Tanks are so mainstream. (Ramuh extreme done without tanks)

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

The only difference is that cheesing Ramuh leaves you with one mechanic to deal with and enrage got rid of all of them, not much of a difference.

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One mechanic? Have you even done the fight o.O????

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Originally Posted by Alish

One mechanic? Have you even done the fight o.O????

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Yes, we server firsted it on Hyperion four hours after patch went up. You know what I told my guys when we tried this cheese method? Just eat all the balls. Why? Because it completely got rid of the communication required to actually clear this fight and turned it into a training grounds for T8 ballistic missles.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

Yes, we server firsted it on Hyperion four hours after patch went up. You know what I told my guys when we tried this cheese method? Just eat all the balls. Why? Because it completely got rid of the communication required to actually clear this fight and turned it into a training grounds for T8 ballistic missles.

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Communication isn't very important regardless now because of the # priority strategy people are using now.

Fixed.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2267528

So in this instance, it was not "working as intended" it is safe to say.

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Originally Posted by Wade

Fixed.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2267528

So in this instance, it was not "working as intended" it is safe to say.

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Thank Based god, and to the person above you who thinks this fight didn't take communication , you're completely wrong. Until we initially developed the priority system, and even after that, TS was abuzz with the voice of our two shot callers as we constantly delegated people to different tasks, and communication with your tank during the last phase where having enough orbs around is imperative.

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Originally Posted by NOC_EU

The following issues have been addressed:
- In The Striking Tree (Hard) and The Striking Tree (Extreme) the damage taken by pets was abnormally low.

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So, SE has spoken.

In before Ramuh extreme still done without tanks, WHM tanking. If you think about it, when mechanics are handled properly, MT never receives hits exceeding 3k and rarely receives big hits back to back. Single tanking (real tank) it has been discussed before, sprint for balls when buff drops or just deck SCH for lustrates while having perma red 3 stack.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

The only difference is that cheesing Ramuh leaves you with one mechanic to deal with and enrage got rid of all of them, not much of a difference.

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Technically three mechanics. Four if you include "SMN and Titan must NEVER EVER die." One mechanic is collecting the orbs to lower the damage from Thunderstrike (or whatever it's called. It's the AoE we use to remove Chaos). The second is Chaos/Seduce. Third is Rolling Thunder. Also, despite taking away the tank swapping mechanic, your team still requires everyone to pay attention to their surroundings (and close attention to the SMN if Chaos/Seduced), whereas Turn 2 is just LOLSPAMWEWIN.

But it seems to have not been working as intended, so meh.

I'm disappointed that SE would see fit to remove "player ingenuity" from the game this quickly. This after they left Turn 2 Enrage in the game. Titan can tank every other Trial if your group puts their mind to it, why is Ramuh special?

I find it kinda funny how Turn 2 enrage was far more effective and fight changing than Titan-egi yet they didn't change that. Weird.

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Originally Posted by niwaar

I'm disappointed that SE would see fit to remove "player ingenuity" from the game this quickly. This after they left Turn 2 Enrage in the game. Titan can tank every other Trial if your group puts their mind to it, why is Ramuh special?

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Because in the other situations, it is still ideal to have at least one of each role (healer, dps, tank), and in this case it is compelling players to run without one.

If you had put all of your time into mitigation gear, and were suddenly told you were unwelcome to do content, how would you react? Starting from scratch on a class you never intended to build up? Or simply not do the content?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

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what I'm trying to say though, is by allowing titan to tank, it removed the hard part of the orb collecting mechanic which was delegating orbs to your tanks whilst removing the excess. It turns it into , hey, everyone, just pick these orbs up, who cares who does it, and then in the last phase when rolling thunder happens, it's still not bad, because instead of everyone picking balls up, now it's one person, which honestly, isn't hard either. Compare this to the original fight wherein you have two tanks constantly eating and you may have to hold on feeding for rolling thunder, and you have a difference in complexity comparable to Sastasha to Turn 1. Any group can pick up tons of balls, which was displayed when pugs immediately clung to this strategy as a godsend as it required very little communication outside of setting up a ballistic missile esque priority system, and turning it into a game of hungry hungry hippos.

