Is it me or has the community gotten worse...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nyvara

snip

---

I don't mind that, you could have an entire group say nothing then half way through the run one randomly talks and occasionally it lightens the mood and triggers someone else to say something. Little things like that can be nice but i wouldn't panic if everyone is quiet at first lol.

Personally it bothers me when ppl use logs to attack me over my dps
Like im not playing this game to please your lofty standards in terms of dps.
If people used these things for self improvement then no problemo but for harassing others?
no thanks~ On my very first run in The Burn dungeon i got harassed about my dps by the healer and the tank.
Like im sorry its my very first run and what ill do is play safe.

I was never a person to care for my damage i just want things to explode to death in content!
And that was how i played every single mmo,if you want to lock me out of content cause of my dps thats fine,
theres someone out there who will not do that.
Also saying " you're just smokescreening for your lack of interest in being a team player and actually pulling your weight in duties."
I am a team player and i always try to do my best just cause my DPS isnt what you want it to be doesnt mean im not one.

If i cared about numbers id use fflogs and whatever too but i dont care so i dont use it and i dont need anyone to harass me about it~
I love how some ppl forget its a third party program that isnt allowed either so yeah im gonna report you if u harass me about it :0
Giving advice is cool,harassing isnt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sathona

Personally it bothers me when ppl use logs to attack me over my dps
Like im not playing this game to please your lofty standards in terms of dps.
If people used these things for self improvement then no problemo but for harassing others?
no thanks~ On my very first run in The Burn dungeon i got harassed about my dps by the healer and the tank.
Like im sorry its my very first run and what ill do is play safe.

I was never a person to care for my damage i just want things to explode to death in content!
And that was how i played every single mmo,if you want to lock me out of content cause of my dps thats fine,
theres someone out there who will not do that.
Also saying " you're just smokescreening for your lack of interest in being a team player and actually pulling your weight in duties."
I am a team player and i always try to do my best just cause my DPS isnt what you want it to be doesnt mean im not one.

If i cared about numbers id use fflogs and whatever too but i dont care so i dont use it and i dont need anyone to harass me about it~
I love how some ppl forget its a third party program that isnt allowed either so yeah im gonna report you if u harass me about it :0
Giving advice is cool,harassing isnt.

---

This is reportable so you should report it. If you see a party finder that says 'I'll check your logs' then I would honestly not bother joining them. If your joining content such as savage or extremes where you're not even doing enough to kill the 'dummy tester' then you might want to actually care about your DPs though - otherwise, it's an eyebrow-raiser on why you're in that content in the first place when it's likely that you're being carried. Gotta earn those pretties.

But for dungeons like the Burn etc, there's really no need for this to happen. Basic dungeons are just that, folks can be carried through it. It's just irritating when it does come to that as it makes the dungeon go quicker. Honestly, when this happens to me, I just go with it and don't really say anything as most folks get offended. The only time I do chime in; is when I ask the tank to put on their tank stance - since a lot forget to reapply - or for dps to AoE if I know they have them. My friend and I do tend to gauge it though, like if we can do a long pull or not. blah blah.

Hope things get better for ya though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kidalutz

Its that train of thought that makes me think that you're just being jaded at this point. the fact that you're advocating harassment by using quotation marks like it's an imaginary thing while telling someone that they're not interested in being a team player and pulling thier own weight kind of takes the mickey out of the entire argument you set forth.
in one single sentence you have pretty much stated three things without outright saying it.

1. You use third party software that's not allowed to be mentioned.
2. You use it in a manner which is not for self improvement but judging other players.
3.You endorse harassment and third party websites to force other people to your view of thinking.

That alone constitutes that you yourself are not interested in teamwork because rather than helping someone improve you're more interested in what benefits you at that precise moment.

---

And your post and other previous state the following things:

1. People wouldn't have to mention it, if others actually bothered to improve AKA care about teamwork.
2. See 1. I already self improved but unfortunately duties depend on the performance of the whole group, not just mine
3. Telling someone they're bad isn't harassment. It's stating a fact. Plus wouldn't have to tell them that if they had an ounce of selflessness on their body, and bothered to pull their weight.
4. You can't dismiss my point by saying I'm not interested in teamwork, when the people I'm talking about aren't interested in it the first place. Why so much coddling and catering to them is what puzzles me and many others.
5. You and others don't care about clearing duties and providing a good experience for the whole group. Just your own.
6. You and others only care about your own personal feelings and not those of the rest of the group.
7. What you call harassment is only what the same thing you are doing here: people complaining that certain players are hurting their game experience.

