[Reminder] Are you ready to cry again? (2° Wave of Alpha invites tomorrow, 3 dec.)

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And the funny thing is that he accuses others of spamming the same things over and over. lol.

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Was I talking to you? Nope was talking to my Good friend Vilhem over there ^.^

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Originally Posted by Abriael

It's not a matter of "pandering". It's a matter of valuing their feedback and providing them with a way to give it.

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Which you will get when beta rolls around. Just because you haven't gotten into alpha doesn't really mean you've been "slighted". You simply weren't one of the lucky few. I'm sure they're getting feedback from the people who are in alpha. And as long as that's happening, things are on the right track.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You're comparing apples to oranges. All the "perks" you name (in game memorabilia? please. Who cares?) don't even get near the value of the ability to influence the early development and direction of the game we're all going to play.

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Says you. You see, you're only speaking from the view of what you want and feel you should get. I personally think the perks are nothing to sneeze at. Especially consdering we will pay a considerably less amount for our subscription than others will. If you don't think that's a great deal, then in my opinion you are asking waaay too much. lol And as I said, they have people in alpha who I'm sure will give them the feedback they require. Just because you're not one of them does't mean they're "doing it wrong".

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Originally Posted by Abriael

That's what feedback given in the alpha is. Whether that influence is big or small or negligible is inconsequential. For a loyal and passionate customer it's a very important thing.

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So is paying less money for a subscription. And once again, they are getting the feedback they require. And, once again, just because you're not one of the few selected to do so doesn't mean you've really been slighted or that they're going about the process wrong. After taking time in meetings and months of preparation, they're handling the alpha phase their way. All you can really do is sit back, relax, and wait till beta.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

By not inviting all their loyal customers to the alpha square enix has deprieved a sizable number of them of that ability, which simply translate on the fact that their feedback isn't given sufficient value, and it's placed below the "feedback" (assuming it's even coming, and from most it probably isn't) of people that kicked the game into the curb years ago and never cared until now that there's a shiny new toy to play with.

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That's how you choose to translate it. Who knows what their plan is for whom they picked and chose for alpha. Some superbly loyal customers got in. Some not so loyal (at least not for as long as the others) also got in. SE most likely have their reasons for doing it this way. It's their plan. And they're going with it, whether you feel some people "deserved" to get into alpha or not.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

With no way to be sure that they'll even get an early access to the beta, many simply think: "great, when I'll get in and I'll finally be able to throw in the weight of my feedback, it'll be too late and my feedback will be moot".

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How do you know that's how they're going to handle beta? For all you know, feedback could still be a very big thing during the beta phase. Or maybe not. The point is, they're going to let in whom they're going to let in. And if you want to say they're not "being nice to their loyal sub base" then that's your opinion. I, personally, find such a claim to be, well, unfounded, as well as a trigger effect of frustration and anger of not getting into alpha. Especially given what loyal subs have been given for being loyal subs.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Sorry, but if you think a big ass mount that you pull out only when you want to grief your peers can replace that, you really didn't understand why many are so passionate about getting into the alpha.

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So, you assume people wll only pull out the mount to "grief their peers". That's a huge assumption, and pretty unfounded too. You also assume that getting into alpha is more of a perk than paying a cheaper price for a subscription for, like, forever when others will pay a significantly higher price is less significant than getting into alpha. (shrug) Well fine, to each his own. But to that, I have to say this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

loads of snippets

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I'm sure you don't mind if I condense and synthetize the bloated multiple qotes for the sake of brevity and legibility.

1: You're comparing apples to oranges. In Game items or discounts are a completely different cup of tea from being able to influence the early development of a game. Giving one doesn't help in any way if the receiver wants the other. Paying less for a game and having items in a game doesn't help in any way if a customer doesn't enjoy the game, and being able to influence the game's direction and development is the only way we have to directly increase the chance that we'll enjoy said game.

The fact that they have other people in the alpha giving *their* feedback and pulling the game in the direction *they* want doesn't help in any way.

2: The later you get into the testing of a game, the less you'll have a chance to influence its development and direction. This is a steel-clad and undeniable rule of testing, as the more development progress, the more design becomes rigid. Therefore getting into a beta (that's IF you get in it early or ever) is no replacement for getting into the alpha (and getting into beta late is no replacement of getting into early beta) for the sake of giving feedback that may have a sizable chance of getting considered.

