Combat still too slow. We need a shorter Global Cooldown!

I enjoy the timing and feel of combat with the current gcd. I hope it stays the same.

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Originally Posted by aristo_cbr

Everyone has a different opinion and preferences. But this is Final Fantasy and it's not an action MMORPG, I would say the pace of the combat is just fine.

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Think about what you just said. You are saying its ok for Final Fantasy to be bad, cause its final Fantasy. How did that work for you with FFXIV v1.0? Also, its definitly an action MMORPG. Theres no turns here, its all real time action.

I'm also disappointed at most people who replyed to this thread without even reading my first post. I adressed all the angles this would affect in the game. You think all these players are gonna stick around for long with this combat system beeing so slow? We dont need 2.5 seconds to make a decision. Cmon... i swear you want this game to fail when you say that. Heck i would be happy with 0.5 seconds shaven off the GCD. Yes it would require rebalancing for those that even bother reading.

I played WoW for many years and I actually really like the combat in this game. The early levels of the game were kind of dull from a combat perspective because you have so few abilities to manage, but once you start getting past 30 and into the 40's the game really picks up (in all phases, for that matter). It might not be for everyone, IDK I can only speak for myself but in no way is the combat too slow for me to enjoy.

I plan to start leveling my pugilist/monk pretty soon and that seems to have a lot of things to keep up with from a dps perspective since I am a white mage right now. I have plenty of things to be doing in dungeons at my level, and I have to make the right decisions with what spells to cast and when or people die. It is different for a dps class or tank but it appears that many of the classes/jobs have to think about how and when they use their spells to the maximum effectiveness.

Thought I should also add that I have zero interest in PvP in this game (as is the case with every MMO I play) so I could see it being slow for PvP maybe but really that is no concern to me. I play MMORPG's for the PvE.

Play on a gamepad rather than your all buttons under the palm master race keyboard. Then you'll realize (and possibly hate even more) why the GCD is pretty slow.

keep the GCD, that i dont care about, but can we get animation times fixed? a spell that is instant isnt instant and i cant use my stun which is off the GCD because of the 1+ second animation times, this really gets in the way of interrupting boss fights like ifrit and its why you see the off tanks sitting there doing nothing at all but auto attacking.

I think if anything the GCD could do with being a little slower, I like the strategic elements present when you actually have to think about every move. Also I think animation lock should be kept, letting people use multiple skills or cast multiple spells simultaneously is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by homunyan

I think if anything the GCD could do with being a little slower, I like the strategic elements present when you actually have to think about every move. Also I think animation lock should be kept, letting people use multiple skills or cast multiple spells simultaneously is just stupid.

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Really? You need to think about your decision after you have done your rotation hundreads of times? Do you dislike learning that much?
I swear... the lack of vision is astouding. This game is not turn based. That is not an ATB bar. An ATB bar depends on your stats and works in a design where you have 3 or 4 characters so you can focus on different strategies on each one, not when you only have one character. This is why the Final Fantasy brand is in the state it is... because some people just eat anything up.

Theres other MMO's in the market. We are not in a little FF bubble here. The game will never get competitive with this kind of feedback.

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Originally Posted by homunyan

I think if anything the GCD could do with being a little slower, I like the strategic elements present when you actually have to think about every move. Also I think animation lock should be kept, letting people use multiple skills or cast multiple spells simultaneously is just stupid.

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Many of the fights and soloing situations I find myself in wouldn't be manageable with animation lock. The adjudicator alone would be far more difficult, and primals would require a crystal ball for mages. Do a healer limit break during these fights and you can see where it can go wrong.

These fight mechanics simply do not allow for many animation locks.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Think about what you just said.

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So a number of people disagree with you, that they prefer this style of gameplay to more action orientated ones... and your answer is that they're wrong and should agree with you?

Different style of gameplay appeal to different people. It's how the gameplay is implemented that counts, not how fast it is.
I agree with aristo, the combat pace is just fine for the style of game that FFXIV is.

WoW Devs are coming to the conclusion that lots of things to do and mash quickly does not equal skill or fun. Why would this game go into a design that has proven to be a problem even in a game like WoW. It is a bad idea to do this, WoW's Lead designer is actively trying to put an end to this very same issue. This game adds strategy to the GCD system, since you can time CDs properly to get better bang for the buck. The combat is not an issue, please don't make the Devs waste time on it.

