Yoshi-P: Atma drop % = "it's just luck"

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but I have tried this and it's pretty good. Please don't rage if it doesn't work for you, but I am currently 3/4 for 4 hours straight. (missed one cus I was in CT)

This is in Server time
Atma of the MAIDEN - Central Shroud - 1:00
Atma of the SCORPION - Southern Thanalan - 2:00
Atma of the WATER BEARER - Upper La Noscea - 3:00
Atma of the GOAT - East Shroud - 4:00
Atma of the BULL - Eastern Thanalan - 5:00
Atma of the RAM - Middle La Noscea - 6:00
Atma of the TWINS - Western Thanalan - 7:00
Atma of the LION - Outer La Noscea - 8:00
Atma of the FISH - Lower La Noscea - 9:00
Atma of the ARCHER - North Shroud - 10:00
Atma of the SCALES - Central Thanalan - 11:00
Atma of the CRAB - Western La Noscea - 12:00

The argument that angers me the most about Atma is when people say "durrrr they just don't want people to get it overnight," meanwhile there are cases of people completing a set of atma in around ten hours... soooo... logic much?

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Originally Posted by Lucke

I think the problem is the loss of control with the RNG. We LOOOOVE control and RNG takes that away. Think of Soldery tomes, most people don't mind that because we have CONTROL over how much Soldery tomes we get. We can do alotta Brayflox for alotta Soldery, or we can decide to take a break and not do any dungeons. Everytime we do Brayflox we KNOW we will get further to our goal of buying that wicked awesome Daystar robe. We can CONTROL when we get that robe. We can do alot of the Bray, get a bunch of Soldiery, and get the Daystar robe as soon as we can (Soldiery caps and all). Every time we do Bray, we are that much closer to our goal.

We lose that CONTROL when doing ATMA. We have NO CONTROL AT ALL if the thing will drop or not. Tell me, how is it fair that I can walk into a zone, do a FATE just in passing and grab an Atma, while Joe Blow has been in this same zone for 3 days and STILL hasn't gotten his atma after 500 FATEs. That rewards the lucky and punishes the unlucky. We can't control if we're lucky or not.

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^ This. Not only that but there is no way to tell that the system is even working. When the only way of knowing if the drops are functioning properly is "oh look, I got a drop" there is zero transparency for this in a game that is constantly plagued with minor and sometimes major bugs, like any young MMO. We have no way of knowing whether or not something is wrong because it's not like we see the dice roll happen for the RNG, and we don't see any progress for our "work." I'm sorry but after 20 straight dropless hours I expect to know whether or not I can trust that the game isn't bugged...

All of the pro-Atma arguments are ridiculous and are, at best, fueled by sheer addiction. This is another reason I can't believe this crap is even allowed in a game anymore. This is sheer gambling-style "content" with the potential to be extremely addictive. I don't understand how other gambling content, such as the Mog Lottery in XI, was banned in NA while something like the Atma farm, which is nothing more than a slot-machine you're paying for with hours and hours of your life, is considered acceptable.

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Originally Posted by baopee

just started farming the Atmass lst night, so far 3 hours for 3 Atmas. Fish, crab, and scale

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Originally Posted by Rubieus

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but I have tried this and it's pretty good. Please don't rage if it doesn't work for you, but I am currently 3/4 for 4 hours straight. (missed one cus I was in CT)

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Yes, I thought this worked as well and I even managed to get 6 drops in ~4hrs..... now I'm on a 25-30 hour dry spell without any drops. Everyone in my FC has tried this to no real noticeable improvement. My gf tested this using server, local, and JST and it still took her 84-112 hours to get all 12. Most everyone in my FC took around that time with several having a much MUCH more painful experience.

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Originally Posted by Rubieus

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Sorry, but this was a theory posted awhile ago and was debunked. The OP is referring to a direct quote from the Producer which stated that there is no pattern or anything to it, it is simply luck.