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Originally Posted by Pantz

So, SE has spoken.

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Yep, and the directo... devellopers said "The monster follow the script! You players have to follow it to!"

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Originally Posted by Kardayel

Yep, and the directo... devellopers said "The monster follow the script! You players have to follow it to!"

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More like "Whoops, how did that bug get in!"

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Originally Posted by niwaar

I'm disappointed that SE would see fit to remove "player ingenuity" from the game this quickly. This after they left Turn 2 Enrage in the game. Titan can tank every other Trial if your group puts their mind to it, why is Ramuh special?

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It was more like a mistake that Titan didn't take the 17k hits because he didn't have orbs.

While I anticipated and frankly agree with Square's decision to remove this method, I do have to give kudos to the thread originators for coming up with something unique and cool, even if it was technically circumventing some of the intended mechanics. Tanking Ramuh with Titan-egi will hopefully be always remembered, as I feel it should be, as something that was fun while it lasted.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

I find it kinda funny how Turn 2 enrage was far more effective and fight changing than Titan-egi yet they didn't change that. Weird.

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Enrage was discovered pretty late I think. My old static was already on T4 for a while when we heard of t2 enrage and we started with turn 1 months after ARR launch. This was done within 1 week of release. If this was 'discovered' near 2.4 release when shiva trials will be the cool thing to do, I wouldn't be surprised if they let it slide. It'd be like releasing a primal with echo available right from the start, instead of the next patch.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Enrage was discovered pretty late I think. My old static was already on T4 for a while when we heard of t2 enrage and we started with turn 1 months after ARR launch. This was done within 1 week of release. If this was 'discovered' near 2.4 release when shiva trials will be the cool thing to do, I wouldn't be surprised if they let it slide. It'd be like releasing a primal with echo available right from the start, instead of the next patch.

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You're right, T2 enrage was found out like, towards the end of the content cycle right before it was unlocked to pure farm status. At that point I feel like they probably thought, who cares, it's legitimately outdated at this point. The difference here is that Ramuh was released a week ago. lol.

I must say, even if I'm a bit sad about SE decision on this one (and probably caused by haters that reported it as a bug, as always) I'm very proud of our team finding about this :)

My Titan-Egi solo tanked an extreme primal like Ramuh and it got defeated for the very first ever !!! I will never forget it :p the pleasure as smn to do it was just incredible, for some days I was feeling back again the excitement you could get as smn just like you had in FFXI.

Sad fact is, we look like to be bound forever at playing the game how the developers (and mostly how the mainstream mentality of players want to see the game as it must be) in a specific way and not another.

That being said :) I will not give up on my researchs and tests about smn titan-egi tanking in the future :D And you can be sure that the results will be posted here for everyone !

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

I must say, even if I'm a bit sad about SE decision on this one (and probably caused by haters that reported it as a bug, as always) I'm very proud of our team finding about this :)

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I just want to keep your idea of SMN tanking in Ramuh EX but until SE fixed and I was saying like... Oh great I'm f**ked up with it and have to make new strategy for it... But I appreciated that you did share the good strategy to us. But yes unfournately for myself that I didn't won Ramuh EX fight... :(

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

Sad fact is, we look like to be bound forever at playing the game how the developers (and mostly how the mainstream mentality of players want to see the game as it must be) in a specific way and not another.

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If this were true they would not allow premade parties to deviate from 2/2/4 structure. If this were true it would not be permitted to use a solo-tank strat on Twintania (yes, it exists, I've been in a party or two that's employed it, though it didn't quite work out for various reasons). What happened here is a simple case of "Ramuh has no actual direct damage attacks, so Titan-egi can ignore 90% of all damage dealt by Ramuh". That's not the devs "making you play it a specific way", that's players bypassing several fight mechanics because the developers made an oversight. This is players discovering a way to entirely excise not one, but TWO entire classes from the Ramuh fight, and in doing so make it EASIER to clear. And this has happened less than a week after the implementation of the fight. You and I both know how this game is. If Square didn't patch this and FAST, it'd become just as hard to find a Ramuh EX party allowing tanks to join as it would be to find a party willing to try and deal with Allagan Rot hot potato.

