You should know that the text in the image is not refereeing to the same "support" as the one that the people are talking about in this threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Mooshywooshy
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11-28-2013, 07:43 AMLeon_Stormrage
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11-28-2013, 07:51 AMMooshywooshy
Am I wrong in understanding the bulk of the BRD story was based on Jehantel not supporting his comrades and thus they all died? He got bored with his support role and went off to do his own thing, thus all of his friends were murdered.
Either way could one not simply look at every single skill BRD as a job gets and realize... they are all support skills? Further more if we were to look at the bulk of the Archer skills one would see that a majority are support/dot.
Again I feel that by design it was meant to be support. At least /as support/ as support can possibly be in this game without being a waste of a dps spot. -
11-28-2013, 07:59 AMLeon_StormrageThe support of one Archer is stay out of the fighting lines and pew pew the enemy till they dead to clear the way :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mooshywooshy
Also it was supposed to be support but right after they decided to make it DPS and the result was an hybrid, so, a DPS with good utility. -
11-28-2013, 08:04 AMMooshywooshy
Well, as there are no (and possibly never will be) full support roles I think our idea of "Support" and "DPS with good utility" coincide. They are not the best DPS but have great ability to support the party through a variety of skills, as opposed to say a Lancer who has no intentions of supporting anyone ever. lol
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11-28-2013, 08:43 AMWiseWolfHoloI agree, right now fix classes not nerf others, like whm my god some of the skills I never even touch, such as cure 3 and medica so thus are useless. Please for the love of god give whm sacred prism back and remove some of its clutter. Also for whm plz make shroud a 1 min cd or 90 sec because their heal is way too strong, thus more agro and compared to a sch that has near infinite mana with atherflow or could even energy drain to get some back whm is just falling by the wayside. Even scholar with eos or even selene, since scholar heals different in terms of heal+negate they do not generate the hate of a whm.Quote:
Originally Posted by xcifux
Also, I blame the servers latency delay for partial reason of melee dps downfall. If the server actually was not in internet 3rd world Canada and picked up on positioning, melee dps could get another hit and keep their rotation going, but not being able to pull out at the last possible minute is really killing them and same can be said about mages. Bard only looks as if it is a top dps contender because the availability to run and gun. -
11-28-2013, 10:06 AMViridianaSilly game, how can I thin their lines if you nerf my DPS!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooshywooshy
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11-28-2013, 10:17 AMEtgar
The thing is that below ilevel 70 they shine, however after this point bard seems to fall behind in damage. The thing they have is strong over all dps, good aoe, good 1v1, good debuffs, them songs, silence, and movement.
I never get out dpsed by a bard, he has more utility however so still good to bring. -
11-28-2013, 03:51 PMLeon_StormrageExactly we are the nearest option of a support but we are not exactly a support role, The people in the forums is used to say "OMG you parsed 200 you are support you should have the same damage as a healer OMG OMG Bard OP Nerf it!!!" and this is totally wrong, I am not so bad about the Nerf, only because the time lost leveling lancer (I let it on lvl 27 because I saw it comming) for the rest we will see how it affects our dps...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooshywooshy
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11-28-2013, 05:53 PMGodzillaMagnum
How can people even say bards are support when the only support abilities they have are in their songs. By and large they are an offensive damage class. I wouldn't mind some bard nerfs once whatever other job class for archer comes out and we can choose to excel at DPS or go in favor of songs but right now I think bards are fine, especially since we are still out damaged by summoners by a huge margin and black mages are pretty close to our damage as well while offering AoE. If anything buff Melee dps and leave the rest alone.
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11-30-2013, 04:20 AMxcifux
All opinions are based on the pve model. Just understanding that simple fact means that there should be no nerfs involved. If anything buff other classes. Pve is about getting the job/encounter done. Nerfing any class will just make it harder for everyone to clear content. Yes if something is blatantly op it should be fixed, but all I see are issues other classes have that should be addressed.
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11-30-2013, 04:28 AMDankoAside from slow, stuns, +10% piercing damage for party and +10% HP healed for party?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooshywooshy
There are no pure DPS classes. They all have support options.
BRD is not a support job. It is not a hybrid. It is a DPS.
