CT loot lockout and the direction of this game will probably cause our FC to quit

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Originally Posted by Tenku

People like you who are so far behind shouldn't make assumptions. It takes less than 90 minutes to clear Coil Turn 1 to 5 and get over 200 ToM just from that alone. 3-4 more WP which takes about 9 minutes a run. 90 minutes + 36 minutes = 2 hours and 6 minutes to be completely done with the game for the week.

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Tomes are the only thing you play for? That's depressing.

I don't get why people would want there to be a lock out.


I get it, lots of people saying the "elite hardcorez" are a QQ minority. But here's the thing. We play this game alot. Its our hobby. I have a full life, sports, work, girl friend, friends. But At night, I like to come home and play before I go to sleep. When I'm sick I play. When my gf is busy I play. I have been playing a long time (1.0 pre-order). So yeah, I'm out of stuff to level for the most part, but that's not cus I don't have a life, its cus I've already done that stuff.

CT had the dream to many endgame players of being a low stress place where we could play what ever class (not just our main that we've been dying to coil on for months) and earn i80 gear with. Darklight is trash, i80 will be little better (as some already pointed out, fullmelded i70 will likely be better or on par). I wanted to grind CT like we used to CM or AK. Something to pass the time where small upgrades could be earned for second, third, fifth, and seventh classes. No, I don't expect any upgrades for my main here (since i'm 9/11 i90 and have full armor already) but I really wanted to gear up my other classes. Now.. its just another lock out. Not to mention, its kind of an awful situation. Say you're Doing CT for your Healer set, and you really want the body. Well, three runs in the boots drop.. you don't ahve them yet... but you really want the body... do you hold out? What if you don't get to grind again that week, or the loot gods are capricious? It'd be so easy to loose a week of loot this way.

IF they are going to do a weekly lock out, should be a new currency.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

First after 2 run, you may get one piece, second week you may need do 3 run to get the piece you want, more gear you get , less chance you will get the one you real need.

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I really don't understand why people are upset over the lockout unless these are all people wanting to get i80 the first week that CT is out so they can go stomp turn 5 the week after THEN complain that the game doesn't have enough content.

If you aren't enjoying the game, just quit. Stop paying. When you keep paying, they think it's fine. When the subs drop they will be forced to reassess. If your FC is quitting because of 2.1, that sucks, but bye bye. People are making it sound like you can't recruit people who are willing to stay and play. Building that community/static that wants to keep grinding for loot, etc. Just because X player leaves, that doesn't mean Y player can't find a new home. If you fail to see that, you are wasteful with your money and it is your own fault. It is your right to spend your money however you want, but don't expect pity when you come to the forums and cry about it.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Tomes are the only thing you play for? That's depressing.

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For a player with everything leveled and geared (as much as Yoshi will allow us)... What else is there?

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

IF they are going to do a weekly lock out, should be a new currency.

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I would be ok with a lockout per job. Run as a WAR and get an item, then Run it as a WHM and get an item, and so on. A currency would have to be setup properly. Like different bosses drop different currencies or tokens. If it was just a currency it would allow groups that cannot get past the 2nd boss to eventually i80 cap which... I don't think should be the case.

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

I really don't understand why people are upset over the lockout unless these are all people wanting to get i80 the first week that CT is out so they can go stomp turn 5 the week after THEN complain that the game doesn't have enough content.

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That is pretty much what they want to do.

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

I really don't understand why people are upset over the lockout unless these are all people wanting to get i80 the first week that CT is out so they can go stomp turn 5 the week after THEN complain that the game doesn't have enough content.

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Originally Posted by Yuichi

That is pretty much what they want to do.

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You both realise that's exactly what CT was advertised as right?
A catchup raid to quickly allow players who previously couldn't do Coil to get gear to make doing Coil easier.

Good riddance.

The community in this game won't really come to bare until all the flower hoppers have gone.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

You both realise that's exactly what CT was advertised as right?
A catchup raid to quickly allow players who previously couldn't do Coil to get gear to make doing Coil easier.

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Right but what these people want is no lockouts so they can spam it, get all the gear in a day, then spam coil next day get all the gear, then complain there is nothing to do.

