So, can we just ban damage meters already.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

As for how communities go, haha nah. ESO the damage meters aren't even against ToS, and SWTOR community is just toxic by default. FF14 is like running through a flower garden.

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The only other MMO I spent a lot of time in is WoW, and at least in low level dungeons I don't remember there being NEARLY as many insecure tryhards looking to one up new players.

Once you get into high end content and mistakes can cause wipes then every MMO community is far more on edge, and at least there it can be semi-justified.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

Ask people to carry their weight or telling DPS they aren't doing enough damage and need to do more does not mean you are using "damage meters". Also, it isn't harassment.

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If you're actually looking to improve the run then offer advice. "UR Not carrying ur weight!" is a completely useless thing to throw out there. You know it's useless and you know why you're doing it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Again, it was like a level 40 something MSQ dungeon and my first run. I died to a mechanic; the boss died anyways; the other DPS decided to get condescending because he saw my damage was lower than the healers.

Specific advice I'm fine with. Just throwing a "you suck" out there I'm not fine with; and I feel like the only reason anyone would even mention damage in a 40 something MSQ dungeon is to insult someone.

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Here is specific advice then: Communicate that you're new and would welcome any advice to your party. Dont hide behind "I'm on PS4, I cant chat" and then complain about a community that you're not even engaging in.

You will meet unpleasent people - in Eorzea, in real life, everywhere. But its not parsers that make them unpleasent people and as I pointed out already: You dont even need a parser to point out that someone isnt playing very good. I dont know if that guy had a parser or not but he certainly didnt need one to tell that you died and he could have just as easly gone on about how bad you've been doing for not doing mechanics correctly.
You're seriously targeting the wrong crowd here...

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If you're actually looking to improve the run then offer advice. "UR Not carrying ur weight!" is a completely useless thing to throw out there. You know it's useless and you know why you're doing it.

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At a certain point someone shouldnt have been told how to play their job anymore. You are responsible for that yourself. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but no one should have to explain anything to anyone past level 30. Its nice when people to do, but telling someone that they need to improve, even if you dont (or maybe cant) tell them how to do that should be enough for that person to look into their playstyle.

Personally I've given friendly advice that got ignored or responded to with "you dont pay my sub!!!" so often that I'm trying to refrain from it by now and either finish the run in silence or initiate a vote-kick to remove the person who didnt learn how to play their job after 60+ levels. Those people will never know that they're actually a burden to everyone else - I ask you... is that really better?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Here is specific advice then: Communicate that you're new and would welcome any advice to your party. Dont hide behind "I'm on PS4, I cant chat" and then complain about a community that you're not even engaging in.

You will meet unpleasent people - in Eorzea, in real life, everywhere. But its not parsers that make them unpleasent people and as I pointed out already: You dont even need a parser to point out that someone isnt playing very good. I dont know if that guy had a parser or not but he certainly didnt need one to tell that you died and he could have just as easly gone on about how bad you've been doing for not doing mechanics correctly.
You're seriously targeting the wrong crowd here...

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The dungeon flags new people for the party, so they don't need anyone's help realizing that someone in the run doesn't know the mechanics. They could explain the mechanics before every boss fight if they really cared, but, especially if the new person is just DPS, they generally just want to move. Me asking for an explanation before every fight would be more annoying than useful in these low level bum rush dungeons.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point. It's clear as day these people aren't doing anything for the "benefit of the run," I don't think I've ever seen a MSQ group wipe. It's just insecure people who like to trash on new players. The new player asking for help isn't going to result in anything good from these people.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

At a certain point someone shouldnt have been told how to play their job anymore. You are responsible for that yourself. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but no one should have to explain anything to anyone past level 30. Its nice when people to do, but telling someone that they need to improve, even if you dont (or maybe cant) tell them how to do that should be enough for that person to look into their playstyle.

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If you don't have any useful advice to offer, though, then what was the point of calling the person out? Trying to see if you can make them uncomfortable enough to stop playing the game altogether? Pissy and condescending little comments are useless; if they're all you have to offer then you should probably just not speak.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The dungeon flags new people for the party, so they don't need anyone's help realizing that someone in the run doesn't know the mechanics. They could explain the mechanics before every boss fight if they really cared, but, especially if the new person is just DPS, they generally just want to move. Me asking for an explanation before every fight would be more annoying than useful in these low level bum rush dungeons.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point. It's clear as day these people aren't doing anything for the "benefit of the run," I don't think I've ever seen a MSQ group wipe. It's just insecure people who like to trash on new players. The new player asking for help isn't going to result in anything good from these people.

