How To: Maximize Your DPS as Dragoon

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Edit: A good way is to test until you run out of TP (with usage of invigorate).

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Who made this rule exactly? This is my disconnect from the rule as I don't agree with it specifically for DRGs. Perhaps this would be the case with smoother DPS such as monks, then this testing would be viable. As far as I'm concerned it means nothing for a DRG and is frankly inaccurate in a real fight for the class. The fundamental is that it is a spike DPSer not a consistent. However if this is what you wish to use for your testing, then go ahead.

My stats are -

471 ACC / 537 CRIT / 322 DETER / 445 AP / 428 SS
Mixture of crafted gear, Myth chest and DL with relic +1.

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Originally Posted by LongNu

Who made this rule exactly? This is my disconnect from the rule as I don't agree with it specifically for DRGs. Perhaps this would be the case with smoother DPS such as monks, then this testing would be viable. As far as I'm concerned it means nothing for a DRG and is frankly inaccurate in a real fight for the class. The fundamental is that it is a spike DPSer not a consistent. However if this is what you wish to use for your testing, then go ahead.

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Well its not a rule but its only natural that people try to make their parses as long as as possible, since it evens out RNG and is therefore more accurate. I was just pointing out that the parses that other people used where over a longer period of time, which makes their numbers smaller. For burst phases i have seen parses go up to 400 dps.

I admit I am very wary of getting involved in this thread. However there is a ridiculous amount of misinformation going around that I feel must be addressed to avoid confusing people that aren't as experienced with a Dragoon.

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Originally Posted by LongNu

this rotation I posted does more than the other one consistently.

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Originally Posted by AzumaKun

Interesting seeing the differences between this rotation and the one posted on this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...otation-Reborn

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Originally Posted by LongNu

Either way, this rotation does more than the other one with parsers.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

I've always used somewhat of a Hybrid between your rotation and the other thread's rotation either.

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Originally Posted by LongNu

That's specifically why I invented this rotation.

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Originally Posted by LongNu

but for what it's worth, this rotation I posted does more than the other one consistently

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I want to make this very, very clear. There are four rotations presented in the Rotation Reborn thread. The first is designed to teach people the mechanics of buff and debuff cycling. It's simplistic, easy to remember, and excellent for learning the basics of Dragoon mechanics. Once people are comfortable with playing a Dragoon, there are then three other rotations presented that can be adopted if people are looking to put out more single target dps, avoid chaos thrust clipping, get Disembowel off earlier, etc.

Additionally, there are pages of discussion regarding which rotations produce more dps with 100% uptime. At no point do I ever claim that the first rotation presented in the thread is the highest damage rotation on a dummy. In fact I specifically deal with this entire argument in the "Closing the Fracture" section.

I would in fact argue that the rotation you present is merely a slight variation on the following created by EasyModeX (with Fractures injected as needed to avoid CT clipping):

HT-ID-Dis-CT-Ph-TT-VT-FT-HT-TT-VT-FT-Ph-ID-Dis-CT-HT-TT-VT-FT-Ph-TT-VT-FT

Which is in fact the highest "dummy" rotation. The difference between your own presentation and the above is that you overwrite Disembowel when you don't need to, and let CT drop when there is also no need to, costing you dps.

I have no problem with providing useful information, but you've blatantly ignored ground that has already been well covered, and presented your own strawman argument against only the first rotation (out of four) presented in the Reborn thread by saying your own does more damage, when the first rotation was never presented as the highest damage rotation to begin with.

I appreciate that you are an excellent player (as Zabuza has made abundantly clear), but this thread brings nothing but additional confusion to an already confusing job.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Well its not a rule but its only natural that people try to make their parses as long as as possible, since it evens out RNG and is therefore more accurate. I was just pointing out that the parses that other people used where over a longer period of time, which makes their numbers smaller. For burst phases i have seen parses go up to 400 dps.

