Market Wards, enough is enough

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

That and I love the shopping music in the wards :3 It like right from a 1950s comercial.

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OMG, I hate the elevator music lol. Give me something akin to Jeuno music please, reminds me of FFXI AH. :p

@ shai there was a team overhaul between those months. Also several teams from other games came over aswell. They got a team working on various part of the game. Also Battle changes were put forfront since everyything they want to add requires this change to happen first. Shai I suggest you look up game design and realise how stuff is done. There would be different teams working on an AH then player run companies. Some stuff takes longer to add then other stuff. And as I stated mmo are ON GOING. WHEN THESE CHANGES ARE PUT IN THERE WILL STILL BE MORE CHANGES OR ADDITIONS THAT IS HOW MMO ARE BY NATURE. THEY DO NOT "FIX" AN MMO THEN MOVE ON TO A NEW GAME.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

OMG, I hate the elevator music lol. Give me something akin to Jeuno music please, reminds me of FFXI AH. :p

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there is a difference plus honestly do you got to be negetive over flipping music. Jeez you guys. XD you crack me up on how silly you can be

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Originally Posted by Gracious

Considering that 26.3% voted for Auction House over NM's and Increased variety of leve's I'd say that is big. Players want an Auction House.

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You mean 23.8%? And fail to mention 40.6% wants more story-based quests and Side Quests?
That only 10.3% wanted Wards fix to take priority compared to 36.8% wanting content and 24.2% wanting battle fixes?

We could play with these numbers all day. We could also say that story-based quests & Side Quests that result in new gear, or entirely new systems (like Dungeons) will be on hold while we work on an Auction House system because why implement a new system of trading/selling gear when we'll just have to re-do much of the code every time we add new gear? So the majority should yield to the minority again? We should throw away something that works fine for something that makes us feel safe and secure like we're in another MMO we played?

Honestly, re-poll and I'm sure you'll find you are (still) in the minority.
Though I think a re-poll at this juncture would make Yoshida appear weak (again).

I would certainly be curious how many people want to delay content distribution for more months while they work on a system of menus that serve a function that already exists in the game. I"m guessing if they phrased it that way anyone who understood it (debatable these days) would say "No, thanks. I'll take content, please."

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

@ shai there was a team overhaul between those months. Also several teams from other games came over aswell. They got a team working on various part of the game. Also Battle changes were put forfront since everyything they want to add requires this change to happen first. Shai I suggest you look up game design and realise how stuff is done. There would be different teams working on an AH then player run companies. Some stuff takes longer to add then other stuff. And as I stated mmo are ON GOING. WHEN THESE CHANGES ARE PUT IN THERE WILL STILL BE MORE CHANGES OR ADDITIONS THAT IS HOW MMO ARE BY NATURE. THEY DO NOT "FIX" AN MMO THEN MOVE ON TO A NEW GAME.

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How do you know which teams work on what?

Please, pray tell, with all your game design expertise why did they lower the priority on AH & Jump?
Why are they still assessing the risk/value of doing it?

Could it possibly be that it's more important to have all hands on deck focus on shit that actually matters?

A TEAM WORKING ON THE AUCTION HOUSE IS A TEAM NOT WORKING ON SOMETHING.

I never claimed to know what that something was. I just presented some ideas. You can tell me what that thing is if you want. Stop arguing and start producing answers. Let's see all your countless years of working in the game industry has to bring to the table besides arguing every goddamn post that pops up on the forum.

Please, I invite you to enlighten us.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

there is a difference plus honestly do you got to be negetive over flipping music. Jeez you guys. XD you crack me up on how silly you can be

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LoL are you freakin serious? Wow, far be it from me to disagree with someone on public forums and post my thoughts. Did you even see the "lol" and the ":p"?

This had NOTHING to do with YOUR post directly, Kilta. I simply stated that I don't enjoy elevator music. Get over it. Fackin kids...

