The Monk Temple

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

I don't aoe on t4 anymore unless it looks like our dps is low but with tank threat buff our bards and mages can AoE hard so thats not an issue.

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ditto. i've always figured that i was brought along for my single target dps, not sub-standard AoE. during the short AoE phases of t4, they usually use me to kinda "even out" the hp of mobs that may not be dying as fast as the others.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

Hydra, t1, almost t2, t4 (way worse now that I can stance change on soldiers), t5 before divebombs (unless I get conflag)

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T1 I get low on by the end usually, but I never have to stop and wait. That's with 1 or 0 slug burn. If your group DPS is too low to do that, chance are you're getting paeon.

T2 I'm not sure how you are ever getting anywhere near low. Too much stuff to dodge on that fight to ever run out of TP. Even if you do the lolenrage mode where he sits there like a target dummy, it'll die well before you run out of TP unless your group sucks.

T4 Pace yourself. Only Rockbreaker if you have a bard who is going to use paeon. I am usually low by the end of the fight but I don't run out. Just need to adjust to the pace of the fight and the party makeup.

T5 If your group's DPS is good, you should be to divebomb phase before you run out of TP (if your group is doing 5 conflags instead of pushing through only 4, you may need to slow down a tad). Your second invigorate should be up by then, too, and you can go into snakes phase with at least around 2/3rds of your TP which is plenty for the rest of the fight.

You are way exaggerating how easy it is to just magically accidentally run out of TP and how harmful it is long term.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

Of course I never truly run out of TP. I do get TP restricted though and I have to wait for ticks before I can use my next ability.

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That is running out of TP.

These have probably been asked and answered so many times it's ridiculous, sorry:

1. What's the general consensus on Perfect Balance? The highest DPS MNK I know reasons it's best used to avoid the ramp-up at the beginning of a fight, and if used early you can almost always have another one up. It makes sense to avoid the ramp-up, as it SEEMS like it would be a bigger DPS increase than when ramped up using it for the highest DPS attacks possible, but I've only been an end-game MNK for a few weeks now. Also, what're the highest 2.1 rotations for both ramp-up and when just trying to push out more DPS? Assume all buffs are up for the DPS method.

2. On trash, 2 to 4 enemies worth, what is the proper way to maximize DPS? I've been trying to multi-DoT as much as possible within reason, something like against 3 enemies, Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Demolish > (next enemy) Dragon Kick > ToD > True Strike > Demolish > (next enemy) Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > ToD > Demolish > (original enemy) standard rotations until all are dead.

3. What's the general rule for if an opponent is almost dead to skip Dragon Kick and/or Twin Snakes? Dead within two attacks, three attacks, four attacks from when you should have buffed?

4. I'm guessing Fracture is a good DPS increase in fights where you won't go dry? As far as I understand ID is now nigh-useless, but this is still worth using in easy content right?

Thanks.

1) Before 2.1 I only used Perfect Balance as a "recovery" skill for if I lost GL3 (like heart phase of titan or other "jumps" on primals, etc.), generally not as an opener, because I would risk pulling hate if I used PB right at the start. Tank threat is better after 2.1 so I use it as an opener a lot more. PB > Demo+Snap2x || Snap3x > DK > Twin Snakes > PB wears off, start normal rotation to ensure GL3 doesn't fall off > DK/BS > True Strike > Demo || Snap > ToD > etc. Save your cooldowns like IR and BfB for after you get GL3 up.

2) Proper way to maximize DPS is single target burn them down so the healer can DPS! If there are 3+ enemies I will use Rockbreaker. Depending on movement I may toss DoTs on other targets, but don't do that at the expense of your rotation. You're not a summoner.

3) General rule is you shouldn't have to ask about this because it doesn't really matter. Make it dead and do what you can to not lose GL3.

4) Fracture is alright in fights where you won't go dry. I keep it on my bar but don't use it frequently. I use it on Titan a lot because of so much movement, good for throwing on before moving for bombs and so on.

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

4) Fracture is alright in fights where you won't go dry. I keep it on my bar but don't use it frequently. I use it on Titan a lot because of so much movement, good for throwing on before moving for bombs and so on.

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I disagree. You should be using fracture on every boss encounter in the game. The ones that make you go dry you just have to know when during the fight to stop using it so you don't go dry.

