"Open Style" vs "Rigid Structure" what do you want for the future of FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Verecund

The problem is that they've given us a sandbox without actually filling it with sand first.

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Haha, yep. It's like a hard box right now. Not much fun.

I think this Open Style is "too" open. Whether rigid or open, I feel a balance is needed.

There is no penalty for advancing all the jobs, you only have more options and can carry these improved options into a lower rank environment. We don't have to return to a camp to reassign abilities or switch classes, we can be who we want to be (ability wise and time invested permit). And there are no rank restrictions on cross rank abilities, so that lowly gladiator might be able to raise the dead (Necroglad!).

If there was a greater difference in using favored abilities with favored gear with specialized stats, then we might still be able to feel a bit more unique or specialized in a world of open classes.

... half tempted to start a separate topic on stats alone, but I digress, I must find cookies and om nom them into meh belleh!!!

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I think this Open Style is "too" open. Whether rigid or open, I feel a balance is needed.

There is no penalty for advancing all the jobs, you only have more options and can carry these improved options into a lower rank environment. We don't have to return to a camp to reassign abilities or switch classes, we can be who we want to be (ability wise and time invested permit). And there are no rank restrictions on cross rank abilities, so that lowly gladiator might be able to raise the dead (Necroglad!).

If there was a greater difference in using favored abilities with favored gear with specialized stats, then we might still be able to feel a bit more unique or specialized in a world of open classes.

... half tempted to start a separate topic on stats alone, but I digress, I must find cookies and om nom them into meh belleh!!!

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who cares if he can raise the dead? in fact this solves the shout for a raise issue.
Cross class penalties on skills are already in place
65% potency, (damage) and lowere acc
25% increase in recast time
stats do in fact have a large effect on the effectiveness of skills, ie you notice a lrge reduction with virtually no points in the applicable stat.

non favored gear is bad enough to the point of not even being worth a low level favored version usually
sub optimal rank gear takes heavy durability loss, and does not compete with hear within 5 levels of you, sometimes even worse.

there is a lot of misconceptions about how "open" the open style is open. just cause you see a level 22 thaum in level 45 gladiator gear, using red lotus doesnt mean he is comparable to a properly equed thaum using his native skill set.

Lol.... did someone seriously just asy that this game sucks because you can solo?

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Originally Posted by Physic

who cares if he can raise the dead? in fact this solves the shout for a raise issue.
Cross class penalties on skills are already in place
65% potency, (damage) and lowere acc
25% increase in recast time
stats do in fact have a large effect on the effectiveness of skills, ie you notice a lrge reduction with virtually no points in the applicable stat.

non favored gear is bad enough to the point of not even being worth a low level favored version usually
sub optimal rank gear takes heavy durability loss, and does not compete with hear within 5 levels of you, sometimes even worse.

there is a lot of misconceptions about how "open" the open style is open. just cause you see a level 22 thaum in level 45 gladiator gear, using red lotus doesnt mean he is comparable to a properly equed thaum using his native skill set.

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Hi Physic,

Great points. :)

I think part of what makes this current system seem so open is just how easy everything is. I've seen so many Guildleve Parties now (with players on their 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. classes going through Leves), where they show up in Non-Optimal Class, and Non-Optimal Rank Gear and Weapons.

You're right in that there's a huge penalty for using Non-Optimal Gear / Weapons (and Tools), but since the system allows you to equip anything anyways, you see people show up in Crafting Gear to Guildleve SP Parties (~_~), sigh.

They may not be anywhere near as effective, but the Leves and SP'ing in general is so easy, that they can get away with showing up in Crafting Gear and as long as they're Leve-Linking, people don't mind.

I think that's one detriment to the current system. I've seen R21 Archers show up with a Crab Bow (>_>) just because they can, I guess. It's their choice, but I wonder if they realize how truncated their damage is?

I've spoken with random players wearing gear 20+ Ranks above them, or wearing gear that wasn't for their class. Some of them were genuinely surprised and didn't realize that they were penalized so heavily.

Without having Party Leaders who monitor or regulate certain rules for a Party, everyone just seems to go with the flow (i.e., no one really seems to mind either way).

Rigid.

If i weren't playing a Final Fantasy title, I'd say open style can be fun. Like an empty canvas, allow the player to paint the perfect character. But there's a lot of fun and excitement in a rigid system when perfectly developed and balanced. Putting aside the lack of balance among the jobs, the jobs in FFXI were just so much fun and full of so much character as defined by their traits and abilities, and armor.

Rigid, and while I am at it, Instanced to hell and back (as far as storylines and endgame), and Themepark.
OW and sandbox are so over-rated........ ugh the very concept makes me physically ill.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

What you're really saying is you're a baby and you want to suck on your spoon. You can't play well with others when no one but you defines the roles of your party. Just like a little baby, you're completely helpless to feed yourself your liquified food.

I, however, am gifted enough in imagination to be able to create my own outcome from the choices laid in front of me and I welcome the freedom it gives. Square Enix must not neglect you players who are not having a good time and so they will redesign the game for you, but that doesn't mean I will ever respect your lack of spine.

The openness of this game did correlate with its failure but that doesn't mean it caused its failure. To your lack of spine, lack of imagination, and baby urges, you can add lack of critical thinking.

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Cant we discuss a topic without name calling. Its damaging to your point when someone lobs insults at the opposing view point. While I think you do have a small point I must disagree. A open system is far to bland and boring. Sure there is an appeal to it but it lacks long term enjoyment and strategy. Im not saying go to the XI style of 1 main 1 sub, but I defiantly had way more fun lvling different class's in XI. I dont know what the best course of action would be but varying from light to heavy penalties (depending on the lvl of the skill) for off class ability's does seem like a good place to start. With the changes coming to the combat system such as auto atk & etc. well see the playing strategy change. This may help or hurt, walking the fine line between open/rigid.

in the open system yes u get to customize your playstyle to one class more using the example healer, nuker, support mage and combine them. But this requires you to level all those classes to have those abilities avialable. What is the difference than leveling each Rigid job Healer, nuker, support mage and using that specific one for the task ahead.

Main issue I have with it is I see a Mage now and do not know what abilitites they have rather than in a rigid ssytem id know thats a support mage by looking at them.

This enturn helps everyone define what u are to everyone else, when a task is needed to perform rather than guess if yuo've unlocked everything in this Open ability enviroment

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Rigid. "Open style" makes for homogeneous, boring classes.

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I agree. There is way too much of a generic sandboxy feel in this game. Boring jack-of-all-trades classes, no spell restrictions, no progression. No balance.

The only consequences we seem to be up against is anima.

If I want to wander around aimlessly with a bunch of boring people, I'll play that game called real life.