Should we be limited to only one craft class?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

again you have no indication that this is true. You didn't take a survey and you have no data to present, therefore, your statement is not true.

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ok then were is your proof? no what as this is off topic you win.. go back on topic please

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Originally Posted by DNO

ok then were is your proof? no what as this is off topic you win.. go back on topic please

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where is my proof that your statement is false? lol you have yet to provide any data and I highly doubt that you took a survey to see how most people made most of their gil in XI. THAT is my proof. Your lack of evidence is my evidence.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

where is my proof that your statement is false? lol you have yet to provide any data and I highly doubt that you took a survey to see how most people made most of their gil in XI. THAT is my proof. Your lack of evidence is my evidence.

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dude S.T.A.Y. O.N. T.O.P.I.C.

thanks

and two people making money in two different ways is hardly "evidence" for either of us. Your point is weak on this and i will admit so is mine. however this is not the topic so post on topic

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Originally Posted by DNO

dude S.T.A.Y. O.N. T.O.P.I.C.

thanks

and two people making money in two different ways is hardly "evidence" for either of us. Your point is weak on this and i will admit so is mine. however this is not the topic so post on topic

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You've obviously never been in an actual debate, but ok, I'll keep to your wishes and stay on topic.

Your OP is extremely misleading and one sided. You are saying, basically, "Side with me or pay extra money" when there will most likely be a completely different option.

Your OP and almost every comment you have made is based purely on speculation regarding a topic that the devs THINK they MIGHT add in the far future so why are you freaking out?

IF this is implemented, it most likely won't be the way that you say. It won't be "you get 1 r50 craft per character." It will probably be "you can have all r50s on 1 character, but 1 craft, OF YOUR CHOOSING *big ticket here* will have a specialization unlike the others, but all of your crafts will still remain useful as you don't have to have max level, stats and abilities to make money, help the economy or assist your LS in making gear/leveling up."

You're still freaking out on a subject that is, yet again, based on pure speculation and you need to chill out, relax and think about this.

I think this thread needs to be closed because, not only is the OP extremely misleading and one sided, it is, again, based on pure speculation and is entirely pointless as the devs don't even know if they are going to attempt a system like this.

Did I mention that the OP is misleading and based on pure speculation?

How's that for staying on topic?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

You've obviously never been in an actual debate, but ok, I'll keep to your wishes and stay on topic.

Your OP is extremely misleading and one sided. You are saying, basically, "Side with me or pay extra money" when there will most likely be a completely different option.

Your OP and almost every comment you have made is based purely on speculation regarding a topic that the devs THINK they MIGHT add in the far future so why are you freaking out?

IF this is implemented, it most likely won't be the way that you say. It won't be "you get 1 r50 craft per character." It will probably be "you can have all r50s on 1 character, but 1 craft, OF YOUR CHOOSING *big ticket here* will have a specialization unlike the others, but all of your crafts will still remain useful as you don't have to have max level, stats and abilities to make money, help the economy or assist your LS in making gear/leveling up."

You're still freaking out on a subject that is, yet again, based on pure speculation and you need to chill out, relax and think about this.

I think this thread needs to be closed because, not only is the OP extremely misleading and one sided, it is, again, based on pure speculation and is entirely pointless as the devs don't even know if they are going to attempt a system like this.

Did I mention that the OP is misleading and based on pure speculation?

How's that for staying on topic?

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Agreed. Whatever happened to those SE polls?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

You've obviously never been in an actual debate, but ok, I'll keep to your wishes and stay on topic.

Your OP is extremely misleading and one sided. You are saying, basically, "Side with me or pay extra money" when there will most likely be a completely different option.

Your OP and almost every comment you have made is based purely on speculation regarding a topic that the devs THINK they MIGHT add in the far future so why are you freaking out?

IF this is implemented, it most likely won't be the way that you say. It won't be "you get 1 r50 craft per character." It will probably be "you can have all r50s on 1 character, but 1 craft, OF YOUR CHOOSING *big ticket here* will have a specialization unlike the others, but all of your crafts will still remain useful as you don't have to have max level, stats and abilities to make money, help the economy or assist your LS in making gear/leveling up."