I like the 2.5 second GCD. There are lots of subtle ways in which the constraint makes combat more interesting to me. A longer GCD means a greater cost or punishment for making a bad choice.

Please don't change it S-E. Plenty of other MMO's have gone the faux-action route. Stick to your oldschool roots - it's obviously applied to 100's of 1000's of players. :)

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Originally Posted by Erana

So a number of people disagree with you, that they prefer this style of gameplay to more action orientated ones... and your answer is that they're wrong and should agree with you?

Different style of gameplay appeal to different people. It's how the gameplay is implemented that counts, not how fast it is.
I agree with aristo, the combat pace is just fine for the style of game that FFXIV is.

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A large number of people actually agree with me, but just dont care enough to bother. Just the forums here seems to be full of FF fans that prefer to turn a permissive blind eye.
That is perfectly fine. I wanted this game to be more, to challenge and surpass WoW. But if thats not what the hardcore FF fans want, then we will have to let history do the rest.

Why do we need a shorter cooldown, slow down. You don't gotta go fast, this isn't sonic the hedgehog.

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Originally Posted by Sentinel

WoW Devs are coming to the conclusion that lots of things to do and mash quickly does not equal skill or fun. Why would this game go into a design that has proven to be a problem even in a game like WoW. It is a bad idea to do this, WoW's Lead designer is actively trying to put an end to this very same issue. This game adds strategy to the GCD system, since you can time CDs properly to get better bang for the buck. The combat is not an issue, please don't make the Devs waste time on it.

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I assure you that they are not concluding anything of what you are saying. Those are your conclusions.
A fast and skillful combat system is the pinnacle of MMO game design. A slow combat system bores the player and makes him stop playing. Its a very simple premise really. Not everyone is into grinding, you know.

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Originally Posted by Valsh

Why do we need a shorter cooldown, slow down. You don't gotta go fast, this isn't sonic the hedgehog.

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Besides, there's also skill/spell speed to turn to. I intend to throw on some quick arm materia myself.

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Originally Posted by Valsh

Why do we need a shorter cooldown, slow down. You don't gotta go fast, this isn't sonic the hedgehog.

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What is this then? Not fun? Not engaging? You talk like its a really fast and huge deal. A 1.5sec cooldown is nothing we havent been used to for years. It isnt "too fast", its the norm. The combat here is "too slow" because it doesnt adhere to that norm. It doesnt flow. You just stand there not doing anything for long periods of time. Its quite boring. And lets not even talk how the abilities actually have a stealth GCD for activation.
But most insulting of all, is to think we the players are not intelligent enough to make a decision on wich skill to use in 1.5 seconds, even after we have done it hundreads or thousands of times. Its beyond me how anyone comes here and says they like it. I find it insulting to all other players.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

A large number of people actually agree with me, but just dont care enough to bother. Just the forums here seems to be full of FF fans that prefer to turn a permissive blind eye.
That is perfectly fine. I wanted this game to be more, to challenge and surpass WoW. But if thats not what the hardcore FF fans want, then we will have to let history do the rest.

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A large number of imaginary people in your head doesn't count.

Seriously, get over yourself, you're not the center of the world, the only thing insulting here is your sheer arrogance.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Besides, there's also skill/spell speed to turn to. I intend to throw on some quick arm materia myself.

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Spell skill does absolutely nothing. Dont use that excuse, it doesnt work. 0.05 faster doesnt make a difference to anyone. Besides i already adressed this on the Original OP post. Why not read that before replying?

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Originally Posted by Nica

A large number of imaginary people in your head doesn't count.

Seriously, get over yourself, you're not the center of the world.

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Right. You're too far beyond hope i see. This problem has been mentioned all across the internet forums. Did you know the game originally didnt have the abilities off the GCD? It was that same imaginary argument that took them off it. I'm one of the few on this forum trying to hopelessly give square the right feedback before its too late, but it seems that is not to happen.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

A fast and skillful combat system is the pinnacle of MMO game design. A slow combat system bores the player and makes him stop playing.