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Originally Posted by Mack

Meh, no matter what they do to the Market Wards they know they're unsustainable that is why they can't even decide on whether or not to scrap the idea of an AH completely. AH is coming sooner or later. Wards are fine, but too unnecessary and too much of nothing.

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You do know what the MW was from right? players used to sit out afk in various zones. It got laggy and casual players didn't have time or could keep they pc or consules on 24/7 trying to sell stuff.

Honestly AH's are not as fast as you guys are thinking. It could take weeks to sell stuff from an AH, or it can take months for an item to be put on the AH. You guys need to take account the flaws with an AH system also. Not just think of them with rose colored glasses. The only fix would be to scrap both and just have npc sell everything. Then get rid of the crafting and gathering classes.
Market wards are an interactive AH and they take the same amount of time to use.

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Originally Posted by Shai

I would certainly be curious how many people want to delay content distribution for more months while they work on a system of menus that serve a function that already exists in the game. I"m guessing if they phrased it that way anyone who understood it (debatable these days) would say "No, thanks. I'll take content, please."

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Content is not delayed in this instance because there are different teams for specific things. Let's say the AH was in the favor of the majority, then the specific team who takes care of market wards functionality/changes would shift from working on that to an AH in terms of priority.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

LoL are you freakin serious? Wow, far be it from me to disagree with someone on public forums and post my thoughts. Did you even see the "lol" and the ":p"?

This had NOTHING to do with YOUR post directly, Kilta. I simply stated that I don't enjoy elevator music. Get over it. Fackin kids...

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I was joking around :P XD << my anime laugh emoticon. Learn to take a joke. :) Or ima be forced yo poke your tummy >:) (too much surgar today :P)

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I was joking around :P XD << my anime laugh emoticon. Learn to take a joke. :) Or ima be forced yo poke your tummy >:) (too much surgar today :P)

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Away with you, mew-mew-weeaboo.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Content is not delayed in this instance because there are different teams for specific things. Let's say the AH was in the favor of the majority, then the specific team who takes care of market wards functionality/changes would shift from working on that to an AH in terms of priority.

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Different teams work on battle than work on Company do they not?

There is a battle team. It's currently working on battle. There is a hold on content that will use battle. Why are we accepting there won't be a hold on content that will use the AH? Where is the logic?

I'm not a game designer so explain it to me other than saying "there's more than one team."
I know that. I said it myself multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Shai

How do you know which teams work on what?

Please, pray tell, with all your game design expertise why did they lower the priority on AH & Jump?
Why are they still assessing the risk/value of doing it?

Could it possibly be that it's more important to have all hands on deck focus on shit that actually matters?

A TEAM WORKING ON THE AUCTION HOUSE IS A TEAM NOT WORKING ON SOMETHING.

I never claimed to know what that something was. I just presented some ideas. You can tell me what that thing is if you want. Stop arguing and start producing answers. Let's see all your countless years of working in the game industry has to bring to the table besides arguing every goddamn post that pops up on the forum.

Please, I invite you to enlighten us.

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I did suggest you loom into game development. You can't have too many teams working on the same stuff. And again different teams are working on different things.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Different teams work on battle than work on Company do they not?

There is a battle team. It's currently working on battle. There is a hold on content that will use battle. Why are we accepting there won't be a hold on content that will use the AH? Where is the logic?

I'm not a game designer so explain it to me other than saying "there's more than one team."
I know that. I said it myself multiple times.

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Because it is it's own separate team and when it's finished, it's finished. They don't have to wait on anything other than the date they implement it. AH /=/ Content. It's a market system. It doesn't have anything to do with Battle, Company, Story, or Side missions.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I did suggest you loom into game development. You can't have too many teams working on the same stuff. And again different teams are working on different things.

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Hey thanks for explaining it in exactly the way I asked you not to explain it.

And again 1 team working on AH means 1 team not working on something else.

Not to mention no one has given a good reason why changing basic functions of economy wouldn't stall or hold off release of content that also adds changes to the economy - much like battle has held off content that uses battle.

