Dodore over nerfed(and other nms too)

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

SE, why did you nerf already easily 8 mannable NM's, AND add a 10% acc/HP buff to 8 person parties? Dodore is a complete joke now, he has THREE adds instead of the 7-8 he had before, and a ton less life. Why? How simple are you trying to make this game? Do you guys not know how to adjust difficulty properly or something? Or are you trying to make things as easy as possible?

I don't get it at all, there is no reason to nerf such easy NM's and add a buff on top of it. This game just gets easier and easier every patch, what is our target audience here?

Making a game too easy will not attract more players and not make the game better or more casual, it'll just make people quit from BOREDOM. Please stop making things so easy, we want challenges, this game has none.

Edit: I'm level 48 and calling these things easy...lol.

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Im assuming that SE was not intending for these NM's to be difficult, I assume that the dungeons will be the test of strength, but I guess we will find out. I also agree that these NMs needed no nerf because they where already easy

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Originally Posted by Nero

Wow... i had some good laughs in this Thread. You all are coming from WoW or something?

ALL NM's are a Joke Now. Esp. by cutting down the Adds, which i dont understand really. People saying they are harder now? People saying they didnt change? People saying Dodore is a Beast without a THM?

Um... listen.. i dont know if its the Fact that our LS killed them uncountable Times, or the Fact that we all are Former FFXI-Gamers, but we 6-8 Man's the NM's allready BEFORE the Patch and saying that they are harder now or are not easier now, or that you cant do em without a THM is nothing but a big piece of Bullshit.

Cutting Down the Adds, from Dodore and the Goblin was by far the most worse thing to do. They were doable before the Patch with 8 People so why cut them down and make them even easier? The Partysize is now 8, but it doesnt really effect any of the Fight.. Its way easier and FASTER now since you dont have kill ALL the Adds, even Buffalo is way faster now, which i find weird. To much of Cutting the NM's there.

And they are NOT HNM's.. they are just NM's.. Do you People forget that we are sitting at a Rank50 Cap? Do you guys believe that this cap will be there for the next 20 Years? You could maybe say that those NM's are similiar to what KA, Sim etc in FFXI were. But thats about it.

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Yep. these Field NM's are exactly as hard as they need to be: not hard.

Nero - Roc and Simurgh were beasts of NMs at 50 cap in XI and no NM nor HNM were ever released after them that posed an actual challenge.

:D

Not everyone can be an elite MMO gamer and Kill Lich king oh Heroic 10/m while getting every achievement the fight has to offer at the same time....

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i guess the 5 person party with 1 mage that dropped the buffalo 3 times today were just that good. i can vouch for it because i was there. the buffalo is not harder by any stretch.

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We downed it too multiple times, but it doesn't mean it's not harder, no matter how much you "vouch". before the patch the stomp did around 600 damage to a full geared tank. Now it does around 900. That's a rather steep increase.
900 > 600 = harder.
I'm sure the math is not *that* difficult to do.

So, again, not all NMs were lowered. It's just balancing, and SE is completely entitled to balance the NMs according to the target they want to pursue. It's simple.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

We downed it too multiple times, but it doesn't mean it's not harder, no matter how much you "vouch". before the patch the stomp did around 600 damages to a full geared tank. Now it does around 900. That's a rather steep increase.
I'm sure the math is not *that* difficult to do.

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I said Dodore had an added 900 damage attack too, but people say that has been there.... Idk bout that.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I said Dodore had an added 900 damage attack too, but people say that has been there.... Idk bout that.

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What attack would that be?

I thot it was Shadowsear. I got hit by it after the patch and was like wtf, whered that come from. if not that some dodore-specific attack that was added.

Oh, Shadowsear could always crit for higher then 900 even before the patch. It caps out at 1136 on a R50 from Dodore if crit.

I didn't notice any special new attack on dodore to be honest.

