Seems like alot of people want this game to become Free 2 Play. >.>

wow.. that ...looks... kinda... nasty... (Picky eater)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinigamiKayla

I vote we send them Fish Tacos because who does not like Fish Tacos =3

---

I remember a guy in a different game that named his character that. The GMs forced him to change it because it might offend some players.

lol a guy named fish taco rofl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drazzan

I would rather not see FFXIV go free-to-play. I believe it would ruin what makes this game, and I'd probably end up quitting if it did. The reasons for this are quite simple, free to play games are by design, built around a microtransaction system and the idea of mass numbers of players whom don't care for the game (most of the time) and can just drop-in and drop-out with no need for social interaction. The microtransaction system can range from pay for vanity items, through to pay to win. Pay to Vanity is okay, but it tends to make all non-real life money purchased gear look boring in comparison.

I've been playing Guild Wars 2 since the release here in EU and I must say; while it is fun, most definitely fun, it has a microtransaction system. An example would be my Level 17 Norn; the gear that I got at 1, 5, 10 and 15 all look the same; this is what happens in Pay4Vanity; I know there is rare drops that look nice, but they are few and far between.

Even though Guild Wars 2 is fun it lacks something that Final Fantasy XIV has. When I often try to describe this, it never comes out properly.I think it's something to do with the aesthetics of Final Fantasy XIV, the attention to detail on equipment, the emphasis on emotions, the shouts, the social; in Guild Wars 2 even though I'm playing with friends and I occasionally get the "thx" for raising some randomer, the game feels very barren and lonely, the chat bar isn't even important to the player, the fact you can hide the chat window is testiment to this.

One thing I keep spotting in f2p games is the developers needs to keep on using static lightning that then isn't accepted by most of the objects in the game; (as they have their own lighting properties), this is what makes most of F2P games look aeshtetically similar; even GW2 has this problem, and looking at FFXIV: ARR; there was the picture of the twelve church that had the same issue, the spires were pre-lit and not accepting dynamic shadows or lighting, though I'm hoping this is just due to pre-alpha.

I'm not really sure what this post is, a rant? Maybe. But I don't want to see Final Fantasy XIV: ARR ever go free-to-play. Final Fantasy XI had a niche, very strong demographic and community and I want to see Final Fantasy XIV have the same strengths. We have a community currently and we do have our characters here and there, our shouts, even our own catchphrases so to speak; "Heck the Bed" anyone? I never see these sorts of familiarities and involvement in a free-to-play game, even a buy-to-play game.

tl;dr - Free-To-Play and Buy-To-Play lack polish, attention to detail and social interaction. They rely on a microtransaction system that by design wether vanity or progress purchases will make people who don't play feel distanced from the experience. FFXI survived, and FFXIV will too.

---

I know exactly what you mean about GW2, and I also have not been able to put to words why XIV is the better game. Thre's just something about this world, its attention to detail, that GW2 lacks entirely. It almost feels like XIV is presenting a face, an aesthetic,that truly gives you a feeling of being an adventurer in this world, whereas what GW2 presents is really just smoke and mirrors. Play for long enouh and you start seeing the seams.

I wish I could make people understand what I mean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rannie

lol a guy named fish taco rofl

---

I know, I know. I think it was on Anarchy Online. The GMs let him change his name to Axewound which is probably just as bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyres

GW2 is f2p and getting good reviews. just means a company will find a way to make the money in another way~

---

GW2 is not F2P. You have to buy it.

It also has a cash shop which is going to generate more revenue for them over time. They've simply replaced one revenue model (subs), with another (microtransactions).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Preypacer

GW2 is not F2P. You have to buy it.

It also has a cash shop which is going to generate more revenue for them over time. They've simply replaced one revenue model (subs), with another (microtransactions).

---

Technically AFTER you buy it its F2P, F2P and B2P are practically the same thing except B2P is You have to buy the box after that its free lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rubina

I remember a guy in a different game that named his character that. The GMs forced him to change it because it might offend some players.