3: "it's their game, they do what they want" doesn't fly. As paying customers we have full right to criticize the way they handle their game. That's the very definition of customer-provided criticism and feedback. According to your flawed logic, alpha and beta are completely useless because "it's their game", so our feedback has no value.

As usual, second guessing my motives is just a petty personal attack and adds no solid ground under your assumptions.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Snippety

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYsw0KVRjCM
<3

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I'm sure you don't mind if I condense and synthetize the bloated multiple qotes for the sake of brevity and legibility.

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By all means, go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

1: You're comparing apples to oranges. In Game items or discounts are a completely different cup of tea from being able to influence the early development of a game. Giving one doesn't help in any way if the receiver wants the other. Paying less for a game and having items in a game doesn't help in any way if a customer doesn't enjoy the game, and being able to influence the game's direction and development is the only way we have to directly increase the chance that we'll enjoy said game.

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1. Once again, says you. You are speaking your judgment on SE's alpha tester selecting process based on your desires to test the game and your opinion about how it should be done. It means more to you than paying a smaller price for a subscription. When it all boils down to it, you are merely passing judgment based on what Abriael wants. Not on what the game needs, not on whether the game will be okay with the alpha testers it has now, it's all about what you want and what you feel you should get. You're only focused on Abriael wants, Abriael wants, Abriael wants. Well I'm sorry, but things just don't always work out that way. No, not even in video games. As for whether or not you'll enjoy the game, you'll just have to wait and see if you will, like all the other millions of people who weren't selected for alpha testing.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The fact that they have other people in the alpha giving *their* feedback and pulling the game in the direction *they* want doesn't help in any way.

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Correction, it doesn't help you feel better in any way. You don't know whether or not the people testing are doing a splendid job reccomending all the things you might. If you did know any specifics that happened during alpha testing, then someones breaching that NDA, you know, that agreement you like to preach often about why people shouldn't be breaching it. (You even threatened to tattle on someone for it. lol)

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Originally Posted by Abriael

2: The later you get into the testing of a game, the less you'll have a chance to influence its development and direction. This is a steel-clad and undeniable rule of testing, as the more development progress, the more design becomes rigid. Therefore getting into a beta (that's IF you get in it early or ever) is no replacement for getting into the alpha (and getting into beta late is no replacement of getting into early beta) for the sake of giving feedback that may have a sizable chance of getting considered.

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2. And yet, if you do get into beta, you'll be able to give feedback. So maybe the complaining is a bit premature, eh? And even if you don't get into beta, tough. You'll be no different from the millions of other people who don't get into beta. However, of two things you can be certain:

a. Someone will get into beta, whether it's you or not.

b. Those people (at least some of them) will provide feedback on the game.

So running around like, well, one of these, squawking "If we don't get in now, we might never get in to test the game!" is not going to do you any good. Just. Freakin. Relax.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

3: "it's their game, they do what they want" doesn't fly. As paying customers we have full right to criticize the way they handle their game. That's the very definition of customer-provided criticism and feedback. According to your flawed logic, alpha and beta are completely useless because "it's their game", so our feedback has no value.

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Actually, it does fly Abriael. It flies quite well, like a gassed up super-jet on a bright sunny day. Yes, you do have the right to criticize. But really, that's about where your power stops. One thing I have noticed about your posts is that you seem to think that if you are not there personally to give your opinion on how the game is going during alpha that it is going to collapse under it's own weight of fail and FFXIV will be no more. Well I'm sorry, Abriael. As much as you would like to believe you are the "chosen one", the one fortold throughout the ages to give the greatest most legendary alpha feedback ever, um, you're not. Not really. And yes, that was an exaggeration. But not that far from your attitude, to be honest. For all you know, the people giving advice on the game are doing a PHENOMENAL job doing so. Maybe ten times better than you, I, or anyone not selected could. Who knows? We do know that they're there, experiencing the game, and SE is getting their feedback. Jus because you're not there overseeing the experience yourself doesn't necessarily mean things are going wrong. So, stop that. lol

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Originally Posted by Abriael

As usual, second guessing my motives is just a petty personal attack and adds no solid ground under your assumptions.

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Not really a personal attack. But if you think "second guessing someone's motives" truly is a personal attack, you might want to rescend that comment you made about people showing off their goobbues just to "grief their peers". ;)

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Originally Posted by Nix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYsw0KVRjCM
<3

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<3

I love that movie! XD

Skye come in chat <3

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Skye come in chat <3

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Whats the link again?

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Well I'm sorry, Abriael. As much as you would like to believe you are the "chosen one", the one fortold throughout the ages to give the greatest most legendary alpha feedback ever, um, you're not.

