Market Boards need to work like FFXI AH

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Originally Posted by MentalPoison

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Originally Posted by Bizzybeast

Trololololo Trololololo

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We get it, you disagree, move on.

Hi,

Now that we are hopefully done with trolling and counter-trolling, I wanted to weigh in my 2 gil on the original post:

If I might poke a hole or 2 into your concept.

1) The problem with the blind ah is that it is too easy to do "price-fixing." By that I mean the following (I have seen this done in FFXI) 2 to 4 people start selling say DarkSteel Ore (Sorry all my post examples will use DarkSteel as an example) at about 1 gil. We get some "fake-buyers" to buy them for the at the 1-10 gil. You wanted 10-20 sales in the history, so lets say our little group makes the amount of the history +5 for sake of argument. No one is really stopping people from making sure that the when they hit the history button all they will see is 1-10 gil per DarkSteel Ore (when the price pre-fixing was like 1k). So now you have basically artificially deflated the "value" of DarkSteel Ore. These "price-fixers" would just benefit on a market exploitation (buying everything possible for 1-50 gil and reselling at 1k. Yes, this is an absurdly exaggerated example but concept still holds.

2) Now that you can stack to 99, how do you propose the sale mechanism is for people wanting to buy 50 or 25 or 10?


Thoughts/Comments?

Youre wasting your time Wulfies, logically breaking down why the very old and tired system wont work, wont work.

They push passed it and talk about how bic coins were popular in the Vietnam era, making absolutely no sense and effectively deflecting the arguments. Then just clam up and scream TROLL, TROLL, when you grow tired of explaining it to them.

Take comfort in knowing this will never move passed a thread and save your energy for pushing other ideas elsewhere.

I like undercutting and I do it all the time. I spent time leveling up a couple crafting classes and got the best gear possible for those classes. I farm items, then I make HQ items that sell for decent amounts. I also trade with free company teammates... items for crystals.

At the end, I make lots of great equipment and items at no gil cost. And if I see a couple HQ items up, for say, 40k, I'm going to sell at 25k. And if a couple items I have used to gil acquisition are being challenged by another player undercutting me still, I spend an hour flooding the market at ridiculously low prices and spread it around my retainers to look like it's multiple people selling in hopes of scaring them off from making a profit on what I consider my market.

I spend more time crafting than battling. It's what I find fun. It's not like I sell every expensive item out there. But I do have a few I would say I "specialize" in. There's nothing stopping anyone from doing the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Wulfies

2) Now that you can stack to 99, how do you propose the sale mechanism is for people wanting to buy 50 or 25 or 10?


Thoughts/Comments?

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I love/hate it. Usually I farm everything I need, but for those times you end up 1 or 2 items short, it can be easier to just buy it quickly if it's cheap. I like it for bulk purchases, but I find it frustrating when I only want 1 or 2 items and I can only buy like... 70... or 99. lol I just choose not to and move on. (Or buy all and resell what I don't use. But I hate temporary losses)

But I have noticed... if 99 are being sold at a cost of 100gil each... If I only need a couple, I would rather buy from the guy selling 5 at a cost of 500gil each. You know? So I figure, there must be others out there like me too. So sometimes, if the item is easy to obtain, I'll go farm 20 or so, then sell them in groups of 5 at a higher markup. Typically... the smaller the amount I'm selling, the higher I'll charge.

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Originally Posted by MentalPoison

TROLL, TROLL

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Then, explain why, when we called you out for being what you are, you started using another character to reply.

AND even referred to yourself in the 3rd person, in an effort to have anyone agree with you?

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Originally Posted by MentalPoison

Some of you need to realize Bizzy is positively more entertaining then you. Deal with that fact. He is the only person in this whole thread that made me even remotely laugh.

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To Wulfies, you have a valid point about people who don't need 99 of an Item, and I myself have been stuck buying way more than I needed of something.

But then I usually relist what I had, for slightly more, in smaller denominations.