---

God forbid we offend someone so perverted to think he's talking about girl parts.
In the meantime let's go brutally kill our enemies with deadly weapons and curse like sailors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Technically AFTER you buy it its F2P, F2P and B2P are practically the same thing except B2P is You have to buy the box after that its free lol.

---

Yes, but that's like saying every console game you get is free as well. Doesn't add up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rubina

I know, I know. I think it was on Anarchy Online. The GMs let him change his name to Axewound which is probably just as bad.

---

Nah even fish taco isn't that bad.... I was on a server in 11 with a guy called t-bagger and the gm's never made him change his name lol

The problem with 9/10 of F2P games is micro transactions, I like playing Star Trek Online which is now F2P while you get the whole game for free and buy things like extra ships of bridge officers, these things will allow me to enjoy the game a lot more, but I will need to throw down at least 3 times as much money as I pay on FFXIV. Another thing in F2P games is the lockboxes that drop from mobs all the time, then you buy keys from the cash shop this alone can see you paying over £100 for one seasonal event for the possibility of exclusive items/gear/whatever. This is the main reason why I don't want FFXIV to go F2P, £6.89/month or £15/month in cash shops, its a no brainer really, most F2P MMOs get you to pay a lot more than P2P MMOs in reality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by A5ko

Games like Planetside 2 are about to shake up how F2P MMO's are made. The engine that has been made for it is phenomenal and it's completely F2P. It blows engines like Frostbite out of the water.

Guild Wars 2 is only a stone's throw away from being F2P. It will be the future of MMO's, it doesn't mean the game won't lack polish. I mean compare GW2 to FFXIV. At it's release, i'd have assumed FFXIV was the F2P option.

---

WoW Cataclysm was the future of MMOs -- Rift was the future of MMOs, SWTOR was the future of MMOs, Tera was the future of MMOs, Diablo III was the future of MMOs -- (Insert MMO here) is the future of MMOs.

Nothing is the future of anything, MMOs will do what they want -- let's wait until the new car smell wears off from GW2 before we call it the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dawiichan

Yes, but that's like saying every console game you get is free as well. Doesn't add up.

---

I understand what you are saying but MMOs and Off-line games are two very different things :P. Off-line games you buy and play it forever for free after the purchase ( and Off-line games tend to have more to them then B2P/F2P MMOs). Online titles depends on how much a company is willing to put into an MMO that "needs" to continue gaining revenue on the game itself or else the game will shut down and you can't play that game "ever again".

Offline games- Play Forever
Online games- If failed it could shutdown and be lost forever in time and space :P. If Successful it be around for a long time.. but no MMO lasts forever, thus that is what makes MMOs and Offline games different.

Hell even offline games aren't exactly buy once play forever, thanks to people loving to waste money you have to continually buy basic things for your game known as DLC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

I honestly Don't get why people can't Sacrifice 2 Value meals at Mcdonalds/Burger King/ KFC whatever. I mean come on.. every time Something new goes up on FFXIV People say "F2P"? or "F2P or no play" idn why but nothing in this world is free even F2P, and some people say F2P gives Regular Updates just as a P2P would, Is that true?

Also, Isn't F2P games Generally have Crappy Graphics? ( Low Quality because its F2P?) Just something that's been bugging me lately and I'm not sure why people just want this kind of thing just because it has the word "Free" in it. >.>.

---

No.

http://youtu.be/ns-IIn-DG-c

I already saw Gameplay on GW2 on 1080p and it looks like Generic Graphics, to me nothing special about it. But Graphics is a subjective thing anyways, everyone will have a different opinion about it.

Listen to the audio. It gives great reasons why the p2p model is slowly starting to fail. Shunning a game because it doesn't have a subscription fee is very foolish. If you're truly getting $180 worth of gaming a year with a p2p MMO, then so be it.

I think a lot of the implications that f2p games are some how of a lower quality stems from the attempted justification of a subscription fee.

In XIVs defence, they've put out a lot of content over the last 2 years or so. I still don't think they've put out 4 expansion packs worth of content though.