I must have been lucky, I never got hit for over 700 prior to the patch. >.>

The crit doesn't always happen and it has a WIDE range of dmg, just like every other crit value in this game.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

We downed it too multiple times, but it doesn't mean it's not harder, no matter how much you "vouch". before the patch the stomp did around 600 damage to a full geared tank. Now it does around 900. That's a rather steep increase.
900 > 600 = harder.
I'm sure the math is not *that* difficult to do.

So, again, not all NMs were lowered. It's just balancing, and SE is completely entitled to balance the NMs according to the target they want to pursue. It's simple.

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it's also no difficult to do the math that pre patch the lowest number of people we could kill the buffalo with was 7 and now can do it with 5. we always needed at least 2 mages because the fight took so long, but now even though the damage was increased a little the hp was also dropped. with only 4 dps and 1 mage we can easily drop it while breaking both horns.

5 people with 1 mage < 7 people with 2 mages = easier
the math is not difficult to do.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

it's also no difficult to do the math that pre patch the lowest number of people we could kill the buffalo with was 7 and now can do it with 5. we always needed at least 2 mages because the fight took so long, but now even though the damage was increased a little the hp was also dropped. with only 4 dps and 1 mage we can easily drop it while breaking both horns.

5 people with 1 mage < 7 people with 2 mages = easier
the math is not difficult to do.

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Most probably you simply weren't good enough before the patch, or you didn't try with less. You're bringing in completely empyrical observation "we couldn't do it before, we can now!", while the numbers are clear. 900 > 600. That's all there's to it. 1.5X is not increasing "a little", and the duration of the fight is pretty much inconsequential to the number of mages needed (unless the mages are entirely crappy, mind you).
A monster that deals way higher constant damage but lasts less is quite more difficult than a monster that deals way lower constant damage but lasts more. Unless one is as weak as to bring it over the enrage timer, but that's a whole different pair of sleeves.

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Originally Posted by Bled

I play final fantasy XIV because it is not WoW, WoW is easy mode ZERG, and sit in city.

blah blah blah "you didn't raid if you think WoW is easy" and yes, yes i did back in vanilla WoW when the game was bearable and actually difficult.

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Arbitrary resistances as a requirement for raiding is not difficult. Mechanics-wise, vanilla was pretty much a joke until AQ40 and Naxx40 came about, and that was only because of Twin Emps, C'thun and Four Hoursemen. Show me how your guild one-shotted Firefighter and Alone in the Darkness right after Ulduar was implemented and I may believe you. Otherwise stop talking about something you've never seen or experienced.

PS: Since I foresee some nitpicking, the only reason I mention Nefarian is because I consider the class call outs from that encounter an interesting raid mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Arbitrary resistances as a requirement for raiding is not difficult. Mechanics-wise, vanilla was pretty much a joke until AQ40 and Naxx40 came about, and that was only because of Twin Emps, C'thun and Four Hoursemen. Show me how your guild one-shotted Firefighter and Alone in the Darkness right after Ulduar was implemented and I may believe you. Otherwise stop talking about something you've never seen or experienced.

PS: Since I foresee some nitpicking, the only reason I mention Nefarian is because I consider the class call outs from that encounter an interesting raid mechanic.

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Ok you got me i have not played since the release of Lich o nos!!!! However that does not change the fact that from BC till (ill take your word on this) Uldah patch the game was ridiculously easy if you were in a well established guild.. After high school i became a casual player and had not time for Raids much like many people on my old guild. the few friends that still play the game are always complaining about how easy the game has gotten because the developers now cater to the "nubs" (again i do not know if this is true because i don't care about WoW one bit). So I'm going to take their word on it over yours, and if you want to argue that fact take it to the WoW forums. I was not aware you needed 6 years of experience in WoW to be able to say anything about your precious MMO fanboy.

If you want to sit in Org or Storm all day long in instance ques not enjoying anything other than the same instances and raids over and over again, which eventually become easy... more power to you.

