We need another Housing purge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiaque

Oh really? Then go do it. Whats stopping you, or everyone else complaining? Why has it not been done yet? Or, has it been done, but no results? If that is so, then is it really the better result?

You are making excuses like I stated, people would do, and stating of "Better, other ways" without saying what they are, because in truth, you simply do not know of any other way that would actually work.

MMOs are a business. If a massive amount of players all make a large enough outcry to get critical attention, it will be responded to and dealt with in the best way they believe will preserve profits. In this case, if enough players stated how unfair the situation is to the point it makes them feel like their subscriptions isnt valued thus will cancel subs *specially since if they had a house, they would keep a sub up more to be able to keep the house* then it will cause, massive attention.

Logic, use it. While you are at it, factor in the one base sin 99 percent of humans all have, Greed.

---

First use your own advice and read my posts, I have not complained but help people understand the system. Also not making excuses breaking the rules does not solve problems. I can name two instances were people tried to use a mmos ticket/report system to change things and recieved a ban for it, this game being one of the two MMO's. Lastly.. two wrongs don't make a right...logic

If people want a change too the system keep this thread alive and more like it. Start pensions to send SE just don't here about it. It work for wow classic it can work here, just don't expect quick results. On mobile so that is I posted twice sorry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hamada

Remember this:

We have posted proof on 1. How cat person exploited the system, they explained how, even advised people to buy FC house not personal so they can resell it, and as this quote points out, shows cat was having a negative impact to the community. The player base should not be begging moderators and GMs to uphold their own ToS, they should uphold it based on the reports they get. We clearly see that not being done, especially in light of someone bragging what they did to exploit the system, leaves me confused.



I disagree with the idea of letting people break the rules just because a lot of players do, it magically makes it ok


2.1 is part of the ToS is there for a reason. I disagree people need to be that babied they can't see what is right and wrong. SE ingoring the NA playerbase is a different issue, and was a problem since ARR, you can't use that as a defense to break the rules. Also remember cat in this thread TOLD poeple to buy FC house so you can resell it since you can't do that to personal since they need to buy the land again, while yoshi-P said DO NOT RESELL PLOTS! There is NO EXCUSE to that rule breaking.

---

Maybe I am not explain myself properly. Seeking a change to the system is different from asking SE to punish players for actions they have left go unchecked. This question will help you understand where I am coming from, would you be okay if SE punished players for past ToS violations because they made the choice to enforce that rule within the ToS properly? Or would you prefer they made a statement accepting responsibility that their lax enforcement of the rules created an environment they are not proud of and moving forward any ToS violation will be handled with the proper punishment.

Once again, asking for a change in the system is cool, but asking for SE to punish players for because of their inaction is not justice or upholding the rules. At the very least they take a visible action against bots, and have made public official statements on the forums and load stone. You cannot ask SE to pick and choose which aspect of the ToS they enforce and punish retroactively, and that is what you are doing. If you want SE to punish players retroactively because of 2.1 then you are also asking SE to punish players that have broken other violations in the past if they can find supporting evidence of it.

I do not think many players support the idea of being punished retroactively. Which is what you are asking SE to do, punish players for doing something they "claim" to be against yet have never made an official forum post regarding the issue. So how are players to know? Every housing statement has been in the form of a live letter response or some interview. That LB bug SE made an official forum response since they felt it was a major issue. I have yet to see an official forum response regarding the the buying and selling of houses, or the work around people have used to gain multiple plots. If they did not like such actions so much don't you think they would have made an official response akin to the LB exploit.

Also the personal FC house happens because the value of an FC house far outweighs a personal one. Remove that value and the desire for more multiple plots is reduced greatly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rogatum

Maybe I am not explain myself properly. Seeking a change to the system is different from asking SE to punish players for actions they have left go unchecked. This question will help you understand where I am coming from, would you be okay if SE punished players for past ToS violations because they made the choice to enforce that rule within the ToS properly?

---

I answered your question, several posts in several ways. How you are explaining things is not the issue. I will not accept the idea of the excuse of breaking a rule is "was not enforced hard enough so we can do it again" So why are you breaking it in the first place? To see if you can get away with it?

I am not asking for a change, I am asking SE to uphold their ToS and to uphold what was said in this video:
https://youtu.be/BJwPCxau7CA?t=334
I do not accept your idea defending rule breaking because people got away with it so we can do it more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hamada

I answered your question, several posts in several ways. How you are explaining things is not the issue. I will not accept the idea of the excuse of breaking a rule is "was not enforced hard enough so we can do it again" So why are you breaking it in the first place? To see if you can get away with it?

I am not asking for a change, I am asking SE to uphold their ToS and to uphold what was said in this video:
https://youtu.be/BJwPCxau7CA?t=334
I do not accept your idea defending rule breaking because people got away with it so we can do it more.

