Back Paddling is horrible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

I take it you were not in 1.0 Beta?

---

I was not, but I get what you are referring too, and this is a different team with different leaders running it, meaning it will most likely have a DIFFERENT outcome ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

No, I didn't say one setups should hold back the other one. I said all should be designed in such way they are equal.

---

Except that making them equal IS holding some of them back. To make them equal you have to bring one down to the level of the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pool842

Ya I know what ya mean, but to make fighting more realistic, spontaneous and tougher, you have to have it sometimes. Otherwise you have to rely on inflated stats of mobs, and invisible fight mechanics to make fights hard which in essence alone sucks... ya know? Its going to be awhile for games to use physics like Tera, and even then they use twitch mechanics sometimes to along with stats dodging bla bla bla lol.

---

This is a fantasy game, it's not supposed to be realistic. twitch gaming doesn't belong here. Combat doesn't have to be hyper fast to be fun and engaging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is a fantasy game, it's not supposed to be realistic. twitch gaming doesn't belong here. Combat doesn't have to be hyper fast to be fun and engaging.

---

That is your opinion and I respect that, and I agree HYPER fast is not always the key, but that does not mean that certain parts of fights can't be a little more reactive. Final fantasy has always had twitch gaming now that we have coined that term lol. Its the difference between active fast and wait combat all the way back since Final Fantasy 7. For me its more of a reaction in combat such as get out of fire in less then 2 seconds or you die type thing. Not everybody is going to like old school stand still RPG combat.. I do btw... but that is not the future of the genre anymore. From an MMO standpoint.

Funny enough, for every situation that needed me to move quickly, I always hit the q or e buttons and not s (in 1.0). But that was me I guess, easy stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

Except that making them equal IS holding some of them back. To make them equal you have to bring one down to the level of the other.

---

I said all should designed IN SUCH WAY they are equal.

That means NOT equal in design, but equal in VERSATILITY.

Take a look at the action bar. For keyboard its horizontal, for gamepad its a six axis menu.

Back peddalling is used during battles, moreso than anything. It's a way to position yourself properly without needing to toggle walk/run. It's in there for a reason other than "well WoW did it!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

It has to be a standard MMORPG after all and having a lot of movement animations doesn't fit into that.

---

Like a broken record.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pool842

That is your opinion and I respect that, and I agree HYPER fast is not always the key, but that does not mean that certain parts of fights can't be a little more reactive. Final fantasy has always had twitch gaming now that we have coined that term lol. Its the difference between active fast and wait combat all the way back since Final Fantasy 7. For me its more of a reaction in combat such as get out of fire in less then 2 seconds or you die type thing. Not everybody is going to like old school stand still RPG combat.. I do btw... but that is not the future of the genre anymore. From an MMO standpoint.

---

Then MMORPGs in general, especially this one, are really not for you. In a world where everything is getting faster and faster and faster in gaming, it's honestly refershing to have a team that goes "whoa, whoa, is this really necessary?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruisu

Back peddalling is used during battles, moreso than anything. It's a way to position yourself properly without needing to toggle walk/run. It's in there for a reason other than "well WoW did it!"



Like a broken record.

---

Well, this isn't really a matter of back pedaling is useless and it should be removed, its more about:
wait, back pedaling comes in as the default movement?
wasn't back pedaling featured in 1.0 already without meddling with basic movement?
did we have a problem with the original method which was employed in both XIV and XI with not a single complaint?

ask yourself, what do you do more often:
turn around, or back pedal?

it should be pretty clear which action should be default and which triggered by an extra button.

Why are some people obsessed with the idea that ARR should be exactly how they think it should be, maybe they are just a bit backwards?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNPFk4QoTbg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pool842

That is your opinion and I respect that, and I agree HYPER fast is not always the key, but that does not mean that certain parts of fights can't be a little more reactive. Final fantasy has always had twitch gaming now that we have coined that term lol. Its the difference between active fast and wait combat all the way back since Final Fantasy 7. For me its more of a reaction in combat such as get out of fire in less then 2 seconds or you die type thing. Not everybody is going to like old school stand still RPG combat.. I do btw... but that is not the future of the genre anymore. From an MMO standpoint.

---

I'm with you. Combat can be as fast as they want to make it. They just have to make sure they don't make it so simple people can come up with standard "Rotations" and pretend they are elite.

If players cycle through the same skills more than twice in a row, your fight is to easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruisu

Back peddalling is used during battles, moreso than anything. It's a way to position yourself properly without needing to toggle walk/run. It's in there for a reason other than "well WoW did it!"

---

That's funny, cause in 1.0 the current Dev team released Boss fights where backpedaling guaranteed death.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thebard

Why are some people obsessed with the idea that ARR should be exactly how they think it should be, maybe they are just a bit backwards?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNPFk4QoTbg

---

This forums was created so we could tell the Dev Team how we wanted the game to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

This forums was created so we could tell the Dev Team how we wanted the game to be.