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LOL I am so siging this XD That made me laugh hard!

Sausage Chat

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Originally Posted by Elexia

This is how most international games (games with home developers in a different nation but support numerous) work actually..so that actually isn't anything weird to have happen.

Besides, if there were no value to the 1.0 players they wouldn't have introduced the legacy membership. So once again it's less about entitlement and more about the skewed process that seemed to have occurred since getting inactive people and basically using it as an advertisement tool during closed alpha isn't exactly wise, which is why outside of the people excited to see it different from 1.0, a lot of other people see it as SE's desperate attempt to make it like an MMO from 2004-2007 era so having them for a very limited alpha does nothing when their feedback consists mainly of "lack of content" xD.

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You are such a failure at trashtalking ...been a legacy member entitles you to pay only 9.99$ ,a unique chocobo mount design,your name in the credits,a mark to show you survived the war. But not alpha access...
and if there is a lack of content why is SE having such a hard time making space for new people to join the alpha? and most testers are applauding the team claiming the Alpha build has the quality of Beta.
I seriously don't know whats your problem with what SE is doing but you are just making yourself look like a fool

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

a big misguided wall of multi quotes, misrepresentation, strawman arguments, hyperbole and personal attacks

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1: No matter how much you enjoy repeating the words "you" and "yours" and bolding them (like it gave any solid ground to your arguments. Hint: it doesn't). The fact that perks and discounts and the ability to directly influence the direction and development of a game are two entirely different values is indeed a fact. You (see, i can do it too) may think them equivalent, but they are factually different. Quite obviously others don't consider them equivalent and don't consider one a valid replacement for the other. So they won't be satisfied by the perks and discounts if what they want is the chance to influence the game. It's that simple.

The fact that you're satisfied with saving some money and getting some virtual items doesn't mean everyone else should be.

2: yes. We don't know if the current alpha testers are doing a good or a bad job with feedback. That's exactly the problem. You may be used to function on blind faith. Others do not. Again, it's that simple.

3: No matter if getting into the beta may or may not allow to provide feedback in time for it to be considered. The later you get into the testing of a game, the less you'll have a chance to influence its development and direction. Again. This is a steel-clad rule. So it's obvious that people that want to give that feedback are not happy about being deprieved of that chance while seeing it given to people that did nothing to deserve it and already proved to care less about the game.

4: I'm sure you'll be able to quote where I said that the game "is going to collapse" if I'm not there. Or better. No, you won't, because I didn't say it or anything even remotely comparable. Misrepresenting someone's argument because you can't counter it in its original form is called a "strawman argument". Needless to say, it makes your point void of any validity.

Do come back when you're able to express a concept without hyperbole.

5: you continue to try and steer the discourse towards the "you" (how much you love your personal attacks... but we already noticed that), but it's not about me. It's about a very sizable amount of people that supported the game for two years, and still their feedback is being considered and facilitated less than the feedback of those that ragequit after a month. Which is, in my opinion and in that of many others, not kosher. Again, it's really that simple.

6: If I have the right to criticize, why again are you here to antagonize me? because your continuous personal attacks say the contrary. Please do not contradict yourself.

7: The joke about the gobbue's big ass was indeed a joke. You need a sense of humor. And yes, second guessing your counterpart's motives in order to misrepresent their position like you continuously do is a personal attack. But you've been doing it since the start of the alpha, in between calling people "butthurt" and "crybabies", so I'm not all that surprised.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

You are such a failure at trashtalkingl

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No one is trashtalking kiddo. If you kept up with interviews you'd know that SE (Yoshi) started the Legacy program as a thank you, meaning they value the people who stuck around.

Whatever else the fuck you were going on about but I think you're the one that's just trying to stir something lol.

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and if there is a lack of content why is SE having such a hard tim

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They're not, hence why they even are inviting people or again do you just fail to read what the developers state? "We'll send invites if there's a drop off in login rates."

Login rates drops because of people who join alpha with the premise of playing and go through the limited content and no longer log in,

Yoshi said this himself, because it's quite common.

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applauding the team claiming the Alpha build has the quality of Beta.

