Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quesse

I actually didn't really like that FFXI was so limiting in its job selection - in that it was completely annoying before abyssea to level more than 2-3 jobs to 75 and gear them. You had to really pick what to focus on and didn't get to enjoy all the jobs that FFXI had to offer.

---

Personally that's what I liked about it. it made things alot more diverse. everyone had a different set of jobs levelled and there weren't really many people the same. and in a way ensured people could play what they wanted. if you had dragoon you weren't told to go warrior or sam or whatever. you could happily stay drg. in xiv though even if you have drg you'd go monk at miser....

---

But you're missing my point. I understand that you guys don't want to be stuck at the same job for every fight. But taking the flexibility away robs people of the fun of being able to pick different jobs at any time. Just because some groups idiotically stick to prescribed party formulas like sheep, doesn't mean all do. It would be sad to rob those people of fun just because you're bitter. Ideally, the job/armoury system is great. Let's not fix it by getting rid of it >.<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

This isn't the armoury system's fault. It's the playerbase's fault. Don't go picking at SE for what the community themselves have limited on their own.

---

Exactly! Great post!

Why not just find ppl who feel the same as you? I personally like the job system in this one. I like swapping to what job my party needs when i need it. If you only want to lvl one job, and only play that one job, then good for you. Ppl did that in FFXI. And the outcome is the same. If in FFXIV you have DRG and BLM lvld, and youre gonna enter a dungeon that calls for Blm, thier gonna have you swap right there to Blm. If it was FFXIV but with FFXI job swapping only in your room, in the same situation their gonna have you go BACK to your mog and change to Blm. What exactly is the difference here? If they really want to be a certai job class, do you think that you have a better chance of getting an invite just because you have to add a few mins while everyone waits for you to go back home and change? That doesnt seem to make a lot of sense.

If youre upset at ppl job stacking, or having certain jobs for certain events, that not fully SE's fault. Some jobs excel at certain things easier than other. And often people will pick the job combos that they feel are the most efficient. If you want to go Mnk to Garuda, then why not find a group that will let you? Show that youre good at it. And if you guys wipe over and over than work on that or swap your party to something easier.

I makes no sense to want options taken away from the player base to suit your own personal needs. So instead of arguing to take away said options, why not argue with your friends to do a diff setup you like, and show them you all can win with that set up.

Again In FFXI, if i was on Dancer And we were about to enter Abyssea and fight some NM where the strat called for only teh tank to melee, and they didnt WANT my dnc, the shell is going to make me go home and change to what they want. I like not having to go back to my mog house just to change jobs. You having Mnk and Blm lvld, isnt going to make you able to play Mnk if your group wants you on Blm.... what do you think will happen? That if you have to go back to your room th leader will say... "oh darn, we will have to wait 5 mins for him to change, ok stay Mnk and lets enter".... no he will make you go home and change. But as it stand now, you can swap to Blm outside the entrance to a fight.

So it seems to me, your topic should have been more an argument on making every job just as viable in every fight.

Whilst I agree there are some notes in this thread worth merit, Such as cookie cutter builds for dungeons/ boss fights/etc leaving some jobs under-utilized. There is one thing I staunchly disagree with...

The OP stated a few times, another player could swap to his job and be " as good as him " or the lolsummoners could be as good as him just by swapping weapon.

Im calling BS on that one. Anyone can swap to a Paladin, but You can bet your ass they aren't instantly as good as the person that Plays it as often as they can, or dedicates them self to it.

Anyone can swap to BLM for a dungeon sure, but that guy in the party that lives on it will outshine them.

If you are worried that the lolsummoners will get you lost in the crowd, you arent a good summoner.
If you are complaining that the current whatever class can equip a main hand tool and be as good as you, you are just another nameless face in the crowd and you need to excel.

But still... if you could only change in your room, the same thing would happen. The only difference is one is instant, the other require you to walk back to your room....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

If youre upset at ppl job stacking, or having certain jobs for certain events, that not fully SE's fault. Some jobs excel at certain things easier than other. And often people will pick the job combos that they feel are the most efficient. If you want to go Mnk to Garuda, then why not find a group that will let you? Show that youre good at it. And if you guys wipe over and over than work on that or swap your party to something easier.

I makes no sense to want options taken away from the player base to suit your own personal needs. So instead of arguing to take away said options, why not argue with your friends to do a diff setup you like, and show them you all can win with that set up.