Why do people keep telling me and others to help someone improve when that person doesn't seek out help nor does research to improve in the first place? Do you think people like me just got lucky and found someone to help me out, or I just did my own homework and got to where I am through my own efforts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

And your post and other previous state the following things:

1. People wouldn't have to mention it, if others actually bothered to improve AKA care about teamwork.
2. See 1. I already self improved but unfortunately duties depend on the performance of the whole group, not just mine
3. Telling someone they're bad isn't harassment. It's stating a fact. Plus wouldn't have to tell them that if they had an ounce of selflessness on their body, and bothered to pull their weight.
4. You can't dismiss my point by saying I'm not interested in teamwork, when the people I'm talking about aren't interested in it the first place. Why so much coddling and catering to them is what puzzles me and many others.
5. You and others don't care about clearing duties and providing a good experience for the whole group. Just your own.
6. You and others only care about your own personal feelings and not those of the rest of the group.
7. What you call harassment is only what the same thing you are doing here: people complaining that certain players are hurting their game experience.

Why do people keep telling me and others to help someone improve when that person doesn't seek out help nor does research to improve in the first place? Do you think people like me just got lucky and found someone to help me out, or I just did my own homework and got to where I am through my own efforts?

---

Being a Good/Bad player isn't binary.

People improve over time through practice, or they may be having a bad day, or they were momentarily distracted, etc.

I see this a lot, people who claim to espouse 'teamwork' seem to expect top performance from everyone, instantly.
Their idea of 'teamwork' is "enable me to complete the content as quick as possible". That's not teamwork.
People may still be learning the content, teamwork is having the patience to help your teammates through the content, not using them for a quick clear.

Booting people out of parties for not meeting your standards isn't teamwork, calling it as such is pure doublespeak.
By all means call it after a time, after giving them a chance, but to instantly give up on poor performance and call it 'bad teamwork' is hypocrisy, just admit that you don't have the patience for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

Being a Good/Bad player isn't binary.

People improve over time through practice, or they may be having a bad day, or they were momentarily distracted, etc.

I see this a lot, people who claim to espouse 'teamwork' seem to expect top performance from everyone, instantly.
Their idea of 'teamwork' is "enable me to complete the content as quick as possible". That's not teamwork.
People may still be learning the content, teamwork is having the patience to help your teammates through the content, not using them for a quick clear.

---

People keep shunning the tools that allow them to improve. ACT? No, that's against the rules (even though World first runners clearly show overlays on stream and are fine). Balance Discord? No, it's full of toxic elitist raiders. Suggestions? No, you don't pay my sub.

People have no interest in improvement, just their feelings and keeping doing what they do without anyone telling them they're not helping the group.

And again, if everyone had passable performance, we wouldn't be having this topic in the first place. We wouldn't be having trap parties for EX. We wouldn't be having Savage PUG parties with one or two people wiping the rest of the group consistently. We wouldn't be having wipes on Titania Normal of all things. We wouldn't have people asking for Shinryu to be nerfed. We wouldn't have people saying playing as Y'shtola with only 4 buttons is too hard.
You seem to forget that, if I complete the content quickly, so does everyone else. It's a win win for everyone. But feefees and virtue signaling culture is what matters nowadays. We got to the point where SE needs to do the handholding themselves, because people aren't capable of doing anything independently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

People keep shunning the tools that allow them to improve. ACT? No, that's against the rules (even though World first runners clearly show overlays on stream and are fine). Balance Discord? No, it's full of toxic elitist raiders. Suggestions? No, you don't pay my sub.

People have no interest in improvement, just their feelings and keeping doing what they do without anyone telling them they're not helping the group.

And again, if everyone had passable performance, we wouldn't be having this topic in the first place. We wouldn't be having trap parties for EX. We wouldn't be having Savage PUG parties with one or two people wiping the rest of the group consistently. We wouldn't be having wipes on Titania Normal of all things. We wouldn't have people asking for Shinryu to be nerfed. We wouldn't have people saying playing as Y'shtola with only 4 buttons is too hard.
You seem to forget that, if I complete the content quickly, so does everyone else. It's a win win for everyone. But feefees and virtue signaling culture is what matters nowadays. We got to the point where SE needs to do the handholding themselves, because people aren't capable of doing anything independently.