Widget 10g X99
Widget 12g x20

It seems to work ok, but it does eat a lot of retainer slots.

And Fetch, undercutting a 40k item at 25k.. is just... whyyyyyyyyyyy
You want to cut to 35-38K? I get it, but why tank the price of something like that?

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Originally Posted by EvanderStoneguard

QFT

I for one agree with Bizzybeast with the logic behind this thread.

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Damn that wasnt hard at all to find.. I guess he has a lot of socks and puppets.

I acknowledge there are those that agree with you, but the point remains, you referred to yourself in the third person, to support your cause. And this is not the first thread you have done so in.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

I acknowledge there are those that agree with you, but the point remains, you referred to yourself in the third person, to support your cause. And this is not the first thread you have done so in.

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He doesnt have a cause, he just has common sense. Funny how you now stand there whining that his logical points are so good they are unfair.

Hey I just read up about the next patch, nothing to do with FF11's old stagnant poop system coming in! Thats gotta suck.

Also since you feel cool about it, eventhough I already said im his RL friend.. I even play from his house every so often. Please keep delaying your terrible points about how War World 2 memorabilia being auctioned off in Norway, somehow means that Raptor Hides are selling too low on this video game.

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Originally Posted by MistressAthena

Your not that special, nor are you that smart

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Just so you understand why im laughing so hard at the try hards. This was one of this guy's first replies to Bizzy.. Please notice the 'Your not that special/smart', rofl. Now try to understand why people who are against this thread's bad concept, are losing their patience when dealing with people who have trouble mustering intelligent thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Wulfies

Hi,

Now that we are hopefully done with trolling and counter-trolling, I wanted to weigh in my 2 gil on the original post:

If I might poke a hole or 2 into your concept.

1) The problem with the blind ah is that it is too easy to do "price-fixing." By that I mean the following (I have seen this done in FFXI) 2 to 4 people start selling say DarkSteel Ore (Sorry all my post examples will use DarkSteel as an example) at about 1 gil. We get some "fake-buyers" to buy them for the at the 1-10 gil. You wanted 10-20 sales in the history, so lets say our little group makes the amount of the history +5 for sake of argument. No one is really stopping people from making sure that the when they hit the history button all they will see is 1-10 gil per DarkSteel Ore (when the price pre-fixing was like 1k). So now you have basically artificially deflated the "value" of DarkSteel Ore. These "price-fixers" would just benefit on a market exploitation (buying everything possible for 1-50 gil and reselling at 1k. Yes, this is an absurdly exaggerated example but concept still holds.

2) Now that you can stack to 99, how do you propose the sale mechanism is for people wanting to buy 50 or 25 or 10?


Thoughts/Comments?

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I understand this happened in FFXI, never said it didn't have its flaws, and while yes this can happen how is it any different than whats happening on a massive scale?

Basically your saying they have to try alot harder to undercut and drop prices. Which is A-OK with me if its harder, but it can and will happen on some items.

That is better than every single item dropping massively and with no effort like it is now.

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Originally Posted by MentalPoison

He doesnt have a cause, he just has common sense. Funny how you now stand there whining that his logical points are so good they are unfair.

Hey I just read up about the next patch, nothing to do with FF11's old stagnant poop system coming in! Thats gotta suck.

Also since you feel cool about it, eventhough I already said im his RL friend.. I even play from his house every so often. Please keep delaying your terrible points about how War World 2 memorabilia being auctioned off in Norway, somehow means that Raptor Hides are selling too low on this video game.



Just so you understand why im laughing so hard at the try hards. This was one of this guy's first replies to Bizzy.. Please notice the 'Your not that special/smart', rofl. Now try to understand why people who are against this thread's bad concept, are losing their patience when dealing with people who have trouble mustering intelligent thoughts.

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yes I typed Your instead of you're. I knew that already. Whether your his friend or not, the fact you feel the need to come in derail the subject, troll, and defend him on a point you think is useless, just shows you have some serious mental issues in a few categories.