Again In FFXI, if i was on Dancer And we were about to enter Abyssea and fight some NM where the strat called for only teh tank to melee, and they didnt WANT my dnc, the shell is going to make me go home and change to what they want. I like not having to go back to my mog house just to change jobs. You having Mnk and Blm lvld, isnt going to make you able to play Mnk if your group wants you on Blm.... what do you think will happen? That if you have to go back to your room th leader will say... "oh darn, we will have to wait 5 mins for him to change, ok stay Mnk and lets enter".... no he will make you go home and change. But as it stand now, you can swap to Blm outside the entrance to a fight.

So it seems to me, your topic should have been more an argument on making every job just as viable in every fight.

---

Some players excel at any job, some excel at a few and some are best at their one 'special first-love' job. It's totally your choice how you play this and the flexibility with the way SE allows us to change jobs quickly makes things much better in terms of game experience for me.

I am one of those players with all 50 having played since CE release but I know that when my Linkshell asks me to play BRD or DRG because they need one for what they are doing, I ensure I give them the standard warning that my BRD is inexperienced or not geared well - eventually over time I hope to be better at those jobs too! If they still want me then cool, if not I can just elect to go and do something else or see if someone else in the linkshell/party wants to change. Because of this flexibility players in our shell with only one choice (because it's their only 50 or otherwise) get to continue playing that particular content with us because other members have the flexibility to change so they get included. If SE didn't have job change via weapon then that lone WHM or DRG simply might not have a place in the party.

I also agree that it's not SE's fault that you get cookie-cutter groups for Garuda etc. It's up to the community to try and figure out new ways of beating content. Take the Moogle fight for instance. The standard is to have your blm burn but you can swap things around and do mnk burn and thanks to some innovative people a whm speed run burn which is such fun (and I never beat before the end :( ). Part of the fun for me was to get a core group together and do some experimenting and I salute people from BG etc for spending the time and effort figuring things out for people. If I want to copy a strat from BG it's a good experience but it's also fun to try new things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KimimiAvesta

Not that it counts for much, but I always thought you were a damn good PLD :D

---

Kimimi! You're too sweet!

I believe yoshida hinted at making it impossible to switch classes inside of a dungeon. I always hated it too, having to be force to play X or Y. I personally dont play or want to play BLM, MNK or BRD, just leveled them for the achieve. I didn't even bother to finish BRD job quests.

I don't think it is going to be an issue in ARR tho, since the concept of speed running is going away, people would likely be able to play what they want. The trailer that shows the party fighting the dragon is perfectly balanced, 1 of each class (2 WHM tho i think) so I'm hoping it will come down to that for ARR dungeons. But we will have to see what happens.

If it works out, I will be able to put my WAR gear up too, unless they make it easier to DPS with it (I prefer to tank as pld!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraHime

Im calling BS on that one. Anyone can swap to a Paladin, but You can bet your ass they aren't instantly as good as the person that Plays it as often as they can, or dedicates them self to it.

---

So much truth oozing from this post that it's dropping from my screen.

Sure, little Jimmy can change to Paladin. This may even make your group feel good about your setup. But without experience, without feeling the job regularly, your group is gonna fail the moment Jimmy gets splattered to on the wall by Coincounter.

Skill and experience will make up a great deal of ability in a group. You can preach how PLD BLM MNK MNK MNK MNK MNK WHM is the best setup for Miser's Mistress, but if one of those MNKs is a better skilled and geared DRG, your DPS will be better by having them on their best job.

MNK may be "optimal" for the fight if everyone can play MNK at peak efficiency, but if you do 100 DPS on MNK and 115 DPS on DRG....why go with the "Optimal" setup when you'll do better allowing that person to go DRG?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edy

....

---

Omg Edy you guys still play!
I logged on Black Mamba on few occasions and since there was no one around (shouted in Uldah a bit too!!! haha) I decided to start over on another character with some RL friends on another server :o

SORRY that was so off topic, but my face lit up when I saw your post :D
Hope all is good!!!

I take extreme pride in playing a Wizard, I like to try to individualize myself through my pride and dedication to it. There is something that I don't like though.

In order to truly stand out among the others is by how much money you put into the class/job, not skill. You could know the timing to start casting, know when to stop casting, when you can do maximum damage, other things. None of that matters if your not geared correctly. It's changing in 2.0, but who knows what will happen.

