Tbh as negative as I come across on the topic, I absolutely wish healing requirements were sent to the moon. Selfishly I'd love it and frankly I do think that people will adapt to it with a little time. We adapted and managed with rough mainstream content such as Titan HM, Bardam's first pull or some of the nastier 24 mangs++Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
The reason why I am so negative on the idea though is because frankly I don't think it'll happen with Yoshida at the helm. A) The guy has no interest in healers & B) FFXIV has become ever more beginner focused as the years have gone by. If we get another MMO from him I'd be very surprised if it follows the trinity at all, I'd fully expect a GW2/Early BnS type situation where everyone's HP is their own responsibility for the most part.
(I genuinely do hope he proves me wrong on this one).
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09-06-2023, 07:25 AMSebazy
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09-06-2023, 07:32 AMForsakenRoeSame. I've served my sentence in Living Liquid's jail block, when I was doing TEA. I'd be loving it if EX roulettes hit as hard as that, but I cannot in good conscience say that it's the solution to go with, because I know that I'm not 'most players' when it comes to healing output. Being as I've healed as many Savages/Extremes/the 3 Ultimates I have, I've experienced several 'intensity levels' over the game's life, and I'd expect that, if anything, we'd go with Barb EX's healing requirements: lower hits (less oneshotty), but many more of them in the same timeframe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebazy
But, Ren's on record in these forums saying that Barb EX's healing required was super stressful week 1, to the point where it 'felt more like a Savage than an EX'. So, if someone like me found it fun to heal, but someone like him found it 'too stressful', where's the ideal line of 'just enough of an increase to required healing' that somehow satisfies both of us? I don't think there IS such a line, so the proposed solution is flawed, and we have to go back to the drawing board, instead of trying to hamfistedly ram it through with all these caveats like 'of course the changes wouldn't apply to casual content' -
09-06-2023, 07:37 AMConnorYeah, I do agree that based on their past records it’s hard to see the developers actually making these kinds of decisions. If anything things will become even more ‘streamlined’ (which is a terrifying thought lol), for all roles. Which is sad, because I think encouraging players to coordinate and consider each other during combat can actually create a sense of group cohesion that otherwise is lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebazy
Like, if players had more reasons to help each other, whether meaningful support/debuff options, dps being able to relieve healer pressure, tanks having more meaningful and less ‘superfluous’ party defensive and healing, I think there’d be much less of a ‘Me vs Them’ mentality that many players end up developing.
I only played FFXI way after it was actually relevant lol, but my understanding that it was this kind of thing that solidified the strong sense of community the game had (albeit perhaps too strong lol, where ‘Me vs Them’ verged on becoming ‘Us vs Them’). The importance of each member in the party doing their part, whether healing, buffing, debuffing, dealing damage, defending the party, meant that people came out of the fights feeling like they’ve overcome it together, and not just themselves with 7 other people present (if that makes sense lol).
Basically having players do things to work together as a group, rather than just a collection of 8 players, can foster a better community spirit. I think. -
09-06-2023, 07:50 AMZeastriaQuote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
What i define as depth isn't a gauge sadly,
the concept of filling up a bar isn't depth ( never has been, never will)..
Depth to me is:
When you can use an ability for more than just one purpose/effect,
AST actually do have this when you get to use it's full toolkit..
Like ability A buffs ability B, but also puts "X" effect if you use ability C instead..,that kind of depth..
Also Eartly Star isnt rly hard to use.,.. you use it on cd.. for the dmg...
and you pop it ealier if you need the heal ( when it's big)..otherwise you let it run out on it's own..
You could save it and use it for big raidwide dmg... but it would be a waste in my opinion ( unless it line up with one)..
Why? Because of how little uptime you would get out from it..(if you didnt use it on cd)..
And after raidwide.. there will not be another one.. giving healer plenty of time heal up with hots alone...
(unless you have new players who may step in avoidable dmg that is - you want top them up more)
However there are some later fights that do req more heal right after raidwide ..however those are few and far between ..and you can cover them with other prep heals.
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To me it seems people are to afraid to heal..