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Originally Posted by MentalPoison

Damn that wasnt hard at all to find.. I guess he has a lot of socks and puppets.

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Wow someone else with no experience of the endgame economy agrees with you, you must feel so validated right now.

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Originally Posted by MentalPoison

Just so you understand why im laughing so hard at the try hards. This was one of this guy's first replies to Bizzy.. Please notice the 'Your not that special/smart', rofl. Now try to understand why people who are against this thread's bad concept, are losing their patience when dealing with people who have trouble mustering intelligent thoughts.

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I feel kind of dirty lowering myself to your level but that's funny coming from someone who doesn't understand how apostrophes, ellipses, quote marks, or capitalization work. Even funnier that Bizzybeast seems to have had the same difficulties, and that you're still referring to him in the third person. :rolleyes: If you're going to laugh at poor writing style, perhaps try starting with your own?

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Originally Posted by Sinbios

Wow someone else with no experience of the endgame economy agrees with you, you must feel so validated right now.


I feel kind of dirty lowering myself to your level but that's funny coming from someone who doesn't understand how apostrophes, ellipses, quote marks, or capitalization work. Even funnier that Bizzybeast seems to have had the same difficulties, and that you're still referring to him in the third person. :rolleyes: If you're going to laugh at poor writing style, perhaps try starting with your own?

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by MistressAthena

yes I typed Your instead of you're. I knew that already. Whether your his friend or not, the fact you feel the need to come in derail the subject, troll, and defend him on a point you think is useless, just shows you have some serious mental issues in a few categories.

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Once is an accident, every single time is ignorance. You should already know which category you fall under.

You do not like people's opinions who differ from yours, especially when they use sources, facts, or logic. This entire thread you've mis-represented the current system, due to your lack of understanding of it and you continue to promote that FF11's blind auction is a "Far Superior System". Regardless of how many argue, rationally, against that bold statement. People have cited multiple problems and flaws, to which you brush aside and say "It has flaws, but its a vastly superior system!", like a politician stuck on stupid.

This system is heavily flawed, especially considering during FF11 simple keyboard macros could cycle through bids until you find the lowest. The whole reason you want this system is because pretending to be a girl isnt getting you loads of free stuff, the current market takes effort for it to pay off. You cannot cut it in this system because youre bad at it and seek to throw in an old system, with many flaws you even admit to, that needs an overhaul to even be remotely functional. Aint nobody got time for that.

Mental issues? "Mistress may refer to: Mistress (lover), a woman, other than the spouse, with whom a married individual has a continuing sexual relationship", and you cannot properly use You're and Your. So I would be more careful about throwing around labels bro.

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Originally Posted by Sinbios

I don't think blind auction is the way to fix it.

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Damn that sucks, yet another person who wouldnt be considered a valid end game opinion, agrees with my side. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by MentalPoison

Once is an accident, every single time is ignorance. You should already know which category you fall under.

You do not like people's opinions who differ from yours, especially when they use sources, facts, or logic. This entire thread you've mis-represented the current system, due to your lack of understanding of it and you continue to promote that FF11's blind auction is a "Far Superior System". Regardless of how many argue, rationally, against that bold statement. People have cited multiple problems and flaws, to which you brush aside and say "It has flaws, but its a vastly superior system!", like a politician stuck on stupid.

This system is heavily flawed, especially considering during FF11 simple keyboard macros could cycle through bids until you find the lowest. The whole reason you want this system is because pretending to be a girl isnt getting you loads of free stuff, the current market takes effort for it to pay off. You cannot cut it in this system because youre bad at it and seek to throw in an old system, with many flaws you even admit to, that needs an overhaul to even be remotely functional. Aint nobody got time for that.

Mental issues? "Mistress may refer to: Mistress (lover), a woman, other than the spouse, with whom a married individual has a continuing sexual relationship", and you cannot properly use You're and Your. So I would be more careful about throwing around labels bro.