So numbers back me up on running out of TP... all I get from you guys is lrn2play noob.

As for fracture guy... /sigh

Merry Christmas to all my fellow monks. Keep in hitting like a truck

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

I disagree. You should be using fracture on every boss encounter in the game. The ones that make you go dry you just have to know when during the fight to stop using it so you don't go dry.

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There are many targets/phases where Fracture is not a good skill to be using because of the high TP cost or because of preserving GL stacks. However, as is the case with Touch of Death, it's a good skill to toss on anything that's going to soak its duration when you can afford the TP. Places where I find it is useful to have include:
Primals, to DPS while you or the target is moving.
Turn 2 ADS because you should have plenty of TP.
Turn 4 on dreadnaughts maybe, pending your group's DPS.
Turn 5 on Twintania in final two phases since it gives you some damage while you are moving around for twisters/dreadknights/fireballs.
CT bosses like King Behemoth and Acheron, toss it on with your other DoTs before hiding for meteor/flare.

Have a question regarding accesories, I got in an argument with a fellow Monk who told me not to get my myth accesories because crafted one, fully melded, are better than any of the ilvl 90, I disagreed stating that losing 24 STR is not a good idea, currently he has 83 more Det, 35 Crit Rate and a bit more SS, but I have 23 more STR. Doesn't 23 STR carry more weight than those other stats?

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

CT bosses like King Behemoth and Acheron, toss it on with your other DoTs before hiding for meteor/flare.

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I've never understood this logic. Either the dot is worth including in your rotation because it increases DPS or efficiency, or it isn't. I fail to see how disconnecting from the boss has anything to do with it.

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Originally Posted by kaox_reaper

Have a question regarding accesories, I got in an argument with a fellow Monk who told me not to get my myth accesories because crafted one, fully melded, are better than any of the ilvl 90, I disagreed stating that losing 24 STR is not a good idea, currently he has 83 more Det, 35 Crit Rate and a bit more SS, but I have 23 more STR. Doesn't 23 STR carry more weight than those other stats?

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In those large numbers the secondary stats do pull ahead of the Str, however it is not by much at all, almost not even noticeable for the much much higher price cost.
With the weights i'm using I get 24 points for the Det+crit and 23 for the Str, didn't throw in SS numbers cause not sure how much exactly. You can see though its hardly noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I've never understood this logic. Either the dot is worth including in your rotation because it increases DPS or efficiency, or it isn't. I fail to see how disconnecting from the boss has anything to do with it.

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You are apparently not a stupid player. Good for you.


On other topics:

- Fracture is virtually not worth using anymore. It's possible to add Fractures on off-ToD DK cycles, but dealing with the added complexity for literally +1 DPS sustained is silly, nevermind the TP costs.

- Also, for the person asking about multi-dotting, yes you should toss a Demolish on every target in a multi-target pull. ToD only if the mob will last a while (this means in a general fight you'll not want to ToD the primary target since it will drop relatively quickly, but you do want to ToD the off-targets, or maybe just the last target).

I just beat Twintania a few nights ago, so here's what I can say about TP conservation in that fight and what I do:

-I only use Fracture when I have either Blood for Blood and/or Internal Release on, never without buffs. If at all possible try to time you buffs to fit in all your DoTs so they can be on the cycle (same thing with off GCD skills like Howling Fist and Steal Peak, which I save for burst during buff times, or whenever they pop if I know they'll be ready before buffs are available again)
-Perfect Balance immediately on the dragon adds at the beginning to get going and just Shoulder Tackle over to Twin after they're dead. You'll have PB ready again by the time conflags start just in case you get targeted. Additionally, it'll likely be ready about the time where you have to burst down the big snake before her big limit break. If you're struggling with killing the big snake (Asclepias?) before her limit break, pop a Mega-Potion of STR when all the mini snakes are dead and she has the debuff. The additional 60-some strength does wonders, especially if everyone in your group is popping potions. Your potion will also then be ready about the time you get down to the last 15% of her life when you need to burn her fast. We did an attempt and got her down to 1% and she hit her enrage timer and killed us... needless to say we were pretty upset, and potions could have helped.
-You will find yourself needing to use Invigorate after 2-3 rotations when you get to Twin after the dragons. Use it then and around the first conflag or so when the necklace breaks, have your Bard do TP song for just a little while, which will tide you over until divebombs start. Really just having it on for 30-45 seconds will give you what you need to last until you get a little break, and after that it shouldn't be much of an issue.
-Stay on the big snake the whole time during that phase. Let your mages kill the little ones so you can get as much damage in on the big guy. Kill the right little snake first, move back for divebombs, kill the second snake during or after divebombs quickly, run up with the big snake to intercept the other little ones coming across the map, let the BLM aoe Limit Break the other snakes, and help finish the little ones off if need be. MAKE SURE to try and avoid their death explosions, which puts a debuff on you. Remember to pop those potions!
-When Dreadknights start spawning, run away from where they pop so you don't get targeted and jailed close, and ALWAYS Shoulder Tackle over to them. The lowered CD on this move was the difference maker in this fight. Shoulder Tackle + Steal Peak + PLD/WAR stun should make all of them easy work.

