Black Mage

All the issues described by the OP still remain. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

But they might have just shifted the meta to triple melee anyway

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Exactly what I was thinking, yesterday a triple melee group set a new OS1 record, meaning MNK is already very close to MCH, and now MCH is being nerfed (why??? what about freaking Ninja SE?) and MNK seems to be getting even more buffs than BLM, unless the potency buff to fire IV is massive we will struggle to even pass SAM damage wise let alone actually beat meta classes...

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

and thank god AetherM and Proc tweaks for slight mobility help, like in prog

glad besides ofc the most important : potency (F4) buff

the 4.2 changes from SE didn't disappoint (unless the next fights contain a lot more rng / heavy movement xD...)

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I have no idea what you are smoking but these changes are absolutely not enough unless the F4 potency buff is completely broken.

TBF Knowing the problems of BLM and how they usually go with changes I was not expecting anything more than what we got, the only real way to get out of this dedlock is either a massive F4 increase or a dps cooldown that also gives raid dps which I find it unlikely to happen during a patch

edit: forgot about the redesign of shake it off which is a precedent, but ye they actually said they were going to redesign the skill and said nothing about us so really was no reason to expect a major overhaul

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

I have no idea what you are smoking but these changes are absolutely not enough unless the F4 potency buff is completely broken.

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we got a flat potency buff on our main dps source + mobility (+ proc 6 sec = mobility & tick more dps as it is, less proc clipping) => potency buff + mobility = not disappointed

sure, being able to stock procs would have been better. and increasing B4 too besides F4 would have nice too., but overall still sounds good

never expected something like Ragging Strikes, even if cant aline with other buffs aswell as other classes...

edit: but do agree, the F4 potency increase has to be more than just a "slight" increase (especially since its the only flat increase)

It really depends on the potency increase to Fire IV. Its just returning it back to 280 then its not enough. I think it needs to be 300 at the minimum really.

I'm expecting nothing else but 280. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

Well could be worse, could be 270

280 should be enough (hopefully).., 300 sounds a bit OP, ..but the more the merrier

It sadly isnt. A potency increase to 300 would roughly be a 8% dps increase overall.

So now that we got the mobility buffs you all called for. Once patch drops and we see F4 potency change might not be enough. Will we finally stop having to talk about the no-problem that was mobility? Thanks.

Thought 10s AM will be funny. The only fight I think this will make a difference is Ultimate anyways.

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

we got a flat potency buff on our main dps source + mobility (+ proc 6 sec = mobility & tick more dps as it is, less proc clipping) => potency buff + mobility = not disappointed

sure, being able to stock procs would have been better. and increasing B4 too besides F4 would have nice too., but overall still sounds good

never expected something like Ragging Strikes, even if cant aline with other buffs aswell as other classes...

edit: but do agree, the F4 potency increase has to be more than just a "slight" increase (especially since its the only flat increase)

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Just wait for it to be a +10 potency increase. They aren't making any changes to SAM, so I can't imagine it will be anything large. We didn't get any significant added mobility compared to what we already had.

@zuzu regarding AM:but will IT be really useful? I remember that when scorch became castable while moving blinking on wow mage was considered a dps loss.

those mobility tweaks really sound like to be enough (unless ofc the next fights have way more heavy/ rng movement-.-'...)

as for the potency buff, would an overall increase of 8% be enough?? (cant do any numbers/ calculating atm)

expected 280, but if 300 is 8% overall

280 potency is a 7,7% damage increase on the spell that is like 50-55% of our total dps (so let's settle for 53%) meaning it'll increase our dps by ~4,1%, let's be generous with the proc timing buff and say our total dps was increased by 5% it puts us on 75th percentile Catastrophe (our best fight due to low movement) at a dps of 4929 still behind SMN who deals 4956 on the same fight and of course it is not taking into account party buffs and I'm hand picking a fight we are actually good at.

I think even 300 is not enough and I'm almost sure we are only getting 280, well at least we will not be the worst job in the game anymore, SAM will take our place while we chill as the second worst class in the game...

But movement was not our main issue.
Blm we must always optimize the situation so we have the least amount of movement during fights.
For the potency increase i want to see how much, 300 would not be enough as smn even with it's "nerf" will still be of higher value

expected 280, but did no math.. and if 300 is still not enough.. maybe the proc increase means less clipping or losing T-procs = a slight increase.. but probably only minor

if the flat increase is not enough, than SE fvcked up

(or B4 got increased too, just not mentioned??.. B4 must have gotten too? even if its only a slight increase.. but with the proc too..)

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Originally Posted by Remedi

@zuzu regarding AM:but will IT be really useful? I remember that when scorch became castable while moving blinking on wow mage was considered a dps loss.