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Therein lies the problem.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

More self-entitled BS, as usual

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Oh god, Abriael. You know, I actually do feel sorry for you. You are so intent on being "right" that you just can't see the forest for the trees. In a sad way, you really don't see how entitled and self absorbed you are really being. No, these are not personal attacks. There are criticisms. And quite founded ones, I might add. I really didn't even bother to read all your former post, because I'm willing to bet it's more of the same:

A. SE does not treat it's fanbase (i.e.: you) right because they (i.e.: you) didn't get into alpha as they (i,e,: you) wanted
B. Anyone who calls you out for being selt-absorbed and self-entitled is "attacking you"
C. Alpha absolutely cannot be effective unless all of FF14's fanbase (i.e.: you) are participating.

Please, stop. Just... stop. It's sad, and you're only making a mockery of yourself. I actually feel embarrassed for you. Look, despite your energetic claims otherwise, alpha can and will function without you. SE has people covering that. Your only gripe is that you're not one of those people. If you were, you'd have absolutely no problem with how SE deals with it's fanbase, despite the fact that other loyalists didn't get in. And you know it to be true, lol. Your posts are merely you ranting because you're frustrated. You really wanted to get into alpha. And I can respect that. I wanted to get in too. But throwing a hissy fit and saying SE is mistreating their fanbase (i.e.: you) because you didn't get in, I can't give even an ounce of respect to that.

Guess what? THIS IS NOT ABRIAEL'S WORLD. THIS IS EARTH. And on earth, things don't always go Abriael's way. You are no different from all the other people who didn't get into alpha, except for the fact that you whine about it more than anyone else. It's not necessary. You are not a vital part of testing the game. Yes, people in general are needed to test the game. But they have people there. Testing the game. And whether you think they deserve to or not, they're there because SE wants them, and not YOU, there. I know, it's a bitter pill to swallow. But buck up. Soon you'll get to play the full, entire version of the game. And besides, a little disappointment is actually good for you every now and again. Builds character.

Really, you need to relax. You are going to be okay. The game is not going anywhere. And there's always beta to look forward to. Just breathe in, breathe out. Breathe in, breathe out. It's alright, Abriael. The testing will go fine without your omniscient, omnipresent gaze looking at it through your computer screen. I know, such a thought is ludicrous to you, that you are not the most important person in the alpha process. But... yeah. Just. Relax.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

No one is trashtalking kiddo. If you kept up with interviews you'd know that SE (Yoshi) started the Legacy program as a thank you, meaning they value the people who stuck around.

Whatever else the fuck you were going on about but I think you're the one that's just trying to stir something lol.



They're not, hence why they even are inviting people or again do you just fail to read what the developers state? "We'll send invites if there's a drop off in login rates."

Login rates drops because of people who join alpha with the premise of playing and go through the limited content and no longer log in,

Yoshi said this himself, because it's quite common.



Therein lies the problem.

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You failed to read carefully what i typed too.. i listed all the "thank yous" as a reply to you claiming been legacy member entitled alpha access which is wrong..
And you said it yourself invites going out as log in rate drops but the log in rate didn't drop even half of what they estimated ..meaning a lot of people don't want to stop playing alpha meaning there is no lack of content or quality despite it been just a mere Alpha build...try harder next time

As we continue to beat this dead reindeer, the angry elf returns to give words and issues with layout discussion.

First off, Those of us who are still waiting on getting an alpha invite on Monday the last wave to go out & still are questioning the fact why we haven't received an invite yet. Its very disappointing & frustrating the process SE has chosen to deliver the invites. Come Monday with those of us who still didn't make it to Alpha, trust me those loyal/legacy players are going to be upset with SE, As I am right now with them. It just takes on the question "Will beta be delivered in the same way Alpha was delivered?"

Secondly, it really sucks having your girlfriend, friends, whole linkshell, dog, & cat , even Santa just slapping ARR: alpha right into your face every single day with things like, " You need play alpha its so awesome & lag less," " OMG, they have so much to do even with the 1-20 lvl cap," " I lot more mobs too." On top of that e-mail you screenshots, or a made video (which is breaking NDA rules). Just sucks because you know you want to be there exploring, testing, giving feedback & getting a feel of this new revamped game. Now on to issues:

Select Process: Alpha We know for a fact the selection was done in an unfair process which includes:
Inactive Final Fantasy XIV accounts: getting in and testing when the requirements clearly states CURRENTLY ACTIVE FINAL FANTASY XIV ACCOUNTS can apply, other players have tested this theory & some have came upfront about others getting in with an inactive FFXIV acct.
Players getting multiple invites for other accounts they own: in which keeps other players from getting an invite to play & test alpha.