The problem with BRD is not and never was its support options relative to its DPS being out of balance. The only issue with BRD DPS is its mobility being out of balance with other DPS during fights that are unreasonably difficult for melees to maintain up time.
BRD is already one of, if not the weakest DPS class in the entire game. And it certainly is not the only one with strong support options. -
11-30-2013, 05:06 AMLaughingOctopus
For all the bards out there,
We actually do a lot of dmg. These DPS meters are simply rubbish. Flaming Arrow it self is not counted in FFXIV APP and its +80 dmg DoT. If a brd do their DoTs correctly with Buffs we might out match a BLM without even counting Flaming Arrow. A lot of people are saying BRD is faceroll job. A lot of people are simply idiots. You do not need people's approval. Chill guys. Remember that the idiot will need Ballad soon. In the end Nerfing BRD means Nerfing Coil's groups because 99.9% of groups has a brd in them. If the nerf is very bad they will change it back.
Cheers! -
11-30-2013, 05:09 AMDanko
The only thing causing a BRD to out match a BLM is a discrepancy in gear, skill or both.
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11-30-2013, 05:15 AMLaughingOctopus
I doubt it, the BLM that I am considering is extremely skilled. Also, he is 12/13 iLv90 too. High DPS on a BRD is not easy my friend but doable. Have faith :D!
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11-30-2013, 05:29 AMDanko
If he is being beaten by a BRD, he is not extremely skilled.
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11-30-2013, 05:37 AMDuelleThis should be preserved for posterity. I may not have done coil yet, but I have done that song and dance before. If the content is too punishing for melee or the melee design is a little too demanding you are going to get people stacking ranged. Call it easy-mode or simply efficient, but it does overtake other comps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phai
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11-30-2013, 10:56 AMlumpenhund
This is my best try out of like 10 attempts on the dummy tonight:
http://i.imgur.com/N0J9NO0.jpg
Please bear in mind that ffxiv app does not calculate critical hits on dot ticks and uses not exact dot numbers.
For my case the dot dmg numbers used are mostly on par with the dot dmg without criticals. -
11-30-2013, 06:05 PMMekhanaDon't work in Coil at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danko
This debuff was made for the drg in mind, having a bard around is a bonus. (we do piercing damage fyi)Quote:
Originally Posted by Danko
That's monk, a different job btw.Quote:
+10% HP healed for party
"Support DRG." http://i.imgur.com/ZIACZK5.jpg?1Quote:
BRD is already one of, if not the weakest DPS class in the entire game. And it certainly is not the only one with strong support options.
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12-06-2013, 05:51 AMMalachi_Draven
Meh, I don't mind the nerf. You people saying that Bards aren't OP, just aren't playing Bard correctly I guess. I'm consistently top DPS in my Coil group, and I can far too easily pull aggro off Tanks, especially in Turn 4. A little nerf wouldn't hurt me.
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12-06-2013, 08:12 AMSylari
A question. Is the "bards lowest DPS in the game" comment regarding only normal play? How do songless bards stack up by comparison to their competition?
Isn't Mantra a cross skill?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekhana
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12-06-2013, 08:20 AMViridianaIt is, but only MNK gets the +10% version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylari
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12-06-2013, 08:42 AMAllyrionlol this has been bothering me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
It's 20% for monks and 5% for everyone else. 10% was the beta (cross class) version or something. -
12-06-2013, 08:45 AMViridianaHuh. . .shows how much attention I pay to MNK. Should really level that up. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Allyrion
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12-06-2013, 08:47 AMAllyrionNot your fault. Everyone has been saying it for the past page!Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
EDIT:
My macro screams the tool tip every time I use it. So I enjoy spreading the knowledge. -
12-06-2013, 01:31 PMZellataGuess again...I'll give you a little hint - folks saying that BRD isn't OP simply have a competent BLM or SMN in their coil group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi_Draven
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12-06-2013, 02:20 PMAeser
Why is everyone calling Nerfs? Everyone is calling it a nerf when it's obvious a simple adjustment.
Players were using Bards in a way that far exceeded the expectations of SE and as such, they need to be toned down a little. As the patch notes said:
"Q6: Please tell us about the adjustment details on other jobs other than the dragoons.....We have made adjustments to certain cross class actions that the bards can set."