See how my logic is defeating you and your repetition is annoying me?
You could win this battle if you presented answers to the questions I'm asking.

Go ahead and continue to say "different teams exist" ad infinitum though.
Cause that's how debates/arguments/conversations work. Repetition, caps and use of BOLD.

Sooner or later you will defeat me with talented use of idiocy and frustration. Mine or yours, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Because it is it's own separate team and when it's finished, it's finished. They don't have to wait on anything other than the date they implement it. AH /=/ Content. It's a market system. It doesn't have anything to do with Battle, Company, Story, or Side missions.

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Except all those things produce new items - and new items will need to be listed on the AH.

So while teams may be creating new content and new items, why are you guaranteeing they will implement rather than wait for Auction House?

Anyone can answer. Not just you two. Someone must know.

And I'd like to add...

There is no "Auction House" team. You are both still pretending that 1 team working on Auction House does not equal 1 team not working on some other thing that might be more important or useful or easier to implement or faster.

I'm done repeating. Please answer some of my questions.

@ shia you can not have too many people working on the same stuff. For example Ants, you have several types of ants that work on different parts of the colony. Soldiers protect the queen and the colony, then workers help construct tunnels, then several breed with the queen, then you have the ones that gather food. By you logic you want everyone to either get food then make tunnels. Which can't work like that.

When you play a game there are several departments. When you watch the credits. Same for movies etc. MMO are ongoing projects. You have battle devs who maintain everything battle related. Then teams who design content such as dungeons. Then you have teams who handle economy stuff. Each team can only work on the stuff they are good at since it is different coding and mechanics. The reason stiff was slow at first was due to yoshida taking over and reorganzing everyone to do the stuff their good at as well as adding more people from other games to give them more people to do stuff their good at.

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Originally Posted by Shai

And I'd like to add...

There is no "Auction House" team. You are both still pretending that 1 team working on Auction House does not equal 1 team not working on some other thing that might be more important or useful or easier to implement or faster.

I'm done repeating. Please answer some of my questions.

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actually read our replies you twit. a games economy is a different beast then a games battle system. Similar to a cake maker and a fry cook. You not going to a sushi bar to order a cake..... and you wouldn't order a burger from a bakery. Learn to get with the program and look this up, any college as this info online.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i think its fine that they want to keep and improve retainers
but i have to see anyone answer the one big question
what would actually happen if this game grew to 500,000+ players, at least half using those retainers..... would you just keep adding more and more wards?
an AH UI itself seems to be so much easier for a developer to manipulate than having to deal with market wards from the very start!

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i was thinking about the same issue. and i think that will be the time when they will have to implement an AH.
Having every player X 2 as a rendered character (retainer) in the wards just doenst make sense at all. And especially not considering the engine cant even handle more then a hand full of npcs/pcs at a time anyways.

i hope they having good solutions towards a system that can be reached no matter in which city you are since that makes it really annoying and people will always stay in one city where everything happens. An all-over AH would be a good solution. That's why they implemented it in ffxi. Very late but they did it.

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Originally Posted by Shai

And I'd like to add...

There is no "Auction House" team. You are both still pretending that 1 team working on Auction House does not equal 1 team not working on some other thing that might be more important or useful or easier to implement or faster.

I'm done repeating. Please answer some of my questions.

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If there were someone working on an AH, yes, there would be. It's the same people who would be working on the current market system. If one team is working on better functionality on the market wards or creating an AH, it wouldn't take away from anything else because they were not there to begin with.

You're a smart girl/guy. You can't figure it out? Yoshi even said himself he still divides the development team up to focus on their respected areas of content and/or systems as Tanaka did. The only thing that was lacking was communication. Between each other and especially the community.

So, while collecting what the players want most between all of the systems and potential content, they are taking advice on what each team should focus on. AH low in the polls? That doesn't mean the team in place for developing that goes anywhere else. That's just a hint that they should be working on ward functionality before creating new market systems.