Damn that sucks, yet another person who wouldnt be considered a valid end game opinion, agrees with my side. Oh well.

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Actually it's intentional. It's "Internet short hand" and simply me typing fast to get the point across. This isn't an exam, nor a paper for a sophisticated journal, nor a book, or anything on that level. I'm sorry you have nothing to argue with, and resort to pointing out my style of writing online. Words of wisdom, read and think about whats typed, not how its typed, as even wise or intelligent thoughts can come in the form of quick and sloppy responses.

If you refer to several pages before, I point out several times that disagreeing with me is more than ok, and it still is. Antagonizing me, flaming me, trolling me, and resorting to personal attacks is not ok with me. Do you understand the difference? I really don't think you do, as you disagree with me, then turn around and insult me, then claim I'm upset because your disagreeing with me. It's a troll mentality, and is honestly extremely childish. I'm sorry to say.

Yet again, you claim the system is heavily then use an example which weighs almost nothing in the argument. The keyboard macro command for that doesn't matter, as it doesn't effect the over all way the FF11 AH worked in any way. Yes I agree the FFXI AH system had a very few flaws, but its still loads better than the current system which has blatantly more flaws and problems.

Some people just don't like the FFXI AH, that's fine, perfectly. I like it. Some like Cheese, others don't. I'm fine, my reasons for liking it are not everyone's. Do you understand this concept as well? I don't think you really do on that point either based by the way your trying to argue.

As for the Mistress. Mistress in the English language has many forms, and meanings. Such As:

1) A woman in a position of authority, control, or ownership, as the head of a household:
2) A woman who owns or keeps an animal
3) A woman who owns a slave.
4) A woman with ultimate control over something
5) A woman who has mastered a skill or branch of learning
6) Mistress Used formerly as a courtesy title when speaking to or of a woman.
7) -Chiefly British- A woman schoolteacher

Sorry to break it to you, but your version of what "Mistress" stands for is the perverted version, and there are many many more meanings which are not.

But should we really go over names, when yours is "Mental Poison". Sounds like a troll name to me.

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Originally Posted by MistressAthena

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Don't bother feeding the troll.

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Originally Posted by Sinbios

Don't bother feeding the troll.

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your right, my apologies.

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Originally Posted by MistressAthena

quick and sloppy responses.

Yes I agree the FFXI AH system had a very few flaws, but its still loads better than the current system which has blatantly more flaws and problems.

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I refuse to keep playing into the drama queen trap, so ill deflect the rest of this mess of a post and simply ask WHY? You get explanations only to never mind them without a second thought.


Your idea to bring FF11s blind auction system into FF14, is under fire by your peers. The burden of proof is left to you and plenty of people have offered MANY of those "few flaws", which you just shrug off.

They are huge glaring issues with your idea, stand your ground and defend your point. Or yield your petition to implement a very flawed system that YOU claim is better then the current.

Your original examples stipulate the "chance" of getting a higher profit on your items, through a blind auction. You do not mention how this could just as easily work against someone, with the PROVEN volume of players playing the market.

You've failed to appropriately explain why your idea is a better one over the current, without resistance, of which you have just flamed in the absence of a sound argument. If you look through the thread it is nothing but you and some others yelling, insulting, and then saying "You dont understand!". Of course I would take on the When In Rome attitude when dabbling in this debauchery.

If you took a more conversational approach to this "debate", you would have seen a more willing discussion regarding the pros and cons of both your old system, rehashed I assume, and ways to realistically meld it with the current one.

Undercutting is voluntary. The visibility provides for the necessary supply and demand of a functioning economy. No change needed imo.

I think all items should have a minimum price that can't be adjusted. In that way crafters would at least have a chance to make back the money that was spent on the ingredients used to create the item. A system like this would help to stop undercutting because I don't think most people would sell items for the exact amount that they paid for their ingredients and this would also stop crafters from selling overpriced items.

