No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

BRD got more AOE power in ShB. Their AOE isn’t weak at all. You only need to DoT 3-4 mobs, and then you Quick Nock spam while weaving in Rain of Death resets and Apex Arrow (at level 80). You don’t need to DoT every single enemy; just a handful. Then bask in the glory of all the procs you get during Mage’s Ballad from Repertoire, or from Quick Nock spam (at level 74, Enhanced Quick Nock Trait gives you a 30% chance to reset Rain of Death’s cooldown).

A lot of jobs got additional AOE skills in ShB, so it’s not always spamming one button unless you get synced down to a low level. In the higher level dungeons, most jobs have at least a two-tier AOE combo system. I believe DRG gets a 3-tier AOE combo during levels 71~80. And you do kill things more faster when you AOE. You also help out your tank and healer by getting rid of mobs faster so that they don’t have to use up all their resources on a single pull.

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If yoy read my original message and not just my answer to firstnamelastname you'll see that i refer to low level dungeons

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Originally Posted by TheForce

You need to relax. I'm not gonna reply to everything in this response because honestly I just don't care enough. But, I need to address a few things you brought up...so, if the healer is able to get through content and keep everybody reasonably healed up, they are NOT a bad healer. To heck with the rest of your superfluous standards and nitpicks, speaking as a Savage/EX Tank myself, if my healer can keep us healed up and allow us to progress through content, hey are a fine healer. Period. You're really coming off as an elitist right now. Also, speaking as a Tank who literally ALWAYS pulls wall to wall, if a Tank chooses to pull mob by mob, it's not a "snail's pace", stop being disrespectful. Some players prefer to do things differently and know what they can and cannot handle, and if their role gives them the authority to control just that, RESPECT THAT, or you have no business playing with a team. Pulling wall to wall isn't required to clear any content, and that's all that needs to be said.

Some of you guys need to really stop treating this game like some nonsense office setting/work setting. It's so incredibly annoying, all you care about is efficiency, productivity, no mistakes, do things this way and only this way, you must abide by my subjective standards. If that's the poisonous outlook you choose to have, then you need to keep that to yourself, and stop trying to push it onto others online who are just trying to have a fun time playing Final Fantasy. If they are clearing content, they are fine.

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I didn't have a problem with this comment. This was very well said.

The whole dungeon debate over the years is seriously one of the biggest blacks eyes of this game's lifespan imo.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Can you elaborate more on this?
If I hit each monster for 1840 damage individually dont they die faster when hitting 6 monster for 2010?
Because the way I understand your AoE explanation, your overall damage output is higher, because you hit 6x the targets, but you're going to have to hit many more times with your AoE because you're not hitting each mob individually for 2010, or are you?

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Your goal is to put out the highest amount of potency in the same amount of GCDs as possible. You will end up killing 3 mobs faster with AoE than you would with single target DPS, thus saving your tank damage and healer time healing said damage.

Math it this way:

Lets say each mob has 10,000 HP a piece and every potency is equivalent to 1 point of damage.

Over 3 GCDs (a typical combo), you will hit a single mob for 1840 damage. To kill a single mob you would need to hit that mob with said combo roughly 6 times (or 18 GCDs total). Now you have a group of 3 monsters, so thats gonna mean 54 GCDs to kill all 3, give or take a few GCDs.

Now for aoe, you do roughly 670ish damage per mob every 3 GCDs. Thats a 15 GCD combo per mob (or 45 GCDs total) to kill 1 mob (compared to 18 from single target DPS), but since youre hitting all of them at the same time with no fall off in damage, thats all youre expending. In the end, by AoEing with no damage fall off, you do less per mob but you spend less GCDs overall killing them all due to them all being hit simultaneously. The more mobs you add to a group, the more efficient this method of killing becomes, as it you have to keep tacking on another 18 GCDs per mob if you were to single target DPS them.

Now this is a rough idea of how it works, but keep in mind that not everything is gonna be perfect. You may kill 1 or two of hte mobs faster with a lone straggler remaining, where it is more efficient to swap to single target DPS.

TLDR - Its more efficient over the long run to do AoE DPS on 3+ mobs because it saves you GCDs.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

In low level content it's pointless, most classes can't even AoE.

In higher level content you ask first; make sure everyone's on the same page so people aren't blowing CD's prematurely, stealing aggro or falling behind.