I understand the frustration with OP on this one. It seems like everyone who was serious about this game was able to get the AF gear for each job, and as such they could slide into any uniform and be any role as needed. I think part of this is how easy it is for characters to get to level 50 on everything and unlock all the achievements for each class. Once everyone gets a gold star, gold stars aren't that special anymore. Part of the appeal of a role playing game is that you play a role in the game - and that role should be something that you can do better than anyone else because you dedicated yourself to it. When it is so easy to get to level 50, and all the gear that benefits that class is the same for everyone, pretty soon everyone will be sitting on the top and all have the same everything. It really makes the game feel bland and makes your achievements feel worthless.

When I first saw people getting to level 50 in the first year of the game I thought to myself "Damn, you worked hard. Bravo, sir in your achievement." Now when I see people at 50 I think to myself "Meh, we're all at 50."

Even though you can freely switch classes. The jobs you main are the ones you become skilled at, and often times are better then others at the role. A lot of people on Excalibur know that i'm a Dragoon. People i've never met. One time someone came up to me and said "Holy crap, you're not on Dragoon!?"

I agree, jobs had much more meaning in FFXI. The problem is we were never meant to have jobs. The armoury system was deigned for us to make out own builds.

As for you last point, this is why I left 3 classes, 2 i was interested in to lv in 2.0, I'll get to explore with something other than arcanist, woot!

How did the jobs in XI have more meaning?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uriahnool

I understand the frustration with OP on this one. It seems like everyone who was serious about this game was able to get the AF gear for each job, and as such they could slide into any uniform and be any role as needed. I think part of this is how easy it is for characters to get to level 50 on everything and unlock all the achievements for each class. Once everyone gets a gold star, gold stars aren't that special anymore. Part of the appeal of a role playing game is that you play a role in the game - and that role should be something that you can do better than anyone else because you dedicated yourself to it. When it is so easy to get to level 50, and all the gear that benefits that class is the same for everyone, pretty soon everyone will be sitting on the top and all have the same everything. It really makes the game feel bland and makes your achievements feel worthless.

When I first saw people getting to level 50 in the first year of the game I thought to myself "Damn, you worked hard. Bravo, sir in your achievement." Now when I see people at 50 I think to myself "Meh, we're all at 50."

---

As I mentioned before, if you think dedicated means 50 with AF you're incredibly wrong. That's the bare minimum for "completing" a job. If you want to be better than everyone, be better than everyone. Get your melded/best in slot gear, get a superior weapon, learn how to play the job well.

If you really want to feel a sense of pride and have people look at your character and say "Damn you worked hard" then deck out your job. I still see people and think that but those people have darklight, triple melds and relics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

How did the jobs in XI have more meaning?

---

You couldn't switch jobs anywhere, just in your moghouse. So if you were in a dungeon or somewhere with a party, you were what you were and hopefully were good at it.

I have no problem with being able to switch whenever. The problem with the armory system is that once you start actually playing XIV you realize that you really don't have any freedom to play a class the way you want to play it and still be effective or effective in different ways from someone else playing the same class.

FFXI has subjobs.
Most MMOs have skill trees.

XIV has the armory system which is really an illusion of customization.

This may have already been said (I skipped to the end after 2 pages) but with XIV having been out for a couple years now, it's pretty likely that most of the players who've been around longer than a few months will have most jobs maxed out. It's really only a matter of time before "Ooo, you're 50!" becomes "ah, you're 50... in everything".

Pairing that inevitability with the human tendency to go for the path of least resistance, one would naturally expect prescribed party setups for particular in-game scenarios.

It seems to me that to avoid this—allowing players to stick with their preferred job choice and feel unique—is to balance everything out to the point of removing each job's uniqueness beyond aesthetics, ultimately defeating the purpose.

I can relate to this... ^^
I actually didnt Level anything that i didnt like.
Never ever forced on WHM in any Game like XI used to force me on WHM until i get rid of all Gear for it >_>
I'm like: If you want me. You should be ok with my Class (or Job... sometime :P),
I want to be the best i can be. On the Job i wish to play. So someone either accepts it or i don't join them~
End of Story
If anyone wants to tell me they are equally good on every Class/Job....
Chances are high that they suck on all of them XD
If some Events are not doable on certain Jobs~ Its most likely a community thing...

Proud to be Brd/Arc!
Just leveling some Jobs to a certain level for a skill...
I won't lie Mnk is kinda fun to me so i lvled that too lol

However! I love to be able to swich on my Crafters ....
to repiar ppl and such....

Yeah, I'm sorry man, but this game is built for people who want to do everything.

The problem you have has nothing to do with the Armoury System. Every job is effective in every Content.