F2P MMOs you wide up paying alot more than P2P, If you choose to stick with "free" then you probably won't get anywhere in almost any F2P MMO's. either that or it will take you a long time to reach max. Its just that when people here the word free they jump all over it and in their subconscious minds Its the best deal in the market, but when they start paying for stuff Is a F2P MMO worth 180 bucks worth of micro-transactions? Yet that's another subjective thing :P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyres

GW2 is f2p and getting good reviews. just means a company will find a way to make the money in another way~

---

@GW2
well it having good reviews i personally had not that much fun.

crappy standard story lore. crappy animations and graphics... no real group play.. well no... i stay with FF14 2.0. and play the FF universe and have real content that pushes group play... reviews are not all.
your own taste and preferations are most important for a MMO




@ F2P MMorpgs


My personally opinion is, that MMorpgs who turn f2p gave up being a game which is worth to pay for. i personally think that games still can be worth to pay for a monthly fee.

F2p games attracks an other clientele, which already dont want to pay any cent for a game just to play it. And its just my opinion... but for me games like AION, Lord of the Rings, AoC etc. are not enough "attractive" anymore even to play it in f2p status.

i imply less quality with f2p, i never played a f2p for long time.
and we see that even F2P's turn nowdays offline after an other (CityOfHeroes etc.) so not even f2p is a guarantee for a game to be alive forever. its the last chance for a game after the subscribers drop in a p2p model.


Games who gave up being worth to pay for.

and i have no problem to pay for -one- active MMO if that means that we get frequently patches, that i can play EVERY content without any restrictions, or having disadvantages against other players and having good customer support. that is not what i call fun. and seriously i pay 16 euro a month for my fitness studio although im not going there every day.. so i can pay 9,99 euro a month.. for a game which i can quit every month and where i think its worth to pay for. i have more fun with p2p MMO's than any other offline game. thats a fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

F2P MMOs you wide up paying alot more than P2P, If you choose to stick with "free" then you probably won't get anywhere in almost any F2P MMO's. either that or it will take you a long time to reach max. Its just that when people here the word free they jump all over it and in their subconscious minds Its the best deal in the market, but when they start paying for stuff Is a F2P MMO worth 180 bucks worth of micro-transactions? Yet that's another subjective thing :P.

---

Well actually, in most microtransaction (pay to win) based games, you wouldn't spent $180 yearly to reach the highest level and see everything. I don't agree with pay to win, but most f2p MMOs that are starting to emerge aren't pay to win.

Microtransactions are fine when they only offer cosmetics and services, especially when they are all obtainable in game (GW2 for example)

As for the lesser graphics, well XIV currently has the best MMO graphics out there, but that has lead partly to the failure of the game due to it not being accessible to a wider audience (and why they're scaling back in 2.0). Most MMOs could have higher graphics, pretty easily... XIV is a stark and poignant reminded on why this is a bad idea.

Free to play doesn't automatically mean "bad", and p2p doesn't automatically mean "good". It's more based on how they handle themselves. Both methods are fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingolf

Listen to the audio. It gives great reasons why the p2p model is slowly starting to fail. Shunning a game because it doesn't have a subscription fee is very foolish. If you're truly getting $180 worth of gaming a year with a p2p MMO, then so be it.

---

Well for about a majority of us we honestly don't have a problem with the P2P because it's really cheap for us. in matter in fact the p2p for ffxiv is pretty cheap also. As for mirco transactions in GW2, that shit is pay to win. Because it'll give you armor boosters, XP boosters, Guild boosters, and you can exchange gems (which you buy with RL money) for gold therefore you can basically pay for an expensive item in AH (once their AH is up lol).

ARR is relaunching and it is likely that there will be less people jumping in compared to last time. The best argument against P2P is that it leads to a reduced player base, possibly low enough to risk failure, allowing the game to be called a flop. Let's face it, there are better MMO's out there with more mainstream appeal. The P2P model is just too difficult to sustain in today's market.

