Vote Kick abuse really needs to end.

I like how people thinks spending their time watching CS falls under the "AFK" category.
I rarely see people actually use the vote kick system to kick someone with a valid reason.
Most of the time I see people simply kick first timers/people who are relatively new in dungeons for "Harassment" when they did not harassed anyone verbally or acting hostile or being trollish (Actually the opposite)
Then some people just made some mistakes in a fight or watching CS, they kick them for "AFK".
People who came in a dungeon and did not say a word were kicked for "Cheating", when they are just probably a newbie on PS3/4 without a keyboard to chat.
The only time I see someone kick people for a valid reason is when they kick someone who DC'd for like over 5 minutes, and got vote kicked with a reason of being "Offline"

This is just sad that people don't understand the meaning of "Harassment", "AFK" and "Cheating"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Whether SE spelled it out explicitly or not, it's not hard to read between the lines. Anyone who thinks SE added Roulette simply to give players a new way to obtain Tomestones is fooling themselves. They added it to ensure that no matter how the game ages, there will always be people available to help new players complete old content. It's a marvelous idea but, as noted in the CM and Praetorium examples, it needs some polish.

---

That's exactly why it's level sync'd content. That right there says volumes about SE's intentions with these low level dungeons. Every other game separates the high levels from the low levels, but SE had the foresight to acknowledge that the game would one day, like its predecessor XI, become top-heavy and there would be fewer people to help new players complete content. Their brilliance with level sync was just taken one step further, so instead of only top level content in the roulette, we have level sync dungeons to help new players out.

If you think this is bad, just imagine if XIV had this option:
http://i60.tinypic.com/8x0jzt.jpg

Rather than saying who is wrong and who is right, I want to ask what is everyone's stance on this question.
Why do you think SE have not added something like "Other", "Incompetent", "Not following the majority" and/or "Watching Cut Scene when doing speed run" in the list of vote kick reason?

I personally believe that SE wants to keep the community friendly and avoid conflicts, and encourage veteran players to provide tips and tricks to the new players instead of kicking them on sight. And the above reasons can be very biased and become really unfair to other players. I strongly believe there is a reason there are only "Harassment", "Cheating", "AFK" and "Offline" to choose from in the vote kick system, however people seems to just randomly pick one of the reason just to kick someone they don't like as if it will have no consequences for doing so.

Quote:

---

I really wish a SE dev could get on this thread just to clarify that it is NOT harassment for someone to watch a cutscene, even if 7 others are waiting.

---

A dev is not needed to tell us this, as anyone with a brain should already have figured that out on their own

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

A dev is not needed to tell us this, as anyone with a brain should already have figured that out on their own

---

Oh, I agree - I think it could just at least put one of the arguments put forth here to rest, however, for good :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luxx

we need to weed out nasty players like you and others who think we should all
bend backwards to play the game how YOU want it.

---

Which is ironic, because it's EXACTLY what you are telling the rest of us to do; bend backwards to play the game YOU feel it should be played. Ironic statement is ironic. Also, seeing how you admited you're all for abusing the vote kick system, I guess that makes you a hypocrite as well.

I don't undersatnd why so many people able to judge OP's story without sufficient information ^^?

OP has not mentoned how long and how many CS the player had watched??
If no battle had been carried out, did it mean 15minutes of the first CS?
If someone in his party did not satisfy OP waiting, someone should initial kick OP but not the watcher?
If for role reason someone didn't kick op, why not op leave right after the kick?
And I really want to know what had going on after someone had been kicked, they finished it with OP or OP had left right after?

By the way, I read some comments about "new player need xxx need yyy need xxx, need slow".
TBH I found all my new player friends only want catch up, they are the one really want rush and fast complete ! ^^;
Maybe they want to reach the state that starting to save thier tomestones as soon as possible so will not lost the weekly cap. I am not sure, even I think they are too rush but it is their choice or personal preference.

And please, to those who think new players need realtime CS, I am not new player, can I have it?
If I can have it, how come a new player cannot have it?
It is just your choice to watch or not, and by system design others can go ahead,
and I will be more happy if others just go ahead as I feel very uncomfortable if I let others waiting.