It took me 98 hours to complete the atma portion of the quest. The books are a walk in the park compared to that hell of atma farming. Never again. Ever.

so I had 10 atma. logged on the next day tele to the wrong area did a fate and got the some one I already had. did fates allday got nothing. logged back on the next day tele to the right areas this time and got both on first try

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Originally Posted by Dayala

It took me 98 hours to complete the atma portion of the quest. The books are a walk in the park compared to that hell of atma farming. Never again. Ever.

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I actually like books. I think it's a sound concept with very clear progress and you're incentivized to do content that can actually be fun. They should have made it just the books, even if they were a little longer. The Atma farm should have never existed or, at the very least, it should have been a one time deal for all of your jobs or it should be a 100% drop rate on specific FATEs.

Edit: They could have made it 100% books and added an additional "Atma" category centric to low level zone FATEs which could have required doing something like a) beating a specifc boss FATE in a specific low level zone or b) completing every FATE in the zone once.

I have my atma, but I didn't like the process. It just felt so empty and grindy, not very fun.

The thing that gets me is that Yoshi-P says he doesn't want to add randomized mechanics into primal fights or Coil or bosses, on the basis that it isn't fair. Then we have this system where some people get their atmas in 12 hours, some in 12 days, and some who still don't have a full 12 and his response is "Oh well you're just unlucky, sorry."

Given his logic there should at least be some failsafe, like if you farm for x hours or chain x amount of fates you get one regardless. So yes people may get them quickly but everyone is guaranteed one per x amount of measurable effort.

I think people would care less about the RNG element if the grind was actually fun to participate in. Unfortunately it's a soulless, dull grind with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

I was bored and started some fates for my 2nd atma weapon

got 3 of 12 after doing 8 fates so far



well, but just 1 alexandrite out of 400 other fates xD

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I think people would care less about the RNG element if the grind was actually fun to participate in. Unfortunately it's a soulless, dull grind with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

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This.

Really guys? OK, so, Legions of Atma FATE Defenders, keep your face smiling, and repeat this:
"I, a Legionary of the Atma FATE Defenders, claim that I find participating in low-level FATEs - where all of my skills are unavailable, my gears' stats capped, and all of my progressions in the game thus far rendered obsolete - for hours upon hours, to be fun, enjoyable and is worthy of the dollars I spent"

Also, of course Yoshi would deny that theory. Would KFC confirm if you present to public their secret recipe? I assume that he's getting the programmers to remove that logic in the game

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

I have my atma, but I didn't like the process. It just felt so empty and grindy, not very fun.

The thing that gets me is that Yoshi-P says he doesn't want to add randomized mechanics into primal fights or Coil or bosses, on the basis that it isn't fair. Then we have this system where some people get their atmas in 12 hours, some in 12 days, and some who still don't have a full 12 and his response is "Oh well you're just unlucky, sorry."

Given his logic there should at least be some failsafe, like if you farm for x hours or chain x amount of fates you get one regardless. So yes people may get them quickly but everyone is guaranteed one per x amount of measurable effort.

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Yes the "lol sucks to be you" response to the iniquity of Atma is a surefire way to make rage intensify lol.

This may be a tad meta but people don't want to come hope to their hobby after a crappy day only to have a video-game hand them a monumental dickslap in reminding them that, in the real world, straight up luck will probably always win out over skill and hard work. The RNG shouldn't be there in the first place but seeing as it is there it most definitely shouldn't be so inconsistend that it can create an existential crisis as to why the hell we're paying for the privilidge of burning a LOT of manhours on a menial task with no challenge and no reward for the unlucky ones. The antipodal nature of the spectrum for this RNG garbage is outright depressing. There should not be people living "wow... I've been at this for 90 hours longer than this guy and he's already done multiple weapons..." I feel like I'm in the late nineties / early 2000s with this "content."