Here we go!!!!!!!!!
I'm off on a whirlwind quoting adventure!

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Originally Posted by Shai

I don't want to start an argument about it and I know multiple teams work on multiple things, but someone is animating jump could just as well be animating me summon Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Um, no, I even said [I know there are different teams]. Are you being sarcastic? The fact remains though that "a different team" would have to make a functional Auction House, not a brand new team. What would we sacrifice...?

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Originally Posted by Shai

How do you know which teams work on what?

A TEAM WORKING ON THE AUCTION HOUSE IS A TEAM NOT WORKING ON SOMETHING [ELSE].

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Originally Posted by Shai

Different teams work on battle than work on Company do they not?
...
I'm not a game designer so explain it to me other than saying "there's more than one team."
I know that. I said it myself multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Shai

You could win this battle if you presented answers to the questions I'm asking.

Go ahead and continue to say "different teams exist" ad infinitum though.

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...is this enough fng times to get through your head, Kilta, that I know there are multiple teams? Do you want to say it one more time to make yourself feel smart?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

actually read our replies you twit. a games economy is a different beast then a games battle system. Similar to a cake maker and a fry cook. You not going to a sushi bar to order a cake..... and you wouldn't order a burger from a bakery. Learn to get with the program and look this up, any college as this info online.

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I read all your replies. They all said multiple teams work to protect the queen ant or some stupid shit. You aren't explaining to me AT ALL why a team working on an Auction House (that the game already has in the form of a Market Ward) isn't a team that could be more useful working on something else, nor have you explained in any way shape or form why they wouldn't halt production of new items while working on the Auction House.

I have already ADMITTED I'm not an expert. The burden of proof is on you.

Your claim is that working on an Auction House would not hinder production of something else useful, nor would it hamper the flow of new items/recipes due to "different teams." Prove this.

My claim is that an Auction House "team" would be developers not working on another project (not sure how to prove something as common sense as this) and that we might delay content that includes new items & recipes based on evidence of creating a new battle system.

I presented my proof and evidence and admitted I'm not a developer. Now, prove to me why I'm wrong - and I probably am - but don't tell me to go look it up myself on any old college website. Are you or are you not an expert?

(If not STFU and let someone answer who is).

So.

they asked everyone what they wanted, they wanted a auction house
and now they arent gonna do it ?

the ward system is HORRIBLE, and thats why everyone want an auction house, how many polls is needed ?
i thought they started working on an AH after the poll, but it seems nothing is started. that means it would take several months for it to even be implemented.

so much players will be lost over this :(

Even the Icon Creator of Black Ops is bugged as hell, but they aren't gonna do anything about it and the players aren't complaining.

wait, why did I write that.

Ah yea. Moving on... that thread.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Why? lol. The MW's are in essence an AH system. It does lack only a few features that an AH has, most people do assume it's a quick miracle fix yet ignore the similarities of the system, thus why everyone say it's not a quick fix.

MW only lacks a delivery/storage/buy from search system..that's about it. Anything else would further the argument that people feel an AH is a quick fix.

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Lacking the ability to buy and sell from a search feature is what I would like to see implemented into the game. I can not believe that so many players told SE they wanted this and we're being totally disregarded for "improved" stability for retainers. I have waited, support, and cheered SE on while they have been redoing functions of the game. Players voted for more content and an Auction House in large numbers and now we hear they aren't even working on an Auction House. I'm absolutely disheartened now.

@ shai I gave you examples. read them.
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1 the market team ONLY works on the market system.
2 the battle team ONLY works on the battle system
3 the market team CAN NOT work on the battle system and vis versa.
4 the reason is there is different coding and machanics.

is that easier for you to read now? Will you stfu now?

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

If there were someone working on an AH, yes, there would be.