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Originally Posted by ThinkPInk

I think all items should have a minimum price that can't be adjusted. In that way crafters would at least have a chance to make back the money that was spent on the ingredients used to create the item. A system like this would help to stop undercutting because I don't think most people would sell items for the exact amount that they paid for their ingredients and this would also stop crafters from selling overpriced items.

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I dont see how this could work. What would make your item sell before mine or vice versa? Would it be a queue, first one listed is first to sell?

Personally I think this would take a lot away from the entertainment of haggling for cheap materials and playing the market to profit.

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For instance lets say Iron Sword costs 2,000 gil from the vendor. You, somehow, buy the mats and make it for a cost of 2,200. Then, of course, list it at 3,000. Anyone who knows it has a vendor version will not buy your over-priced version. You messed up and put too high of a worth on the materials.

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And this is the very reason as to why my gear has come from vendors/quest rewards and not from crafters.

wait till housing comes, all of this crap will end at that point as those house prices will be ridiculous, it'll give crafters something to work towards as well and i think no one will mind a little undercutting(there will always be idiots of course but even then...)when every furnishing you put up will be bought regardless of price(well almost).

i don't think it'll solve all the problems with the market but i do think people will slowly begin to understand that the chump change they make driving the markets down won't help them in the end.

I like your suggestion OP; however I would like to also tac on a suggestion that a percentage range be considered, so you can only sell +/- 10-20% on the average weekly sale price.

just wanted to chime in. i do not like the proposal by OP. i'm a crafter and have no problem with efficient markets. let supply and demand determine price. imo, crafters or anyone else isn't entitled to anything. if you choose to produce items which are over supplied, you should have to deal with the market consequences. if you're able to see an opportunity on the horizon and move quickly to capitalize, you should be rewarded for your efforts. if you want to spend hours modifying market orders to remain competitive, so be it. don't really see a problem as is.

Wait.. What did I just read?

There is no problem except the OP's flawed premise:

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People who like to craft, and spend their time gathering and crafting deserve a system which doesn't punish them. They deserve to be able to sell their goods at a fair price, without having to be worried about getting undercut by 60% and or selling at extremely low and ridiculous prices.

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The OP deserves nothing but what the market will bear.

The solution? The OP wants to create market inefficiencies by reducing market transparency. By reducing the amount of information consumers have, he/she hopes to reduce their ability to make savvy buying decisions.

In other words, he/she wants to engage in predatory selling practices to capture more profit by hiding supply/demand info to artificially inflate prices. You, OP are the reason market regulation exists in the real world. You are also trying to break a functioning free market because of your greed. Do I blame you? Not necessarily, I mean it is natural to want to profit. But you would make the entire system less efficient and less transparent to do so- and since I am both a buyer AND a seller- I say NO THANKS.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

There is no problem except the OP's flawed premise:
The solution? The OP wants to create market inefficiencies by reducing market transparency. By reducing the amount of information consumers have, he/she hopes to reduce their ability to make savvy buying decisions.

In other words, he/she wants to engage in predatory selling practices to capture more profit by hiding supply/demand info to artificially inflate prices. You, OP are the reason market regulation exists in the real world. You are also trying to break a functioning free market because of your greed. Do I blame you? Not necessarily, I mean it is natural to want to profit. But you would make the entire system less efficient and less transparent to do so- and since I am both a buyer AND a seller- I say NO THANKS.

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Oh my god, another person that speaks my language!!!

From what I can see, most of the proposed changes in this forum will only result in a less efficient market. The only good proposal I've seen so far was a buy option.

In my opinion, the decision to defend such changes stems from a few factors:
1) lacks an understanding on how economy works
2) refuse to accept that he/she don't know how to trade
3) selfishness

Factor 1) seems to be the more prominant case as they can't seems to understand the overall economic impact or what economic efficiency means. It's not their fault as most view economics as a dry subject. 2) & 3) is what I can't stand.

@Wazabi

I agree with you that a buyer will always want to buy for the lowest price possible. This is working as intended.