SE should implement the no cutscene skipping idea for the main scenario roulettes. Let's see how many "main scenario roulette is to help newer players" will be left queueing for it.

I have no idea why people even bother doing main scenario roulette if they want quick myth. Brayflox HM SRs will likely net u the same, if not more myths in the time it takes to finish a CM/Prae run even with all 8 vets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VesperValveto

High geared players are being paid extra tomes to CARRY newbies through non-endgame anything.

Those that fail to realize this shouldn't waste the time of the players who are helping the players who actually need to do the content in question.

---

So new players, joining the instance by the wisdom of SEs mechanics, which they also have little choice in, makes these high leveled players some superior Aristocracy entitled to some twisted sense of democratic prejudice.

Through conceit and self importance they redefine harassment as anything they don't like.

I suppose active involvement in the fights in any particular instance by the noob, (after they skip the cutscene of course), will also be considered being "carried", as if just because this is his first go, his DPS isn't actually really there at all.

"Time" itself is your only real revelation on why 7 people should vote-kick some noob, because you all started 2 months ago and they started last week, "wow", and by kicking the noob and potentially needing to get a replacement you have effectively wasted your "own time" by your own vote, classic "beat the dead horse syndrome".

To my knowledge 7 "high geared" players can probably "face role" that content anyway, so kicking them isn't alleviating to your inconvenience after you examine the "time" and effort you applied to the action of wasting your "own" time "yourselves".

If you like being paid to carry noobs through content, why kick them?, if you don't why don't you take it up with SE?, for that matter why doesn't the noob complain about being forced to use a system which puts them in parties with warm fuzzy white knights like you.

I have heard of low regard for other human beings, but this takes the cake.

Since people want more information on if the player who was kicked was an afker or not, I am happy to oblige.

I can pretty much say, without a doubt, they were not AFKing in the cutscene. We waited inside the ring before entering the duty for about a minute. Before the first boss, the other Tank started it almost immediately upon entry, and the player in question came rushing out of the cutscene to join up. This happened at every point in the entire dungeon from until they were kicked. They only waited (albeit grudgingly) one time throughout the entire run, and we were waiting for less than a minute. And none of the cutscenes in Prae stretch the five minute mark as far as I know. If we were waiting for more than five minutes, then yeah, that signals a red flag that something is up.

They didn't say anything throughout the entire run, nor did they mention they were new. Since they earned that "Mapping the Realm" achievement and their gear wasn't the best even for a new endgame player, it was pretty much obvious at that point that it was their first time. The point where they were kicked was before the second battle with Ultima, and the cutscene preceding that is fairly long. (Maybe about a minute if you rush through all the dialogue but if you do that, you might as well skip...)

Anyways, my main concern is not the cutscenes. It was that a new player was unfairly kicked from a dungeon when they had done nothing wrong. Watching a cutscene, as far as I know, does not count as AFK/Offline/Harassment/Cheating and I already verified above that they were not AFKing. They just wanted to get this dungeon done. Run it how it was meant for new players to run.

This could have happened anywhere else, and if other people I've asked about this very subject are to be believed, it can happen anywhere else and does happen.

It may happen it isn't the other Tank rush up. As tank I were waiting someone's CS, but there is always some smart one who engage boss because he doesn't care anyone other than him. I only pray that will happen one day when the CS watching is the other tank, so I can sit down and see all the group wipe and then say the smart one that he deserved that.

the thing with the notion of FFXIV disclining is that nothing guarantees that something is effectively done. No way to be able to see it, as far as you, me, and the rest is aware the report was just there for the sake of it. I have reported abuse on me and others as well, the latest I was kicked from the CT because I used the....return button instead of waiting dead on the floor when visibly there was no way I wuold be ressurected due to carelesness of the players (I was chased by diras, 3 of them, to be exact hitting me like mad and inevitably I died lol although I was on pot duty) . I was asked why I did use the return button, I answered, they didnt like the answer they kicked me out...