---

When a rule is not enforced and goes unpunished for a long time it can easily become the norm. Using third party mods is against the ToS but because they cannot punish people for using it people use it and it is the norm in the raiding community. Rules are worthless without enforcement. It is the enforcement that grants them power.

I think it has to be with how I am explaining it since you have yet to answer the question that explains where I am coming from. Would you be okay if they did the same thing for other ToS violations like cursing, where they went back and punished players for cursing in the past? That is what you are asking them to punish players for something they have ignored for the longest time. You know how many people would be punished if they went back and enforced every ToS violation someone has made in the past? I do not know you but I am sure at the very least someone you know and enjoy playing the game with has said something that a reasonable person would find offensive. If they went with your idea of punishing players for ToS violation your friend would be punished.

I am also not defending rule breaking per-se, I just do not think it is fair to ask SE to punish players without giving them a proper a response / warning about the issue. Make an official post on the loadstone, launcher and forums stating that moving forward they will be enforcing their ToS properly. Past violations will not be held against you only ones made moving forward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rogatum

Still did not answering the question, would you be okay if they did the same thing for other ToS violations like cursing, where they went back and punished players for cursing in the past? That is what you are asking them to punish players for something they have ignored for the longest time.

---

Again, your question was answered:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

Moral High ground? For being against something that hurts other players?

At least Yoshida has stated that he does not want it and seemingly this is completely in the hand of the GMs. In the end they probably wont do much against sources outside of the game but who knows how they do that ingame. About cursing: You do know that people have been banned from the forums and even got punishment ingame if someone reported them even if they meant the cursing as fun? GM will do something when someone reports the person.

I pick this because unlike cursing (we have a filter) which is still punished if told, parser and cosmedic mods, buying x amount of houses hurts players because its a limited resource. Also yes its not our job and we cant enforce it..but bringing this to the attention of SE can be done. Alot of those that have big amount of houses also often brought the attention to themselves, either by behaving badly ingame, by forum posting or by giving interviews. They then should accept if they get negative feedback about this.
If you know I am also someone that is against selling content for real money, using exploids in content and I want SE to have a clear stand with their ToS (dont punish people for talking about numbers thanks to parser but turn a blind eye on streamers with it). I am going after the housing aspect because its the topic. Its that simple. If there is another topic (which did happen in the past) that is against the ToS and even hurt players, I am posting my opinion too.

Everyone has their own line where its crossed. For some its already cursing, for others its housing, for another person its bug exploiding and someone hates them all. And all of them are in their right if its against the ToS. If you are in the end fine that someone has over 16 houses in a game that has limited amounts of them, then thats fine. Others dont need to accept it and can post their opinion about it.

---

Please stop repeating your questions because you do not like my replies. I gave a video link on what Yoshi-P said, several times. I do not accept sitting here reading someone post to others how to break 2.1, how to exploit the rules, and bragging how they obtain houses in an illegal manner, and finally I will not accept people trying to spin and twist the situation to something different to defend people acting in immoral ways. You shouldn't even need a ToS over the idea not to take advantage of people, SE has made it VERY CLEAR they do not stand for it, and it goes back to when Yoshi-P played an MMO for the first time and how he got ripped off from the old trade and cancel trick. Also I quoted Alleo's quote in full that may answer any other repeated questions you have for me that may be answered in it and in my recent posts I made to you.

I wouldn't bother trying to get an answer out of him.

They will not give you a straight answer, just accept it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliverB

I wouldn't bother trying to get an answer out of him.

---

That signature lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awha

They will not give you a straight answer, just accept it.



That signature lol

---

Want one??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rogatum

My concern is if SE was as hard as you want them to be when it came to the ToS the game would become barren. .

---

I want SE to at least go against those that hurt the community with their actions. Which people do, by buying houses (a limited resource) and selling it for way too much (which might even create more RMT money). That does not mean that it would be fine if they punish people for the smallest things but its their rules, so if they say that any kind of cursing is against their ToS then people simply have to stick to the rules. And if they say that since x day we wont allow reshade and wont turn a blind eye on parsers with streamers than it would be fine too because again its their game.

So if they go and state that x will be punishable from 10 days in the future then nobody can complain because its their rules. And if they suddenly go very nitpicky about it then its also on them to do that. Again I want a clear (and if necessary strict) enforcement of their rules. Say what is fine and what is not and coach your GM in this..so that people on one hand wont be punished for telling others about parsers and their numbers while they all completely ignore all the top raiders and streamers..

The same with housing. If you are against it then do something and they at least did it. But I am a bit surprised that this seemingly only stayed for a short amount of time..so maybe more outrage, more topics about this might give them enough reasons to finally enforce this forever.

About grandfathered: I am not a fan that people were able to keep all the houses that went over the max amount but at least SE stated that these would be handled that way. So its clear that they did not want to punish them because there had been no rule against owning x houses. But then they changed the rule but only kept the technical part about owning just one FC house for a short amount of time. So is the rule itself still active or not? Are any of those homes that people got by account transfering while the rule was active not against it?