Edit: you have no need to foresee nitpicking because your the only one who cares about WoW, I'm done with that game have been for awhile. Implementing things from WoW is a step backwards FFXIV needs to become its own game.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Most probably you simply weren't good enough before the patch, or you didn't try with less. You're bringing in completely empyrical observation "we couldn't do it before, we can now!", while the numbers are clear. 900 > 600. That's all there's to it. 1.5X is not increasing "a little", and the duration of the fight is pretty much inconsequential to the number of mages needed (unless the mages are entirely crappy, mind you).
A monster that deals way higher constant damage but lasts less is quite more difficult than a monster that deals way lower constant damage but lasts more. Unless one is as weak as to bring it over the enrage timer, but that's a whole different pair of sleeves.

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yeah i know i got alot better during the 2 hours the game was down. the same group we had before the patch that could not do the nm met to try it again knowing they were going to nerf it. we were right unless our gaming skills improved dramatically during that 2 hour time span.

I don't know what to make of these changes. If you compare old strength of NMs to new strength, yes they're easier if you compare fighting them with 8 people. But if you compare fighting old strength with 15 to new strength with 8 I think they've become a bit more challenging. That said, making an easy challenge a little more challenging doesn't make it hard.

"I'm a grumpy old troll... Who lives under the bridge! I am a grumpy old troll.. that lives under the bridge. If you want come over, all you have to do is this...! All you have to do is this.... Solve my riddle!" Dora the Explorer, Grumpy Old Troll.

I wouldn't mind seeing more rank 50 worthy NM fights in FFXIV. There is the roaming buffalo that is still a challenge apparently with an eight man group. It sounds like Dodore shouldn't have been touched with the nerf bat. Other than guild leves, it would be great to see more. I will be waiting patiently as usual. ^.^

They didn't increase the buffalo strength at all and I can tell you that because I tanked it with my THM and it did the same damage to me as he ever did whenever I grabbed hate or ran too close to him.

I don't understand why they had to dumb down the old NMs, we were able to kill the Buffalo with just 4 people 2 times (We were ARC, PGL, MAR and me THM) in about 20-23 minutes before the patch, heck I even duoed him before but I had to reset rage once for that, but now that they reduced his HP I doubt I even need to reset rage anymore. I also duoed the Elder Mosshorn with my friend Sakura (PGL) post patch wich we were not able to do before because they were 7 goats total and we got our butts kicked badly the 2 times we tired to do so, but now that they removed 3 of them the fight was much easier.

If that's not easier to you then I'm afraid to hear what that would be, I really am.

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Originally Posted by Danielle_Vahn

If that's not easier to you then I'm afraid to hear what that would be, I really am.

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If you haven't noticed the self proclaimed "majority" (the 13 ~ish people who post on the forums more then they play the game) want everyone to be able to obtain anything they want no matter how much they play and no matter how bad they are in less then an hour.

A THM in my LS went out and duo'd dodore for a while yesterday and got 9 wings. 9.

I don't know how much easier anything could be and people still think it's hard. And anything they add in the future will surely have to become easier because people will cry about it.

They nerfed the shit out of all of the NMs, including Great Buffalo. It can now be solo'd by Thaumaturge.

I don't think previosu NMs can be solo/duo/trio, but I agree about 8 man-able, since I have witness it before with my eyes on Great Buffalo/ Urakeus/ Dodore. (never try 8 on Goblin and Aldgoat)

I thought they would make NM become more challenge once they reduce party of 15 into 8. but now, it seem that they nerfed them badly, and I think they need to bring more challenge NM into the place soon. The kind of NMs that you can't sleep while fighting it....

Accelerator Scarlet from the Gyshal server soloed Great Buffalo on Thaumaturge yesterday.
Kaeko Leta (Kanican) just completed a solo against the new-nerfed Mosshorn. He'll be releasing a video soon.