Mind you, what do you expect when you allow *children* to have access to something that visibly their maturity level doesnt allow them to exercice, with the due decorum, the possibility to kick people from a game ?...there is nothing to expect other then abuse, unless real sanctions are applied and that, I am afraid, isnt something any decent game programers would do, sanction against paying members ? that is not conceivable and requires manpower to check all that, manpower costs money, how do you all believe that something is still being done ? I report but I have no hopes at all that something is being done...mostly because there is no return although you would or could be the first victim of it and you perfectly know who were the culprits that banned you in the first place, right ? so where is the ...secret about it ?

The lack of education and respect seem to be the main problems..but that is inherent to human nature some were educated others werent or forgot about it, internet anonimity allows that, it is often referred as diversity.

Mei

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeonBlade

So... let's try and work this out... You join a Roulette (which is to help other players complete a duty) for Main Scenario (which is for the main storyline quests), who do you think you're supposed to be helping here...? I don't care if 7/8 of the players in that duty are in full high allagan with high allagan weapons, if there is someone there who wants to watch the cutscenes, then you let them watch the cutscenes... This isn't for YOU, you're not doing this for YOU, you're doing it for THEM, and being rewarded for helping THEM.

---

Incorrect; My reasons for going in there are irrelevant. if 7/8 players in the duty don't want to be held up by someone who is watching CSs, then they can vote to kick. It's as simple as that. Nobody is more important than anybody else in this game that we play, therefor majority rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VesperValveto

Incorrect; My reasons for going in there are irrelevant. if 7/8 players in the duty don't want to be held up by someone who is watching CSs, then they can vote to kick. It's as simple as that. Nobody is more important than anybody else in this game that we play, therefor majority rules.

---

Actually, you're incorrect, and kicking someone for watching CSs is abuse and a bannable offense. There is no "majority rules" when it comes to kicking. There's a small set of reasons you can legitimately kick someone for and playing the game as it's intended certainly isn't one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VesperValveto

Incorrect; My reasons for going in there are irrelevant. if 7/8 players in the duty don't want to be held up by someone who is watching CSs, then they can vote to kick.

---

This is getting ridiculous - join a DF and if you ever get a new player from Leviathan, tell him/her that since you're a tank and have 6 others who will be 'harassed' by their watching cutscenes they better not or they are kicked. If they ever 'afk' by watching the CS and therefore 'harass' you -- please initiate a vote kick on them and let us know when/if you ever get back from your ban. Let us also know their name so I can gladly take the place of you and tank it for them (hence the Leviathan). As the initiator, you will bear the brunt of the report - oh, and be sure to tell the 'newbie' to go ahead and report you...That will test your 'it is okay to kick' theory out pretty well, I think.

Edit: Meh - I just checked the lodestone - you joined the forums in april and your PLD is your only 50...I just...wow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Edit: Meh - I just checked the lodestone - you joined the forums in april and your PLD is your only 50...I just...wow.

---

He's just a troll or a self-righteous Roeg giving all other Roegs a bad name. Leave the drivel alone and he'll eventually disappear into obscurity when he gets bored of not getting any responses.

Exactly, is the kind of player who will like to make/join a troll party and do whatever he wants because... hey, we're majority

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

It is pretty much the only answer that make any sense, and it DOES make a LOT of sense.

---

It makes zero sense. Other than the specific Low Level/Guildhest duties all the other Roulettes have a level 50 requirement. How is that helping new players? Additionally High Level and Expert Duty Roulettes with their iLevel requirement are for new players? Your logic is completely flawed in this regard.

On the subject of the Storyline Roulettes, while they are no doubt there as an assistance to players who aren't in LS's/FC's or have a sufficient Friend's List they are also a huge draw for long-term players due to their Myth reward vs effort ratio. Equally, stating, "If you want Myth go farm them elsewhere!" as a response is delusional considering S-E clearly are aware people wouldn't run these instances unless they dangled a significant carrot there in the first place.

