20% Coil Buff Not Being Implemented???

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

20% even 30% isn't going to help those who cant learn mechanics, especially with Titan. Even 100% echo wont save you if you cant dodge landslides.

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Actually with 100% if scholar can keep adlo shield up you will take 0 damage and not get knocked back by landslide

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

Because there is nothing to do in this game outside of coil right now.
If you aren't aiming to do Second Coil, what ARE you doing?

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Wow, I'm kind of ashamed you're on my server.

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Originally Posted by Zhi

Actually with 100% if scholar can keep adlo shield up you will take 0 damage and not get knocked back by landslide

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how do you know this? 0 damage does not prevent knockback.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

I think the echo should reach the stated amount simply because echo is echo. It helps people catch up. Look at titan ex. People are being left behind on it because everyone who learned titan ex just move on leaving those behind in the dust.

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I do Titan Ex when I'm bored, simply because so far it's the fight I enjoy the most. I've seen and helped training groups, DF groups, PF groups with i90 gear requirements claiming to farm, everything.

I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that Echo does not help here. You can either do it or you cannot. All Echo does is allow everyone else that can to carry those who can't.

Titan is pretty much the fight that shows the community's true colors: it's apparent that people prefer gear carried encounters than reaction based encounters. Things where upgrading your weapon or armor will grant you the "strength" to close the gap, where getting a better geared healer will patch your shortcomings as a tank or getting better geared DDs will shadow your lackluster performance.

XIV is a game that has attracted people who love numbers, formulas, parsers and predictable numerical outcomes, even if they don't realize this themselves. Titan is an encounter that cares very little about your numerical outputs (specially now with echo) and focuses on your reaction times, which are abysmal if my experience with multiple PUG groups is to be taken as example.

Twintania is in a similar position, where echo cancels out the tight numerical requirements and ends up showing the inability of the general population of players to deal with reactive mechanics.

The interesting part of all of this is that the reaction times required are really not too tight, at all. All these encounters are predictable: you know when landslide is coming, when bombs are coming, what patters of bombs will appear and in what order. You know when twintania will cast Twisters not because you see the bar but because the thing is literally on a strict timer. You know everything in advance, so you can "prepare to react". It's not twitch reactions what these encounters ask of you, just simply reactions.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

how do you know this? 0 damage does not prevent knockback.

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It does for the BLM shield. I'm unsure of adloquim/stoneskin soaked damage though.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Look at titan ex. People are being left behind on it because everyone who learned titan ex just move on leaving those behind in the dust.

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The 'people left behind' can learn the fight and clear it themselves as the rest of us did well before the echo update.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

The 'people left behind' can learn the fight and clear it themselves as the rest of us did well before the echo update.

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Be a teacher. Use that mentality. Explain to the principle and committee that the reason why 95% of your class isn't passing your curriculum is because they can learn and clear it themselves like the other 5%. They sure gonna wanna keep you around.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

The 'people left behind' can learn the fight and clear it themselves as the rest of us did well before the echo update.

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Or buy it. That's the way a lot of people went in Titan's early days.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

how do you know this? 0 damage does not prevent knockback.

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Some(probably all, but I've never paid enough attention or tested it extensively so I can't be sure) attacks with secondary effects won't proc the effect if all the damage is absorbed by Stoneskin and/or SCH shields. An easy example to watch in action are toad licks. Put up SS, let one see you, and the lick won't draw you in if you take 0 damage. A more extreme example is the vulnerability debuff caused by the nodes in Turn 2. SS+shield spam on the tank can completely prevent stacks from building.

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how do you know this? 0 damage does not prevent knockback.

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Taking 0 damage prevents most (all?) forms of status ailments that come along with the attack, and knockback is included among those.

Don't believe me? Try going up to Ifrit with a fresh Stoneskin up, and take a Vulcan Burst (low damage + knockback aoe, shouldn't take long for him to use it). Watch and be amazed as the people with intact Stoneskins are not flown backward.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Be a teacher. Use that mentality. Explain to the principle and committee that the reason why 95% of your class isn't passing your curriculum is because they can learn and clear it themselves like the other 5%. They sure gonna wanna keep you around.

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Gotta love logical fallacies.

It's easier to love camate after duty commenced vid. He's all kinds of fine.

Anyway on topic. Adding optional ways to get better gear at some point would be a better way to lower the bar for less super awesome players out there.

At least in this way the relic quest is a great option.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

how do you know this? 0 damage does not prevent knockback.

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I have once had a fresh crit adlo and with Storm's Path + Inner Beast, landslide did no damage to my warrior saving me from sliding off.