"Although we've noticed that certain jobs are favored in certain instances over others, we will continue making adjustments moving forward based on the idea that all jobs can contribute to encounters. In regards to bard, though their recast times are long, they are able to deal large amount of damage in a short period of time, and we feel that this is a bit too strong of an advantage for battles where enemies change phases."
Is there something I missed? Please give a link so that I may adjust where needed. It's bordering sad at this point where people are crying about the hypothetical "nerfs' coming to their beloved class.
In response the the Support Role/DPS role debacle. I see them as more of a support/dps role more than a pure dps role. No other class has a set of abilities that support the party in any way that comes close to the songs. I'm not talking about cross class abilities that some jobs have access to. I'm talking about some of your core abilities. A good example of your more support role is your LB. if you were a 'DPS/DD' class, then you'd have a damage dealing LB. Simple as that. -
12-06-2013, 02:29 PMPhaiNot to be rude or anything, but adjustments that either lower a class dps and/or utility is what the word "nerf" cover?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeser
And i dont see that u rage on the +10% damage adjustment to drg beeing talked about as a "boost".... oh crap, just saw, ur drg, my bad... -
12-06-2013, 03:12 PMSylariAn 'adjustment' that weakens a class' power is a nerf. That's kind of the definition of one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeser
I'd agree with you if there was a support role in FFXIV. There isn't though.Quote:
In response the the Support Role/DPS role debacle. I see them as more of a support role.
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12-06-2013, 03:13 PMAllyrionPeople who cried for bard nerfs right after launch were dumb cause it was way too early to start calling classes OP. They were wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phai
People crying about bard nerfs before knowing what adjustments are being made are just as bad. Maybe it's just me, but I think people should shut their mouth until they have all the information since you can't make any reasonable arguments based on speculation.
Yoshi's statements are very vague and it's grasping at straws to figure out what they're going to actually do to adjust bards. But lo and behold, everyone is up in arms to defend against the unspecified nerfs yet they can't really defend anything without knowing what they're going to do.
This just becomes an echo chamber between two groups. The people who are jealous of bards and the bards who feel threatened. Yet neither have anything really meaningful to say when in regards to the nerfs since they just don't know.
Do people really have to hinge on a few vague words about class balance with such emotion and reaction? You'll have every right to be upset when they release information about major nerfs. But in the scenario where the adjustments aren't bad or even an overall nerf at all, you made yourself upset for nothing and you helped propagated unnecessary fear and frustration. -
12-06-2013, 03:48 PMPhaiU have a good point, and i do agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allyrion
But to some limit i find a reason to try defend Brd, if its the adjustment comming toward the class or if its what community think, and makes of the class, well, i cant say, maybe little of both.
Time will show what happends to Brd, but for love of god, i hope they realy sort out the issue struggling classes have. -
12-06-2013, 04:37 PMAeserI've always considered a 'nerf' to be a severe reduction in some aspect of the class. not a minor tweak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phai
oh and not to be rude or anything, but i couldn't give two shits about the buff as i play my whm far more than my drg, and i'm currently lvling sch and archer. I dont see a need to have any sort of buff and i believe it's a bit wasted. all i ever wanted was an adjustment to the animation lock for my jump attacks namely my evasion jump to make it actually useful when you need it.
and why would i "rage" about something that's merely said in general about my class without knowing exactly was changed? That would be a waste of time as i have no idea what's actually being changed and how.
so trying to point out my class is really asinine, ignorant and sorry attempt to shift your frustration from an unknown adjustment to me.
BARDs will always be highly sought after for their support abilities, so a minor tweak wont change much -
12-06-2013, 04:41 PMAeseragreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Allyrion
10/10 -
12-06-2013, 04:58 PMPhaiWell u kinda went all out couse ppl refering to the adjustment as a nerf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeser
There is no Magic toward the fact that players will talk about the up's and Downs when there is said that a class will get adjusted in a negativ direction for that class. Some defend it, some argue against it. U tought it would be oki to target those who argue against it or did i miss something?