SE could've opened extra servers so everyone who applied had a chance to see this new revamped game in alpha. As Yoshi stated "He wanted every one of his current players to experience." Just by refusing to open more than 3 servers & valuing those players who have stuck it through the rebuilding phase 1.0 to its ending destruction for transition & paid for game where we even felt we shouldn't be paying for this game at the time pay started but we did because we wanted to see ARR became reality.

SE needs to see they made flawed discussions in the selection process but they continue refuse to communicate with it players, instead, they continue to only give feedback to those on the Alpha forums over the regular forums. both forums should be treated equally not excluded from the other. :mad: Yoshi has made poor discussion & considerations to his players.

Beta: SE shouldn't be inviting Alpha players already to beta without closing Alpha servers first. Alpha testers shouldn't be grandfathered into beta because it will be unfair to players who didn't make Alpha where they have to reapply as the alpha players shouldn't when some of us think it'll be fair for those in alpha should also reapply. Upon that make it a percentage harder for Alpha players getting into beta. As players are being invited to beta already, seems we are having another problem brewing of unfair selection.

Legacy: Yes, we are getting a lower paying price than newcomers & a chocobo at the start of the game. SE needs to start communicating to those of us who are valued as loyal long-term players from day 1 to the end of playing 1.0. Begin to send invites to those of us that are legacy, along with those who never got legacy but they get to be in early Beta phases as well.

SE needs to value its current long-term players before getting inactive players involved as well as those who broke the NDA agreements. The only game I have noticed that does still value its players and is still the #1 MMO is WoW. So SE should think about its current players before Beta starts this time around.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

More personal attacks, because when you can't counter someone's points, all that's left is to attack him on a personal level

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A: You continue to try to steer the direction of the discussion towards me. Too bad it isn't about just me. But do keep on with the personal attacks.
B: If you can't debate on the arguments, but you have to shift the discourse on the person (calling him with negative adjectives like self-absorbed, self-entitled, crybaby, butthurt and so forth, as you have been doing with me and others since the beginning of the alpha) yes, you're attacking on a personal level. That's the very definition of it, and it's normally frowned upon.

C:

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Alpha absolutely cannot be effective unless all of FF14's fanbase (i.e.: you) are participating.

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Another strawman argument. I never said that "alpha absolutely cannot be effective", or anything even remotely similar. Really can't counter my points in their original form, mh?

The rest of your post is basically:

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU

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Only, It's not about me. The funniest part is that I'm not even fully part of the group I'm describing, since differently from others I did quit the game for a rather long period (and therefore I deserve to be in the alpha quite a lot less than a lot of others that are here and never quit the game from launch to today). If SE let into the alpha every single one between those than never quit the game and excluded everyone else (me included) I'd be perfectly ok with it.

In that case their priorities would still be set right, as the correct order of inviting should be: Those that stuck with the game from start to end -> Those that stuck with the game for a long time even though they left for a period -> Everyone else.

I'm perfectly relaxed. So relaxed that I don't even feel the need to attack you or anyone else here on a personal level, and continue to bring my arguments in a balanced and reasoned way.

On the other hand, it seems that the fact that someone dares to criticize SE's ways of selecting the testers makes you rage so much that you need to point your little finger at them and try your hardest to attack their person instead of attacking their position.

Well, sorry to burst a big bubble, but discussion doesn't work that way. You demonstrated over and over again that you have absolutely no way to counter my arguments, and need to shift the discussion against my person to try and hide that fact. The funny part is that you aren't even managing to irritate me, as I find your continuous finger pointing, aggression and strawman throwing amusing.

Of course this is not Abriael's world. Things don't always go Abriael's way, but being someone with a brain of his own, Abriael will express his opinion whether you like it or not. It's really that simple, and it's exactly what this forum is for.

That opinion is that Square Enix should have shown more consideration for their loyal fanbase (incidentally: "loyal" and "Loyalist" are two very different concepts. this isn't a civil war despite the fact that you seem to be very intent in turning it into one) providing them with a way to give direct feedback on the alpha before looking to bring in people that have not shown the same the degree of loyalty.

That opinion will not change, and I will continue to express it, no matter how much you attack my person because you can't attack the opinion itself.

I'll be looking forward to another reply of yours full of "you this" and "you that" :D

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Originally Posted by DarkkenMoneybags

SE needs to value its current long-term players before getting inactive players involved as well as those who broke the NDA agreements. The only game I have noticed that does still value its players and is still the #1 MMO is WoW. So SE should think about its current players before Beta starts this time around.