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Originally Posted by Yuichi

Right but what these people want is no lockouts so they can spam it, get all the gear in a day, then spam coil next day get all the gear, then complain there is nothing to do.

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Lockouts for catch up gear/content is stupid. Lockouts for top tier gear/content is not. There is a difference.
Locking out CT is only detrimental to the players that actually needed help, most of which have probably already been waiting 3 months.

Something else I wondered about. Unless you are full iLvl 90, why wouldn't you run CT? You would be getting upgrades for all you iLvl 70 pieces right? So people complain about progression, but given another method to boost it and there's QQ because they are in coil.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

You both realise that's exactly what CT was advertised as right?

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Where specifically was this advertised in this way? A "please come here for a full gear set in a week so you can stomp coil tomorrow raid"

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Originally Posted by EmSix

A catchup raid to quickly allow players who previously couldn't do Coil to get gear to make doing Coil easier.

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Something that CT will be even if its limited to one item per week period, even without one item per week per job. The point is this is another place to get gear that will allow players and easier time through coil. All those players in full DL struggling with turn 4 will suddenly be players in full DL + 1 i80 item next week, then +2 i80's next week, and so on.

There is no "catch up" to be done at this point as coil is the end! Its not like all those turn 5 farming FC's are moving on the bigger and better things. Allowing players to RUSH to end-game is only going to anger the population when they run out of content because its easier to complete faster than SE could possibly come up with more.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

Lockouts for catch up gear/content is stupid. Lockouts for top tier gear/content is not. There is a difference.
Locking out CT is only detrimental to the players that actually needed help, most of which have probably already been waiting 3 months.

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Who's fault is that? When full DL is the bare minimum to enter, and tome farming is easy, what is holding people back from coil?

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

I really don't understand why people are upset over the lockout unless these are all people wanting to get i80 the first week that CT is out so they can go stomp turn 5 the week after THEN complain that the game doesn't have enough content.

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I'm 9/11 pieces of ilvl90 and I don't want a lockout. Its not like I'm going to run CT to get full ilvl80 just to wear it to T5. Also we don't even have CT and there is no content to do once you've done it. It doesn't matter lockouts or not Someone is going to be able to play more than others and there for be able to do more stuff.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Tomes are the only thing you play for? That's depressing.

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Pretty much you have anything else better to do? A lot of us log in a few times a week do CoB, cap Myth in AK/WP which takes maybe 4-6hrs total (including queue time) and log out. With lockouts SE doesn't allow us to take full advantage of the Armoury System, So unless you want to level a new Character then its pointless to have more than a few jobs level 50.

All this nonsense aside Lockouts are hurting the Casual Player more than it is helping them. The more they fall behind each week the further the are from the "Hardcore" players.

I'll go look it up but I believe Yoshi said that CT was meant to help Casual Players bridge the gap between them and the hardcore players so they could do CT.

My guess is they'll remove the lockout once they have more content to put out. Perhaps they're trying to keep people around while they're working on making more stuff? I'm not saying this is/was the best road to take, but it might be them trying to buy time. Maybe I'm just being Dr. Obvious, but I doubt it'll remain locked.

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Originally Posted by HaplessHermit

My guess is they'll remove the lockout once they have more content to put out. Perhaps they're trying to keep people around while they're working on making more stuff? I'm not saying this is/was the best road to take, but it might be them trying to buy time. Maybe I'm just being Dr. Obvious, but I doubt it'll remain locked.

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No one will care about getting level 80 gear when the next Coil turns will bring level 110 (if we continue this trend of releasing Coil, then CT to "fill the gap"). By then the bare minimum will be level 90, like DL is now.

Easing the lockout like, one month before 2.2, would make sense though.

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

There is no "catch up" to be done at this point as coil is the end! Its not like all those turn 5 farming FC's are moving on the bigger and better things. Allowing players to RUSH to end-game is only going to anger the population when they run out of content because its easier to complete faster than SE could possibly come up with more.