You're still freaking out on a subject that is, yet again, based on pure speculation and you need to chill out, relax and think about this.

I think this thread needs to be closed because, not only is the OP extremely misleading and one sided, it is, again, based on pure speculation and is entirely pointless as the devs don't even know if they are going to attempt a system like this.

Did I mention that the OP is misleading and based on pure speculation?

How's that for staying on topic?

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i have been in a debate but going in circles is not something i want.

This is the topic: if SE makes you 1 craft per character will you like it or dislike it.
Of course we do not know what it is because its not in the game yet that goes without saying. BUT i have more proof then you as i have a link. the link wants some sort of LIMIT. of course i am guessing the limit based on what what they have done in the last game. you can talk about the topic or make you own.

so what you wrote is completely not on my topic but its close... keep trying.

The thread with translations from the magazine already states that they intend to restrict it to 1 crafting class.

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Originally Posted by DNO

god *bangs head on desk*

lets have another mini pull please. If you rank a job to 50 and are locked out of some abilites that make you a master is that limiting the job or is that NOT limiting the job?

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Well if you want to feed the conjecture beast, at least try and tie it to something also called master, which is already implemented... like...

You have Attained Goldsmith Rank 100. (arbitrary max level)
You have learned the ability Quality Shiny Goodness II.
A glow emanates from your Linkpearl
"Hello, is this Dno Sensei? I have a serious question for you, in regards to your talents as a Goldsmith. We are in need of a master craftsman. The rewards you can reap in committing to our guild can be vast, but the dedication needed for this role should not be taken lightly. If you choose to dedicate your time to this guild, please visit at your earliest convenience."

New quest added: To become a master Goldsmith
Reward ability: Master Goldsmith Spell. (Able to boost Goldsmith crafting ability for any player, without needing to visit the guild. Buff is latent [always on] for yourself. Only one craft master ability can be retained at any time, but can be replaced by another guild, if prerequisites have been met.)
New tier of R100 recipes accessable, which require master buff to attempt.

That doesn't mean you will be restricted to leveling up only one class though, it merely states you can only master one, in my eyes that means I can only obtain one Job title for DoH (ie: Blacksmith → Airship Hull Builder). I'd still be able to level all my DoH classes to 50.

That is my speculation, as once again I will repeat that Square-Enix themselves stated they would not force/mandate the restriction of players who had something already leveled, which means its IMPOSSIBLE (and very unfair for new players) for them to only let you level up one class, and yes that statement was made with Yoshi-P's team, not Tanaka. I believe it was made right after that massive poll they did in ?December?, somewhere around that time.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

That doesn't mean you will be restricted to leveling up only one class though, it merely states you can only master one, in my eyes that means I can only obtain one Job title for DoH (ie: Blacksmith → Airship Hull Builder). I'd still be able to level all my DoH classes to 50.

That is my speculation, as once again I will repeat that Square-Enix themselves stated they would not force/mandate the restriction of players who had something already leveled, which means its IMPOSSIBLE (and very unfair for new players) for them to only let you level up one class, and yes that statement was made with Yoshi-P's team, not Tanaka. I believe it was made right after that massive poll they did in ?December?, somewhere around that time.

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spoken with truth

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Well if you want to feed the conjecture beast, at least try and tie it to something also called master, which is already implemented... like...

You have Attained Goldsmith Rank 100. (arbitrary max level)
You have learned the ability Quality Shiny Goodness II.
A glow emanates from your Linkpearl
"Hello, is this Dno Sensei? I have a serious question for you, in regards to your talents as a Goldsmith. We are in need of a master craftsman. The rewards you can reap in committing to our guild can be vast, but the dedication needed for this role should not be taken lightly. If you choose to dedicate your time to this guild, please visit at your earliest convenience."

New quest added: To become a master Goldsmith
Reward ability: Master Goldsmith Spell. (Able to boost Goldsmith crafting ability for any player, without needing to visit the guild. Buff is latent [always on] for yourself. Only one craft master ability can be retained at any time, but can be replaced by another guild, if prerequisites have been met.)
New tier of R100 recipes accessable, which require master buff to attempt.