Uhh, there's probably other things but I'm forgetting them. Just always make sure you are mindful of using extra abilities off GCD properly and smartly, work on your timing with your buff schedule, don't rely on Fracture every time it drops off (same thing with Touch of Death sometimes, if I have to let it stay off for a few seconds because BFB or IR is about to get ready, leave it off), and just maximize your positioning and TP coordination with a Bard. No bard? Well, uh, good luck I guess! It's not that hard, just hope for a conflag I guess =) Or just take it a bit slower.

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Originally Posted by Riot55

-When Dreadknights start spawning, run away from where they pop so you don't get targeted and jailed close, and ALWAYS Shoulder Tackle over to them. The lowered CD on this move was the difference maker in this fight. Shoulder Tackle + Steal Peak + PLD/WAR stun should make all of them easy work.

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That is actually not the smartest thing to do, your shoulder tackle stuns it for 2 seconds and trigger diminishing returns, doing that turns a possibly 9 second stun chain into 5-6, while it may be enough for some groups, others might struggle.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

It literally can't negatively affect your total DPS. The only way it could possibly do so is if it actually subtracted out damage you should be doing. It doesn't do this, even on the occasions that you TP starve. If you're TP starved, the damage that you think is being subtracted out isn't, it's damage that you did earlier than you normally could have.

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It can have a negative impact (literally lowering your dps) as DoTs are unaffected, and are your most efficient skills. Furthermore, your buff timers are unaffected, leading to greater clipping of buffs like GL.

Let me stress that this is a very, VERY minor effect, and won't even matter until you get bone dry, but SS DOES lead to TP inefficiency and therefore DPS loss if TP is the constraint.

Because the creators of this game STILL haven't made SS affect resource generation, because they are ridiculous. This is one fact I won't back down from.

EDIT: oops, I just realized I replied to something way back when instead of on the last page.

Oh well D= Merry christmas!

Not only DoT but also Auto-Attack, your major source of DPS (over 30% DPS from Auto-Attack) while Determination and Critical Hit affect Auto-Attack.

Do u guys think that in later future version update that will get some Of our traits back? Like HP bonus as a passive trait, focus maybe as a TP regen and or boost. I know we have dodge ( feather foot ), second wind ( chakra), and we also have our martial art in the firm of grease lightning.

I don't think so.

I would have loved to have a defensive stance (with fist of earth giving more tools to generate enmity) and get whistle back too.

But i think it will be for a new class crossed to MNK, maybe NIN.

Yeah that would actually work in the case of cross class. So long as I can use it for monk then I'll b golden.

With the increase in potency on true strike, how many of u Mnks actually use it now DURING PB?

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Originally Posted by Butcherb0y

With the increase in potency on true strike, how many of u Mnks actually use it now DURING PB?

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If you pop Internal Release, True Strike should have a slightly higher average damage per attack, somewhere in the range of 230 crit-adjusted, than the guaranteed 225 Potency without crit chance Bootshine gets, but it's close. I guess it's a matter of Bootshine's consistency (nice for burst phases where you don't want to go lower accidentally) vs Truestrike's higher damage on average with the capability of doing significantly higher DPS with a few semi-lucky crits, something Bootshine can't do.

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Originally Posted by Butcherb0y

With the increase in potency on true strike, how many of u Mnks actually use it now DURING PB?