I think the strat itself is cool and clever, but this should not and will not last, and you don't have a leg to stand on if you're going to claim that it's being shuttered and restrictive to not allow a strategy where the hardest non-Coil boss currently in the game can be tanked by an AI that takes 10% normal damage from EVERYTHING said boss does.

The one content where tanks didn't have the red carpet over every other role... Oh well, back to waiting for them on party finder.

Fixed... well.... time to come back to the boring script from devs... i guess they don't want us to have fun trying to do things differently

Well, it was fun while it lasted :3

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

The one content where tanks didn't have the red carpet over every other role... Oh well, back to waiting for them on party finder.

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I like how DPS and sometimes even healers are content to let us tanks take what is often the hardest and most stressful role, and the one that attracts the most flak from other players, without even thinking of deigning to do it themselves, and then moan about how we get an indirect reward for being the least populated role in the game. Fun fact: This attitude discourages players from tanking and serves only to drive up your own queue times.

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Originally Posted by Merle

Fixed... well.... time to come back to the boring script from devs... i guess they don't want us to have fun trying to do things differently

Well, it was fun while it lasted :3

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As I said above, what exactly is "clever" or "thinking outside the box" about replacing the two people who normally handle the boss with an AI script that takes ~10% of the damage the tanks normally do? And which allows you to ignore the majority of the fight's mechanics? And in the process allowing you to bring in extra DPS players and effectively buff your damage output, in a DPS check fight, by >25%? What, in short, is "fun" about kicking out the most undeservedly maligned classes in the game so they cannot participate in a piece of content on their preferred class?

Even though it only lasted a short time, I hope all the tanks that got salty over this remember how it felt the next time they want an all ranged dps party or want to exclude some other job because the strategy is easier without them.

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Originally Posted by jojober

Even though it only lasted a short time, I hope all the tanks that got salty over this remember how it felt the next time they want an all ranged dps party or want to exclude some other job because the strategy is easier without them.

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Wait, you're blaming the tanks when a PF, that can be started by anyone other than tanks mind you, wants all ranged on ifrit/garuda ex because melees can clash with HEALERS in ifrit ex when taking down nails or because melees can get hit hard by the spins and put extra stress on HEALERS?

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Originally Posted by niwaar

I'm disappointed that SE would see fit to remove "player ingenuity" from the game this quickly. This after they left Turn 2 Enrage in the game. Titan can tank every other Trial if your group puts their mind to it, why is Ramuh special?

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They never fixed player ingenuity in FFXI - The issue here was though it was removing 2 people due to the fact it took advantage of how the pet ignores quite a bit of damage - It's not like in FFXI how for example instead of a Paladin tank for Kirin you used Dancer or Blue Mage, it's more like when people used Bard to tank Kirin due to taking advantage of the enmity produced by songs which SE then fixed or using RDM or BLM due to sleep enmity gain. If it wasn't a problem they wouldn't have fixed it.


And don't say "they fixed it due to complaining" - because people have been complaining about so much with this game that has yet to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

I find it kinda funny how Turn 2 enrage was far more effective and fight changing than Titan-egi yet they didn't change that. Weird.

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Turn 2 enrage didn't remove people from the fight altogether - Also it's almost 1 year old content now.

I love that you did this (regardless of the changes now). I wanted to do an Ifrit HM way back when (I mean WAY BACK) with 6 SMN and 2 SCH for all the pets. But my server is apparently populated with people who don't want to do crazy things just to see if they can be done. Find more funny/creative/just plain cuckoo ways to clear content please. I like crazy strategies.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Wait, you're blaming the tanks when a PF, that can be started by anyone other than tanks mind you, wants all ranged on ifrit/garuda ex because melees can clash with HEALERS in ifrit ex when taking down nails or because melees can get hit hard by the spins and put extra stress on HEALERS?

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I know anyone can create a PF, but because tanks are in such short demand, they are typically (not always) the ones to drop from a party they deem not ideal - it's easy enough for them to just find another one. So yes, I do want them to remember that it's no fun being excluded because it's easier without them.