You're all wrong. Learn to be civil to one another and stop forcing people to play like you. If someone joins the party and they are new for god sake try to help them like a decent person. If everyone joined and no one is new then by all means do a speed run and vote out the person who just doesn't want to do it slowly. You ALL need to learn to use some context and make the best decision so that you aren't a complete A-hole to the other players. Treat others as you would want to be treated yourself in their situation, stop being completely selfish when you join a party with 7 other people, and never forget that you were a newbie once too. All of this BS could be completely avoided if people would just stop being dbags.

I have always wondered about this, when the person who wants to watch the CS is watching it, and there is a point where two CS are almost back to back, does speedrun ruin the experience of the person wanting to watch the CS? More specifically, does it skip a CS when this happens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

You're all wrong. Learn to be civil to one another and stop forcing people to play like you. If someone joins the party and they are new for god sake try to help them like a decent person. If everyone joined and no one is new then by all means do a speed run and vote out the person who just doesn't want to do it slowly. You ALL need to learn to use some context and make the best decision so that you aren't a complete A-hole to the other players. Treat others as you would want to be treated yourself in their situation, stop being completely selfish when you join a party with 7 other people, and never forget that you were a newbie once too. All of this BS could be completely avoided if people would just stop being dbags.

---

That is incorrect. You can not vote someone out for not wanting to do a speedrun just as you can't vote them out for coming into the dungeon with the bare minimum gear requirements, not even if the other 7 agree. That is abuse of the vote kick feature and should be reported as such. If people think not conforming to groupthink is "harassment" I suggest not wasting your time and just report them, they can argue the semantics with a GM.

When people want to run dungeons with requirements outside of the default conditions (certain ilvl, assumed familiarity with mechanics, skipping cutscenes, etc.) then they need to use party finder. Simple as that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scarletyoshi

....
When people want to run dungeons with requirements outside of the default conditions (certain ilvl, assumed familiarity with mechanics, skipping cutscenes, etc.) then they need to use party finder. Simple as that.

---

That is absolutely correct. Thank you stating it so clearly and plainly.

People need to quit abusing the duty finder. The duty roulette rewards are there for people to help other players, especially the lower level, and 1st-timers.

Quote:

---

if 7/8 players in the duty don't want to be held up by someone who is watching CSs, then they can vote to kick.

---

Then they can risk having action taken against their accounts for it, because that is not an acceptable use of the vote kick.

Not to mention the fact you're still talking nonsense anyway because 7 vets *cannot* be "held up" by 1 person in CM/Prae.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fynlar

Then they can risk having action taken against their accounts for it, because that is not an acceptable use of the vote kick.

Not to mention the fact you're still talking nonsense anyway because 7 vets *cannot* be "held up" by 1 person in CM/Prae.

---

Those 7 jerks all overgeared will usually blow thru every fight and leave the 1st-timer wondering where everyone went and what has even happened. Sometimes, when I am the healer, I tell these people to wait for the 1st-timer, and still they go off and clear everything with just the 6 of them, locking me outside of the boss battles and harassing me with all sorts of BS while I wait for the 1st-timer so they are not stranded wondering what happened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foo01

Those 7 jerks all overgeared will usually blow thru every fight and leave the 1st-timer wondering where everyone went and what has even happened. Sometimes, when I am the healer, I tell these people to wait for the 1st-timer, and still they go off and clear everything with just the 6 of them, locking me outside of the boss battles and harassing me with all sorts of BS.

---

What about when it's 8 Pros and only one person doesn't want to run it faster just because reasons. The entire reasoning for not booting him would be what? Roulette + reasons? If no one is new to the dungeon at all then the first timer excuse falls very very flat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

What about when it's 8 Pros and only one person doesn't want to run it faster just because reasons. The entire reasoning for not booting him would be what? Roulette + reasons? If no one is new to the dungeon at all then the first timer excuse falls very very flat.