0 damage prevents knockback in Ifrit HM plenty of times.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

0 damage prevents knockback in Ifrit HM plenty of times.

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With some abilities yes 0 damage prevents knockbacks. Some other abilities do not.

The last boss in Brayflox HM for example will push you despite taking 0 damage.
Demon Wall, Landslide, and so on that have a pushback will not if you take 0 damage.

Trial and error.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

With some abilities yes 0 damage prevents knockbacks. Some other abilities do not.

Landslide

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

I have once had a fresh crit adlo and with Storm's Path + Inner Beast, landslide did no damage to my warrior saving me from sliding off.

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Hmmm, interesting.

not sure if it's the same haven't done t2 in awhile but in t2 if you stoenskin/aldo right before the stack increase since you won't take damage you won't get a stack. (could have been changed)

I feel bad... the only time devs respond to one of my posts is when I am being really bitchy. Sorry Camate <3

So they released they arn't doing it, because enough players are getting loot from t5 and they feel satisfied with the buff. Not sure where the link to that is, but it has been announced.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Be a teacher. Use that mentality. Explain to the principle and committee that the reason why 95% of your class isn't passing your curriculum is because they can learn and clear it themselves like the other 5%. They sure gonna wanna keep you around.

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Do you expect him to teach to EVERY person in the server forever and ever? Maybe stay online every day to teach to every person stuck at Titan how to MEMORIZE THE ROTATION.

Youtube exists. Videos exist. Strategies exist. This game doesn't even punish you for death.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Do you expect him to teach to EVERY person in the server forever and ever? Maybe stay online every day to teach to every person stuck at Titan how to MEMORIZE THE ROTATION.

Youtube exists. Videos exist. Strategies exist. This game doesn't even punish you for death.

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Crutch players: Require memorizing a rotation.
Good players: Understand the mechanics.
Best players: Remember and understand both.

Most players in this game fall under the crutch category sadly.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

So they released they arn't doing it, because enough players are getting loot from t5 and they feel satisfied with the buff. Not sure where the link to that is, but it has been announced.

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Yes, the dev announced it on THIS thread. :D

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

how do you know this? 0 damage does not prevent knockback.

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As many others have already stated, you are wrong. Preventing damage of knock-back attacks do prevent the knockback.

Examples: Demon Wall, Titan, Ifrit, Ultima

+1 for no more Echo buff!

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

T6-8 are all easier then t5 was before the echo. And in some ways they are still easier.

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I don't think a single person I know that's done T7 I know would agree with that. I've only watched a video but hell, definitely not easier than T5...but I guess that would also depend on how hard you find T5...I guess.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

T6-8 are all easier then t5 was before the echo. And in some ways they are still easier.

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LOL what? All they did was increase time it took for twister to cast. All that changed in the strategy was how you dodged twister, that's it. And if you're talking pre echo, than even more LOL. T7 is called the static killer for a reason. And even T6 is way more difficult than T5 ever was, people just derp and can't dodge dive bombs, or run in a straight line to dodge twisters.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

LOL what? All they did was increase time it took for twister to cast. All that changed in the strategy was how you dodged twister, that's it. And if you're talking pre echo, than even more LOL. T7 is called the static killer for a reason. And even T6 is way more difficult than T5 ever was, people just derp and can't dodge dive bombs, or run in a straight line to dodge twisters.

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or run towards another person >.< Seen that too many times. You either eat their twister with them or trip over your own getting the heck away from them. 1% chance it works out okay....

15% is plenty. you already have better gear and the 15%. no matter how much buff you get, you're still going to have to do mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Mergadeth

or run towards another person >.< Seen that too many times. You either eat their twister with them or trip over your own getting the heck away from them. 1% chance it works out okay....

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I've, to this date, never been hit by a twister , and I've had t5 on farm since 2.1 came out.... you just need to pay attention, most people die because they don't have twin focus targeted and get merked when there's a twister + dread at the same time.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

I've, to this date, never been hit by a twister , and I've had t5 on farm since 2.1 came out.... you just need to pay attention, most people die because they don't have twin focus targeted and get merked when there's a twister + dread at the same time.

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I have also managed to avoid twisters completely. The mechanics were easy to learn as a ranged dps honestly. What I mean is seeing other people bumble into each other and splode XD

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

LOL what? All they did was increase time it took for twister to cast. All that changed in the strategy was how you dodged twister, that's it. And if you're talking pre echo, than even more LOL. T7 is called the static killer for a reason. And even T6 is way more difficult than T5 ever was, people just derp and can't dodge dive bombs, or run in a straight line to dodge twisters.