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This is not a burst phase. The logic in that 'rule' is faulty, especially considering that there are different classes in the game that do their damage in different ways. For example, some classes have access to execute abilities which can and will raise their DPS factors. In addition, Coil / Titan have heavy movement mechanics which alter rotations (hence the reason for making this one) I do not agree on that being the indication for every class. It's one dimensional in my opinion and if it were true, I'm certain a developer would confirm it. It's nothing more than speculation as it currently stands and should not be considered the one and only rule for confirmation of DPS. One has to determine for themselves what they feel is best.

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

I appreciate that you are an excellent player (as Zabuza has made abundantly clear), but this thread brings nothing but additional confusion to an already confusing job.

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Thanks for your opinion.

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Originally Posted by LongNu

It's the same parse, showing there is no LB. Your posts add nothing to this thread other than your own noteworthy disbelief. You have yet to disprove anything here. The other rotation is less in DPS output. Period. I have tested both extensively. Feel free to try it yourself.

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It does show that there is no LB, i was simply pointing out youre taking parses from the other thread that did 286 dps as you stated earlier (less than yours), then posted a parse to prove your rotation's effectiveness, however the parse is under a vastly different situation. A 83 second parse will be higher than a 300 second parse. If i did the full thrust combo over and over, nothing but it, in a 30 second parse, im willing to bet it would result in higher DPS than your parse. Does that make it better?

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Instead of criticizing you should try both of these rotations yourself and parse before you decide to throw out blind criticism, and simply disbelieving something just because it doesn't match up to your ideas.

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I wish i could, unfortunately im incapable of performing jump roughly 7.5 seconds after the last jump. Mine has a longer CD on it. I get the feeling anyway that if i was to test out the rotation and get a lower DPS than hers it would be decided it was player error or something else rather than the other rotation simply being better. what would that accomplish?

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Originally Posted by xyaie

It does show that there is no LB, i was simply pointing out youre taking parses from the other thread that did 286 dps as you stated earlier (less than yours), then posted a parse to prove your rotation's effectiveness, however the parse is under a vastly different situation. A 83 second parse will be higher than a 300 second parse. If i did the full thrust combo over and over, nothing but it, in a 30 second parse, im willing to bet it would result in higher DPS than your parse. Does that make it better?



I wish i could, unfortunately im incapable of performing jump roughly 7.5 seconds after the last jump. Mine has a longer CD on it. I get the feeling anyway that if i was to test out the rotation and get a lower DPS than hers it would be decided it was player error or something else rather than the other rotation simply being better. what would that accomplish?

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Then as stated before, you have nothing of value to add to this thread other than your bitter disbeliefs

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Then as stated before, you have nothing of value to add to this thread other than your bitter disbeliefs

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Im pretty sure i mentioned stuff there beyond "nope, this is bad" or "cant be done"
also pretty sure i even acknowledged (believed) the parse was valid for what it was, but that she was comparing apples and oranges. Rather than simply telling someone "i dont like what youre saying go away" i brought up points that could be spoken about, trying to figure out why she gets higher results by using lower potency. I also even mentioned something (mentioned before) as to why i cant perform the test youre asking me to do, but rather than explaining how i can jump twice within 8 seconds, you simply tell me im not contributing, simple enough, going back to considering this a troll.

I don't quite get what you're saying here. You say that you invented this rotation for titan and coil, but you also say that you only parse the burst part of your rotation. Titan and coil are sustained fights, not burst fights. You really should parse this rotation over a long period as said above by a few people, and then compare it to the "cookie cutter" over the same time period, being a sustained fight (5 mins +).

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Originally Posted by xyaie

Im pretty sure i mentioned stuff there beyond "nope, this is bad" or "cant be done"
also pretty sure i even acknowledged (believed) the parse was valid for what it was, but that she was comparing apples and oranges. Rather than simply telling someone "i dont like what youre saying go away" i brought up points that could be spoken about, trying to figure out why she gets higher results by using lower potency. I also even mentioned something (mentioned before) as to why i cant perform the test youre asking me to do, but rather than explaining how i can jump twice within 8 seconds, you simply tell me im not contributing, simple enough, going back to considering this a troll.

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They are trolling you. Just ignore them.