---

You didn’t read what I said did you?

I said IF they don’t improve, IF they don’t accept help, IF they refuse to learn.

You can’t know these things unless you give them a chance first.
One wipe = kick, is not giving them a chance.

If you don’t have the patience to give people a chance, just admit it, instead of pretending you’re some paragon of teamwork.

To instead come from a default position of “nobody ever wants to learn or improve, and I won’t give anyone a chance to do so anyway” is the peak of cynicism and "everyone must meet my standards before they encounter me" is elitism.

People learn in different ways, ACT isn't available to everyone, and you can look up and learn good rotations without needing to set foot in the Balance Discord.

More or less the only thing I've noticed is more and more people joining into extreme trials and they haven't even tried to watch a video on the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

You didn’t read what I said didyou?

I said IF they don’t improve, IF they don’t accept help, IF they refuse to learn.

You can’t know these things unless you give them a chance first.
One wipe = kick, is not giving them a chance.

If you don’t have the patience to give people a chance, just admit it, instead of pretending you’re some paragon of teamwork.

To instead come from a default position of “nobody ever wants to learn or improve, and I won’t give anyone a chance to do so anyway” is the peak of cynicism and elitism.

---

I don't understand why you would go into such a party - join a training party or a party that is more chill. There's no point for you to join a 'One wipe = kick' party if you're not confident enough to be able to pull that off. Most folks are very clear in the party finder about this. It actually makes me really mad when we warn folks that we actually want to farm and thus don't wish wipes, but there's one player who's consistently wiping the party - the admirable thing for them to do is to step up and go 'I'm sorry, I can't do this right now - my mind is elsewhere, I'll leave.' Not continue to stay in the party, that was specifically stated to be a farm or had those strict 'one wipe = kick' clauses on join up.

That doesn't make the person who's kicking you an ahole, they're an ahole if they chew you out though and publically slam your dps. Folks can be tactful about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

And your post and other previous state the following things:

1. People wouldn't have to mention it, if others actually bothered to improve AKA care about teamwork.
2. See 1. I already self improved but unfortunately duties depend on the performance of the whole group, not just mine
3. Telling someone they're bad isn't harassment. It's stating a fact. Plus wouldn't have to tell them that if they had an ounce of selflessness on their body, and bothered to pull their weight.
4. You can't dismiss my point by saying I'm not interested in teamwork, when the people I'm talking about aren't interested in it the first place. Why so much coddling and catering to them is what puzzles me and many others.
5. You and others don't care about clearing duties and providing a good experience for the whole group. Just your own.
6. You and others only care about your own personal feelings and not those of the rest of the group.
7. What you call harassment is only what the same thing you are doing here: people complaining that certain players are hurting their game experience.

Why do people keep telling me and others to help someone improve when that person doesn't seek out help nor does research to improve in the first place? Do you think people like me just got lucky and found someone to help me out, or I just did my own homework and got to where I am through my own efforts?

---

The problem with attitude like yours is that, there is none who will draw a line where and when its acceptable to perform on X level in X content.
Thanks to the other mmorpgs we already know the answer, there is no line at all, and there is toxicity running towards people who are not bad but just average.

There is always that one guy who is going to be better than you on certain job, will you be fine to be told by him that you are "super noob go play hello kitty online"? Lets assume You are hitting green-blue colour in logs, and the guy is violet-orange, because the guy is cherry picking his logs and upload only the best ones and you are playing with someone who is uploading them all or you upload it yourself. The real difference may not be big between you and him, but on the site it is shown as big and it is an ammunition to use against you.
If you let people harras each other over numbers its not going to stop on gray color, greens will be called out for being bad and blues.
Just like in WoW, they are often kicking people from the dungeon because someone is below 50%, is this okay for you?
The number you pull in ACT and logs is a combination of all variables not only your skill. Sometimes you will do terribly bad and these logs are going to spoil your performance on the site, reducing it down to green or blue and sometimes you are not going to have any control over what its being shown on the site about your character...
By accepting harrassment by the logs you are allowing toxic people to judge you over your logs even before you start your duty.

This is going only one way, and it is going to increase the toxicity in the game on all levels of play.