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Originally Posted by blackcitadel9

I love that you did this (regardless of the changes now). I wanted to do an Ifrit HM way back when (I mean WAY BACK) with 6 SMN and 2 SCH for all the pets. But my server is apparently populated with people who don't want to do crazy things just to see if they can be done. Find more funny/creative/just plain cuckoo ways to clear content please. I like crazy strategies.

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Done first coil with 1 WAR, 1 PLD, 4 MRDs 2xhealers. At the time was fastest t4 clear I had done XD

Wow, people. You were exploiting. Just get over yourselves. They fixed a bug that was making this 'alternate strategy' possible. It wasn't supposed to be a valid strategy; had the bug not been in the code to start with, it never would have worked and people would never have come up with it. They fixed that bug, and now you're all whining about how they're 'punishing player ingenuity.'

Did you whine at your teacher when you were caught cheating in class, too? For punishing student ingenuity?

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

This is players discovering a way to entirely excise not one, but TWO entire classes from the Ramuh fight, and in doing so make it EASIER to clear.

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It's a bug. I'm going to take them at their word and believe that there was a portion of code that was not working as intended.

Leviathan EX has also been done with 6 summoners and 2 scholars. They have done nothing to fix this. Back in 2.1, Titan EX was done with six warriors and you can't tell me that wouldn't make things easier. Hell, I've beaten garuda story, which you can't actually overgear for thanks to the level sync, with nothing BUT tanks.

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Originally Posted by Wade

Fixed.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2267528

So in this instance, it was not "working as intended" it is safe to say.

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HA. Totally called it.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Except that's not an exploit. What happened with White Mages and Titan HM was an exploit, this however is clever use of game mechanics.

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Rejoice! For the expliot has been righteously terminated.

They heard the outcry from the obsolete tanks about Egi's taking their jobs... and have rectified the situation.

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Originally Posted by Canopia

They heard the outcry from the obsolete tanks about Egi's taking their jobs... and have rectified the situation.

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You can say whatever you want, honestly, you are a summoner.
Your statement is lacking of credibility, but you wont admit it, because you are a summoner
It is an exploit, but you wont agree with it, because you are a summoner

You can say anything you want to release your anger, but you are a summoner, not S/E game designer.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

You can say whatever you want, honestly, you are a summoner.
Your statement is lacking of credibility, but you wont admit it, because you are a summoner
It is an exploit, but you wont agree with it, because you are a summoner

You can say anything you want to release your anger, but you are a summoner, not S/E game designer.

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Using the tank pet to tank is an exploit! You can't do that! All summoners should be banned for exploiting during their story quests.

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Originally Posted by Immut

Using the tank pet to tank is an exploit! You can't do that! All summoners should be banned for exploiting during their story quests.

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Please don't that, you're just making yourself look dumb with these kind of statements, comparing what titan egi is suposed to be, a supportive tank for small scale fights in survability for a summoner, to a complete fully reliable tank for every content.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

You can say whatever you want, honestly, you are a summoner.
Your statement is lacking of credibility, but you wont admit it, because you are a summoner
It is an exploit, but you wont agree with it, because you are a summoner

You can say anything you want to release your anger, but you are a summoner, not S/E game designer.

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You DO realize that rectified means made it right, don't you? Meaning, he is agreeing that there was a problem and SE fixed it.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

You can say whatever you want, honestly, you are a summoner.
Your statement is lacking of credibility, but you wont admit it, because you are a summoner
It is an exploit, but you wont agree with it, because you are a summoner

You can say anything you want to release your anger, but you are a summoner, not S/E game designer.

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I'm a tank and i agree with her, when i play my DPS i can see that many tank think they're gods (i don't see many other class left the dungeon before it even start just cause they don't like this one or the setup is not optimal). I thought the Titan-Egi strat was a good strat and a good idea. It was not a bug exploit, it was using a flagrant flaw in the system: Pet take less damages on AOE, Ramuh make only AOE attack... well, if you're basic system have a flaw, shame on you, you should have test it. The devs want people clear the game the way they decided we should do, so they changed the rules.