And u dont give a two shit about the buff, but u give enough shit to point out that brd is getting an adjustment, not a nerf, and People should stop talking about it? where u going whit this btw? -
12-06-2013, 05:48 PMAeserIf you took offense to my original comment, then i apologize as that's not the purpose. I'm not trying to be troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phai
it's more of: your over reacting to something you have no idea on the specifics of. If the adjustment is severe and truly a 'nerf' after you know all the details then by all means, voice your concern. But complaining about something that no one has any idea of, is simply a waste of time. your getting angry over nothing. It also sends a bad message to the developers. instead of articulating evidence, it's more of QQ over incomplete information.
I think SE made a mistake by posting something as vague as 'making adjustments.' I hope SE gives a bit more depth or detailed explanation when posting things that would impact a class. I'd also like to know what SE sees the Bard/Archer class as. Is it a pure DPS, DPS/Hybrid, or the Support version in this game. as stated before, i see Bard as a hybrid, since the songs are far too good to be otherwise.
In my opinion, it would also be better for the class if it wasn't dominating in lower tier content (as evident in near mandatory bard stacking or at least one in every group) and under performing in higher tier content. More linear progression seems better. Usefulness across all content, but not near-requirements.
If you truly believe the adjustments are unneeded, then lay down evidence. show parsers, videos, pics, something..anything to show the contrary. show SE that the community can articulate evidence and show the contrary to the model see.
I was voicing my opinion and not targeting anyone. I gave my reason for asking why people are calling it a nerf when the evidence calls it a minor adjustment, and i asked if there was evidence that i missed so that i may adjust my thinking based on more evidence. your the one being a smart ass about my comment by pointing out my class, as if that somehow dictated if i'm angry or wanting bard to be 'nerfed.'
I'm not concerned in the slightest about a buff/nerf to any of my classes until the details present themselves. If my drg gets this 10% dmg buff, then ok. if it gets a nerf, then ok. It's not going to affect me in the slightest as i enjoy playing drg as well as the other jobs/classes i'm playing. Even if my (for example) whm gets a massive 'nerf.' Then i'll continue playing it regardless. i enjoy it. -
12-06-2013, 05:56 PMPhaiWell i see ur point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeser
But not all in this thread is angry, and i was under the impression that talking about upcoming changes, good or bad, was what forums could be used for.
Anyway, some want to talk about it, share stuff and opinions, some dont want to, lets just agree its more than enough room to let everyone have a spot on the playground? :)
Edit; my respond was based on ur post before u added / edit'd it.
Reason i mention ur class, as u posted was that u, imo, went all out toward ppl talking about the "nerf", i might have missread ur post, but that was the reason for the class comment. Could say the same to Warriors in theire post's, no reason to be happy until patch go live, tho i think they having a good time talking and discussing the upcomming changes.
My point is that on forums it should be aloved to talk about an adjustment toward a class, good or bad, and People should not keep shut until the change goes live. its somewhat final resort to make a point, couse belive it or not, SE reads forums. -
12-06-2013, 06:13 PMViridianaI mostly agree with what you're saying. I agree that getting *emotional* over incomplete information is a waste of energy. However, when we're given incomplete information that could indicate an undesirable change, that's pretty much the only time we can try to bring to the dev's attention that the change may be unnecessary. This ties into your second point: the devs don't like to give out concrete information unless it's pretty much finalized. Thus, the vague-time is the best time for us to try to voice our concerns without having to wait for the next patch cycle. Unfortunately, it also means a lot of what gets said goes overboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeser
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12-06-2013, 11:12 PMVolux
In a recent interview with yoshi p he said that one of the bard abilities is getting moved to another class. We might be losing raging strikes...Check out Mr. Happy talk about it in his latest youtube vid... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1nvp...aUt-HBBZctO9cg
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12-07-2013, 04:07 AMjcw005
If you read what Yoshi-P said, it actually seems much more likely to me that Bards will lose Blunt Arrow.
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12-07-2013, 04:43 AMEasymodeX
Losing Blunt Arrow sounds asinine. Would be better to simply add a silence to another class.
Ohwell.
Either way it will be interesting to how SE ends up finalizing all the changes. A good indicator to see if players should expect major balance swings across the lifecycle of FF14. -
12-07-2013, 04:58 AMAkashiXIHe said in the first letter that we WON'T lose our silence. In fact, that's the only confirmed ability that we won't lose. Where's your source?Quote:
Originally Posted by jcw005