Auto-crit buffs have pushed melee too far ahead of Casters (and MCH)

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There's mechanics in every fight last tier that could push melee out of range, but yes its not as severe as it used to be when the boss hitboxes were smaller and more mechanics pushed melee out more frequently. Either way, I agree that atm the disparity between ranged and melee is too wide.

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I'm gonna be real honest with you. If there's a mechanic that make a melee DPS lose 1 or 2 GCD. That's an L but nothing compared to have 8% to 10% DPS lead. Also, this tier. That situation doesn't exist. They have 0 downtime period.

Also, goal isn't to put everyone at melee DPS but definitely a 3% difference only would be much better. 8% to 10% is too much and selfish caster + ranged aka BLM and MCH need to be on par with Samurais.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Here's my hot-take. Everyone should get the Auto-Crit treatment, or No one does.

Either/or. There are players who like non-fluctuating performances for less DPS variance, or how I like to call it " Boring/Bland/Stale " numbers cause that's what Auto-Crit did. Supposedly to address parsers that make up a literal 1% of the player-base since it relogs loggin on a 3rd party website.

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Sorry, but if you don't use a parser, you don't even realize if you're making a critical hit or not (except when you put the giga shield at the whole party). So call it "boring", but you don't even realize its been removed because you are too busy doing your rotation and doing the mechanics, in my opinion it is senseless. And even more so if they remove the randomly fluctuation decided by a server that does not consider the player's skill, so it's not even rewarding, I don't see anything wrong with it. Then clearly if you take away my experience in the gameplay by simplifying it, it is another matter (and here we return to kaiten mess), but in itself removing bad randomness is only good.
And I'll tell you more, the critical hit in my opinion should be predictable, based on the actions the player takes to be truly rewarding, perhaps adding depth to the gameplay and putting combos between the skills of all the players forcing the player to think about the entire party and not only to himself to have the maximum performance.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

I'm gonna be real honest with you. If there's a mechanic that make a melee DPS lose 1 or 2 GCD. That's an L but nothing compared to have 8% to 10% DPS lead. Also, this tier. That situation doesn't exist. They have 0 downtime period.

Also, goal isn't to put everyone at melee DPS but definitely a 3% difference only would be much better. 8% to 10% is too much and selfish caster + ranged aka BLM and MCH need to be on par with Samurais.

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Hold up, you raise an interesting point.
What's the purpose of range tax if Melee plays like ranged?

It's been something normal since years now that melees should have more damage because ranged can have full uptime.
The debate before was that since melee are depending on uptime strats, they should always have a fair bonus to not fall behind.

But in this tier and DSR, there's no such thing as melee uptime strats.
Melee uptime strats are naturally used due to the boss hitbox size.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Hold up, you raise an interesting point.
What's the purpose of range tax if Melee plays like ranged?

It's been something normal since years now that melees should have more damage because ranged can have full uptime.
The debate before was that since melee are depending on uptime strats, they should always have a fair bonus to not fall behind.

But in this tier and DSR, there's no such thing as melee uptime strats.
Melee uptime strats are naturally used due to the boss hitbox size.

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Not only do they do more damage, but they also get better survivability tools (bloodbath for example), not to mention some of them have a better defense stat through their gear to compensate the "risk" they take by going into close combat.

It doesn't make sense anymore given the direction the game is heading with those giant hitboxes.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

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My point was to take every role into their own categorie.

What I did for my "calculation" was to compare what is comparable. You can't compare Melee with a Caster for exemple, that wouldn't make any sense.

Every classe should be balanced but combat need to justify this balance, and of course they need to be balanced between each other to avoid an overpowered class. I didn't talk about combat or uptime at all. What I did was to talk on an average max value of DPS of each class, and keep those value inside their own role, then calculate the "Missing potency" over time.

I didn't talk about the composition of the full party so I kinda don't understand why you're bring this up by using my post.

"The issue is the outdated mentality that melee needs about 10% extra damage because of melee downtime when they are making fights with no melee downtime."

Melee aren't exactly that all mighty. Of course, Melee DPS is bigger today, but I remember a era where BLM was into the top DPS, and getting even higher DPS than melee.

What you want to adjust is giving potency according to "Tax" and balance it around the Savage raid Tier. Therefore, there will be no MCH/PLD/WAR Locked out of PF, no more 2 Melee/1 Cast/1 Ranged, etc etc....

As of today, there is issue with P8S DPS check that can't be reached by using certain composition of group. (Refer to my last post, because this is based on the DPS of each class.)

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Hold up, you raise an interesting point.
What's the purpose of range tax if Melee plays like ranged?

It's been something normal since years now that melees should have more damage because ranged can have full uptime.
The debate before was that since melee are depending on uptime strats, they should always have a fair bonus to not fall behind.

But in this tier and DSR, there's no such thing as melee uptime strats.
Melee uptime strats are naturally used due to the boss hitbox size.

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Actually, 2 pictures are worth a thousand words.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...27/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...65/unknown.png

I used to be a main melee in SB. Neo Exdeath hitbox was quite awful and you had several downtimes as a Melee. The tax was legit during that time.

Now, P8S second boss. That's one boi with a huge hitbox. No positional. Limitless Defamation can never be on the last row. All mechanics resolves on North. You can technically get screwed if you get the one tower that is on the third row edge. That's 1 in a 24 I believe.

There another boss that wants to say hi and it's Omega Prime. Whenever you'd deal with Hello World, Melees would lose a ton of uptime. Now, this guy, both High Concepts the boss is invulnerable :) Because they specifically design fights for melee to not lose uptime now. But they keep the tax on.

I know this isn't about the auto crit/DH subject. But by the Twelves knows this bs.

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Originally Posted by Ggwppino

Sorry, but if you don't use a parser, you don't even realize if you're making a critical hit or not (except when you put the giga shield at the whole party).

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Do you not look at your flying text? Its VERY distinct when you get a crit or a DH+Crit. Playing samurai pre 6.1 I always looked up at the flying text and it was extremely satisfying to get those 80k+ crits. Seeing the auto crits during last tier barely do 28k was disheartening. All that build up which was the core of the jobs design only to see their big hits turn into wet noodles.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Hold up, you raise an interesting point.
What's the purpose of range tax if Melee plays like ranged?

It's been something normal since years now that melees should have more damage because ranged can have full uptime.
The debate before was that since melee are depending on uptime strats, they should always have a fair bonus to not fall behind.

But in this tier and DSR, there's no such thing as melee uptime strats.
Melee uptime strats are naturally used due to the boss hitbox size.

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This is the crux of the problem, melee don’t do 10% more damage because melee are better they are supposed to do 10% more damage to compensate for downtime, instead the hit box is so big and the boss becomes untargetable during the tiers only potential downtime mechanic so they basically just become phys ranged with a damage up buff

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Do you not look at your flying text? Its VERY distinct when you get a crit or a DH+Crit. Playing samurai pre 6.1 I always looked up at the flying text and it was extremely satisfying to get those 80k+ crits. Seeing the auto crits during last tier barely do 28k was disheartening. All that build up which was the core of the jobs design only to see their big hits turn into wet noodles.

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uhhm no, im just busy playing lol