---

8 Pros having a hissy fit with each other was not the topic of this thread. Please read what the OP wrote. It is about 1st-timers being picked on and abused. That is what is not right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VesperValveto

Incorrect; My reasons for going in there are irrelevant. if 7/8 players in the duty don't want to be held up by someone who is watching CSs, then they can vote to kick. It's as simple as that. Nobody is more important than anybody else in this game that we play, therefor majority rules.

---

Sorry, your concept of vote kick worthy offenses can and will get you reported. Your way of thinking is flawed and against the intent of the vote kick system. Watching a cut scene is not and will never be harassment in its most basic sense. Learn to be a less negative human being. Kthnx!

If a first-timer makes it to Castrum or Praetorium, it is really a good thing, and the 7 other vets should help them celebrate by watching the cut scenes with them. It isn't everyday that you get new player to the game that has stuck thru it and made it that far. And it doesn't help the game, the community, or the vets themselves to make things unpleasant for the first-timer. Because getting that far shows that they have put in the time and effort not to mention the subscription needed to support the game, and driving them away with jerk behavior is counterproductive. I would actually like to see more first-timers because that means the player base population is growing. It would be a sad day when you don't see first-timers come thru when I'm doing duty roulette main scenario.

It is to vet's enlightened self interest that we help the 1st-timer thru there and that it is pleasant, which means the 1st-timer gets to experience the game in its entirety with the cutscenes. In some respects getting to Castrum and Praetorium, is kind of like graduation, but sure can get the paperwork in the mail without any fanfare (a.k.a review the stuff in the inn), but it is not same feeling. Forcing them to skip cutscenes, and being rude about it, and even vote kick abuse so that they can't get thru it, well the vets are doing their damn best to drive the 1st-timers away. And when subscriptions drop, everyone suffers. This is not a solo offline game people.

Look the odd chance like 1 in 20 that you get a 1st-timer. Sure it is 7 other, and maybe watching all the cutscenes will slow it down at most 30 minutes, in the big picture in the worst case it comes to 7x30minutes/20 so roughly 10.5 minutes overall for everyone over period of 20 days (since you can only do DR once a day). You want to tell me a small 10 minute delay for the myth/soldiery reward is worth being complete jerks and possibly driving another player away?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VesperValveto

Anything else?

---

As a matter of fact yes, I do have one more question to ask, the one question you haven't answered yet.

If in fact the under-geared, un-experienced, carried noob is "being carried" you don't need him/her in the party to clear the content anyway.

If they don't need to be there, "how are they holding anyone up"?, there is only one way to answer this, which totally invalidates every statement you've made in this thread.

The fact that 7 people took the time to kick the noob (who isn't needed) is the only real holdup you've mentioned.

Instead of just forgetting him, and moving on, you took the time to harass yourselves by making the effort to kick a noob who wasn't needed anyway, sounds like shoveling "air" to me.

[QUOTE=Foo01;2097901]If a first-timer makes it to Castrum or Praetorium, it is really a good thing, and the 7 other vets should help them celebrate by watching the cut scenes with them. It isn't everyday that you get new player to the game that has stuck thru it and made it that far. And it doesn't help the game, the community, or the vets themselves to make things unpleasant for the first-timer. Because getting that far shows that they have put in the time and effort not to mention the subscription needed to support the game, and driving them away with jerk behavior is counterproductive.

Lol I don't see many gamers post like this anymore after 30+ years playing video games, this is outstanding character for todays gamer population, character to look up to.

You must find todays gamer population a minefield in no-mans land.

I like your attitude, keep it up. I personally sit through the dungeon waiting for the first timer to finish his cutscene while the others just go on and do their thing. After they are done with cutscene I show them the way so they won't get lost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VesperValveto

It is harassment and the both of you should consider yourself lucky that you had an understanding group that was willing to carry around the dead weight instead of booting you.