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I do, just before I pop PB, I'll weave IR and B4B in DK>TW>SP, then pop a potion, hit PB and go SP, TSx2, TW, DK, then go back into my Bootshine rotation.

Yeah I'm not home yet and won't b till February 5th so I won't b able to test my new rotation. I'm looking into at start of boss. ST TOD DK SNAKE DEMOLISH(rear) IR BFB PB SP( for gl2) TRUEX2 SNAKE DK. I surely miss ID since I manage to weave it in BOOT and STRIKE. Since the buff on twin snake last for 15sec now what is the minimum req. for skill speed?

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Originally Posted by Butcherb0y

Yeah I'm not home yet and won't b till February 5th so I won't b able to test my new rotation. I'm looking into at start of boss. ST TOD DK SNAKE DEMOLISH(rear) IR BFB PB SP( for gl2) TRUEX2 SNAKE DK. I surely miss ID since I manage to weave it in BOOT and STRIKE. Since the buff on twin snake last for 15sec now what is the minimum req. for skill speed?

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Unless I'm misreading, won't that rotation leave you in raptor form with only 2 stacks of GL?

Yeah lol I never did finish. AFTER PB I'll do DK snake sp for gl3 then boot strike demo( refresh DM) Frac tod

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I've never understood this logic. Either the dot is worth including in your rotation because it increases DPS or efficiency, or it isn't. I fail to see how disconnecting from the boss has anything to do with it.

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Meteor is on its way. You'll be busy with bombs/giant after that. You already have your Demolish and ToD on the boss. Do you throw one more Twin Snakes on your way out, or do you say screw the rotation that you didn't have time to really ramp up this time, anyway, and toss a Fracture before you run? I'd toss the Fracture. That shouldn't be hard to understand, but it is situational.

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

Do you throw one more Twin Snakes on your way out, or do you say screw the rotation that you didn't have time to really ramp up this time, anyway, and toss a Fracture before you run? I'd toss the Fracture. That shouldn't be hard to understand, but it is situational.

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That decision has nothing to do with whether Fracture is a DoT or not. It has to do with "what are your highest damage-per-GCD options when you have 1 GCD left to use". Fracture is a good choice. True Strike is almost as good for raw damage but with a much lower TP cost and benefit of advancing stances.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

That decision has nothing to do with whether Fracture is a DoT or not. It has to do with "what are your highest damage-per-GCD options when you have 1 GCD left to use". Fracture is a good choice.

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That's my point.

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True Strike is almost as good for raw damage but with a much lower TP cost and benefit of advancing stances.

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Stance advancement may or may not matter, depends on your GL and how far you have to run for a safe spot. Of course, you may be better off with either TS attack for the form advancement before you run so you can have a demo/snap ready to go to refresh GL as soon as more adds spawn. Again, it's situational. TP is a non-issue on the fight in this example, at least in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

*snip*

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You have all day to hit the boss. You have a choice between two attacks. One is 220 potency over 18 seconds; the other is 220 potency all up-front at the same TP cost. Which do you choose? Doesn't matter, because they do the same damage.

You have to dodge the boss's next attack. Same choice between the dot and the up-front. Still doesn't matter which you choose, because they're still the same damage.

You have to dodge the next attack. You have to choose between Fracture and Twin Snake. Now there's an actual choice, because Fracture is more damage at the cost of TP; you weigh your options and decide which attack to do.

You have all day to hit the boss, again choosing between Fracture and Twin Snake. The same choice exists between the two, as the same relevant factors are present. Fracture is still more damage for more TP.

If you're going to say that you'd Fracture when having to run away but not Fracture when standing still, you're going to have to explain why. I understand that dodging directly affects how much TP you have at any given time, but you only stated this as a factor in why you use it on T2. In all your other examples, you said it was to dps while moving, but that makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

If you're going to say that you'd Fracture when having to run away but not Fracture when standing still, you're going to have to explain why.

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But I never said that I'd not use it when standing still.

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I understand that dodging directly affects how much TP you have at any given time, but you only stated this as a factor in why you use it on T2. In all your other examples, you said it was to dps while moving, but that makes no sense.