---

Perhaps you don't fully understand the meaning of the word obssession

ob·ses·sion (b-sshn, b-)
n.
1. Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety.
2. A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thebard

Perhaps you don't fully understand the meaning of the word obssession

ob·ses·sion (b-sshn, b-)
n.
1. Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety.
2. A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion.

---

alot of people here have that but we tend to not let it bother us...>.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

I said all should designed IN SUCH WAY they are equal.

That means NOT equal in design, but equal in VERSATILITY.

Take a look at the action bar. For keyboard its horizontal, for gamepad its a six axis menu.

---

Except you can't. You can make some functions similar, but one will always be superior to the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

Well, this isn't really a matter of back pedaling is useless and it should be removed, its more about:
wait, back pedaling comes in as the default movement?
wasn't back pedaling featured in 1.0 already without meddling with basic movement?
did we have a problem with the original method which was employed in both XIV and XI with not a single complaint?

ask yourself, what do you do more often:
turn around, or back pedal?

it should be pretty clear which action should be default and which triggered by an extra button.

---

They're taking feedback from many alpha testers as we speak, they can add the old movement of 1.0 back in for those who don't want the PC-like controls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

That's funny, cause in 1.0 the current Dev team released Boss fights where backpedaling guaranteed death.

---

Like what? Ifrit? backpeddaling would have been nice as a WHM for that fight, same for BLM. Adjusting for plumes and Vulcan blasts.

Chimera? all of the ranged being able to adjust for Voice of the Dragon or the sandworms.

There's not really a fight where backpeddaling would inhibit the player. You'd have to adjust, sure, but it would take all of five seconds to do. I'm not really for backpeddaling either, it's one of my gripes in 2.0. But it does have it's uses, and it's more efficient than pressing X to walk and then adjust yourself that way.

Yeah, I am right with you there. I posted about this ages ago, but everyone said it's pre-alpha, don't worry about it!

Bring back the old animations at least as an option.

Black Pudding is horrible.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ck_pudding.jpg

...wait...what?...I read that wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Then MMORPGs in general, especially this one, are really not for you. In a world where everything is getting faster and faster and faster in gaming, it's honestly refershing to have a team that goes "whoa, whoa, is this really necessary?"

---

Oh it will be for me and many other mmo players out there I think you are the one that will be disappointed honestly. Yes you may have to stop laying down on your couch to play you may have to sit up and pay attention but it will be worth it in the end wink wink lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

Well, this isn't really a matter of back pedaling is useless and it should be removed, its more about:
wait, back pedaling comes in as the default movement?
wasn't back pedaling featured in 1.0 already without meddling with basic movement?
did we have a problem with the original method which was employed in both XIV and XI with not a single complaint?




ask yourself, what do you do more often:
turn around, or back pedal?

it should be pretty clear which action should be default and which triggered by an extra button.

---

The problem with movement in 1.0 is that when you did run backward the game camera did not follow you fast enough and there is no way the camera ever could with out confusing you... Hence the back peddling with complete control of the camera is needed. you don't back peddle if you you don;t need to you turn the damn camera lol.... wow... also as a caster being able to kite sideways while facing forward without, your character turning all the way around is a big deal that's how you survive. If they introduce pvp you will see what I mean. In fact I may put a video on here showing the difference later. Back peddling is to make sure you can face forward while still moving. As a melee it may not be that big of deal but as caster its a really big deal. It comes natural if you know how to use your camera.. there does not have to be a toggle switch or button. just learn the controls of your character... why add more shit to take care of when you don't need to?

Why do I have this sense that if it were different, or Yoshida had said that it should be changed to be more free, that certain people would have a very different opinion on the subject?

I'm definitely going to wait until at least beta before drawing conclusions on movement. They may add more features to customize it. I for one hope they bring back the XI way, lock=backpeddle unlock=turn and run. Backpeddling seems to fit the current engine though, archers having a conal attack etc. They want people to not be running from the fight it seems.

Somewhere around the road this thread was turned into gamepad vs keyboard+mouse.

This thread is about back pedaling.
The setups for just keyboard, and just gamepad haven't been released yet, so there's only room for speculation.

What we can say for a fact, however, is the following:
-1.0 had a system that involved back pedaling without meddling with normal movement and no one ever complained.
-Turning around happens more often than having to back pedal.
-In moments of haste (running away from a special attack for example) you'll want to turn around, not back pedal.

Let me underline that.
What do you do more often? Turn around.
When there's no time to think, do you want to turn around or back pedal? Turn around.

Yet we are switching to a system that makes turning around more cumbersome than back pedaling. That makes no sense.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Or copy Blizzard's wheel.

To whoever said mages should be glad about backpedaling, let me tell you, it is much better if you have to run away by running at full speed backwards vs. @backpedal speed backwards. One is adventurous and the other is ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

Somewhere around the road this thread was turned into gamepad vs keyboard+mouse.

This thread is about back pedaling.
The setups for just keyboard, and just gamepad haven't been released yet, so there's only room for speculation.

What we can say for a fact, however, is the following:
-1.0 had a system that involved back pedaling without meddling with normal movement and no one ever complained.
-Turning around happens more often than having to back pedal.
-In moments of haste (running away from a special attack for example) you'll want to turn around, not back pedal.