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Just because Coil is the end does not mean players need help catching up, skill can prove an issue to a lot of people. Giving players access to gear 10 levels above their current will yield dramatic increases in the percentage of players that currently clear coil. There are still lots of people that wipe to even Caduceus. Players will have more HP, giving them a bigger buffer for mistakes, such as not dodging AoEs. Healers will heal more, further increasing safety. DDs will do more damage, reducing the occasions where mistakes can happen each fight.
Coil raiders obviously do not need CT gear, even Yoshi's (laughable) comment in the Live Letter proves this. Therefore, the people who really need CT gear are forced to wait even longer.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Who's fault is that? When full DL is the bare minimum to enter, and tome farming is easy, what is holding people back from coil?

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Skill is, read my comment above.

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Originally Posted by HaplessHermit

My guess is they'll remove the lockout once they have more content to put out. Perhaps they're trying to keep people around while they're working on making more stuff? I'm not saying this is/was the best road to take, but it might be them trying to buy time. Maybe I'm just being Dr. Obvious, but I doubt it'll remain locked.

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The content that has a week long lockout is suppose to get lifted as more content comes out. And get replaced with another week lockout. So they have content ready to go or at least it should be pretty close to go.

But the thing is Crystal Tower was suppose to be in the game at launch and 2.1 should have been CoB turn6+ and 2.2 Crystal Tower.... But it wasn't ready and with all the 90k issues it got pushed back. So because they weren't ready we have to suffer with a lockout on CT. They should have just pushed launch to Sep.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

No one will care about getting level 80 gear when the next Coil turns will bring level 110 (if we continue this trend of releasing Coil, then CT to "fill the gap"). By then the bare minimum will be level 90, like DL is now.

Easing the lockout like, one month before 2.2, would make sense though.

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That's pretty much what I was thinking, yeah. They'll keep the lockout for now and then remove it when new content is close to coming out, since it'll all be pretty much irrelevant anyway.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

I'm 9/11 pieces of ilvl90 and I don't want a lockout. Its not like I'm going to run CT to get full ilvl80 just to wear it to T5. Also we don't even have CT and there is no content to do once you've done it. It doesn't matter lockouts or not Someone is going to be able to play more than others and there for be able to do more stuff.



Pretty much you have anything else better to do? A lot of us log in a few times a week do CoB, cap Myth in AK/WP which takes maybe 4-6hrs total (including queue time) and log out. With lockouts SE doesn't allow us to take full advantage of the Armoury System, So unless you want to level a new Character then its pointless to have more than a few jobs level 50.

All this nonsense aside Lockouts are hurting the Casual Player more than it is helping them. The more they fall behind each week the further the are from the "Hardcore" players.

I'll go look it up but I believe Yoshi said that CT was meant to help Casual Players bridge the gap between them and the hardcore players so they could do CT.

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Well you can start gearing your second job for coil that much sooner then right? After you get your final two pieces of ilvl90, you can start your next job and in one week, you can get up to 2 ilvl90 and one ilvl 80. I know its still not every job gear progressing a week, and some people probably do play every job per week in some fashion, but the potential to really gear one job in about 6 weeks for a TT clear isn't bad either. Of course that's RNG willing. Let's not forget that a lot of gear is job swappable, such as allagan tank gear. You get the chest piece and both WAR and PLD get a boost. If your goal is pure AF+1 gear then yeah, still 2.5 months.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

All this nonsense aside Lockouts are hurting the Casual Player more than it is helping them. The more they fall behind each week the further the are from the "Hardcore" players.

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Pretty sure you've got this backwards. The hardcores will have full i80 the week CT comes out with no lockout. The casuals will now be an entire gear set behind.

How exactly does no lockout help people who don't run CT 100 times a week?

Imho having a lockout per job is the way to go. This takes full advantage of the armor system and increases the time people can spend in CT in a meaningful way. I can see this being something really fun for those in a static group. Suddenly the healers are tanking, the tanks are dpsing, and the dps are healing.

People really just limit themselves in this game. There is so much to do I can never find enough time for it all.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

Just because Coil is the end does not mean players need help catching up, skill can prove an issue to a lot of people. Giving players access to gear 10 levels above their current will yield dramatic increases in the percentage of players that currently clear coil. There are still lots of people that wipe to even Caduceus. Players will have more HP, giving them a bigger buffer for mistakes, such as not dodging AoEs. Healers will heal more, further increasing safety. DDs will do more damage, reducing the occasions where mistakes can happen each fight.
Coil raiders obviously do not need CT gear, even Yoshi's (laughable) comment in the Live Letter proves this. Therefore, the people who really need CT gear are forced to wait even longer.