My guess is that they will continue losing money on ARR, no matter how good the game might turn out. I hope I'm wrong, though. A realistic aim is to make it work with a reduced dedicated player base and few servers, because this game was designed for P2P and should remain that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

@GW2
well it having good reviews i personally had not that much fun.

crappy standard story lore. crappy animations and graphics... no real group play.. well no... i stay with FF14 2.0. and play the FF universe and have real content that pushes group play... reviews are not all.
your own taste and preferations are most important for a MMO

---

Let's see.

1. Crappy standard lore

What exactly makes it crappy? What exactly makes it standard? Do you actually know the lore of the Guild Wars universe? I don't claim to be an aficionado, but the lore and storyline are far from generic or standard. In fact a lot of people love the lore and universe.

2. Crappy animations

Oh really? What exactly makes them crappy? Would you prefer the animation lock of XIV or the floatyness that has been apparent in every 2.0 trailer? Maybe you want some ragdoll physics?

3. No real group play

Good luck in dungeons. Let's see how you solo that. Heaven forbid that we can actually help anyone out on the field and get rewarded for it. Why has making parties become the hallmark? Why not be able to help anyone anywhere? You need a party to get the more difficult content done.

And yeah, I love how group play is so important. Shouting for an event that you need a piece of gear from is really fun. I love that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neorei

Well for about a majority of us we honestly don't have a problem with the P2P because it's really cheap for us. in matter in fact the p2p for ffxiv is pretty cheap also. As for mirco transactions in GW2, that shit is pay to win. Because it'll give you armor boosters, XP boosters, Guild boosters, and you can exchange gems (which you buy with RL money) for gold therefore you can basically pay for an expensive item in AH (once their AH is up lol).

---

You mean GW2 doesn't have an AH atm???? Omg instafail (remind you of anything :P)

And pay to win games are all over XP booseters, lockboxes, gear, the best ships, the best addons, the best anything are in most cash shops, its how they make money a lot more people will buy a weapon that will do more damage, than a sexy subligar for a vanity slot.

F2P games end up shifting the cost of playing to the serious players of the game. Anyone not just playing really casually will end up shelling out 2-3xs the average monthly P2P sub fees to just stay competitive in the game. Imaging being in a serious endgame shell that requires you to pay $30-40 a month to be in it, because you need to stay on top of things. Sounds like bs but that is a p2w(f2p) mmo.

I would not care if it went F2P but only if there was a sub option where you get unlimited bonuses that F2P could buy. So more or less for the $9.99/month you get what would cost the average f2p person $30-40/month. Aka why would anyone choose f2p unless they are Demoing the game I do not know.

I do not get where f2p is the future... yea every mmo is going free to play... but also every mmo is failing hardcore since the launch of WoW because people keep copying a proven failed model (only WoW has succeeded in using it the other dozen or so have not). GW2 is the first serious mmo I seen that has started as F2P, and I hope that game is not the future of mmos or the genre is screwed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neorei

Well for about a majority of us we honestly don't have a problem with the P2P because it's really cheap for us. in matter in fact the p2p for ffxiv is pretty cheap also. As for mirco transactions in GW2, that shit is pay to win. Because it'll give you armor boosters, XP boosters, Guild boosters, and you can exchange gems (which you buy with RL money) for gold therefore you can basically pay for an expensive item in AH (once their AH is up lol).

---

All of these things can't be used in pvp.

So how exactly is it pay to win? You can also get these things from in game by converting gold to gems, or opening black lion chests.

Guild boosters just let you get services like guild banks (faster, it's all do-able with in game progress, and it's not hard at all) What do you define as pay to win? You have no advantage over anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsus

You mean GW2 doesn't have an AH atm???? Omg instafail (remind you of anything :P)

And pay to win games are all over XP booseters, lockboxes, gear, the best ships, the best addons, the best anything are in most cash shops, its how they make money a lot more people will buy a weapon that will do more damage, than a sexy subligar for a vanity slot.

---

It does have an AH, it's currently down for maintenance, but it goes up regularly.

Just in case anyone is really curious here is the gem store

Do you have any problem with anything they're offering?