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this makes sense...but it makes too much sense for the OP to understand because it isn't "limiting" all other classes....

They really need to remove the ability for people to add tags to threads not started by themselves. Give people a way to troll and well, you know...

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Originally Posted by Dubont

this makes sense...but it makes too much sense for the OP to understand because it isn't "limiting" all other classes....

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Well yes and no. No, in that you can switch mastery buffs once qualified by visiting the guild, and yes in that Ishgard will soon be the main economy hub, and travel isnt always very convenient.

Plus, what about the up and coming "crafting synergy" (combining)? How do you expect 3 high rank crafters from various cities to merge talents with the best results?

My idea could hold merit in this scenario... Whether SE bites of course is another question altogether.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

this makes sense...but it makes too much sense for the OP to understand because it isn't "limiting" all other classes....

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damn your crazy lol its ok im done with you.

facts #1.

people who are not super into crafting wont give a S*** about this.

Fact #2

This will only apply when the leve cap is over 50 , so current equipment /leves in crafts wont be altered.

Fact #3

If system is changed and you want multiple crafts maxed you will have to pay extra and reroll sub crafts.

speculation #1

FFXI system will be used.

Speculation #2

A "Specialization" system will be used(witch in the end is the same thin).

So in conclusion , in the end only the hardcore crafters will be bothered about this.It wont affect the economy at all becouse , if you take the time to max more than 1 craft, you will more likely pay for a mule for craft #2.

the only real question here is , are this people in particular willing to pay extra to have more than 1 craft maxed when the current system allows you to do that w-o paying extra?

I know were i stand with this.but apparently people can not see the real reason behind doing this.so is pointless to keep telling you why this is bad to players.



edit: and what is super disgusting is the very same "casuals" , "no time sink" and "i want to be entitled to same content /power as hardcore gamers" players are the same ones who defend giving into 1 class per char.While one of the mayor time sink defense members is completely against the change.

Oh the irony.This community never stop to amuse me.here comes the complainers about the complainers without a clue what the hell is being discussed about.

edit#2: since people want to go into semantics, max in 1 craft means you can do anything that craft can do and have achieved the maximum upgrades that class in question can get.Can be rank, specializations, upgrades, skill books, whatever.

People will complain about anything...

/facepalm

I believe your Fact #2 is opinion or speculation as well, unless you can provide a quote from the horse's mouth themselves they said that.

Also Fact #3 should be changed to as to not read "maxed" but rather "specialized" because same for above reason as of this moment in factual knowledge--unless there has been more news not yet talked about openly, or massively--we can still level up all the DoH classes to the "max" ranks/levels.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

I believe your Fact #2 is opinion or speculation as well, unless you can provide a quote from the horse's mouth themselves they said that.

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it is been said 100 times current player achievements wont be altered in any way , so i dont really feel like taking quote after quote to expose were exactly this have been said.Also , i believe in the interview this is planned for far future , once cap is raised.Is completely impossible to roll back people from level 50 , is not going to happen. Was the first thin yoshida said when he got in command.So unless you think the new mega boss is a a big fake, there wont be any roll backs.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Also Fact #3 should be changed to as to not read "maxed" but rather "specialized" because same for above reason as of this moment in factual knowledge--unless there has been more news not yet talked about openly, or massively--we can still level up all the DoH classes to the "max" ranks/levels.

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is the same shit.maxed specialized MAXIMUM POWER AVAILABLE.i think is clear enough.But ill dig and edit it again since it bothers you.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Well yes and no. No, in that you can switch mastery buffs once qualified by visiting the guild, and yes in that Ishgard will soon be the main economy hub, and travel isnt always very convenient.

Plus, what about the up and coming "crafting synergy" (combining)? How do you expect 3 high rank crafters from various cities to merge talents with the best results?

My idea could hold merit in this scenario... Whether SE bites of course is another question altogether.