If a lot of people in this game weren't so socially inept this wouldn't be very complicated.

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i think thats just mmo's in general. just speaking about an issue before hand would've solved a lot of my problems ive had in mmos

I hate to say it, but social ineptitude is pretty spot on.

The amount of times I've entered a dungeon and asked, "Big or small pulls?" or something to that effect, and have gotten zero response -- it's unbelievable. What do you do? There are times I've waited, poked them, badgered them until they said something. Other times I've just run off and pulled big, and oddly, I've never wiped doing this.

But it's part of why I stopped tanking. If healers won't even deign to answer a simple question, why would I put myself under stress for them?

I understand PS4 players have difficulty typing, but can we please take the time to at least type "big" or "small"? That's all I ask!

Oy vey. Rescue me.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

There is a HUGE difference between a "baby" pack and a pack of 20+ mobs. I only get bored when the Tank runs from the start to the first boss before finally stopping. You can grab 10 mobs in the first two rooms of a dungeon. Ten mobs is a baby pack. 30 is a monstrous pull.

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What are you even talking about here? Your initial post I quoted said you got annoyed at tanks pulling large because it takes too long before you can "a few nuclear bombs". I was pointing out those "nuclear bombs" will be significantly weaker if the tank pulls less, thus defeating the whole purpose.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

I guess I picked a bad time to consider learning/practicing tanking

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Like you were told in Tales. If this is your take away after reading this thread, you aren't ready to tank in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

@the force because I can't quote on phone for some reason: well I asked you how you tank out of genuine curiosity but you just seem like you want to get mad and fight with anyone who disagrees with you lol.
need to chill out for real.

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Okay, poster Jybril, you really need to stop now. The first time you called me out, I agreed with you because yes, I could've been a bit nicer. But now, the guy I responded to literally laced his response with disrespect, condescension, and narcissism. It was a little disgusting to read to be honest. And it's so strange that you're trying to scold me for for fighting with everybody who disagrees with me, when I made it clear that we all have our own views and that as long as we can get through the content reasonably, the playstyle we choose to have is perfectly fine. The other guy is who you should be addressing right now, not me. The aggression was primarily coming from him. This guy comes out of nowhere and tells me that that's wrong and his way of play (damage, dps focused)
is the only "correct" way and that I essentially don't know what I'm talking about. If you continue to ignore these individuals who continue to attack and speak down to those who hold a different opinion, then I'm sorry but I will not take you seriously.

And I apologize for not responding. I didnt even know you said anything. I'm not trying to give you the cold shoulder.

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Originally Posted by AncientCrystal

I didn't have a problem with this comment. This was very well said.

The whole dungeon debate over the years is seriously one of the biggest blacks eyes of this game's lifespan imo.

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Thanks AncientCrystal, appreciate it

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

I guess I picked a bad time to consider learning/practicing tanking

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Nah you didn't. Do you have a Discord? I'd be glad to teach you :-^)

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Originally Posted by TheForce

Okay, poster Jybril, you really need to stop now. The first time you called me out, I agreed with you because yes, I could've been a bit nicer. But now, the guy I responded to literally laced his response with disrespect, condescension, and narcissism. It was a little disgusting to read to be honest. And it's so strange that you're trying to scold me for for fighting with everybody who disagrees with me, when I made it clear that we all have our own views and that as long as we can get through the content reasonably, the playstyle we choose to have is perfectly fine. The other guy is who you should be addressing right now, not me. The aggression was primarily coming from him. This guy comes out of nowhere and tells me that that's wrong and his way of play (damage, dps focused)
is the only "correct" way and that I essentially don't know what I'm talking about. If you continue to ignore these individuals who continue to attack and speak down to those who hold a different opinion, then I'm sorry but I will not take you seriously.

And I apologize for not responding. I didnt even know you said anything. I'm not trying to give you the cold shoulder.

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I didn't scold you or mean to at least. I think everyone needs to calm down lol.

I was actually curious about how you tank and sadly I still didn't get a response.
I'm with tinythinker too, I have tank anxiety and wanted to see how you did it.
Pretty much stopped tanking a lot when this WHM forced rescued me into mobs lol.
I can't be asked to read a bunch of long-winded posts from every other poster though.
Some people are really getting hysterical though.
Sorry if you thought I was attacking you. :/