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It is simply polite to tell people that you're new and would like them to give you advice. Dont just expect them to spell stuff out for you just because the game informed them that there is a new character in the run, because that can be an alt aswell. Or it might be someone who doesnt want an explantion either for blind running purposes or because they're confident enough that they can figure out mechanics on the go - lets be honest: most dungeon boss fights are super simple.
Your party also wont know if you're running a certain dunegon on a class that you just picked up or havent played in a while.
I'm not advicing you to ask for an explantion before every boss-fight, I'm advicing you to greet your party at the start of the dungeon with "Hey, first time doing this, any pointers would be appericiated!" so they know to actually give them.
In my experience communication with your party is key and can prevent or solve fights.
You expect other people to explain things to you - is it really that unreasonble that someone might expect you to ask for that explantion?

I have seen MSQ-dungeons wipe btw. Often enough even after explantions had been given.

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Originally Posted by Renato

Oh wow, I didn't know this. I did a Ravel run last week as a Tank and we had trouble clearing the second boss because the DPS (a BLM and RDM) wasn't all that good. It took forever to clear the bosses that run as well as the normal pulls. I guess the healer was using some kind of parser because he mentioned that I was doing around the same amount or more as the DPS jobs were and gave the amounts. Granted, he didn't come off as malicious in any way. He just kind of said, you all need better gear, you should be doing a lot more damage.

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That's something you can tell just by how slow a fight is going and using examine, no need for a parser. Unless they mentioned a number or parser specifically there is no point reporting.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If you don't have any useful advice to offer, though, then what was the point of calling the person out? Trying to see if you can make them uncomfortable enough to stop playing the game altogether? Pissy and condescending little comments are useless; if they're all you have to offer then you should probably just not speak.

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While its not presented in the best way and I would always encourage people to say things in a neutral tone at the very least - "You should do a bit more research on your job and rotation" for example - it makes them at least aware of the possibility that they're doing things wrong so they can sit down, look up a guide or look at their tooltips, ask around for advice, practise a bit on a dummy and actually improve. Bonus: most jobs are actually way more fun when played correctly!

Its not an ideal way to make someone aware of their shortcomings and it should be reported as harrassment, yes. But anyone who does care about not being carried while probably look into their job and improve afterwards - there are nicer ways of saying it and they should be encouraged over insults. But even those can lead to someone improving, if that person cares about their performance at all.

Is it even possible for a game’s developers to completely stop all third party software from interacting with the game? Surely people could just find ways around them?

I feel like if PS4 players had their own way to see actual DPS numbers and compare them to others outside of having to rely on third party websites, there’d be less of an issue with this. Stone, Sky, Sea can tell you if you can hit the minimum DPS required for a piece of content, but it’s difficult to say ‘my DPS is good/bad/average’. Maybe if they had some kind of feedback like that then there’d be less issue with players having ‘low dps’, because they can be made aware of it before someone is forced to do it themselves. Maybe like having Stone, Sky, Sea show the player their DPS, an average DPS for the job and maybe a maximum.

I do think it’s a little unfair to see someone with low DPS and jump straight to the ‘git gud’ thing without at least trying to understand what’s happening to cause it. Not suggesting that it’s going on here, but I do think it’s easy to see low damage and just assume the player isn’t interested in their performance. No parser can show you what’s going on behind the screen. And ultimately as others have said, if someone is harassing you then you can report them if you feel like they’re going to fun, and surely the GM’s will do something

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Originally Posted by Vidu

It is simply polite to tell people that you're new and would like them to give you advice. Dont just expect them to spell stuff out for you just because the game informed them that there is a new character in the run, because that can be an alt aswell. Or it might be someone who doesnt want an explantion either for blind running purposes or because they're confident enough that they can figure out mechanics on the go - lets be honest: most dungeon boss fights are super simple.
Your party also wont know if you're running a certain dunegon on a class that you just picked up or havent played in a while.
I'm not advicing you to ask for an explantion before every boss-fight, I'm advicing you to greet your party at the start of the dungeon with "Hey, first time doing this, any pointers would be appericiated!" so they know to actually give them.
In my experience communication with your party is key and can prevent or solve fights.
You expect other people to explain things to you - is it really that unreasonble that someone might expect you to ask for that explantion?

I have seen MSQ-dungeons wipe btw. Often enough even after explantions had been given.

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Politely announcing you're new and asking for advice is fine. It isn't necessary in low level content, however, and most of the time it'll just be ignored. It does speak volumes about this community that this is where you place the responsibility for mitigating fights. I personally would just prefer veteran players not be uselessly condescending in low level content to new players, but whatever.

I think you know the kinds of veteran players I'm talking about; basically the kinds that insult new players for no serious reason. "Hi, I'm new" isn't going to be what magically turns them into good people.