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And that's fine, as long as we're not permanently restricted to one class without any option of ever changing. One of the first problems that occurred to me was within linkshells. What if said linkshell loses a member and along with them their only master in a certain craft. If we're permanently stuck then no one can just pick up the slack and address the need, they'd have to create an entirely new character or have someone who hasn't picked a mastery to do it.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

is the same shit.maxed specialized MAXIMUM POWER AVAILABLE.i think is clear enough.But ill dig and edit it again since it bothers you.

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thats why i stopped people think not doing everything in a class you capped is not limiting it lol... crazy i know.

I never said there would be, and I don't think there ever will. I am merely stating that leveling a DoH class =/= specializing in a DoH class.

For example we can use real life degrees, my degree for example is: Bachelor in the Fine Arts, but that alone encompasses ALL the Fine Arts (music, acting, painting, sculpting, etc) In my case I've specialized in Acting.

Same basic principle would apply to this, HOWEVER you would only be able to specialize ONE of the DoH classes, unlike real life were I could go back to school and get another degree in whatever and specialize that degree into 'abcxyz'.

So I said that Fact 2 is not really fact because they never said specifically that you won't be able to level classes past 50, we might be able to get them all to 100 but again, would only be able to specialize into one of them.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

I never said there would be, and I don't think there ever will. I am merely stating that leveling a DoH class =/= specializing in a DoH class.

For example we can use real life degrees, my degree for example is: Bachelor in the Fine Arts, but that alone encompasses ALL the Fine Arts (music, acting, painting, sculpting, etc) In my case I've specialized in Acting.

Same basic principle would apply to this, HOWEVER you would only be able to specialize ONE of the DoH classes, unlike real life were I could go back to school and get another degree in whatever and specialize that degree into 'abcxyz'.

So I said that Fact 2 is not really fact because they never said specifically that you won't be able to level classes past 50, we might be able to get them all to 100 but again, would only be able to specialize into one of them.

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You know you are changing around very simple thins into a hell of a hard to understand theory ?.I cant be clearer maxed is maxed, you touched the roof there is nothing more in that direction .

Stop comparing crafting to something else, in crafting , you will always need to/want to be at max, becouse thats were the shinnies are at, while you might think in the way there you can get some goodies, is not even 5% of what you can at the rooftop.it is reality in the MMo´s crafting.

Making a storm in a glass of water.IT IS in fact as simple as it is exposed.

There is most definitely a BIG difference between maximum and specialized/specialization and here are the definitions just in case you don't believe me.

Specialize

Maximum

And just to note, I'm not trying to argue with anyone in the thread, I'm merely trying to enlighten.

Edit: Then you are misusing the words I am afraid. For example, you seem to be a nice person in general but at the moment you are specialized into being angry with me, you are taking that anger to the maximum. Hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

There is most definitely a BIG difference between maximum and specialized/specialization and here are the definitions just in case you don't believe me.

Specialize

Maximum

And just to note, I'm not trying to argue with anyone in the thread, I'm merely trying to enlighten.

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no you are using semantics to make an argument were there is none.Do you even know we are speaking about a mmo here ?.

Yes in fact I am using Semantics: (the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development) to show you your word choice is misleading and in fact skews fact with falsehood.

Therefore your Fact #2 and #3 are not fact at all, they are merely speculations.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Yes in fact I am using Semantics: (the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development) to show you your word choice is misleading and in fact skews fact with falsehood.

Therefore your Fact #2 and #3 are not fact at all, they are merely speculations.

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Ok Mr i use semantics becouse i dont have anythin better to add to the discussion.

let me spell it out for you clear and nicely.

Goldsmith specialization#1 necklager.---> reach max into this specialization YOU ARE MAXED .
Goldsmith specialization#2 ringmaker---> reach max into this specialization YOU ARE MAXED .

is that really so hard to understand ?.please tell me how is that different . getting all abilities into that speculation of specializations is not being maxed ? seriously ,,

You are simply ignoring what i have been saying to debate about your idea (and i like your idea btw) of how specialization should work.Im sorry your wrong. facts are facts. Max is max.In terms of abilities/skills/levels/whatever you want to call it.
Stop making shit up.

The moment you used semantics to make my point less or more valid is the moment i stopped taking you seriously, i dont play that way.