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This is a gigantic flaw with SE not only in FFXIV, but their state of thinking in general. Alienating their current fan base to please a new crowd has almost never worked in their favor.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

This is a gigantic flaw with SE not only in FFXIV, but their state of thinking in general. Alienating their current fan base to please a new crowd has almost never worked in their favor.

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To be fair SE isn't the only one guilty of that lately, not even nearly. They're just those for which it worked the worst.

Why is this thread still open?
All I see are a handful of angry people who refuse to understand what the alpha test was for and lots of frustrated people trying to explain simple facts to them over and over and over.

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Originally Posted by Thebard

Why is this thread still open?
All I see are a handful of angry people who refuse to understand what the alpha test was for and lots of frustrated people trying to explain simple facts to them over and over and over.

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I guess people just want to vent that they missed their chance to play literally like 5% of the game. I am honestly ashamed to be apart of this fanbase... It's so embarassing. This is the first alpha phase I've ever seen where people simply don't understand that it is meant to be a controlled environment, not some party that no-one is invited to or something...

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Originally Posted by Thebard

Why is this thread still open?
All I see are a handful of angry people who refuse to understand what the alpha test was for and lots of frustrated people trying to explain simple facts to them over and over and over.

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Even most alpha testers don't know what an alpha test is for. Very few actually go out and hunt for bugs to report, they treat it as an early demo.

bug hunting isn't even the most important thing in an alpha test, that's what a beta is for. Don't forget in an alpha test you only have maybe 5% of the game you can play or even less and many systems are just temporary and will get replaced anyway. It's basic testing about server stability and some other basic features.

Of course you want feedback but the major bughunting will be done during the beta anyway. Most of ppl complaining about not getting in just want to test out the game for theirselfes.

Even if they invited 1.0 players only there would not be room for everyone and these same people would still be crying the same song anyway. its simply not enough room for everyone regardless how SE decided to do the alpha but people cannot get that through their heads.

Playing 1.0 does not earn you the right to play alpha you got what you got for playing 1.0 already. Yoshi has stated since day one, his goal is regain players trust back to show them that his game he created is good enough to just do that and a lot of those people think so now.

Then you have the people yelling this bullshit about how they want to test the game so they can make it better, well buddy that is not what alpha is for its there just to stress the servers to the limit so they can see how far they can push the server limits.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Even if they invited 1.0 players only there would not be room for everyone and these same people would still be crying the same song anyway. its simply not enough room for everyone regardless how SE decided to do the alpha but people cannot get that through their heads.

Playing 1.0 does not earn you the right to play alpha you got what you got for playing 1.0 already. Yoshi has stated since day one, his goal is regain players trust back to show them that his game he created is good enough to just do that and a lot of those people think so now.

Then you have the people yelling this bullshit about how they want to test the game so they can make it better, well buddy that is not what alpha is for its there just to stress the servers to the limit so they can see how far they can push the server limits.

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Yeah and I find it funny because most likely those same people will make the game worse given a chance.

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

I guess people just want to vent that they missed their chance to play literally like 5% of the game. I am honestly ashamed to be apart of this fanbase... It's so embarassing. This is the first alpha phase I've ever seen where people simply don't understand that it is meant to be a controlled environment, not some party that no-one is invited to or something...

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I agree. The Japanese players must be horrified at the English players' behavior. It is shameful.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Alpha: let the plebs try a watered down version of ARR

Beta: Let all the Legacy members/1.0 people back in

Save the best for last. I'd be getting all bent out of shape if I was not getting a Beta invite. Alpha is just...Alpha. @.@

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I dunno, objectively you sound a little bitter about alpha saying it like THAT. If you had said the alpha line with a little more tact I wouldn't have gotten that impression. Just saying!

Not saying you're wrong. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by MrKupo

I guess people just want to vent that they missed their chance to play literally like 5% of the game. I am honestly ashamed to be apart of this fanbase... It's so embarassing. This is the first alpha phase I've ever seen where people simply don't understand that it is meant to be a controlled environment, not some party that no-one is invited to or something...

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I think the frustration people are having is fear that this is how SE is going to pick people for beta. I don't think people are necessarily butt hurt they didn't get alpha, its more that they see that is how SE does their selection and worry that they won't participate till way later in beta testing, where feedback for the content itself matters. I think people are arguing two different subjects at each other. Will be very quiet in here if SE came out and said "This is how we are going to pick people for beta...yada yada yada.". Well...not quiet, people will just talk about that.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

This is a gigantic flaw with SE not only in FFXIV, but their state of thinking in general. Alienating their current fan base to please a new crowd has almost never worked in their favor.