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No kidding. That team would either be a team previously "the market ward" team or made up of new individuals working on other teams - blah blah blah - so in other words this "AH Team" would not be working on something else. As I said. They have to come from somewhere. They have to stop or finish something. They aren't just magicking up new teams from thin air.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

It's the same people who would be working on the current market system. If one team is working on better functionality on the market wards or creating an AH, it wouldn't take away from anything else because they were not there to begin with.

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Except one could take 2 months and 1 could take a whole year to implement. We could not have a search feature and the wards could be crashing every 20 minutes. Instead, this "team" is fixing all that. You say this is a good thing or a bad thing? Market Ward functionality does exist because this team did not transform into "Auction House Team: ASSEMBLE!" They did the job they were originally assigned. So far we're on the same page.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

You're a smart girl/guy. You can't figure it out? Yoshi even said himself he still divides the development team up to focus on their respected areas of content and/or systems as Tanaka did. The only thing that was lacking was communication. Between each other and especially the community.

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Figure what out? That there are separated teams? No, I think I proved that I understand that well.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

So, while collecting what the players want most between all of the systems and potential content, they are taking advice on what each team should focus on. AH low in the polls? That doesn't mean the team in place for developing that goes anywhere else. That's just a hint that they should be working on ward functionality before creating new market systems.

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There was no team in charge of developing one. An AH doesn't exist and until that poll there would be no reason to make an AH or have a team that develops an AH. You just said we're talking about the Market Ward team. They would stop working on the Wards, or divide their efforts, and be working on an Auction House. I thought we just established that.

You don't answer why implementation of new gear & recipes would or wouldn't be on hold while an entirely new system of how to process and transfer said "new content" between players was being developed. That is why we haven't had any new content that involves battle - what leads you to believe this would be different with items?

What makes items different? I'm not a programmer, but I appreciate you think I'm smart so lay it on me.
I know I can wrap my brain around it if someone tries to explain it.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

@ shai I gave you examples. read them.
[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]
1 the market team ONLY works on the market system.
2 the battle team ONLY works on the battle system
3 the market team CAN NOT work on the battle system and vis versa.
4 the reason is there is different coding and machanics.

is that easier for you to read now? Will you stfu now?

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No, because all you say is there are different teams. It's redundant and monotonous.
I'll just talk to Bruce and anyone else who wants to actually answer the question.

Thanks for trying, though. You are free to go.

And i can tell you didn't read the ant anology as it is the perfect example of a developement team. I suggest you read it this time. You canb not have a soldier ant hunting food..., or a tunnel builder protecting the queen. That is not their purpose.

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Originally Posted by Shai

No, because all you say is there are different teams. It's redundant and monotonous.
I'll just talk to Bruce and anyone else who wants to actually answer the question.

Thanks for trying, though. You are free to go.

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the teams are seperated for a reason as each part they work on is coded differently. They can not work on coding that they are not good at. Get it know?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

And i can tell you didn't read the ant anology as it is the perfect example of a developement team. I suggest you read it this time. You canb not have a soldier ant hunting food..., or a tunnel builder protecting the queen. That is not their purpose.

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Different teams. Got it.

Carry on.

Edit:
Wait did I imply that soldiers should make an Auction House?
If so, I apologize, Kilta. I see why you're confused.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

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the teams are seperated for a reason as each part they work on is coded differently. They can not work on coding that they are not good at. Get it know?

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You want to sling some insults?

You want to take this off the forum so I can tell you how I really feel?

Stop replying to me with your useless garbage and let someone who actually knows what they're talking about do it. I asked for game development to be described to me, not an analogy to your kindergarten ant farm.

Carry -the fark- on, Kilta.
If I wanted answers and insults a two year old could provide I have children for that.

I hope you read this before it's modded.

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Originally Posted by Shai

You don't answer why implementation of new gear & recipes would or wouldn't be on hold while an entirely new system of how to process and transfer said "new content" between players was being developed. That is why we haven't had any new content that involves battle - what leads you to believe this would be different with items?

What makes items different? I'm not a programmer, but I appreciate you think I'm smart so lay it on me.
I know I can wrap my brain around it if someone tries to explain it.