Skill is, read my comment above.

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It's not always skill's fault. While that does have some to do with it, a lot of it falls back on the community. You don't gain skill by hitting 50, or by grinding CM for philo, speed run wp for myth. You gain skill by going into coil and playing. But it gets toxic, when half the time you need to be in the 'in crowd' to go. It's a deterrent for many.

And to say coil raiders don't need CT gear is downright ridiculous and laughable in its own right. If that were the case, everyone who stepped in coil would have beaten it and speed ran it.

EDIT: In swimsuits.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

For a player with everything leveled and geared (as much as Yoshi will allow us)... What else is there?

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Gather, craft, help your FC, make new friends...

If you're only interested in doing one single thing quickly then why play a game designed to make you do everything slowly?

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Originally Posted by C-croft

It's not always skill's fault. While that does have some to do with it, a lot of it falls back on the community. You don't gain skill by hitting 50, or by grinding CM for philo, speed run wp for myth. You gain skill by going into coil and playing. But it gets toxic, when half the time you need to be in the 'in crowd' to go. It's a deterrent for many.

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True, but having better gear goes a long way towards making content easier. Also, there are people that still mess things up no matter how often they've been in coil. One of my good RL friends and their static are still wiping to Turn 2 3 weeks after forming their static.

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And to say coil raiders don't need CT gear is downright ridiculous and laughable in its own right. If that were the case, everyone who stepped in coil would have beaten it and speed ran it.

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Well, it all depends on how many classes they want to gear at the same time. I for one would love to be able to play other classes in Turn 5, but currently I can't as my Myth/Coil loot is taken by my PLD. Also, when the games producer cites a Coil raiders motivation to due CT as "for vanity" it's very telling.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Gather, craft, help your FC, make new friends...

If you're only interested in doing one single thing quickly then why play a game designed to make you do everything slowly?

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Gathering/Crafting is pretty pointless, the profit margins are appalling even compared to spamming WP for Philosophy materials (which are slowly becoming worthless too), and even then... What is there to buy? My FC is a full end game FC, no one ever needs help. For all of us, the end game is the only reason we play.
Ideally, I'd love to be able to content at my own pace, but oh well.

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Originally Posted by Toranja

If you are bored, it is your own fault. Get a life like the rest of us.

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http://images.wikia.com/nation/image...-here-meme.png

The RL card is in play! Watch out everyone!

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Originally Posted by EmSix

... What else is there?

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http://static.someecards.com/someeca...BlYzkxNGY1.png

Snap.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Gather, craft, help your FC, make new friends...

If you're only interested in doing one single thing quickly then why play a game designed to make you do everything slowly?

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But it's actually designed to get you to 50 fairly quickly. But then slows you down fairly hard when trying to max with one or two jobs, let alone 3+.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Well you can start gearing your second job for coil that much sooner then right? After you get your final two pieces of ilvl90, you can start your next job and in one week, you can get up to 2 ilvl90 and one ilvl 80. I know its still not every job gear progressing a week, and some people probably do play every job per week in some fashion, but the potential to really gear one job in about 6 weeks for a TT clear isn't bad either. Of course that's RNG willing. Let's not forget that a lot of gear is job swappable, such as allagan tank gear. You get the chest piece and both WAR and PLD get a boost. If your goal is pure AF+1 gear then yeah, still 2.5 months.

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I have PLD in line next for gearing up.

I don't know if its cause I played FFXI so long but the lockout on CT should be 72hrs not a week. Its not even the best gear. And people act like others are going to max gear one job in a week in CT, They may have some pretty damn good luck to do that.

I like playing all classes and being able to switch to any job whenever I'm needed or want. It took me many years to max out all my jobs and gear them in FFXI. I don't like having to make a new character to play another class to the max especially in a game with a job system that lets you level more than one job on a single character.

So going by 6 weeks to gear up one job, by the time you catch up the 3rd you falling behind again because the next patch should be coming.

