally, I'll agree. I'll even go so far as to say that I wouldn't be surprised if it remains true when properly researched. Of course, you'll never get a full data set of all players, and even if you do you're limited to what information is available in the game, which isn't everything. You wouldn't have anything to go off of that isn't in the chat window, which is missing a lot of data, basically.

Then again, there are still jerks on both sides, and probably always will be. Best you can really do is report them as appropriate and move on.

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Leveling quick is not the problem. People being mean to other people that is the problem. Slowing down leveling won't help people learn group play any faster, actually it will make slower. And in the process if people were to berate others, they would be doing it there too. People behaving badly needs to be discouraged. The number of experienced player only increases over time and the choice/opportunity to be nice or mean to new player is going to be going to be in the hands of the experienced player 99% of the time, why is it so hard for the experienced player choose to be nice all the time?

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I agree that people don't need to be mean. But the OP clearly didn't even know that he had inadequate gear and could use cross-class abilities. This game does a pretty good job pointing players in the right direction. Was just thinking that maybe there could be another way to clue new players about those things.

Plus, if leveling wasn't so quick, new players would have the time to see that they could upgrade/update their characters. It takes no time at all to get from 20 to 40. And at 20, you might be wearing level 16 gear and not even realize it at level 40. I have run into people that had that happen. Got all excited they could do a dungeon before realizing they could use a gear check. IDK. Whatever.

DON'T BE MEAN PEEPS!

As per my other post, I absolutely hate it when vets are mean to new players. However, I will add this caveat that I have learned after one of the 'speed runners' asked me not to kick them during a run // he said that even though I could get into instances or roulettes instantly, he had waited 20 mins to get into one. Out of the 2.5 hours or so this player had to play each night, he spent 20 mins of it in queue and the dungeon looked to end up taking 60 mins or more. He reasoned that he has a very short amount of time to play and, as a main dps, wanted to try to maximize this free time in order to get the most out of it as he could. I sympathize with this, as I often feel the same way if I'm on my bard.

I think it important that we see both sides of the equation. No one has a right to be outright mean and rude to ANYONE, regardless of new or old, while at the same time new players may try to at least try their best to equip themselves or educate themselves, if possible, before joining DF queues so as to not end up the 'weak link'. Not saying they need to Youtube it up, but a lil research goes a long way ^_^v

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Originally Posted by Maero

seen far too many ilv 100-110 players that do not know how to play their class (tanks mainly) and then rage because they lost agro.

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As an tank this makes me always sad panda, because hands down tanking is the easiest role in this game. Anyway back on topic, if you are new to whole MMO genre i highly suggest checking class forums to get some sort of understanding for your chosen role/job, thats what i always do even before installing whole game so i know how skills, gearing etc works.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

Was just thinking that maybe there could be another way to clue new players about those things.

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An easy way is to actually have a working equipment compare for all stats on the tooltip instead of only for WDMG,Delay,AAspeed,DEF/MDEF.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

An easy way is to actually have a working equipment compare for all stats on the tooltip instead of only for WDMG,Delay,AAspeed,DEF/MDEF.

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^ Yes, yes.

I dont have a problem with people being new, but I don't give a pass with being w/ just being non-observant. If it's the first 3 dungeons, then whatever may be new and havent bought accessories or got any type of aetherial drops. But if you almost level 50 and you dont know that accessories give you stats...come on now. At the very least it's a RPG; One should at least look into (via the numerous available ways whether in game or out) what kind of stats are provided for a slot at some point early on in the process so u at least are aware.

I don't rage against people unless im raged against. I dont give people advice much since usually it''s met with something akin to "i know my class (aka shut up)", "dont tell me how to play" etc. So i just enter, do the duty, exit most times. I can joke around, say hello nice to meet you, but i very rarely will stop in the middle of df to attempt a lecture on how to play a class and/or how to take advantage of the systems of FFXIV. Last time i remember trying was on a 45 blm who spammed f3 b3 (>.>) a while ago. That type of lecture is better given by someone on the same server, a friend, a nice fc mate, or a nice random player in shout. I honestly dont have the patience (or dont always care enough) to do that in a random DF, since preferably i would want to see the results of coaching someone on a class/job.

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Originally Posted by Elim

Honestly, the only angry people I see in low level dungeons are the newbies themselves.