Edit:So let me reword it again in a nicer way,
if i specialize in 1 wing of my craft 1 "specialization" per char means i can not undertake different specialization, witch means i have to make a mule and reroll then take a different path, leading to the same dead end.You are specialized into that 1 class/job/specialization whatever you wanna call it, if you wish to do somethin else , you have to reroll.hence for you have maxed that class in question.you cant upgrade it anymore.

i was imagining if this "specialization" thing proved to carry over Dow and Dom to and they couldnt change that wing of choice. I could see so much rage incoming. XD.

Caddy remarks will get you no where in life, but that is besides the point, the point is and I quote your post that brought this up

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Originally Posted by Zkieve Shadowfang

Fact #2

This will only apply when the leve cap is over 50 , so current equipment /leves in crafts wont be altered.

Fact #3

If system is changed and you want multiple crafts maxed you will have to pay extra and reroll sub crafts.

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You make the assumption in Fact #3 that we would have to level up multiple characters to get all the crafting classes to the maximum ranks, there is no denying this you said it above. I disagree we don't know if that is the fact yet, who is to say that specialization is ranks 51+? No one, as this is not a known fact; specialization could mean Disciples of the Hand will be getting Jobs similar to that of the Disciples of War and Magic. Which are basically titles that restrict you from doing certain things but in turn give you stuff to specialize in.

In the case of the DoH the only thing you will be restricted from doing is being specialized in multiple crafts (so using an example that uses the same craft only skews the idea more) If you wish to truly understand the system that I'm speculating then look no further than the Advanced Jobs thread I've created, in it there is a portion that discusses both the Disciples of the Land and the Hand.

Also, I provided you with the definition of semantics to shed some light on you that its not necessarily a derogatory term, while Political Semantics usually is; again this is off the topic.

Furthermore, you could even say that the specialization won't restrict you from what you already know, to use your example, if you become a Pendant Maker or Necklacer what ever you wish to name it, you won't lose the knowledge to forge rings or bracers or wands, you'd merely gain MORE knowledge on how to make even better necklaces. That is why I don't think people are seeing this the right way, if you can only craft the item through specialization then you are not losing any past crafting knowledge, you're making a choice.

I really hope that helps, if not then I feel I have done all I can to enlighten you in the matter and route they will more than likely take on this endeavor of 'specialization'.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Caddy remarks will get you no where in life, but that is besides the point, the point is and I quote your post that brought this up



You make the assumption in Fact #3 that we would have to level up multiple characters to get all the crafting classes to the maximum ranks, there is no denying this you said it above. I disagree we don't know if that is the fact yet, who is to say that specialization is ranks 51+? No one, as this is not a known fact; specialization could mean Disciples of the Hand will be getting Jobs similar to that of the Disciples of War and Magic. Which are basically titles that restrict you from doing certain things but in turn give you stuff to specialize in.

In the case of the DoH the only thing you will be restricted from doing is being specialized in multiple crafts (so using an example that uses the same craft only skews the idea more) If you wish to truly understand the system that I'm speculating then look no further than the Advanced Jobs thread I've created, in it there is a portion that discusses both the Disciples of the Land and the Hand.

Also, I provided you with the definition of semantics to shed some light on you that its not necessarily a derogatory term, while Political Semantics usually is; again this is off the topic.

Furthermore, you could even say that the specialization won't restrict you from what you already know, to use your example, if you become a Pendant Maker or Necklacer what ever you wish to name it, you won't lose the knowledge to forge rings or bracers or wands, you'd merely gain MORE knowledge on how to make even better necklaces. That is why I don't think people are seeing this the right way, if you can only craft the item through specialization then you are not losing any past crafting knowledge, you're making a choice.

I really hope that helps, if not then I feel I have done all I can to enlighten you in the matter and route they will more than likely take on this endeavor of 'specialization'.

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You know you are completely ignoring my comments and going on and on about your idea of how the class system should be done.

I think you are a nice guy to but you just don't seem to get it.I cant explained it any better than i have so i rest my case.

At any rate all we know is complete speculation anyway, like you've stated coming from Square-Enix that this is something for much later down the road, after jobs and Ishgard and Chocobos and all that. A lot could change, and probably will change from here until there.