Let me underline that.
What do you do more often? Turn around.
When there's no time to think, do you want to turn around or back pedal? Turn around.

Yet we are switching to a system that makes turning around more cumbersome than back pedaling. That makes no sense.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Or copy Blizzard's wheel.

---

So your saying the same thing yet you have no idea what your talking about great I guess I am done here. Yes you won't back peddle... YOU WILL USE YOUR CAMERA TO TURN....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pool842

So your saying the same thing yet you have no idea what your talking about great I guess I am done here. Yes you won't back peddle... YOU WILL USE YOUR CAMERA TO TURN....

---

It's just not the same. It's not classy. Wait til you try to look around your character. You will feel like you're crudely trying to carve out camera angles, where before it was smooth as butter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pool842

So your saying the same thing yet you have no idea what your talking about great I guess I am done here. Yes you won't back peddle... YOU WILL USE YOUR CAMERA TO TURN....

---

Maji is referring to the fact that you WILL have to resort to turning via the mouse or pressing the "A"/"D" keys. When in FFXIV v1 is was as simple as pressing "S" to make your 180 degree turn. Quick and easy.

Now I completely agree with Maji on this matter, however, it seems to be something we'll need to get used to and see what comes of it.

PS. Ummm Maji knows what he's talking about (bring it! POST #1! BRING IT!)

I'm more interested in seeing HOW they implement this scheme to gamepad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6cGArJavcQ

its not about making a 180 turn its about making any turn you need with almost no adjustment which a mouse does. watch this video they are kind of annoying but you can see how the camera is used and i wish they had the same type of movement in 1.0... here is hoping for 2.0 lol. I know final fantasy is not wow but I still want the same freedom of movement and reaction times with my character.

I actually disliked that the only way to back pedal was to be locked on, which also restricted camera and normal movement. Instantly swapping directions with a single press of a key/stick bothered me more.

And to Neptune, what drugs are you on? Getting a camera angle on your character is simple with a mouse only.

Agree. i hate backpadling aswell.
Also how are u gonna see your character's face ever.
like taking screenshots with your ls and stuff is gonna be past....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YuriSan

Agree. i hate backpadling aswell.
Also how are u gonna see your character's face ever.
like taking screenshots with your ls and stuff is gonna be past....

---

If thats not sarcasm then I pity you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thebard

If thats not sarcasm then I pity you.

---

Pretty much lol

I honestly just hope that there is an option that you can select in the 'character movement' section or something like that where you can select:
When pressing the "move back key" have character model:
*backpedal
*turn around

problem solved?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YuriSan

Agree. i hate backpadling aswell.
Also how are u gonna see your character's face ever.
like taking screenshots with your ls and stuff is gonna be past....

---

"back pedaling" is a natural movement in real life.. (especially in combat)

so why it shound be ingame? tell me more..



and i know MANY MMorpgs who work like that.. Dark Age of camelot etc... and the movement is good.. i say why shouldnt i walk backwards with my character?



it would look handicapped if i only were able to walk forwards... or are you doing like that in real life? JUST walking forward?

strange opinions around here..
hopefully Yoshi p. wont listen to those "shitty" voices and creates a NEW game, with MANY differences in comparison to 1.0.


LET 1.0. FUCKING GO! God damn..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YuriSan

Agree. i hate backpadling aswell.
Also how are u gonna see your character's face ever.
like taking screenshots with your ls and stuff is gonna be past....

---

.............

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

hopefully Yoshi p. wont listen to those "shitty" voices and creates a NEW game, with MANY differences in comparison to 1.0.

---

By "new" game, do you mean WoW? Because I have yet to hear a good argument from the pro-default-back-pedalling people that shows this is a good idea and no simply a scheme to make transition easier for WoW players who try the game out.

1.0's setup was more natural, more aesthetical and made more sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

By "new" game, do you mean WoW? Because I have yet to hear a good argument from the pro-default-back-pedalling people that shows this is a good idea and no simply a scheme to make transition easier for WoW players who try the game out.

1.0's setup was more natural, more aesthetical and made more sense.

---

natural? when you are fighting,and you are going to get some distance from your enemy, you turn your back to your enemy? sorry, its not natural for me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aion

natural? when you are fighting,and you are going to get some distance from your enemy, you turn your back to your enemy? sorry, its not natural for me

---

Exactly.

When you are fighting. I don't know about you, but 3/4s of my time, I am not fighting.
So when you aren't? Do you feel it natural to be walking around, constantly back pedaling?
You just made my point.

1.0's system permits to narrow down back pedaling for when there's a target to back pedal from.

Exactly as you said. Keep back pedaling linked to targeting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majidah

Exactly.

When you are fighting. I don't know about you, but 3/4s of my time, I am not fighting.
So when you aren't? Do you feel it natural to be walking around, constantly back pedaling?
You just made my point.

1.0's system permits to narrow down back pedaling for when there's a target to back pedal from.

Exactly as you said. Keep back pedaling linked to targeting.

---

when not fighting?I turn my direction, what is the problem here?