Also Lots of people like myself would like to play more than one class and gear them up to the max it going to take time. There's 8 classes/jobs even if it did take you one week to max out a single job in gear that is at least 8 weeks of content to go through. And patches are suppose to happen every 2 1/2 to 3 months right? 8 jobs 8 weeks = 2 months. And with RNG I doubt very many people are going to be lucky enough to get max in a week.

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

Pretty sure you've got this backwards. The hardcores will have full i80 the week CT comes out with no lockout. The casuals will now be an entire gear set behind.

How exactly does no lockout help people who don't run CT 100 times a week?

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Damn whoever is planning on running CT 100 times a week needs to rethink their life.

They have 2 1/2 to 3 months before the next patch. If a casual can't obtain 1 gear set ilvl80 then maybe they should play another game.

I think most everything between casual vs hardcore is jealousy.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Gather, craft, help your FC, make new friends...

If you're only interested in doing one single thing quickly then why play a game designed to make you do everything slowly?

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I have 4 level 50 crafts and its a waste. I can make my friends gear for cheap but no real profit, And now that food is getting nerfed it could go both ways get rich or loss gil.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

True, but having bettergear goes a long way towards making content easier. Also, there are people that still mess things up no matter how often they've been in coil. One of my good RL friends and their static are still wiping to Turn 2 3 weeks after forming their static.

Well, it all depends on how many classes they want to gear at the same time. I for one would love to be able to play other classes in Turn 5, but currently I can't as my Myth/Coil loot is taken by my PLD. Also, when the games producer cites a Coil raiders motivation to due CT as "for vanity" it's very telling.

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True, but I also remember a time when end game crafting was 'useless' when Yoshi stated that BiS is all dungeon/tome gear. But now we see people spending millions on HQ 2 stars.... We have to look at the big picture. Skill and gear go hand in hand.

Because Yoshi states CT is for vanity, doesn't mean the gear is pointless. Saying lightning gear is for vanity is more appropriate. Since iLvl is all the rage these days, how is i80>i70 worthless and only useful for vanity? (rhetorical) With the tome cap increase going up to 450(possibly) it is now 2.5 months to fully gear in AF+1(still ridiculous for just one job honestly) but supplement that with coil and CT, you can have a very reasonably geared job in as little as 5-6 weeks. It doesn't tell us anything because he said that. He also told us WARs were fine and really powerful in coil. We really don't even know the full stipulations of said lockout. (I am leaning more to the 1 char/1 lockout which is still uber meh)

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

Pretty sure you've got this backwards. The hardcores will have full i80 the week CT comes out with no lockout. The casuals will now be an entire gear set behind.

How exactly does no lockout help people who don't run CT 100 times a week?

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The hardcores are already on level 90 gear... giving them level 80 gear for side jobs won't make a difference.

I think I'm an odd example of this. I have four jobs in DL + relic, the CT lockout hurts me badly because I'm so far behind the hardcores and level 80 is all I'd be able to get. I've been done Coil for three weeks and I've made it past T2 only one time, and got two pieces (one for main job and another for DRG, lol).

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

The hardcores are already on level 90 gear... giving them level 80 gear for side jobs won't make a difference.

I think I'm an odd example of this. I have four jobs in DL + relic, the CT lockout hurts me badly because I'm so far behind the hardcores and level 80 is all I'd be able to get. I've been done Coil for three weeks and I've made it past T2 only one time, and got two pieces (one for main job and another for DRG, lol).

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Nope you are right according to Yoshi P

"The rewards will be item level 80. While the equipment you can purchase with Allagan tomestones of mythology and the equipment you obtain from the Binding Coil of Bahamut are comparatively stronger, we'll be implementing the vanity system in patch 2.2 which will allow you to change the appearance of your character's equipment, so we hope you use it for the equipment you find in Crystal Tower. Also, keep in mind that the amount of players who have obtained upgraded relic weapons and mythology equipment or are challenging the Binding Coil still make up only a fraction of the entire population. There are many players who are waiting for the difficulty to be toned down a bit before they challenge the Binding Coil, so we'd like these players to have fun obtaining item level 80 equipment, getting past hard-mode Titan, and gradually progressing through the game".