I'll also remind you that you get roughly (at level 25) 1 silver piece from each event. There are hundreds of events constantly happening, and it probably roughly takes 5 minutes to complete one. (depending on the difficulty obviously)

You also get gold as a drop commonly. I would say that roughly, per hour you would make (at level 25) about 20 silver an hour.

20 silver translates into about 100 gems. (it fluctuates)

F2P games have to make money in a different way. So at the end there is no real difference between paying a fixed amount of money each month or spend money (and you don't even know how much) on a F2P for other things than subscription.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingolf

Let's see.

1. Crappy standard lore

What exactly makes it crappy? What exactly makes it standard? Do you actually know the lore of the Guild Wars universe? I don't claim to be an aficionado, but the lore and storyline are far from generic or standard. In fact a lot of people love the lore and universe.

---

Well it was something like "rescuing" the white deer (sylvari storyline), which was not that kind of special stories which we are used to get in a Final Fantasy. thats western standard to me. no?

the storyline which we experience now in the end is much more epic to me. some call it maybe kitchy.. i call it epic.

Quote:

---

2. Crappy animations

Oh really? What exactly makes them crappy? Would you prefer the animation lock of XIV or the floatyness that has been apparent in every 2.0 trailer? Maybe you want some ragdoll physics?

---

well the animations are just awful and unfluent. while in Final Fantasy the animations looking from time to time just really realistic... like it was made with motion capturing.. the animations in GW2 look just so not fluent.. and ugly.. like the spell effects, which are some kind of a joke compared to the trailers before.

the "geyser" looks just like a very very small water fontain etc.. compare the standard attacks from GW witht he WS that of a Monk or dragoon. there are just WORLDS in between, WORLDS. even in 2.0.

and on the other side i think you really cant compare it.. GW2 just has a complete different art style which goes more into the stylized direction.

Quote:

---

3. No real group play

Good luck in dungeons. Let's see how you solo that. Heaven forbid that we can actually help anyone out on the field and get rewarded for it. Why has making parties become the hallmark? Why not be able to help anyone anywhere? You need a party to get the more difficult content done.

And yeah, I love how group play is so important. Shouting for an event that you need a piece of gear from is really fun. I love that.

---

oh come on.. you cant be serious... do you mean thousand of anonymous groups in GW2 when playing public quests like in warhammer or rift? (which wasnt any new to me by the way, because of playing WAR etc.)

and dungeons in GW2 are more endgame content than low and mid level content.. while in FF you played in a group almost from the beginning on. which i havent seen for long time in the MMorpg genre where you almost grinded through solo quests.

well we'll have to see how 2.0. is going to be. but it promises also group quests and leveling through content like low level dungeon instances.


i dont say that you cant have fun in GW2. go ahead.. but dont say that i should have fun with it, too because the reviews are so "good".. no, its not my kind of game after playing the betas... seriously. its just a media hype for me.

I honestly don't think the people complaining about free to play know anything about it... let alone ever tried it. When people make such grand generalizations like "F2P always means bad graphics" and "all F2P becomes Play 2 Win" you know these people are talking thru their back sides.

I'm going to put on my skeptical tin hat and call the OP out on this "alot of people" wanting XIV to be free to play. "Alot" is such a broad range and it's not representative of this community as you can see with all the replies on this thread. I need solid proof that people want a F2P XIV.

Another proof of XIV not going to F2P anytime soon is what everyone is seeing right now. SE changing direction, admitting the failure and re-designing the game from the ground up within 2 months after the first release are proof enough (to me) that F2P is far from SE's minds.

So in short, give me proof that "alot of people" want a XIV F2P because right now I'm not buying it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laraul

I honestly don't think the people complaining about free to play know anything about it... let alone ever tried it. When people make such grand generalizations like "F2P always means bad graphics" and "all F2P becomes Play 2 Win" you know these people are talking thru their back sides.

---

Sounds like you've only played mainstreams MMO or purposefully ignoring the fact if you take a look at any MMO portal you'll see one thing in common with pretty much every single one of the MMOs they'll offer.