---

No, it is not harassment. Not even close. Harassment is by it's very definition: "to trouble, torment, or confuse by continual persistent attacks, questions, etc."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harassment

Perhaps the word you were looking for is "inconvenience." Funny thing about harassment is it can't be spelled without the word "ass," which is what people who kick others for watching cut scenes happen to be. Sorry to come along and correct you, but being a college student and all, I think it was your condescending and inflammatory "Citation needed" nonsense that provoked me. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Motorball

No, it is not harassment. Not even close. Harassment is by it's very definition: "to trouble, torment, or confuse by continual persistent attacks, questions, etc."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harassment

Perhaps the word you were looking for is "inconvenience." Funny thing about harassment is it can't be spelled without the word "ass," which is what people who kick others for watching cut scenes happen to be. Sorry to come along and correct you, but being a college student and all, I think it was your condescending and inflammatory "Citation needed" nonsense that provoked me. :p

---

You're wrong. Sorry, this must be so embarrassing for you, being a "college" student and all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDaemon

Sorry, your concept of vote kick worthy offenses can and will get you reported.

---

Abuse of the report feature is generally frowned about. I'd be careful about doing that if I was you.

Maybe it's just me.. But... I've never once been kicked ever. I can't imagine how you have to grate on people to be kicked multiple times.

EDIT:

PS: To the guy above me, you're being melodramatic if you believe someone watching a CS is harassment. I don't like watching CS in dungeons, but harassment? For real? I would argue that given the Devs put those stupidly long things in there, it should be expected some people are going to watch the cinematics, it is a part of the game after all. Which is why I pretty much don't PUG anything, ever. You're either extremely thin skinned or misunderstanding what harassment means.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lamentations

The fact that 7 people took the time to kick the noob (who isn't needed) is the only real holdup you've mentioned.

Instead of just forgetting him, and moving on, you took the time to harass yourselves by making the effort to kick a noob who wasn't needed anyway, sounds like shoveling "air" to me.

---

Incorrect; Kicking someone who is AFKing through the content because they are too busy watching a movie is not "the only real holdup" that has been mentioned. It takes longer to down content with less people than it does to down it with more people. The movie watcher is wasting everyone's time, and their spot would be much better filled by someone who needs to down the content, and will actually be playing with the group as opposed to sitting there while everyone else does it for them

Also, just a side note, you can't shovel a gas. Do you know what a shovel is and how to use one?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

PS: To the guy above me, you're being melodramatic if you believe someone watching a CS is harassment. I don't like watching CS in dungeons, but harassment? For real? I would argue that given the Devs put those stupidly long things in there, it should be expected some people are going to watch the cinematics, it is a part of the game after all. Which is why I pretty much don't PUG anything, ever. You're either extremely thin skinned or misunderstanding what harassment means.

---

Why don't you try reading the entire thread before spouting off your uninformed opinion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VesperValveto

Incorrect; Kicking someone who is AFKing through the content because they are too busy watching a movie is not "the only real holdup" that has been mentioned. It takes longer to down content with less people than it does to down it with more people. The movie watcher is wasting everyone's time, and their spot would be much better filled by someone who needs to down the content, and will actually be playing with the group as opposed to sitting there while everyone else does it for them

Also, just a side note, you can't shovel a gas. Do you know what a shovel is and how to use one?

---

You should know...if someone is 'too busy watching a movie' then they are not 'away from the keyboard...' -- I mean, really...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VesperValveto

Why don't you try reading the entire thread before spouting off your uninformed opinion?

---

Probably for the same reason you seem to lack basic social skills and a grasp of basic definitions and concepts of the English language. Oh, and holy hell dude, do you really need to start so many posts with, "Incorrect.", that's generally reserved for objective topics. Hell, do you even know what facts are? Spoilers: They aren't opinions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

You should know...if someone is 'too busy watching a movie' then they are not 'away from the keyboard...' -- I mean, really...

---

White knight the behavior all you want to, at the end of the day it gets them kicked and that's how it will continue to go ^_^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

Probably for the same reason you seem to lack basic social skills and a grasp of basic definitions and concepts of the English language. Oh, and holy hell dude, do you really need to start so many posts with, "Incorrect.", that's generally reserved for objective topics. Hell, do you even know what facts are? Spoilers: They aren't opinions.

---

The time spent writing this would have been better spent reading through the thread so you would know what you were talking about. Sorry you couldn't do that.