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It's nice on Nael because of its random movements and constant forcing you into moving out and in. But that's about it. Everywhere else its usually meant to just cover distances long enugh to make it better than sprinting to that place or in cases Sprint is down.

Ye but my point was that you might want to just reach a place while using procs/swift/triple hence the comparison to wow, AM kinda feels like the very last resort and nothing more

hows the increase if B4 got buffed too?? a 0.5% increase??

B4 must have gotten buffed too, its the F4 twin..., the B4 buff was probably just not mentioned

B4 going to 280 is like a 0,4% to 0,5% gain.

ah... in that case a potency increase of F4 & B4 of 300 is like the "absolute minimum" or even still not enough(?) .. to merit blm instead of smn (or rdm in prog)

they said "blm is getting buffed" and not "blm is getting a bit buffed" right?

would blm need 310 or 320 buff? (those "sound" insane though..)

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

ah... in that case a potency increase of F4 & B4 of 300 is like the "absolute minimum" or even still not enough(?) .. to merit blm instead of smn (or rdm in prog)

they said "blm is getting buffed" and not "blm is getting a bit buffed" right?

would blm need 310 or 320 buff? (those "sound" insane though..)

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You are thinking about the wrong class here. Its not SMN we are competing with. Its probably either MNK or MCH. SE don't want casters to be strong, that's pretty evident baring a completely unexpected and broken F4 potency increase.

yeah... hate the fact, that there is no caster in the meta (well except maybe rdm in the prog meta .. and maybe smn too.., but sofar hell no blm in either prog or speedkill meta).. and there is no "3 caster meta" parallel to the known "physical speedkill meta"

but with the known high smn numbers and blm 4.2 buff.. fingers crossed for a some kind of 2-3 caster parallel meta.. even if its still unlikley

but after 4.2, really hope blm can get into all PFs better

blm should be compting with sam, smn and mnk... and mch for the meta spot (and rdm in general as a caster).. or actually with only sam, but the balance and meta are broken

just happy if blm are not so excluded anymore from most PFs.. but trying to break the meta was expecting too much probably

Basically depending on the potency gain we would get those scenarios (considering both B4 and F4 getting the same buff):
280 (~4,5% more DPS) - We would be in the discussion of the biggest personal damage class, but without any raid buffs we would still suck hard.
300 (~9% more DPS)- Probably the biggest personal DPS on the game, but still not nearly enough to compete with the OP buff stacking meta.
320 (~13% more DPS)- Not going to happen, but it would maybe be enough to make us a meta option

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

yeah... hate the fact, that there is no caster in the meta (well except maybe rdm in the prog meta .. and maybe smn too.., but sofar hell no blm in either prog or speedkill meta).. and there is no "3 caster meta" parallel to the known "physical speedkill meta"

but with the known high smn numbers and blm 4.2 buff.. fingers crossed for a some kind of 2-3 caster parallel meta.. even if its still unlikley

but after 4.2, really hope blm can get into all PFs better

blm should be compting with sam, smn and mnk... and mch for the meta spot (and rdm in general as a caster).. or actually with only sam, but the balance and meta are broken

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Its absolutely hilarious that 3 melee's + 1 ranged is closer to being meta than one caster + 2 Melee + 1 ranged - let alone 2 caster, 1 Melee 1 Ranged.

I hope BLM can get into PF's better but I can't see that happening. SMN MNK and MCH will likely be superior.

odd they buffed smn (single) and mnk in general... they seemed fine.. (well mnk did need a slight increase to nin.. or nin needed a nerf)

in that case B4/F4 need a sustainable increase like 320 afterall..., especially since Smn and mkn are going up too

(but see 280 max 300 as what we're going to get -.-'.., and that not being enough by far after all.. meaning the devs just wasted an opportunity... damn.. now we have to rage the next months again till its fixed... and im stuck on smn..)

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

odd they buffed smn (single)

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Where did you read they buffed summoner? I can only see nerf here?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Update-Thread

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Where did you read they buffed summoner? I can only see nerf here?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Update-Thread

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read smn aoe is getting a nerf and as compensation single target a "slight" buff

got it from the reddit

I gotta admit, I'm pretty disappointed by hearing about these tiny changes.
AM and transpose lowered CD, longer proc duration is ok, but not what I hoped for, would rather take a Manaward BUFF than AM/Transpose changes.
Will give patch 4.2 2 weeks, and if I still feel the frustrations I feel atm, I am hanging up my rods for good or until further changes happen, and will take a hiatus from XIV as a small boycott