Seriously, have you ever touched more than 1 F2P ever? I'm going with no since we're telling people they've never tried F2P MMOs before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laraul

I honestly don't think the people complaining about free to play know anything about it... let alone ever tried it. When people make such grand generalizations like "F2P always means bad graphics" and "all F2P becomes Play 2 Win" you know these people are talking thru their back sides.

---

and which F2P you are activley playing? People talk about f2p being so great, but what games of these f2p's are you actually really playing active?

i think we, who are paying for Final Fantasy XIV right now is a completely different clientele which plays for example "Lineage II truly free" now. maybe a big audience which is attracted to a F2P are teenagers who cant efford a p2p.. or what kind ever..
i am playing sometimes AION or L2... but its maybe... 2 hours a week or somethin? its more like "oh i am bored... i play that for some minutes, because it doesnt cost anything".

these games gave up being worth to pay for.. and you recognize this from time to time. well at least i have that impression and not such a big interest in it.. for no F2P which i actually know.
Neither AoC,LOTR,SWTOR,AION or whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amherst

No, it's more of wanting to actually be on an equal playing field. With P2P it's straightforward. You either feel you get your money's worth, or you don't and base your decision to keep playing or not on that. At the end of the day assuming everyone has only one sub they're all paying the same exact price. With F2P you have to factor in a lot of other things. Is there a playtime limit? Do you need to pay real cash for items? How about content limits? Gacha coins? When F2P is done "right" you don't feel as if you need to spend money to progress, but want to because what they're offering is appealing and not rammed down your throat.

But come on. Be honest; just how often are F2P models done "right"? I can't really speak for GW2 as I obviously haven't played it yet, but I've played several online games over the years and only really feel that one title has ever found a nice balance, that being Phantasy Star Online 2.

A F2P done right is just as fine as P2P done right. In that same way, a fine cut of meat can be prepared just as well as a professional chef as someone with no real formal training. It's possible, but it's really, really unlikely to happen. That's why so many people in general are opposed to the F2P model. It has much more potential to nickel and dime someone then actually turn out well, and if such poor practices become widespread, then it would be a real shame for the genre. Certainly not for the businesses, but definitely for the genre as a whole save for the people who had no intention of spending money on anything regardless of what it may be.

---

First, a request: If we're talking about F2P, can we not use GW2 as an example? GW2 is not free to play. Free means "you don't have to spend anything for it". You have to spend about $60 to play GW2. That is not free. That's why people call it Buy To Play; B2P with cash shop in GW2's case. It's actually considered a third revenue model.

That out of the way...

My problem with F2P MMOs with Cash Shops is that, out of necessity, the entire game must be designed around the idea of selling items. If the cash shop doesn't make money, the developers don't make money, the game gets shut down. That's understandable, however, I don't personally like that approach. I don't like the idea that every moment I'm logged in and playing, some aspect of the game I'm interacting with is, in some manner, deliberately tweaked to make my progress a bit slower, or a bit less convenient... all the while I'm seeing ads for "50% off!" for items designed specifically to by-pass or negate those speed bumps and inconveniences.

One of the best descriptions I've ever seen for cash shop MMOs was on another website's forums, and it was this:
"All one has to do is take a step back for a moment and notice all the pot-holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt".

That sums it up perfectly. The pot-holes are designed into the game deliberately, so more asphalt will sell on the cash shop.

A problem (as I see it) with the argument against F2P/Cash Shops is that people are often focusing on the wrong thing. When Cash Shops come up, the first thing many people go to is "pay to win items". It's a relevant concern, but it's not what should be the main focus, I think. Those high-ticket, uber-powerful items aren't the bread-and-butter items for these games. They're more of a deterrent to many people than a benefit, in fact. The items that make them the money on a consistent basis are the consumables. The items that people will buy, use up, buy again, use up, buy again, etc.

The entire game is balanced - or imbalanced, if you'd like - around the idea of selling as much of those items as possible. And they're often designed to go against what players demonstrate as being important to them.