Your problem is that you play with arrogant people who think they know better than everyone else.

i agree with this. you should be able to set your whm apart from other whm if you put effort into it. and it should not be possible to simply switch midway in a dungeon

In the case of FFXIV, i simply never joined a party as BLM, BRD, MNK or WAR. If that meant not doing content, thats just how it was. I have boss macros set up for PLD, WHM, and DRG. There really isnt enough room to set up good macros for all your Jobs, and good macro work makes you better at a Job in 1.0. It sped up skill usage and allwed easy chaining of abilities and/or weaponskills. Thats why some say someone that plays everything without a care really isnt the best they can be at any of them.

I admit I did not read the entire post, but let me see if I got the idea. Either you would rather it be more like FFXI style where you have to go to your mog hours to change jobs.. or more like WOW where you build ten million characters to play each job.

Let me say, id rather it be FFXI style honestly. BUT, to the complaint that your forced to change to meet team needs.. If it was WOW style where your character only is one job, it would be as simple as nobody every asking you to join their party :p. I also would rather play the job i like, but its either change, build your own party, or not get asked to a party at all.

But again, FFXI style, going back to your MOG house to change jobs is far better then changing on the fly in my opinion, but WOW style is STUPID.

Totally agree.

They should make it like XI where you can only change classes/jobs in the inn. There was a reason for it and it was exactly for this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanillaLatte

Totally agree.

They should make it like XI where you can only change classes/jobs in the inn. There was a reason for it and it was exactly for this.

---

They dont really need to do that, they just need to make it so you cant change inside the dungeon or instance. They already do it with Hamlet Defense.

I have every job leveled, but I'm far from geared well enough or competent enough to play every one of them. I'm kind of in a unique situation in that my LS has a shortage of tanks, which is my role of choice, so I usually get to go as one. This isn't the case for everyone though.

I feel the class stacking thing is a community issue. People look at whatever strat BG employs (my LS is guilty of this too) and adopt it. This isn't BG's fault or anything; they're employing the strategy that works best for them. It just seems many LS's take their strategy as law and that's what you have to do. To my dismay, this usually excludes people from being able to participate because they are in the same position as me in that they only have specific roles with the proper gear and knowledge to be played.

I realize the armory system was created to give flexibility, but I think something needs to be implemented, such as a class lock while in instanced content, so that people aren't expected to swap between several roles during an instance, and hopefully this would also encourage less class stacking so that people can come on whatever class they want to play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Sure, little Jimmy can change to Paladin. This may even make your group feel good about your setup. But without experience, without feeling the job regularly, your group is gonna fail the moment Jimmy gets splattered to on the wall by Coincounter.

---

Yes, but most people don't seem to understand that just because you have the class doesn't mean you are proficient with it. They expect you to be able to play it, and if you say you can't, they are just baffled. I covered this in my main post.

Furthermore, to be perfectly honest, the skill ceiling on playing the classes right now is really low. It's not very difficult at all. Along with that, job AF is really faceroll easy to get, and that alone is enough to do the majority of existing content.

Quote:

---

Your problem is that you play with arrogant people who think they know better than everyone else.

---

Nearly every random party I joined up with? :)

Quote:

---

This isn't the armoury system's fault. It's the playerbase's fault. Don't go picking at SE for what the community themselves have limited on their own.

---

Like I've said time and time again, the community forms these tendencies due to the system that SE designed. If you want more details on this statement, feel free to read the many other times I explained it.

Quote:

---

MNK may be "optimal" for the fight if everyone can play MNK at peak efficiency, but if you do 100 DPS on MNK and 115 DPS on DRG....why go with the "Optimal" setup when you'll do better allowing that person to go DRG?

---

You'd have to convince parties to understand that fact, and your statement completely varies depending on the fight. If your party really needed a MNK for controlling golems during The Raven, Nevermore, then a DRG isn't going to solve that for you. The problem is people aren't willing to accept the deviation from the main strategy, because they don't want to take the time to understand why they need that certain optimal class and what the pros and cons are for switching it to something else; they'd rather just get the optimal, especially due to the fact its so easy to find it (anyone can just class switch to it).

As much as I loved the Amory System and wish it to come back so the Job System to just go away.... Really I HATE the job system in this game btw. I know that isn't going to happen, the Job system is here to stay, and as things goes it looks more and more likely that Classes DoW and DOM are going to be made more obsolete. My main reason for hating it so much is cause the game is going to feel more like a clone of FFXI, but the Armory System gave it some hope, but it was developed right and in order for it to really work again the Game needs to have Physical Levels back. The Point Allotment makes no sense without the Physical Levels and the Jobs too make it kind of useless to have a Point System when each Job needs to have certain stats in order for it to work effectively.