I'm just going to address one point that I keep seeing; that RNG is fair, when it is the opposite of fair. For something to be fair or balanced, then the same action, and same "amount" of that action, should consistently yield the same result. Some people acquired all 12 atmas in a single day, while others have been farming since 2.2 was released and still are not done. RNG means the same action =/= the same outcome; inherently lacking in balance. RNG is neither fair, nor fun, nor challenging. It is nothing more than lazy design and developers should stop using it.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

The thing that gets me is that Yoshi-P says he doesn't want to add randomized mechanics into primal fights or Coil or bosses, on the basis that it isn't fair. Then we have this system where some people get their atmas in 12 hours, some in 12 days, and some who still don't have a full 12 and his response is "Oh well you're just unlucky, sorry."

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That isn't what he meant by unfair. Random mechanics in a fight leads to asynchronous levels of effort between groups. Some groups might get it easy, some might not. So one group might have to put in less mechanical effort than another group to get the same reward. Grinding FATEs isn't mechanically difficult, it's just time consuming. It's the same level of effort no matter who's doing it, the only thing that changes is the length of time necessary to do it.

If it makes anyone feel better I have been farming atma since it was released, I run fates when I am not helping out or in a dungeon, I have found a total of 0 atma. 0.. none, zip, nada. How many weeks has it been? So yeah, if you have been farming and have gotten even 1 and are upset, just know some people have 0

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Originally Posted by Virin

If it makes anyone feel better I have been farming atma since it was released, I run fates when I am not helping out or in a dungeon, I have found a total of 0 atma. 0.. none, zip, nada. How many weeks has it been? So yeah, if you have been farming and have gotten even 1 and are upset, just know some people have 0

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Did you equiped your zenith while doing it in the right zones?

thats the thing though it requires no skill or effort wouldn't it be better if we had something to test our skills as level 50's rather than mind numbing fate grinding

Svara, Cyclops, Chimera, Behemoth, and Odin FATEs should all have 20% drop rate, just saying.

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Originally Posted by jacobvalladares

thats the thing though it requires no skill or effort wouldn't it be better if we had something to test our skills as level 50's rather than mind numbing fate grinding

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there is, its called coil

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Originally Posted by Zhi

there is, its called coil

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indeed, people cryed for easy obtainable gear they can grind for, because titan hm and co were to hard for the casual crowd

now they got it and they cry even more.

if someone writes he got not a single atma after x weeks/months it just reminds me on the thread, were a guy cryed about searching an atma for 5 whole days without success - at eastern la noscea :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Zhi

there is, its called coil

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for our relics i mean not just coil i'm not saying that we should have them just handed to us i do believe that if you want something you should work hard for it but mindlessly grinding fates in low level areas is not my idea of fun content. binding coil is fun because it challenges everyone to do better with their jobs but pressing two - three buttons is not challenging

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Originally Posted by jacobvalladares

for our relics i mean not just coil i'm not saying that we should have them just handed to us i do believe that if you want something you should work hard for it but mindlessly grinding fates in low level areas is not my idea of fun content. binding coil is fun because it challenges everyone to do better with their jobs but pressing two - three buttons is not challenging

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with the moment that something is challenging people will cry that its to hard

grinding fates without traces of mind is the only thing even the dumbest player can do
and that is, what the relic quest is supposed to be

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Grinding is a controversial subject among players. Many do not enjoy it, and disparage it as a symptom of poor or uninspired game design. Others embrace it, claiming that all games feature grinding to some extent, or claim to enjoy the practice of regular grinding. Some games, especially free-to-play games, allow players to bypass grinding by paying additional fees.

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There is a difference between grinding and RNG, we have BOTH...
You seem to not know how f2p are making their money, yes, because players buy to bypass that stupid grinding...

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

There is a difference between grinding and RNG, we have BOTH...