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Baseless self-entitlement is high on this one...

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Baseless self-entitlement is high on this one...

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A bit, but there is some truth in that. It's very hard to keep a fan base interested without anything tangible to try. Releasing alpha videos, sure lifted some frustration, created more problems than it solved. People got a nice sneak peek at the aspects included in alpha but then everyone started taking it seriously like it was the final product and nitpicked it to death. It scared a lot of the player base.

We all want to keep playing the game that we've been playing, and change scares people. I predict that there will be some measure of loss in the current fan base, but we'll gain new fans in return. The thing that scares me the most is people going to other games in this long long gap between 1.0 and 2.0.

There is a big difference between fanbase of the game and the active posters in a few forums that didnt get invited.

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Originally Posted by Cedri

A bit, but there is some truth in that. It's very hard to keep a fan base interested without anything tangible to try. Releasing alpha videos, sure lifted some frustration, created more problems than it solved. People got a nice sneak peek at the aspects included in alpha but then everyone started taking it seriously like it was the final product and nitpicked it to death. It scared a lot of the player base.

We all want to keep playing the game that we've been playing, and change scares people. I predict that there will be some measure of loss in the current fan base, but we'll gain new fans in return. The thing that scares me the most is people going to other games in this long long gap between 1.0 and 2.0.

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That might be the case..but SE giving the first month of ARR free will be the perfect solution for that

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Originally Posted by Firon

Even if they invited 1.0 players only there would not be room for everyone and these same people would still be crying the same song anyway. its simply not enough room for everyone regardless how SE decided to do the alpha but people cannot get that through their heads.

Playing 1.0 does not earn you the right to play alpha you got what you got for playing 1.0 already. Yoshi has stated since day one, his goal is regain players trust back to show them that his game he created is good enough to just do that and a lot of those people think so now.

Then you have the people yelling this bullshit about how they want to test the game so they can make it better, well buddy that is not what alpha is for its there just to stress the servers to the limit so they can see how far they can push the server limits.

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I'm sure you have all the data necessary to demonstrate that there isn't enough room for what little was left of the active FFXIV community on the alpha test. Actually no. I'm quite sure you don't.

Reality is that FFXIV has a very small community compared to basically every other major MMORPG, so arguing that fitting everyone in, in the case no inactives were invited (as clearly stated by SE), would have been impossible is honestly ridiculous.

They didn't even need to invite everyone in at the same time so your point doens't really find any application in reality. This isn't WoW, and there aren't 9 million people to find room for.

What Yoshida says is relevant only to a point. While I'm supportive of him like the next guy, and contrary to what some here seem to think, he can make mistakes (like inviting everyone and his mother to the final event, ruining it for everyone. Rings a bell?), so his position is subject to criticism like that of any game developer.

The alpha showcases all the basic systems of the game, and they're fully open to feedback about them, no matter what the primary goal of the test is.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Baseless self-entitlement is high on this one...

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It's more reality. Square Enix is one of those Japanese publishers that tried the hardest to change the way they make their games and their themes in order to please "new crowds", alienating part of their older fans. As Velhart said quite clearly, it never really worked well for them, as the rather lackluster reception of every game of the FFXIII series shows.

Marketing teaches that expansion (even radical operations like a rebranding) should always be strongly based on the solid ground of the core customer base. Alienating your core fanbase almost never works.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I'm sure you have all the data necessary to demonstrate that there isn't enough room for what little was left of the active FFXIV community on the alpha test. Actually no. I'm quite sure you don't.

Reality is that FFXIV has a very small community compared to basically every other major MMORPG, so arguing that fitting everyone in, in the case no inactives were invited (as clearly stated by SE), would have been impossible is honestly ridiculous.

They didn't even need to invite everyone in at the same time so your point doens't really find any application in reality. This isn't WoW, and there aren't 9 million people to find room for.

What Yoshida says is relevant only to a point. While I'm supportive of him like the next guy, and contrary to what some here seem to think, he can make mistakes (like inviting everyone and his mother to the final event, ruining it for everyone. Rings a bell?), so his position is subject to criticism like that of any game developer.

The alpha showcases all the basic systems of the game, and they're fully open to feedback about them, no matter what the primary goal of the test is.



It's more reality. Square Enix is one of those Japanese publishers that tried the hardest to change the way they make their games and their themes in order to please "new crowds", alienating part of their older fans. As Velhart said quite clearly, it never really worked well for them, as the rather lackluster reception of every game of the FFXIII series shows.