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I've been playing MMOs since EQ and UO in 97 and every major MMO since then. The best gaming experiences I can recall were from MMOs that had a longer GCD and/or longer times on skills. The reason for that is strategy and thinking ahead of time on what you plan to do next to counter whatever something or someone did. With theme park games like Warcraft they did away with consequence and made it a spam-fest where thought was almost entirely removed except for the complex mechanics involved around mostly movement during end-game raid content. The rest was just carpel tunnel syndrome waiting to happen.

FFXIV, while it has its issues, has a very old-school feel to it in regards to combat- and that's a very good thing. I wouldn't change a single thing about it except for the fucking terrible tab targeting system.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Right. You're too far beyond hope i see. This problem has been mentioned all across the internet forums. Did you know the game originally didnt have the abilities off the GCD? It was that same imaginary argument that took them off it. I'm one of the few on this forum trying to hopelessly give square the right feedback before its too late, but it seems that is not to happen.

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Yea, because people are supposed to take random people on the internet at face value :rolleyes: I also know a large number of people who just doesn't care enough to post who think your ideas are trash and should rot forever, it's true, because it's all over the internet.

Play a level 40 monk and get your stacks of greased lightning up. With some "skill speed +" gear you'll be hammering out attacks faster than your TP can handle.

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Originally Posted by Howitzer

I've been playing MMOs since EQ and UO in 97 and every major MMO since then. The best gaming experiences I can recall were from MMOs that had a longer GCD and/or longer times on skills. The reason for that is strategy and thinking ahead of time on what you plan to do next to counter whatever something or someone did. With theme park games like Warcraft they did away with consequence and made it a spam-fest where thought was almost entirely removed except for the complex mechanics involved around mostly movement during end-game raid content. The rest was just carpel tunnel syndrome waiting to happen.

FFXIV, while it has its issues, has a very old-school feel to it in regards to combat- and that's a very good thing. I wouldn't change a single thing about it except for the fucking terrible tab targeting system.

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What can you say? WoW kiddies doesn't know any better. I find it hilarious and sad that button-smashing is considered the "pinnacle" now.

@OP
No, I like it the way it is.

Wait what?! Faster GCD? Do you want to make my job as a tank even more hectic than it already is!

Seriously though. The GCD feels slow at low levels because.

- You don't have a lot of skills and cross-class skills to use
- Most of the time you're fine standing still and just spamming the same skill rotation

My monk and paladin level 50 are now a spamfest. Especially when tanking. I need to keep an eye on the enmity, use the proper skills, stun mobs at the right moment, deal damage and apply DoT's. My mind is everywhere and I wish I got more time to properly watch over the entire battle and my party members.

Please speak for yourself OP

I don't need a faster GCD, i'm very happy with it as it is

As a BLM there are definitely some issues with pacing. Using the instant cast cooldown and the +20% damage cooldown require that you wait about 1 second between the end of GCD, and then you cant' cast for another 1 second after. It's very, very, very clunky.

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Originally Posted by JonnyBigBoss

As a BLM there are definitely some issues with pacing. Using the instant cast cooldown and the +20% damage cooldown require that you wait about 1 second between the end of GCD, and then you cant' cast for another 1 second after. It's very, very, very clunky.

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You forget that with better gear and higher level that goes away. You're going to have a lot of things that increase SkillSpeed attribute later on and you'll be casting far faster than you are now. That GCD won't be a limiter for you for long.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

A large number of people actually agree with me, but just dont care enough to bother. Just the forums here seems to be full of FF fans that prefer to turn a permissive blind eye.
That is perfectly fine. I wanted this game to be more, to challenge and surpass WoW. But if thats not what the hardcore FF fans want, then we will have to let history do the rest.

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You are clueless, no offense. But you are not trying to make this game better than it is, you are simply trying to make it more like WoW since you are such a fanboi

I like the cooldown. Gives me enough time to run around the boss's backside and punch him in the ass with the right skill.

Fast cooldowns ruin games. Go look at a game called perfect world international and the assassin and blademaster class. The game has literally been ruined because the 2 classes attack so fast the characters twitch to an extreme speed and it looks really bad.