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I think it's down to semantics. I personally use the term grinding for any boring, repetitive online "task" where there is a finite goal, such as grinding experience points where you know what you need to achieve to gain your next level. RNG generally falls under farming to me but other people would argue it's all grinding / farming.

Grinding:
Example -> XP to level up your character
=> gain is direct proportional to the effort (must not be linear)

RNG:
Example -> open a chest
=> gain is depending on luck (from no luck to jackpot, its gambling with possibility to lose all)

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Grinding:
Example -> XP to level up your character
=> gain is direct proportional to the effort (must not be linear)

RNG:
Example -> open a chest
=> gain is depending on luck (from no luck to jackpot, its gambling with possibility to lose all)

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So, what would you classify sitting in one zone killing numerous mobs for a drop as?

You're still grinding but you're at the mercy of the Random Number Generator (RNG).

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

There is a difference between grinding and RNG, we have BOTH...
You seem to not know how f2p are making their money, yes, because players buy to bypass that stupid grinding...

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reading helps :p

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

reading helps :p

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I'd give you the same advice. I stated it's down to semantics. Many people don't separate grinding from RNG, it's all part of the same tedium.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

with the moment that something is challenging people will cry that its to hard

grinding fates without traces of mind is the only thing even the dumbest player can do
and that is, what the relic quest is supposed to be

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to be honest at lvl 50 you should know the ins and outs of you job from all your experience in dungeons so you shouldn't be a "dumb player" at that level so what's wrong with challenging content to reflect the skill that you should have gained leveling up your character like binding coil or maybe the new crystal tower that's coming in 2.3

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Originally Posted by jacobvalladares

to be honest at lvl 50 you should know the ins and outs of you job from all your experience in dungeons so you shouldn't be a "dumb player" at that level so what's wrong with challenging content to reflect the skill that you should have gained leveling up your character like binding coil or maybe the new crystal tower that's coming in 2.3

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right, you have ct and tbcob if you want to earn gear by doing challenging content

but there are still blms outside with a gs of 100 with a fire III, blizzard III, fire III, blizzard III etc. rotation, tanks who are unable to hold hate, dragoons or monks, who have no clue about their rotations or summoner who perform less dps then their egis

the only reason why there are relics is to give this folks (and persons who dont want to run challenging content, maybe because of lags or other issues) a weapon, which isnt the best ig, but still usefull for their satisfaction

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

right, you have ct and tbcob if you want to earn gear by doing challenging content

but there are still blms outside with a gs of 100 with a fire III, blizzard III, fire III, blizzard III etc. rotation, tanks who are unable to hold hate, dragoons or monks, who have no clue about their rotations or summoner who perform less dps then their egis

the only reason why there are relics is to give this folks a weapon, which isnt the best ig, but still usefull for their satisfaction

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true but why must we all suffer for the few who haven't quite familiarized themselves with their job when they could make content that is a long story based challenge that would encourage players to get off their bums and try to be better to attain your relic atma rather than mindless grinding where they learn nothing and still get rewarded for it when the players who give a flying ferret about the game and their job req's still sit waiting for even 1 atma

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Originally Posted by jacobvalladares

true but why must we all suffer for the few who haven't quite familiarized themselves with their job when they could make content that is a long story based challenge that would encourage players to get off their bums and try to be better to attain your relic atma rather than mindless grinding where they learn nothing and still get rewarded for it when the players who give a flying ferret about the game and their job req's still sit waiting for even 1 atma

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I expect that those players who do care are working on getting High Allagan weapons, which are the best weapons. On their way, they may also pick up the Weathered/Upgraded weapons (Novus is better due to the flexibility, but they are hardly needed to beat T9).

The Atma farming lets those who don't have the ability or desire to push into hard content to still get something decent and keep up to date for when future content comes out. They can do this over the stretch of the 6 months before something newer comes out - and even then, they may still not care to push into that content but they still have something to work towards. There are players in this game, y'know, who really couldn't care about doing Second Coil, but just enjoy the game anyway. The Novus path is ideal for them (out of the content available).