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In EvE I did a huge amount of margin trading on newb level ores. A, because I could refine them to increase my profits, and B, with a buy order system, I just put up huge buy orders for 1 isk(Inter-Steller Kredit) where the typical sales price and market average was 5-8 isk. (I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of units, millions of M^3 of materials.) And the market place 'default' price was the highest paying buy order. Often, I had the only buy orders up in the stations i traded (near mining hubs). So yes, I took full advantage of newbs in EvE and made millions upon billions of Isk. EvE is a cutthroat game, and particularly enjoyable when feeling evil.

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Playing the markets is all well and good. But currently, the only logic sellers use when putting items on the market is: See current price of items for sale, undercut by 1-10,000g. Is this working as intended?

A lot of people are saying how a blind bid gives sellers the advantage. But if a seller does not know if he is undercutting the competition or not, he is forced to either match current pricing conventions +/- or undercut sharply to ensure the first sale, thus lowering costs for buyers.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Playing the markets is all well and good. But currently, the only logic sellers use when putting items on the market is: See current price of items for sale, undercut by 1-10,000g. Is this working as intended?

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Yes, it is. Sellers know how much they paid for materials, etc. They can either price to sell quickly, or price above the current selling price, if they want to hold out for some additional profit. Just because people are being lazy about pricing or pricing for quick sales is not a signal that anything is wrong.

You have heard of Wal-Mart, right? Volume selling is a market tactic.

It seems to me that the biggest gripe is that the market is a competitive market. That's not a problem that needs to be fixed. That is how efficient markets work. Sorry, you have to compete for market share, wallet share, and sales- Welcome to the real world.

Just thinking logically- You have a commodity-like market with a set number of homogenized products, you have little barrier to entry, and limitless production resources in most cases.

In this market, you should expect to make very little profit on any sale. If you do, it is likely because supply hasn't ramped up yet (newer server).. or because of some inefficiency. (Or a combination of the two).

The quoted section above was my personal experience in EvE, but was an anecdote to the current situation rather than directly on point. I understand market competition well. I also cornered many a goldsmithing item in FFXI.

My question, which you answered with a rephrasing was: "Currently, the only logic sellers use when putting items on the market is: See current price of items for sale, undercut by 1-10,000g. Is this working as intended?


You answered yes, working as intended because "They can either price to sell quickly, or price above the current selling price."
Yes, they can do those things. But they don't.

Just because people can, and should do things, does not mean they will. That's where market controls have to step in.

Your friendly neighborhood Walmart could pay their employees a living wage. They should pay a living wage. But they don't.
Instead, they pay the bare minimum that market controls (minimum wage laws) allow.

Thank god I don't work in retail.

Sure they do... I know that when I sell potash I sell it at the same amount each time, even though some people might be selling it lower... it sells in time.

I don't think we are capable of saying the "only" reason anyone does anything - because we lack the scope and insight to make such a statement with confidence.

In the spirit of comrodary, I will agree with your second statement.

Currently, the only logic sellers use when putting items on the market is: See current price of items for sale, undercut by 1-10,000g. Except for the statistically insignificant amount of times someone actually pays attention to what market is doing.

Better?

(>^.^)> <(^.^<) (v~.~v)

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

In the spirit of comrodary, I will agree with your second statement.

Currently, the only logic sellers use when putting items on the market is: See current price of items for sale, undercut by 1-10,000g. Except for the statistically insignificant amount of times someone actually pays attention to what market is doing.