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In those other fights I mentioned it's because of the required movement resulting in no TP shortage that you can afford Fracture, at which point it's a skill you can work into your rotation for position-agnostic damage (which is also an important thing to note, for example due to targets spinning like garuda ex or having to stack on rear for several seconds for titan ex AoEs). I mean, yeah, it is "DPS while moving" in the sense that your Fracture can tick while you're across the platform dodging or breaking gaols, but because of the disconnects resulting in sufficient TP, you can afford to use it. That's what I'm getting at.

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

But I never said that I'd not use it when standing still. . . I mean, yeah, it is "DPS while moving" in the sense that your Fracture can tick while you're across the platform dodging or breaking gaols, but because of the disconnects resulting in sufficient TP, you can afford to use it. That's what I'm getting at.

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Oh, well, then we agree. It was just a phrasing thing, then.

OK i want to know yall honest opinion, can a mnk full VIT stat'd, with a mix of i80 and i90 gear tank Titan in a 3 healer set up? honestly i was in CT last night/ early this morning and a mnk came into the party saying this. thought? also anyone else tank some things just to see how capable mnk is at it? i know in XI mnk could counter tank but thats not an option here, ( i loved doing that) but any thoughts? seems very improbable to me but i may be wrong. as seeing tanks who get better DEF gear and better CD's for tanking still get hurt from regular auto attacks and stomps pretty rough if not geared correctly.

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Originally Posted by Astera_Talon

OK i want to know yall honest opinion, can a mnk full VIT stat'd, with a mix of i80 and i90 gear tank Titan in a 3 healer set up?

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It's at least feasible, but pretty much the entire party would have to cater to it. With 3x heals, surviving shouldn't be too big an issue, but dps will probably have to slow quite a bit to not pull aggro.

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Originally Posted by Astera_Talon

OK i want to know yall honest opinion, can a mnk full VIT stat'd, with a mix of i80 and i90 gear tank Titan in a 3 healer set up? honestly i was in CT last night/ early this morning and a mnk came into the party saying this. thought? also anyone else tank some things just to see how capable mnk is at it? i know in XI mnk could counter tank but thats not an option here, ( i loved doing that) but any thoughts? seems very improbable to me but i may be wrong. as seeing tanks who get better DEF gear and better CD's for tanking still get hurt from regular auto attacks and stomps pretty rough if not geared correctly.

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Nope. Without positionals you can't do enough damage to hold aggro, and even if you could get positionals healers would overtake you with how much they'd have to heal you.

If they WHM's stoneskin spamed I would say yes it could be done. I have seen a full WHM party beat Titan.....

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Originally Posted by YarozeX

If they WHM's stoneskin spamed I would say yes it could be done. I have seen a full WHM party beat Titan.....

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wow really? hmm thats impressive. i thought for sure he was pulling my leg. interesting though, to say the least.

thx for the answers

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Originally Posted by YarozeX

If they WHM's stoneskin spamed I would say yes it could be done. I have seen a full WHM party beat Titan.....

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I would have never stayed awake through the whole fight to see the end of it

In Titan Extreme, I found it hard to keep up with DPS with my monk and was wondering in this fight would dragoons have a higher DPS then monk?

Hey guys I just finished my PLD to ilvl 90 and now will be working on my MNK (only been gearing it for the last 3 weeks). I kind of need some advice on how I should go about spending Tomes and what not.

Current setup. (ilvl 82)
Sphairai (Not Zenith)
Melee Circlet
Fuma Koromo
Darklight Bracers
Darkight Whipping Belt
Fuma Hakama
Fuma Kyahan
Darklight Strike Neck
Allagan Maim Ear
Hero Bracers
Allagan Maim Ring
Vortex Ring of Striking


I am Still working on trying to get the EX primals down to get the Hellish Claws. But I am unsure what my next Tome buy and/or CT drop should be. Any advice? (I will be mostly taking PLD into coil for MNK drops)

Would the Fuma Hands and Myth Choker be my best bet, or Myth Hands and ignore a CT Drop (and pick up the Light armor for my WAR), or someother combo......

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by AegisXI

In Titan Extreme, I found it hard to keep up with DPS with my monk and was wondering in this fight would dragoons have a higher DPS then monk?

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DRG is more forgiving because they do not have to stack/re-stack GLx3, but a properly played MNK should be near the top of the meter on every fight. I recommend playing what you enjoy, and just focusing on clean execution.