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Originally Posted by Themis

I expect that those players who do care are working on getting High Allagan weapons, which are the best weapons. On their way, they may also pick up the Weathered/Upgraded weapons (Novus is better due to the flexibility, but they are hardly needed to beat T9).

The Atma farming lets those who don't have the ability or desire to push into hard content to still get something decent and keep up to date for when future content comes out. They can do this over the stretch of the 6 months before something newer comes out - and even then, they may still not care to push into that content but they still have something to work towards. There are players in this game, y'know, who really couldn't care about doing Second Coil, but just enjoy the game anyway. The Novus path is ideal for them (out of the content available).

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I am that person. I could care less about coil, I am currently on Book 2 for Atma, I see no problems with the quest line as a whole. It's meant to be eating up your time at a leisurely pace. Not sure why it has fallen on deaf ear (or blind eyes) that you are not supposed to go in to the Atma quest line and expect 1 day results.

It was always luck but people never believe in luck. They always think there is some weird sinister undercovered secret plan behind their monitors. In all mmos I've played when something is based on RNG ppl always come out and say weird things like go to the X place, farm at the X hour, wear blue pants to increase the drop rate, farm with your character naked for better chances and BS like that. Always. RNG is an acronym for Random Number Generator. It's pure luck guys move on. You can get your atma at 1st fate you complete or it can take 2 days of extreme farming like happened to me for 1 atma. It's luck.

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Originally Posted by kiotsukete

Yeeah, I guess if they apparently only intend one Animus per player they surely succeeded with me ._.; oh well

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The Myth is the only problem here IMO. Sure the Atma are tedious but the myth is just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

But rng is unfair and we all know it is. It isn't a boss mechanic we can observe and learn from it. The fate of our atmas solely rely on the game itself and not us.
The game can just screw someone over and decide to just "never" allow them to get any drops because it just chooses to do so, it's very possible because it's rng.

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http://mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/...k1m8o1_500.png(For uninformed, this is Pinkie Pie, QUEEN OF RANDOM)

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

Not sure why it has fallen on deaf ear (or blind eyes) that you are not supposed to go in to the Atma quest line and expect 1 day results.

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Or 120th day results

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

The Myth is the only problem here IMO. Sure the Atma are tedious but the myth is just ridiculous.

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I have an abundant supply of myth by doing hunts consistently. Got my Novus bow that way and am currently going through a Novus shield now. With hunts I can get enough myth in less than a day for two alexandrites (800 x2) plus the daily alex map, which ain't too shabby.

The RNG for the Atma part is complete BS though... I went through that for TWO Animus weapons, so I think that's my masochistic limit on that.

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

I have an abundant supply of myth by doing hunts consistently. Got my Novus bow that way and am currently going through a Novus shield now. With hunts I can get enough myth in less than a day for two alexandrites (800 x2) plus the daily alex map, which ain't too shabby.

The RNG for the Atma part is complete BS though... I went through that for TWO Animus weapons, so I think that's my masochistic limit on that.

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The post you replied to is from 2 months ago pre-hunts...

Hm didn't notice the necro-bump. Anyway, point still stands that the process is at least less crappy after the Atmas have been attained.

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

I am that person. I could care less about coil, I am currently on Book 2 for Atma, I see no problems with the quest line as a whole. It's meant to be eating up your time at a leisurely pace. Not sure why it has fallen on deaf ear (or blind eyes) that you are not supposed to go in to the Atma quest line and expect 1 day results.

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Yes, but some people do get 1 day results. Some people get 1 week results.

Some people are lucky to get results over the course of several months
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There should be a cap on the total number of FATES you participate in before it's a guaranteed drop. There should not be reports of the lengths of time some people have spent working on this branch of the questline.


edit - I didn't see it was a huge necro either. Part of that probably has to do with the fact that the issue is still relevant.