Seeing Dodore with just 3 minions made me really sad, I was really hoping they would not touch the old NMs after the party reduction but they did. I am not complaining about the new NMs because those are intended for ppl rank 40-45 solo or a party of rank 30-35 guys and that's ok but who said the old 5 were hard? And even worst thought they needed to be dumbed down for the party reduction. When I found out about it on the patch day I felt really bad and scared of the direction the game is headed.

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

Accelerator Scarlet from the Gyshal server soloed Great Buffalo on Thaumaturge yesterday.
Kaeko Leta (Kanican) just completed a solo against the new-nerfed Mosshorn. He'll be releasing a video soon.

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The Great Buffalo was soloable before the patch you just needed to reset his rage more times that is all.

The ideia of the game is to make the thing difficult and not easier.

I prefer mob's hard like crazy instead of easy ones, like this "new" NM's. I almost soloed Alux with my 37 THM and in a good mood i really think i could beat him but this NM's are for r35-r40 ones.

Dodore and other NM's dont have to be for r50 but its has to be very hard for a r50 all party...

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Originally Posted by Danielle_Vahn

Seeing Dodore with just 3 minions made me really sad, I was really hoping they would not touch the old NMs after the party reduction but they did. I am not complaining about the new NMs because those are intended for ppl rank 40-45 solo or a party of rank 30-35 guys and that's ok but who said the old 5 were hard? And even worst thought they needed to be dumbed down for the party reduction. When I found out about it on the patch day I felt really bad and scared of the direction the game is headed.

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I'm with ya there. The only challenge I feel is getting claim over the NMs now that more groups feel comfortable with fighting the NMs and I'm usually solo when I decide to do it. However, solo or low man was just for the achievement and to test your ability as players/as a player. Taking Emulate out of the equation and the strategy to reset rage timers, I don't know if the NMs were intended to be at that difficulty. I'm on the fence about that part though.. as I feel even without those things it would still not be that huge of a challenge to a small group even pre patch.

I think if a reasoning was posted along with the change, it would combat the uneasy feeling players such as us are feeling about the future and wanting to be challenged even more. Or.. who knows? Confirm it. I am hoping it is due to the huge battle system overhaul and changes in the skill/stat modifiers.

Me and 3 of my ls mates are doing all the NM without thm .... like this there is some challenge, but Se needs to set max 4 ppl in pts..

Usually when we doing NM in 8 Im watching TV....

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Originally Posted by Danielle_Vahn

Seeing Dodore with just 3 minions made me really sad

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Yep. The NMs didn't really need to be nerfed. It was hilarious, though, seeing people post in the 1.17patch notes that the "rebalancing" would make the NMs harder. lol

All the old NMs are way too easy now..

This game target for casual players.
If you want some challenge try find some other game to play :P

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Originally Posted by Miyochan

This game target for casual players.
If you want some challenge try find some other game to play :P

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You can be casual and still enjoy a challenge. The part of the NM system that caters for casuals, I would say, is the fast respawn times. You don't have to camp for hours and days for a small chance at claiming a mob.

Just get a decent group or if you're good enough, solo. There's nothing hardcore about that. It doesn't take long and it's fairly easy.

If you want easy, why don't you play another game lol:P

Aiming at the hardcore MMO players is a very bad decision, they are a very small, unprofitable, unforgiving, demanding and for the most part disloyal target playerbase. If you can make a game that appeals to single player type gamers that have other stuff going on in their lives and have jobs etc you make a lot more money and have a more loyal playerbase long-term. They are also vastly less demanding onm new content, it's win win to make a game casual and rewarding for that type of player.

The only true thing people hate about casual content is that anyone can do it and get the rewards, people simply have to realise where the money is now and that hardcore MMO players are not a valuable commodity they used to be. Far from it.

Sadly for any MMO dev it's impossible to please both because the hardcore players don't actually want to be challenged, if it was that easy then it would be simple. What they actually want is to get rewards above and beyond what casual players can get and casual players will baulk at not being able to get the best gear due to having a job/other intrests.