"Also, keep in mind that the amount of players who have obtained upgraded relic weapons and mythology equipment or are challenging the Binding Coil still make up only a fraction of the entire population".

So those of us who are doing this is only a small fraction.

You are a very good example (Even better would be a player with one level 50). I don't try to degrade players on their playtime . Every week Casual players fall further and further behind. And Putting a lockout on lower level gear is just going to make it even worse.


Edit

You know with all these Crystal Tower threads I'm really surprised a DEV Member hasn't said anything. Maybe they are thinking about it and will do away with the week lockout and change it to 72hrs.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

You know with all these Crystal Tower threads I'm really surprised a DEV Member hasn't said anything. Maybe they are thinking about it and will do away with the week lockout and change it to 72hrs.

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Devil's advocate aside, I would like this.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

You know with all these Crystal Tower threads I'm really surprised a DEV Member hasn't said anything. Maybe they are thinking about it and will do away with the week lockout and change it to 72hrs.

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Sadly I don't think they care ; ; The way I see it as they have a set vision and that is that. They will make slight small changes but nothing like that...:( You never know though....

I just want to grind all night and day! I love playing with my teammates, but sometimes I just want to solo to get that uber rare item!

This is how I see this whole issue... CT should have been in the game at release. It was intended to be in the game at release so people don't have to spend all their time grinding two different 4 man dungeons for full Darklight as the only gear progression outside of Coils. Outside of needing to have CT in the game for release, I really wish people would stop complaining about a lack of content. MMO's don't launch with a ridiculous amount of content. If anyone is expecting this game to compete with the amount of content WoW or any MMO that has been out for years you are going to be disappointed every time you play a new MMO. Give the developers time to put in content instead of demanding it day 1.

I am a fan of the lockouts though, because it prevents people from beating the new content and getting all the best gear too quickly. Especially since they are using a token/tomes system in where you guaranteed to get SOMETHING in the form of loot for your time spent doing dungeons/raids. Hopefully they don't make CT 1 piece of gear per week, and instead make it 1 piece per boss per week. That seems more fair since most people have all classes on 1 character.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

You know with all these Crystal Tower threads I'm really surprised a DEV Member hasn't said anything. Maybe they are thinking about it and will do away with the week lockout and change it to 72hrs.

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In all seriousness, what would they even say?
Sorry, we messed up! CT won't have a lockout!
This just won't happen. I've never know SE to own up to a mistake (certainly not one so quickly, at least).
Sorry, we aren't going to change anything.
Waste of time, they may as well say nothing.
We're going to ease the lockout in future patches!
Waste of time, this is already a given.

The only response I could possible see is if they clarify whether or not is if it's a per boss lockout or a per class lockout.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Sadly I don't think they care ; ; The way I see it as they have a set vision and that is that. They will make slight small changes but nothing like that...:( You never know though....

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Well for the longest time, they kept telling us that 300 myth cap was there to stay, there would be no change. Then poof, all of a sudden they decided it was too low and 450 would be the new weekly target. Of course, they have wavered on this bit too....

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Originally Posted by EmSix

In all seriousness, what would they even say?
Sorry, we messed up! CT won't have a lockout!
This just won't happen. I've never know SE to own up to a mistake (certainly not one so quickly, at least).
Sorry, we aren't going to change anything.
Waste of time, they may as well say nothing.
We're going to ease the lockout in future patches!
Waste of time, this is already a given.

The only response I could possible see is if they clarify whether or not is if it's a per boss lockout or a per class lockout.

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There's 4 bosses so I'm sure it will be per boss kinda like how CoB is 4 bosses. Or at least it needs to be. If its 1 piece per boss per week that's up to 4 pieces a week that is fair enough. But if its 1 piece and your locked out on the other 3 bosses then its going to be BS.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Well for the longest time, they kept telling us that 300 myth cap was there to stay, there would be no change. Then poof, all of a sudden they decided it was too low and 450 would be the new weekly target. Of course, they have wavered on this bit too....

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450 is way to high if anything it should be like 350 each week, Until 2.2 comes out cause CoB turn6+ should have ilvl95 gear?