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

read smn aoe is getting a nerf and as compensation single target a "slight" buff

got it from the reddit

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If that be the case that is bs, smn already have higher ST damage then blm atm

The buff on ST is not confirmed, which probably means a nerf on akh morn/deathflare if they want consider buffing ST dmg to compensate

edit: We should not excludea 80 potency buff to F4, it's something they haven't done often but they did buff R3 from 120 to 200 with 3.2 so it's not something to exclude (albeit I'm not counting on it)

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Originally Posted by Remedi

The buff on ST is not confirmed, which probably means a nerf on akh morn/deathflare if they want consider buffing ST dmg to compensate

edit: We should not excludea 80 potency buff to F4, it's something they haven't done often but they did buff R3 from 120 to 200 with 3.2 so it's not something to exclude (albeit I'm not counting on it)

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Whatever you are drinking to make you think they will buff F4 by 80 raw potency (before AF+Enochian buffs), I want some.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

The buff on ST is not confirmed, which probably means a nerf on akh morn/deathflare if they want consider buffing ST dmg to compensate

edit: We should not excludea 80 potency buff to F4, it's something they haven't done often but they did buff R3 from 120 to 200 with 3.2 so it's not something to exclude (albeit I'm not counting on it)

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The problem is that all their actions and statements till now points to they viewing the class as having a mobility problem and just a small dps problem (which we know is bull), so it really feels much more likely that they will give a small potency increase to F4.

@Harold: just a precedent nothing more I too think it's very unlikely but they did once so why not? And since they don't want to give BLM raid buffs then why not going for broken dmg?

@Lina: I'd say that a part of the community is more at fault of this since there have been many ppl claiming that what's really getting BLM out of raids is their mobility, I mean I was starting to feel that it was just my imagination that you could actually work with the tools you have to offset much of the mobility in the game considering how ppl kept saying it was the other way around

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Originally Posted by Maero

If that be the case that is bs, smn already have higher ST damage then blm atm

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smn out doing blm is due to aoe possibilities in the fight or heavy movement (which indicates blm can use a tick more mobility in heavy fights, even when the fight is learned)

but on a dummy and on low / easy movemet fights, smn will not out dps a blm (unless you count in the aetherpac 2% buff on the group), ..but smn does a lot / too much for an utility dps compared to blm as raw dps

eitherway think SE sees it like this:

the classes with the lowest own dps should br meta (to be on speeskill rankings).. while the classes with the personal highest dps should (highest fflogs damage rankings) should not also be in the speedkill rankings..., that way sam, blm, smn, mnk should be in the one ranking (damage)... drg, nin, brd, mch in the other ranking (speedkill)..., rdm is a joker and prog godsend

... just hope the "non" speedkill meta classes will stay valid in pfs (maybe parallel meta: mnk, sam, blm & smn??? in 4.2)

just SE has to "balance" in a way, that the "raw dps" classes (with their overall dps) can compete with "drg + 2 ranged" (comp with all their buffs).., same with mnk & smn with their buffs ... if possible

Has all BLMs pretty much given up like myself since this thread used to be the most active, now it has become pretty dead.

I am just curious now with only Fire4 getting a potency buff. Is it now worth using BLizzard4 just to get the Umbral Hearts at all or just go: B3 - T3 - Foul - F3, leaving out the time to cast B4 for more Astral Fire uptime etc.
Or does the Umbral Hearts' lower MP on first 3 F4 allow more Astral uptime?

I am pretty disappointed with BLM changes as mobility issues is not something I was struggling with as careful planning on saving proc and clever use of leylines Betweenthelines and AM was already good, and ofc triplecast.

I'm curious to see how much the reduced Transpose cooldown will do for the AoE rotation, now that we can spam Flares a bit quicker.

As for the Fire4 buff, I think accounting for Astral Fire 3 the effective buff is about +34? Not sure on the exact number. I'm not going to dismiss BLM out of meta raiding just yet until we see what people can do with it. We also need to see how much AoE there is in the new raids.

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Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

I'm not going to dismiss BLM out of meta raiding just yet until we see what people can do with it.

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Don't waste your time. It won't be meta.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Don't waste your time. It won't be meta.

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I really don't think people understand that we already did the calculations to know that nothing short of 300-320 would put BLM in meta.

But, 280? That's just undoing the nerf. It's not even a buff.

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Originally Posted by Elix_Moarbase

I really don't think people understand that we already did the calculations to know that nothing short of 300-320 would put BLM in meta.

But, 280? That's just undoing the nerf. It's not even a buff.

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However we still don't know how the new raids are designed yet. For all we know, we could be getting all sorts of forced mechanics insisting on magic or AoE damage.