Hey OP, focus on a Skill speed build then. It will reduce your GCD, while other ppl will focus on a proper build and still out DPS you.

The system is a perfect pace when properly using skills and abilities.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

I assure you that they are not concluding anything of what you are saying. Those are your conclusions.
A fast and skillful combat system is the pinnacle of MMO game design. A slow combat system bores the player and makes him stop playing. Its a very simple premise really. Not everyone is into grinding, you know.

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Nobody reached that yet then, and the closest thing i can think is GW2 system, which is a massive failure.

Too slow? People are complaining just for the sake of complaining now? The Combat is fine. The 1.0 was slow, but 2.0 speed it up a lot. The way I see it is now the other way around. It was so fast that they take out the Skill Chain because skill now execute a lot faster.

You need to play your Class better and have the right skill Rotation. Rift, WoW is slower, go back there and play it if you don't believe me. Wow just seam faster because class have a gazillion skills to spam. Any faster we will turn Final Fantasy game into active combat, I for once agree with the producer saying this game is not to be real action combat and it doesn't work well with Final Fantasy.

I like it the way it is, so yeah don't speak for us.

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Originally Posted by Devilair

Nobody reached that yet then, and the closest thing i can think is GW2 system, which is a massive failure.

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To be honest, TERA is pretty close. For tab based combat both WoW and SWTOR are pretty decent. GW2 is good aswell, it just lacks variety and gets boring fast. But again, here is the logic that if its FF, its ok to be bad and to be behind the times.

You will never know what hit you. But revel in the fact that 2 months from now, when the servers are dieing, your lack of forward thinking brought about the situation.

I do wonder what you lot will do when FFXV comes out. No 2.5sec to make decisions there. Oh noes! Will this blind view come to change then? Somehow i think it will.

Dont bother, i wont be sticking around to be bored to death. I dont find a community like this worth saving.

play a monk

I don't play any melee DPS jobs, but I find the GCD to be about right on mages. Sure I'm capable of doing 2x as much in the same time. My MP can't take it (except on BLM heh) and tanks sure aren't capable of it. The battle system, while not the most complex I've ever seen, is pretty engaging and sometimes even demanding running 50 content.

Level THM and leave your soul crystal off, put on your melded Vanya. Run something 8 man with your FC. Then off heal, sleep, nuke, take the lead in CC. Come back and tell me you were bored.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

To be honest, TERA is pretty close. For tab based combat both WoW and SWTOR are pretty decent. GW2 is good aswell, it just lacks variety and gets boring fast. But again, here is the logic that if its FF, its ok to be bad and to be behind the times.

You will never know what hit you. But revel in the fact that 2 months from now, when the servers are dieing, your lack of forward thinking brought about the situation.

I do wonder what you lot will do when FFXV comes out. No 2.5sec to make decisions there. Oh noes! Will this blind view come to change then? Somehow i think it will.

Dont bother, i wont be sticking around to be bored to death. I dont find a community like this worth saving.

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Yeah dude, you are totally saving the game by trying to convince people who like the combat system that it needs to change for the game to succeed. There are many people on these forums who have played all sorts of MMO's and plenty of them enjoy the combat system in this game. I have personally played 6 MMO's other than this one and have no problems with the combat of this game. I must be a FF fanboy cause I completed one FF game and played FF11 while enjoying this games combat system.

I could see the PvP possibly not being amazing in this game but for me I could care less about PvP in MMO's. PvE works great IMO.

I wanna go fast!

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

the global cooldown at 2.5 seconds is just too long.

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There are no plans to adjust the rate of the GCD, but there are ways to speed up your skill and spell speeds through the use of food, different gear, and materia as well.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

I wanna go fast!



There are no plans to adjust the rate of the GCD, but there are ways to speed up your skill and spell speeds through the use of food, different gear, and materia as well.

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It's never too late. ;)

I'm enjoying the current pace, as a CNJ/WHM and as a ACN. My fingers don't bleed trying to push a million buttons in the span of two seconds, I can effectively do things without needing macros to do things for me, and I'm always doing *something* at least in Brayflox and Haukke Manor.

It's not too fast to where I would feel I may need to utilize macros to be efficient, but it's not too slow to where I'm feeling bored and staring at the ceiling.