So it saddens me to say it the only real use of the Classes is that sort of base element needed to obtain the Jobs. Sighs... I miss the Old Thaumaturgy... the Job System butchered it so badly....

Quote:

---

The Point Allotment makes no sense without the Physical Levels and the Jobs too make it kind of useless to have a Point System when each Job needs to have certain stats in order for it to work effectively.

So it saddens me to say it the only real use of the Classes is that sort of base element needed to obtain the Jobs. Sighs... I miss the Old Thaumaturgy... the Job System butchered it so badly....

---

Yeah, point allotment is dumb in my opinion. It's extremely limited and every class has 2 main stats that they need, so just pump them into those two stats. I guess it's nice for those people that want to be different.

There's still use in classes, but it really does depend on the class. With the large rebalancing coming in 2.0, who knows what will be good and what won't. For your example, Thaumaturge was often preferred over Black Mage because of Sacred Prism + Sanguine Rite... and a lot of people didn't want to play Black Mage due to the lack of White Magic (Raise, Cure).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

Yeah, point allotment is dumb in my opinion. It's extremely limited and every class has 2 main stats that they need, so just pump them into those two stats. I guess it's nice for those people that want to be different.

There's still use in classes, but it really does depend on the class. With the large rebalancing coming in 2.0, who knows what will be good and what won't. For your example, Thaumaturge was often preferred over Black Mage because of Sacred Prism + Sanguine Rite... and a lot of people didn't want to play Black Mage due to the lack of White Magic (Raise, Cure).

---

Or because they butcherd black magic to the point of mindless playability...... O a single target - Thunder. O 3 targets - Fire. /drool z z z z z

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

Or because they butcherd black magic to the point of mindless playability...... O a single target - Thunder. O 3 targets - Fire. /drool z z z z z

---

Thaumaturge is black magic so I don't know what relevance this holds to my post.

They already said they're adding new spells, which hopefully will mix up the rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

Thaumaturge is black magic so I don't know what relevance this holds to my post.

They already said they're adding new spells, which hopefully will mix up the rotation.

---

Well then same for THM, i just didnt bold that part because it didnt match the 'didnt want to play it'.

And sure they are adding new/old spells in ARR, but that doesnt erase the fact that they butchered the 1.0 Black mage needlessly.

I would bet all my gil that if there was no power leveling and it was still a challenge to reach 50 on a job then you (OP) wouldn't feel the way you do about your job and its uniqueness because there would be tons of players who still only had a few capped battle classes. If I did the math right, which I probably didn't - it took me 4 months to get my first 50, so on that pace with no breaks from the game I would still only be 6/7 on battle classes TODAY. Instead, across 2 characters I have a total of 9 battle classes capped and that's with taking breaks from FF to play Rift, SWTOR, Tera, TSW and GW2. As I've said before, Power Leveling and the massive increase in EXP gains that were patched (I know PL wasn't purposely added -- or was it? *conspiracy theory* :O ) into the game destroyed a lot of what the original armory system gave us.

EDIT: To be more clear on my point, I think the problem isn't that anyone can be your class too... I think its that its way too easy for anyone get your class to 50 as well.

1. Most of recent energy has been focused on ARR
2. They are implementing dyes so you can make your char more unique
3. AF armor isnt end all be all gear which you seem to confuse it with and REAL AF gear takes time to get and you know the devot class.
4. AS time goes by and more and more content is released that focus will be magnifed.
5. Play with nicer people build relationships with those around you or an mmo can be a lonely game.
6. Cant compare 11 and 14 really two different beasts ofc lvl99 vs lvl50 content margine is obviously different. 10yr/improved on vs 2/remaded so not even a full 2 yet.
7. Be excited for ARR sure its full of more suprises then you know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingolf

Whilst I'm 100% for being able to do everything one character, (Having one character through everything makes you so much more attached to them) I think there should be limitations on switching jobs and classes. In XI you had to go back to your mog house to change, so generally you would stick to one job for an event.

I would like a similar system here tbh. Maybe only be able to change at crystals?

---

Or SE can limit class change for instanced events like in Hamlet.
During hamlet you can't switch the weapon, different or same type.