Marketing teaches that expansion (even radical operations like a rebranding) should always be strongly based on the solid ground of the core customer base. Alienating your core fanbase almost never works.

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Again the main scope of the alpha test was to mainly see if they could achieve 1k npc's/pc's in one area so the need of the entire 40k FFXIV player base is not needed. You just need to admit you are sulking cause you did not get in, the final event has nothing to do with this at all your just grasping at straws now.

Also to note FF 13 has had a big enough fan base for 3 games so that's not true.

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I'm sure you have all the data necessary to demonstrate that there isn't enough room for what little was left of the active FFXIV community on the alpha test. Actually no. I'm quite sure you don't.

Reality is that FFXIV has a very small community compared to basically every other major MMORPG, so arguing that fitting everyone in, in the case no inactives were invited (as clearly stated by SE), would have been impossible is honestly ridiculous.

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But you have the Informations about everyting to say there is enough room for everyone. I bet SE told you how many active acounts they have and how many ppl they invited and how high the server capacity are for the alpha. Yesterday you complained about ppl making statistic etc. and you do the same without any facts.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

But you have the Informations about everyting to say there is enough room for everyone. I bet SE told you how many active acounts they have and how many ppl they invited and how high the server capacity are for the alpha. Yesterday you complained about ppl making statistic etc. and you do the same without any facts.

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but the facts!!!

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Originally Posted by Firon

Again the main scope of the alpha test was to mainly see if they could achieve 1k npc's/pc's in one area so the need of the entire 40k FFXIV player base is not needed. You just need to admit you are sulking cause you did not get in, the final event has nothing to do with this at all your just grasping at straws now.

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I don't need to "admit" something not true just because it'd please you. Sorry to burst a bubble. Mind you, you do not know the numbers of the "entire FFXIV player base", and the 40k number is something you pulled out of thin air.

Even if it was anywhere near to a realistic number, fitting 40k players in three servers when you use staggered invites and you could even easily implement a hard turnover is nowhere near an impossible task. They don't need to be all online at the same time.

Primary goals aren't the *only* goals, and asking anyone currently in the alpha will easily grant you the knowledge that they have been taking feedback on all the aspects of the game. That's why alpha forums exist.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

But you have the Informations about everyting to say there is enough room for everyone. I bet SE told you how many active acounts they have and how many ppl they invited and how high the server capacity are for the alpha. Yesterday you complained about ppl making statistic etc. and you do the same without any facts.

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Aside from the fact that they did tell us the server capacity of the alpha if you din't notice, the fact that the active population of FFXIV is low is a fact in front of everyone's eyes. We saw it very clearly on the last days before the save, when everyone was scrambling to complete the last achievements. Servers were still a ghost town compared to every major MMO out there. There are ways to count population online at any given time, if you din't notice (it's called search).

It doesn't take any stretch of the imagination to know that using staggered invites and/or a possible turnover would have most probably made room for everyone.

Even if staggered invites weren't enough (unlikely, but lets assume), a turnover invariably solves the problem. All you have to do is to limit each user's access to the alpha to a certain number of days (say 10). After that, his access is revoked to make room to the next guy.

Given that the content of the alpha is very limited, 10 days (but even less) are plenty to test it throughly and provide feedback, and this way you easily multiply the available room by a lot, while giving everyone a fair chance.

Mind you. If they wanted to be fair they could still do something like that. On monday they could rescind access to everyone that was invited to the alpha before December the 10th (since they already had plenty time to playtest and provide feedback) and use those slots to give access to everyone within the active userbase that didn't get it yet. Of course no further inactives should be invited.

Simple, fair, everyone gets a chance to provide feedback.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Baseless self-entitlement is high on this one...

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This has nothing to do with me. Square-Enix even before FFXIV has shifted a lot of elements in their popular franchises to attempt to please a new crowd, and all they end up accomplishing is disappointing their current fan base.

This whole time I've been trying to help Square develop this game into something great. The fact that I was barred out of a critical testing phase is a little disheartening I'll admit. I hope I can get in for beta.

This guys is just so butt hurt he will just not let it go, if they was gonna invite everyone there would not have been an phase where you need to apply. Everyone knew from the get go that everyone was not getting in so just stop saying they could have done this, they don't need every single player they can muster for this phase if they did it would have been an OPEN alpha.

Yoshi-p has stated he understand everyone wants to give feedback but he does not need everyone's feedback for alpha.