1.18: Wipe your tears and open your eyes!

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Originally Posted by viion

This community isnt full of retards who cant tie their own shoelace.

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Based on what I read here, I'm not so sure about that.

Great thread. You make a lot of great points and I concur that anyone who is whining about the patch are just either bad at the game or don't properly know how to adapt.

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Originally Posted by Raim

You need to reevaluate your opinion of SE's abiity to balance hate if you think telling everyone to not attack for 30 seconds at the beginning of a fight is in any way normal.

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It's actually extremely common in MMO's for DPS to hold off a few seconds before certain difficult fights. It goes along with the strategy, and to be honest I'd rather hold off for a simple 20-30 seconds than have a tank that gets hate extremely easy at the start and never has a chance of losing it throughout the fight.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Based on what I read here, I'm not so sure about that.

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Quoted for truth. All the crying over a very positive patch (by mostly scrubby players) is the proof of that.

first of all the 30 second thing is anything but hyperbole. If you are fighting a rare NM and all the DPS go all out from the start no matter WHAT game you are playing one of the DPS WILL take hate. The 30 second thing was used a lot just to make sure WE DO NOT LOSE and have to start the whole fight again. (doesnt have to be 30 secs it can be 10 secs or 1 whole min.) it was used in FF11 a lot.. hell there was even some battles that DPS could not even attack..... When you are fighting something that can kill a tank in 1 or 2 hits your goal as a DPS is to be absolutely sure you do NOT take hate. and if that means backing off then you must back off... its not the games fault you suck and chose to go crazy.

OT: great thread and I agree with it. However cure 3 and other cures take up way to much hate IMHO. Lower that a little bit and im good with the system.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

Great thread. You make a lot of great points and I concur that anyone who is whining about the patch are just either bad at the game or don't properly know how to adapt.



It's actually extremely common in MMO's for DPS to hold off a few seconds before certain difficult fights. It goes along with the strategy, and to be honest I'd rather hold off for a simple 20-30 seconds than have a tank that gets hate extremely easy at the start and never has a chance of losing it throughout the fight.

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Wow you put it better then i did nice!

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Originally Posted by viion

Not if some say its working cuse they can hold X mob where as others say it doesnt work because they cant hold Y mob, when X and Y are completely different. So thus it can be broken when it works for some but not for others when additional situations are added to the experience.

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This can be defined by a bug in the hate mechanics of mob Y. It does not necessarily suggest the enmity system as a whole is broken.

In fact, the logical step is to suggest the mob being buggy rather than the system when 'mob Ys' are few and far between.

Patch 1.18 inspired me to go back and level some other classes to gain abilities that'll be helpful for my brand of tanking/DD, so hurray 1.18.

That's all I have to add.

The problem I have here is the assumption that every tank NEEDS Cure III Sacrifice III. You can emit plenty of hate without these spells just fine. Spend time doing damage off the back and throw a taunt and provoke and you get the same effect.

I agree that Accomplice is a godly skill to carry though. I would be lost without it on PUG

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Originally Posted by Val_Rhys

While I mostly agree with this thread, I do have a slight issue with blanketing the enmity/hate system as "perfect" or even "mostly ok". I'll start by saying keeping hate under this system is more than possible - it's actually relatively simple once you adjust to the new system and enmity values associated with abilities.

The problem, in my mind, is that the abilities all GLAs are using to keep hate are *not* GLA abilities. It should not be required that a GLA rank up CON and THM to 48 to get Cure/Sac III (or even Cure/Sac II, despite being relatively small investment of time). Or ranking up LNC to 30 for accomplice. Or MRD in the 40s for Defender II. PUG in the 40s for Taunt II. I made a list of all the abilities I could want as a tank and I literally could not find a class I wouldn't want 42+.

Now, we know class abilities are being adjusted to define more class specific roles but who knows what we'll end up with. Jobs apparently are being restricted from using other class abilities? Or something to that effect.

Classes should be relatively stand-alone, in my eyes. Especially since Yoshi recently said he's hoping to develop a system where 2 hours of gameplay a day for 3-4 months will get a class to rank cap. The idea of having to level 7 classes (or more, when more are released) to cap or near cap to be playing your class effectively is absurd.

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Accomplice is a rank 30 PGL skill... not LNC... :P

In all seriousness though, I don't believe they are necessary in all scenarios of tanking, however they serve as a great boon to one's ability to tank. If all it took to tank effectively was to rank GLA to 50 and be done, there'd be no long-term developmental goals.

The reason I ranked MRD and GLA up at all were to supplement my PGL tank with skills. The reason I ranked LNC was to get Invigorate II for my Archer. These goals keep me playing, trying out all the classes and discovering my unique playstyle.

My suggestions are in response to helping someone tank better - which with this system means accumulating hate more efficiently than the rest of the party's members.

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

The problem I have here is the assumption that every tank NEEDS Cure III Sacrifice III. You can emit plenty of hate without these spells just fine. Spend time doing damage off the back and throw a taunt and provoke and you get the same effect.

I agree that Accomplice is a godly skill to carry though. I would be lost without it on PUG

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They do not need it. I would highly recommend at least 1 tier 2 heal though - and that is not difficult to obtain in the slightest. A tier 3 heal just makes it easier on the tank.

Again tanking is not only about what skills you have, but the skills you have can boost your ability to tank by a large margin.

Give a deadly warrior a deadly sword and you have a legendary foe... or in this case.. a shield? :P