I'm 50-50 on this issue. I understand the "swapping during dungeons" being an issue for most people (I think jobs should be locked at start) but I have to disagree on the pride/dedication. In FFXIV, it is fairly easy to be good in any jobs it has to offer compared to FFXI where you needed skills to be able to simply play the job correctly. Even mastering a job is easier than it was in FFXI. Based on that and being an old FFXI player, I have a hard time feeling proud or using the word dedication to master a job since I put more time and efforts doing the same in FFXI.

Also, the "jobs for certain events necessity" was there in FFXI also. RDM needed DRK sub to do a certain Dynamis (Chainspell+Stun), every DDs doing Nyzul needed to have NIN subs... Basically, it was the same. As for the random parties, they'll most certainly want to do "the" strategy because everyone knows it and it works best. Trying a new strategy with random people isn't really the best way to cimplete a dungeon. Trying new strategies should be done with a group of people you know.

Unless they completely change the gameplay, I don't think I'll ever feel the same pride in my main job as I did in FFXI or need to dedicate myself to a single job to master it. The level of effort needed is lower so the feeling of accomplishment is also lower.

Quote:

---

EDIT: To be more clear on my point, I think the problem isn't that anyone can be your class too... I think its that its way too easy for anyone get your class to 50 as well.

---

Class switching being so easy is a problem, but your point is true as well.

Quote:

---

2. They are implementing dyes so you can make your char more unique

---

I don't care about how I look. ;p Cool new armor is cool, but it's not the issue here.

Quote:

---

3. AF armor isnt end all be all gear which you seem to confuse it with and REAL AF gear takes time to get and you know the devot class.

---

At the moment, it pretty much was. You could get darklight/some alternatives like militia, but depending on your class, most of the time it was the best or VERY CLOSE to the best. I understand 2.0 will be different and I'm hoping it will be to that extent.

Quote:

---

5. Play with nicer people build relationships with those around you or an mmo can be a lonely game.

---

When I needed to do content, I ran with randoms. I had no friends that played the game, and the friends that I made in game already completed everything that I needed to do (sometimes they would help, but most of the time they were busy with their own thing, which I understand).

Quote:

---

7. Be excited for ARR sure its full of more suprises then you know.

---

I am excited, but I am also hoping that my main post is taken as feedback by SE for future design. This discussion has also been interesting.

Quote:

---

Even mastering a job is easier than it was in FFXI. Based on that and being an old FFXI player, I have a hard time feeling proud or using the word dedication to master a job since I put more time and efforts doing the same in FFXI.

Unless they completely change the gameplay, I don't think I'll ever feel the same pride in my main job as I did in FFXI or need to dedicate myself to a single job to master it. The level of effort needed is lower so the feeling of accomplishment is also lower.

---

Exactly, that's the problem.

Someone else posted PL to be a problem for dedication and I have to disagree because you never get a real feel of what the job is before you are high level. In FFXI, RDM was introduced to his real nature at lvl. 32 and started his real job at lvl.41... before that, it wasn't really enjoyable. In FFXIV, you don't get your 3rd weaponskills for combos or AoE Flash for GLA before lvl.40... I believe you can't dedicate yourself to a job before you have the right tools. You are dedicated to leveling before 40... that's all. Your dedication to a job comes after that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruisu

THAT IS THE FAULT OF THE PLAYERBASE. NOT THE DEVS. The devs made full aware of making content viable for all setups. Again, it's not ideal, and it's not gonna be the most efficient way of getting things done, but it's still possible to speed run with most setups. Some of us actually really like this system. So stop playing with bad/closed minded players if that's the case.

---

I'm still on the fence on the issue at hand, but I'd like to make one thing clear. It is not the dev team's fault that content is prohibitively restrictive, or that players expect their party members to be able to switch to any of 5 classes on the fly. It is, however, their responsibility.

Making a game is hard work; really, really hard work. A lot of things can fall through the cracks and be forgotten or lack polish. I am often the first to give developers a long leash for these types of things. But we cannot forget that this is their game. If there is a problem, something that is causing many players to feel antagonized, that is their responsibility, and they should be held accountable for it.

the armory system is something i was very intrigued with and i wish they would've polished and improved it rather than clearly doing away with it without actually taking it out of the game. i think it's pretty awesome that i can change to whatever i want, i mean... i've been through the ropes and learned these skills and become a master with this weapon so why can't i just whip it out and start doing work? it's totally realistic and just adds a nice element to the game. you shouldn't be mad at the armory system for the bad design of XIV 1.0's dungeons (and actual classes/jobs).

i want more freedom, not less. i want in-depth stat allocation too!