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First of all, this is an extremely silly question, but here is your answer. Implementing a market system (this includes an AH) after the implementation of items is doing things backwards. Why would you produce goods with no game plan as to how to distribute them? One is more relevant than the other and that's not the items. It's how it's distributed.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Different teams. Got it.

Carry on.

Edit:
Wait did I imply that soldiers should make an Auction House?
If so, I apologize, Kilta. I see why you're confused.

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your the confused brat not me :/

You asking why can't the auction house team work on something more importent and suggested player comanpies. I replied to this, it is because it is a different team and a different set of coding and machanics.
The auction house team would not understand the coding for the player companies. Please tell me that this is better understood and your not this stupid to understand that different teams is the answer to your question.

Much like a resteraunt Were you have a baker for cakes, a soup maker for soups, and a dinner maker. (the exacty names are hard to spell) The soup maker is not good at making dinners. Nor is the dinner maker good at baking cakes. But they all work together to make a good resteraunt.

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Originally Posted by Shai

You want to sling some insults?

You want to take this off the forum so I can tell you how I really feel?

Stop replying to me with your useless garbage and let someone who actually knows what they're talking about do it. I asked for game development to be described to me, not an analogy to your kindergarten ant farm.

Carry -the fark- on, Kilta.
If I wanted answers and insults a two year old could provide I have children for that.

I hope you read this before it's modded.

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You the one getting on my case and not reading. >< Or realising 1+1=2

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

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Funny thing about this 1 was that initially they pretty much made the same point and were seemingly in agreement. Then this happened = D

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Originally Posted by Leeloo

Funny thing about this 1 was that initially they pretty much made the same point and were seemingly in agreement. Then this happened = D

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ya lets gang up on the person who is actually being smart for once and trying to help a brat understand on why the teams do not work in other areas.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

First of all, this is an extremely silly question, but here is your answer. Implementing a market system (this includes an AH) after the implementation of items is doing things backwards. Why would you produce goods with no game plan as to how to distribute them? One is more relevant than the other and that's not the items. It's how it's distributed.

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Isn't that what I'm saying?

Items would be on hold in favor of working on their method of distribution.
That's the same as saying "content" will be on hold until their is a working Auction House.

I swear that's what I've been saying this whole 30-page, long time.
Dragged on and on by the incessant rambling of someone I won't name and my inability to ignore them.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

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Yeah, I know this already, Vedis.

The thing was I was hoping she'd put her money (knowledge) where her mouth is.
Supposedly she knows how to design games, but can't explain to the whiny cry baby brat that I am such a simple thing like "why items would be implemented before a working auction house." I thought I may get a real answer. I should have just ignored it from the start.

My bad. Can anyone answer, though? Haha.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Isn't that what I'm saying?

Items would be on hold in favor of working on their method of distribution.
That's the same as saying "content" will be on hold until their is a working Auction House.

I swear that's what I've been saying this whole 30-page, long time.
Dragged on and on by the incessant rambling of someone I won't name and my inability to ignore them.

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Normal people understand that there is an order to priority
and low priority means low priority(which is obviously what the AH is)

if they have 10 teams to work on stuff, i bet they can easily find 10 things to work on better then an AH still
and thats not discounting the fact at least 1 of those teams is a graphics building team(anything that has new animations/graphics etc to add requires this)

stuff is more important, same reason jump is on the back burner

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Originally Posted by Shai

Yeah, I know this already, Vedis.

The thing was I was hoping she'd put her money (knowledge) where her mouth is.
Supposedly she knows how to design games, but can't explain to the whiny cry baby brat that I am such a simple thing like "why items would be implemented before a working auction house." I thought I may get a real answer. I should have just ignored it from the start.

My bad. Can anyone answer, though? Haha.

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she doesnt know how to design games
she just likes to talk alot
and i recently found out who she was on Zam before she got banned there :) so it all came together at that point