It's pretty clear that leveling quickly is a priority for many players. So what do they do? They increase the xp curve. It starts off very subtle, and then increases over time so they can sell more xp potions. In the meantime, the efficacy of the ones that drop or are sold in-game (if they do at all) decreases, making the cash shop versions all the more cumpulsory - unless you want to spend a lot more time grinding. Of course, you can do that, but then you have to consume more of the next items...

HP and Mana pots. Early on they'll fall off mobs like candy from a pinata. They're easily purchasable in the stores, and do their job quite well. However, over time, they too lose their effectiveness. At some point, they simply aren't useful anymore, and yet the mobs just keep hitting harder and that MP pool keeps draining faster. But hey look! The cash shop has these neat and nifty HP and MP pots on sale! They're far better than anything you could possibly get in-game. Time to pull out the credit card!

So if they didn't get you on the xp potions, no big deal.. they'll just hook you with the HP/MP pots instead.

Ever notice how the F2Ps with the most restrictive inventory space seem to require you to carry around the most junk in terms of quest items, or objects that "have to be kept in your inventory to be effective", etc? Yeah. That's another way they do it.

Travel time seems too slow? Well, hey look at these nifty swift mounts you can purchase!

And so on.

And you know what? While I agree and believe that if someone's perfectly a-okay with that kind of payment model, then more power to them. It's not my place to say "no, you can't". It's your time, it's your money. Spend it how you want.

For my money, though, I'd much rather know that when I log into a game, every encounter I have has been reviewed and balanced to be do-able purely with the resources and items available to me in-game - no matter what my level is. I like to know that how well or poorly I do against mobs in terms of MP consumption or how fast my HP is depleting is entirely dependent on my approach to the game. I like to know that the designers, who ever and where ever they are, are putting their time and energy, and my subscription dollars, into creating content that is intended to engage and entertain me and make me want to keep playing and paying my subscription because I'm having fun. I want to feel like those designers and developers are working to earn my subscription money month after month.

On the other hand, the idea that pretty much every moment I'm logged in to a F2P/Cash Shop MMO - and more so as time goes on - some aspect of the game I'm interacting with - likely multiple aspects - is/are designed specifically to part me with my money as much as possible, just does not sit well with me at all.

I'd much rather know that my box and subscription dollar is going toward creating new ways to challenge, entertain and engage me, than that it's going toward finding new ways to "monetize me".

If SE ever went F2P and had a Cash Shop in this game, that's when I would say "adieu" and walk away. I'll put up with all that's gone on with them over the past couple years since launch. I would not put up with that.

Free to Play = Pay to Win

{Thank's for the offer, but I'll have to pass}

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mijin

Free to Play = Pay to Win

{Thank's for the offer, but I'll have to pass}

---

Are you retarded?

Guild wars 2 is not exactly free to play now is it? Free to play Means there is no up front cost to get into the game and play. and then the company monitizes the back end. Yes you can play Gw2 all you want for free, After you pony up and buy the game.

I have not experienced many big budget free to play mmo's. but the ones I have dabbled in have been a mixed bag of pretty darn decent to out right predatory cash grabs where power is up for sale. Though honestly the best one i can think of off hand is DDO.

It's interesting though when you get away from the whack-a-mole math magic style rpg's and visit the multiplayer online rage arenas.. er moba's or cruise over to first person shooty town. You see a lot of really good f2p systems you also see a bunch of sort of ok and a bunch of crappy ones.

Getting down to brass tacks on the subject. At the end of the day its just another model to recoup the cost of making said game and hopefully turn a profit. Hell we don't know whats in store for the future this game square may yet make a transition to a hybrid or full on f2p model. Done correctly every body is happy. People get a cool game to dick around in, People who dig it give the company money. And most importantly the guys working there asses off to make and maintain the blasted thing get to eat and have fancy things like electricy for there homes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingolf

Are you retarded?

---

If you play a lot of F2P MMOs you'll learn very quickly that in order to get ahead you will have to spend a lot of money on it -- This is the common theme of F2P, some deviate but it's silly to ignore this is actually true.