My main concern what to not confuse Maxed level with specialized (because being specialized doesn't always mean you are max); yes it's word play but with all the changes and stuff going around I feel its at its utmost importance to make sure we are all conveying information correctly and without confusion. ;)

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

At any rate all we know is complete speculation anyway, like you've stated coming from Square-Enix that this is something for much later down the road, after jobs and Ishgard and Chocobos and all that. A lot could change, and probably will change from here until there.

My main concern what to not confuse Maxed level with specialized (because being specialized doesn't always mean you are max); yes it's word play but with all the changes and stuff going around I feel its at its utmost importance to make sure we are all conveying information correctly and without confusion. ;)

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Lets bring out what i said again since you want to go into quotes and you said she said B*******.


Fact #2

---------------This will only apply when the leve cap is over 50 , so current equipment /leves in crafts wont be altered------------------------
Dear Kenneth,

I received your air mail, all the way from California. Your letter made me extremely happy and I would like to thank you for encouraging the development team in our efforts.

You expressed concern over whether one of the four keywords I introduced at the beginning of the year, namely reboot, meant that we would be wiping character data. I apologize for any confusion that this choice of terminology may have caused, but rest assured that character data will not be wiped.

This decision was in no way influenced by your letter, but is something that I have been adamant about from the onset. As a personal policy, I would simply never allow it.

Our characters are us, complex collections of memories and emotions, and nobody has the right to take them away from us.

I will be more careful in the future when choosing my words, and regret any anxiety I may have caused among players fearing for their characters' safety.

Please tell everyone on the Kashuan World that Yoshi-P says hello!

I'm already looking forward to writing my next letter! Until then!

Naoki Yoshida, FINAL FANTASY XIV Producer/Director

First letter of the producerhence max level/power/whatever is not 50 becouse there wont be rollbacks for people already with over2 crafts at 50.
1+2=3 and thats how i came out with this fact.Dont need to be a genius to end up with this conclusion.






Fact #3

--------------If system is changed and you want multiple crafts maxed you will have to pay extra and reroll sub crafts.------------------


In future crafter will be restricted/allowed to master 1 class only
famitsu Vol1,

there you go.if you still think this 2 are not facts, well good day to you.

ooo does it really say that? hmmmmm mab ill stop ranking crafts then lol. wow im not happy but on well its not DoW or DoM.... (i hope)....

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

In future crafter will be restricted/allowed to master 1 class only

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Any meaning behind 'class mastery' is PURE speculation at this point. NO ONE HAS FACTS ABOUT IT.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

Anything meaning behind 'class mastery' is PURE speculation at this point. NO ONE HAS FACTS ABOUT IT.

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hahah keep on with that lol i am sure you will start to believe it if you keep saying it to yourself lol.

I sure hope they dont limit any of it lol

My point exactly, I've also seen it translated as "restricted to specialize one class only" which is meaning something ENTIRELY different. Hence, your facts are speculation, that is FACT. I'm done with this thread though, because I won't allow myself to get tired out over what's fact and what is not.

Wow SE better look at all the likes because people are CLEARLY one sided.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

My point exactly, I've also seen it translated as "restricted to specialize one class only" which is meaning something ENTIRELY different. Hence, your facts are speculation, that is FACT. I'm done with this thread though, because I won't allow myself to get tired out over what's fact and what is not.

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Nice getaway, you wanted prove, i gave it to you.
point you are restricted to one and only one.
if you want more than 1 you go re-reroll.
Can you rly still dont understand this lol.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

Any meaning behind 'class mastery' is PURE speculation at this point. NO ONE HAS FACTS ABOUT IT.

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is why i said

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speculation #1

FFXI system will be used.

Speculation #2

A "Specialization" system will be used(witch in the end is the same thin).

does not change the fact you can only master 1, meaning you need to reroll to master a different one.

No you gave me semantics.

"Facts" are always subject to individual interpretation. Just because one follows from the other does not make it indisputable. Honestly, all we can gather is that this so-called "mastery" of a craft is not limited to rank 50.