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Ummm.. I don't think t6 is harder then twin. It doesn't have an enrage timer(a real enrage timer) But then LoS and super slug are cheat tactics than how T6 was originally meant to be fought in concept.

Now T7....uuugh....now that is one messed up turn.

But it is true. Twintainia even to this day, is prep work for next coil. Everything you learn in twintainia directly applies to T6, and t6 to t7 etc.

It builds the player and the party for the next turn which is very relivant.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

LOL what? All they did was increase time it took for twister to cast. All that changed in the strategy was how you dodged twister, that's it. And if you're talking pre echo, than even more LOL. T7 is called the static killer for a reason. And even T6 is way more difficult than T5 ever was, people just derp and can't dodge dive bombs, or run in a straight line to dodge twisters.

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Genuinely curious why you think T7 is a static killer. Enrage timer is almost impossible to reach (unless you had 4+ deaths during the fight), RNG can be gotten around (leaving a renauld up until a new one spawns), and it's a pretty forgiving fight.

T8 is only a tad difficult because of the enrage timer, imho.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Genuinely curious why you think T7 is a static killer. Enrage timer is almost impossible to reach (unless you had 4+ deaths during the fight), RNG can be gotten around (leaving a renauld up until a new one spawns), and it's a pretty forgiving fight.

T8 is only a tad difficult because of the enrage timer, imho.

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No I would say T7 is harder then twin definitely, T7 is not an easy to manage turn, T6 even with cheat is still somewhat comparable.

The thing is, what we have learned in t5 is prep work for future turns. You can't say algebra is hard after learning geometry, because one builds upon another.

And finally T5 was so not youtubed Mr.happy much like how T9 isn't. Stop using other groups ideas like your own and call it easy.

Everyone was wtf howto beat dive bombs...Till BG went...hey stack on the ditch. everyone went OMFG...now it's standard.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

stuff

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Where in my post did I say twin was harder than t7? Everything you're saying is putting words into my mouth, and even if I did say those things you can't definitively say I'm wrong; it's my opinion. It is not fact that t5 is harder than t7 or vice versa. And yes, I found t5 (post twister nerf, of course) and t7 not very difficult. And considering I don't like spending 30+ hours wiping while trying to learn the mechanics of a fight, of course I watched a video/read a guide before doing them. If you're saying that suddenly makes a fight ezmode, I'm not even sure what to say.

And personally, I strongly dislike Mr. Happy videos. He makes the fights way more complicated then they really have to be. He should really keep it simple.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Everyone was wtf howto beat dive bombs...Till BG went...hey stack on the ditch. everyone went OMFG...now it's standard.

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Curious to know if there was any other intended way to beat the dive bombs or if that ditch method is the ONLY way...

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Originally Posted by Mergadeth

Curious to know if there was any other intended way to beat the dive bombs or if that ditch method is the ONLY way...

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If everyone is spread out and runs in the correct direction if targeted it can be avoided. It's just a lot more difficult.

Echo doesn't help you dodge anyways

Aw man I really wanted higher buffs.

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Originally Posted by Mergadeth

Curious to know if there was any other intended way to beat the dive bombs or if that ditch method is the ONLY way...

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Back in 2.0....t5 is hush hush, so every group had then own method and didn't spread it like Mr.Happy videos that everyone youtubes.

So we don't know which groups did what method. And probably a wild wild west type strat. But I can tell you in the long twin thread. Ditch method was definitely not known to many statics.

The ditch method was publicly made when BG release their twin kill video.

But the many ways Twin was fought, their tactics and their skills directly apply in other fights.

For one thing... focus target. I know of about 20 times people don't know what focus target is before actually trying to take on twin. T1-T4 does not need focus target on bosses, neither do they need it on anything of the HM stuff and back in 2.0, and only vaguely in extremes.

What's the first thing you learn in t6?

I disagree that turn 7 is so so hard. It just requires people to pay attention. I have the attention span if a fruit fly and I was able to do it. I rarely if ever turn people into stone.

Yes, it's hard to pug it. But if you don't have a "static" for the hardest coil, you probably aren't going to get far anyway. It just takes one person that isn't willing to listen to how to do the fight to wipe you.

Is it the fact that you can't carry people as easily that makes this fight hard?

We still haven't killed turn 9, and while I'd like to spend more time on it (we only raid 2 days for 2 hours each most weeks), I'm not broken up that we still have farther to go to figure it out. If we killed it already I'd be bored. We aren't hardcore at all. In fact, some weeks we don't even go in the second day.