That if they no longer can spam their 1,1,1,1,1 dps button rotation and the occasual offglobal heal ability..
their whole world would fall apart..
When i put it like that:
Your typical cure1,medica2 spammer healbot - would be more usefull - ( If they changed the heal req lol)
and they're the bad casual healer players you guys speak about... and they are many..
They would thrive with the new change.. meanwhile the dps-healers would perish-- natural selection at its best.
(Don't take it serious..lol) -
09-06-2023, 08:21 AMRein_eon_OsborneNobody says it’s hard to use. In normal content they don’t matter because you still have CO, CU, Horoscope, and Macro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeastria
Further higher though? There are indeed times where you do need to delay putting down stars slightly to fill the gap in their toolkit while also not losing usage (I remember this fondly in first quarter of P2S), or do it anyway while hoping to draw Lady of Crown lmao. This requires the foresight that Roe speaking of, both mechanic and general kill time. You won’t see this sort of nuance in almost all normal content.
I die a little inside everytime I got paired with filler co-AST at that period who just drop their star at -4s on cooldown then scrambles their way to cover that gap with an Asp Helios when they could’ve otherwise just relied on my many free to use buttons weeks after I begin to reintegrate back to SCH. -
09-06-2023, 08:33 AMZeastriaQuote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
In harder content you have to plan and assign heal cds in advance with your co-healer ( even more so in ultimates) - that is true.
In normal content you use star on cd :)
People seem to underestimate hot stacks too..
Horo-->Nautral Sect --> Apspected Helios + Celestial Opposition is kinda OP w high spell speed..:)
(but you would lose 2 -3 dps cast tho and the use of an offglobal cd) -
09-06-2023, 08:47 AMAravellWhile that sounds like a great thing, we have to remember that the dev team's idea of increasing healing requirements is to make raidwides that kill you without mitigation and to tack bleeds onto everything. I much prefer BarbEX over the entire Abyssos tier in terms of healing requirements. I personally prefer hectic healing scenarios like p2 BarbEX or Living Liquid in TEA over heavy damage+bleed like P8S, but I don't think we'll get any of that unless the dev team understands what healing requirements mean and not mix it up with mitigation requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebazy
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09-06-2023, 08:54 AMRein_eon_OsborneIt's hard for me to comprehend how you can come to the conclusion that the healbot/sylphies would stay when my time in DF experience observing the pug healers are telling me the otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeastria
It is always these healbots/sylphies who crumbles straight away at the first sign of pressure (i.e. more than 2 players die at the same time), and occasionally complains while being unaware of their own incompetence lol.
Like Sebazy had once eloquently put before, these healers do not even press their nuke, Malefic or Asp Helios. They're trembling to even press any of their buttons properly against this pressure. What makes you think the actively 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 'green dps' would fall at the same trajectory when (gonna rely on my own anecdotal observation again lol) most that I've seen, it was always these green dpses who tend to be capable enough to bail the sylphies?
To this day, I still enjoy Barb even on Normal in later phases thanks to the mix of movement required and the damage spacing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravell
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09-06-2023, 09:46 AMAmiableApkalluWhen I'm running my daily roulettes, if I get a functionally useless co-healer, 90% of the time, it's a Medica II spamming WHM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeastria
- Fifteen seconds have passed? Medica II.
- Party is at 100%, and the boss is just auto-attacking the tank? Medica II.
- Seven party members at 100% and one party member at 10% because they failed a mechanic? Medica II.
- Four dead bodies on the floor? Medica II.
If I'm lucky...
- Party is at 100%, and everyone has Medica II ticking? Regen on a random party member.
The problem with a "spammer healbot" is that they, well, spam a heal with no regard for what the situation actually requires. They're functionally no different from a "dps-healer" that spams their nuke with no regard for what the situation actually requires.
A good healer actually adapts to the situation at hand. -
09-06-2023, 10:06 AMZeastriaMaybe the healbot(s) are different from server to server?,Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
it seems the most common type is WHM,but last one i meet.. was a SGE.. hmmm
( I wonder how they not go OOM lol xD )