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The last time I tried giving a new Tank advice he started a vote to kick me. But then I started a vote to kick him and he was gone. Since then I realized that people's intentions might not translate well into text, and might be misconstrued. What you may say might mean something else to another person.

Giving someone too much advice might be seen as being bossy, which is why I understand you not giving someone advice unless they ask. I have seen jerkish new players and jerkish veterns, but even though the ratio might be 1: 10, all the jerks combined still make up a small % of the playerbase.

thanks for all the kind words of encouragement from those offering it and being helpful. To those that perfectly demonstrate my point, Im sorry Ive obviously failed miserably at this game .. I should be ashamed of myself and go jump off a cliff so not to effect your levelling skills with my disgusting lack of ringage.

last night I became a Bard, I filled out those jewellery slots and did a few more quests to get a few more higher quality clothing... Once I get a bit more cash Im going to invest in some better jewellery and/or Im going to pay more attention to those items when they come up in dungeons and quests as optional items.

oh and I've started levelling up my lancer too.

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Originally Posted by majorj0nny

thanks for all the kind words of encouragement in this thread. to those that perfectly demonstrate my point, Im sorry Ive obviously failed miserably at this game .. I should be ashamed of myself and go jump off a cliff so not to effect your levelling skills with my disgusting lack of ringage.

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Understandable mistakes if it\\'s your first time. I wouldn\\'t let it get you down (and ignore the arguments that detailed the thread). I heard you were on Cerberus, I am too. I don\\'t mind helping in dungeons etc, I can help as a tank, heals or dps. Don\\'t have a bard though so I can\\'t give you much help on that front.

I actually have a "willing to help" in my search info but no one has taken me up on that offer yet ._.

I wouldn\\'t worry about being shouted at, last night I got called a useless OT in ifrit hard so I queued again and showed those eruptions who\\'s boss....but maybe went a little too crazy with the stuns...

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Originally Posted by majorj0nny

thanks for all the kind words of encouragement in this thread. to those that perfectly demonstrate my point, Im sorry Ive obviously failed miserably at this game .. I should be ashamed of myself and go jump off a cliff so not to effect your levelling skills with my disgusting lack of ringage.

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Can I have your stuff before you go off the cliff?

It always amazes how fired up people can get over the game, especially towards new people who are trying but don't know all the ins and outs. But thats the wonderful thing of human nature, the diversity of attitudes, can't please em all. Oh well, I say stick to em, next time go into a dungeon wearing miner gear.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

....

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I dont know what else have been written in this thread, because im to "LAZY" too read all of it, but i just have to tell you you are talking complete bullshit.
The right side doesnt do shit before you are level 50, you could even do everything fine with the right side beeing empty, if you are average in playing your class.
I have done all the content with every role, and i barely update my right side(only buying accs at like lvl 20),before i hit lvl50, except when i got something from dungeons.
Healing Easy, Tanking without getting ridiculous damage, and mostly being the dps pulling out the most damage, maybe you want to learn more about the game, before telling others how to manage their characters.

Dont even bother looking at my character, because its not the one shown on this forum.

Dont get me wrong, i dont want to say accs arent worth updating, just that its not really necessary, to blow gil on insane priced low lvl accs.

Hey OP, I'm on Cerberus too and toss my name among the list of people that will help you. I'm happy to run and explain any dungeon or fight you need to do. I'm also happy to craft some accessories for you if you need them or answer any questions.

I had a similar experience when I started. I got to Bray as a CNJ not knowing anything about White Mage. That went over as well as you can imagine. I got told I was useless this run would be terrible and asked why I even bother to play if I'm so stupid.
All of that before we even left the blue circle. Need less to say I bailed on the run.
I didn't see the quest for WM as I assumed I would need to be level 35 to continue my CNJ quests. All of the quests so far had been every 5 levels.

Just some friendly advise think before you speak to someone like that. We are all real people. It takes no extra effort to be kind.
This kind of abuse can have a real effect on people.

Because of what was said to me and how I was treated, I'm afraid to jump into a DF.
Im level 44 and haven't even attempted Garuda NM.
I did Dzemael Darkhold yesterday no problem, "even got 2 player coms" but it doesn't change the fact that I still think every time I do join one that if I'm not perfect I might get cussed out again.
That being said I have met more kind and helpful people than not, but it only takes 1 bad apple to leave a lasting impression.