Better?
(>^.^)> <(^.^<) (v~.~v)

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Well.. I was pointing out how in some cases... a per unit difference is large enough to warrant consideration of waiting. In other cases, where volume will make up the profit, there's no reason not to undercut to move inventory.

biggest problem i see is with the exception of 2 crafts everything crafted can be bought from vendors (have not seen higher lvl food or potions for sale anywhere yet(course i have yet to see any point were potions are of any use)). materials only lower lvl are vendor sold. solution make vendor sold items inferior to crafted items ( non sellable non convertiable or just lower stats). perhaps raising vendor sell price to 25-50% like most games instead of this .25-1% they are at now(% rate is just a rough guess though i dont think it is to far from right)

No, actually I think of that as something to avoid! FFXI AH was ridiculous, anything you had to sell was not going to bring in money while what you needed cost a lot of money and caused a lot of people to buy gil. Also you think botting is bad in this game, it was on steroids in comparison in FFXI with people of a high level botting the things that sold for a lot while people without levels trying to level up had almost no money. Quite literally FFXI AH is what caused a lot of people to buy gil with it's failed system of not letting new people in and only rewarding the well established.

So if you had an item up for sale for 5k, and there was 4 others up for 4.5k, and lets say there are 4 buyers. Your item isn't going to sell, is this terrible and an outrage? Same example but lets say they are selling theirs for 1k a piece instead of 4.5k, whats changed? They made a smaller profit and that's all! Did they mysteriously make the item worth 1k now instead of 5k? No not at all, they won't be back selling those items for that price again(if it indeed is at a major loss) and the market will be yours again. Now lets assume they do come back and sell more for 1k, totally at a loss! I'd suggest moving to a different item for the time being, they'll be out of gil soon most likely.

I don't know what else to say on this topic, if someone is willing to take a loss for an item, so be it. There are usually enough buyers out there that the price will come back within a few days or just hours depending on the demand of the item.

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Originally Posted by NefGP

I just about cried earlier when I saw HQ lanolin dropped from 8k to 1000...

-_-' damn undercutters.

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...except come on, it was never worth 8K per HQ Lanolin in the first place....

Undercutting, usually means people force prices to be below the items actual value.

This is a simple item to craft, and very easy to HQ. On my server you can get K. Skins for cheap...so the only cost are the shards, which are also easy to get. Furthermore, this isn't a super-high demand crafting supply as it is only currently used for 3 different synths.

So your prices weren't 'undercut'. 1000K is in all honestly, the actual value of a HQ Lanolin, considering the raw mat costs+time/effort/skill involved. 1K still = over 3x the mats cost to make said item on my server last I checked...and most people in your FC will hand you the skins if you ask (they were farming the K. SHeep for fleece not skins)


ON TOPIC:

The markets are fine as is: If people want to undercut items, to the point they are worth less than the mats used to make them, that is their own stupidity. Be smarter than them.

If an item is selling at a loss:
1. You could buy it at a loss, and gamble that it'll increase in price, sell it when it's 'worth more' (play the markets)
2. You could sell the mats that are worth more collectively than the crafted item
3. You could craft something else...don't be the 20th idiot to list rosewood lumber for 19gil a piece (seriously people, one shard is worth about 19 gil...)
4. When YOU sell/craft you could limit how many of the same item/stacks of items you personally place up at one time. SO even if you grind out 10 stacks of ingots, do you really need to sell them all at the same time? Sell 1-3 stacks, and keep replacing them as they sell. This might not help you make money fast, but the reason prices are plummetting is that the supply outweighs the demand....so don't over-supply. You can't control what other people do, but you can keep from adding to the problem.

More crying because people are trying to overcharge for easy to make items, so people make their own and sell them at lower prices.

Not sure why people don't understand that people see sellers ripping people off and decide to make their own and undercut them, because they are tired of getting ripped off and can produce their own goods and sell them cheaper- making money and undercutting the gougers.

It's not a market problem... it's the market not tolerating rip offs.

This stems from ppl who claims/thinks they understand the market but in reality has no bearing on how the market, or even a business works, and wants to change the mechanics to a way that they think they understand, and then think they will be able to make a profit from it.

The markets should stay like they are now. They work perfectly fine is something that happens is all the economy so is fine that the people that will sell in the markets deal with this.
Also most of the times that one item is undercuted is because the price was inflated and there the only person receiving a huge profit is the seller.