Why casual players don't 'just leave'

Hey! I'm a causal, I play the game and don't complain. This is just an expensive 3D chat room for me.

Login, check Island chores, alt tab, watch Netflix, leave in game notification on, alt tab back for A/S hunts. Every hour check retainers. Occasionally if I feel bored, I will go level up another job/DOL/DOH via custom delivery or beast tribes quests.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

Im a raider and i've already been unsubbed for 4 months since DT release

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Are you sure ? Because you need to be subbed to comment on the forums. After you unsub, you have 2 weeks to reply, after that you can no longer reply on any topic.
But I guess, since you're not a "casual" you have extended privileges.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...HIA/giphy.webp

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

Are you sure ? Because you need to be subbed to comment on the forums. After you unsub, you have 2 weeks to reply, after that you can no longer reply on any topic.
But I guess, since you're not a "casual" you have extended privileges.

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Dawntrail release was 6 months ago, they have been unsubbed for 4 of these 6 months.

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Originally Posted by Sigma5

The fun for casuals like myself is dungeon runs and hilarious stuff that happens in them and story content too, but all the people that talk trash have 4k hours or more, always. I'd consider those people vets. And after those 4k or more hours they still hate sprouts and are still paying a sub for some reason, and that's the thing that doesn't make sense.

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Some of my most memorable in fun moments in game is doing a dungeon, raid, or trial with majority sprouts or new to the content. I play Paladin often and I get to use all my support abilities to keep people going. I got varmiglianda (sp) and only me and the other tank knew the fight. We wiped 2 times but the other tank and me led the fight and coached the group on the mechanics. The 3rd time we succeeded and no one died. That is the stuff I live for. Nothing better than chaos and helping new people clear the content

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Dawntrail release was 6 months ago, they have been unsubbed for 4 of these 6 months.

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Guess my post went straight over your head.
You need to have an active subscription to post on the forums. If you are unsubbed for 4 months, you're not capable of posting on the forums. That post was made on jan 7 2025. So either the poster still has an active sub and was lying. I called him/her/it on the lie.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

Are you sure ? Because you need to be subbed to comment on the forums. After you unsub, you have 2 weeks to reply, after that you can no longer reply on any topic.
But I guess, since you're not a "casual" you have extended privileges.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...HIA/giphy.webp

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Did M4s day 2, few reclears to get bis, unsubbed, and I resubbed 3-4 days ago (my static started FRU early january)

and if you can see on my profile the big gap in message between now and september-october, go on

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Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

Hey! I'm a causal, I play the game and don't complain. This is just an expensive 3D chat room for me.

Login, check Island chores, alt tab, watch Netflix, leave in game notification on, alt tab back for A/S hunts. Every hour check retainers. Occasionally if I feel bored, I will go level up another job/DOL/DOH via custom delivery or beast tribes quests.

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that's good

but why so many casuals complain about having no content to do ?

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

that's good

but why so many casuals complain about having no content to do ?

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I think it's a result of the lack of new casual content, and the quality of what we do get like the pitiful DT society quests.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I think it's a result of the lack of new casual content, and the quality of what we do get like the pitiful DT society quests.

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Well I dont think it will ever change until you guys stop subbing when no content

If I was a casual, i'll only sub 1 month/expansion

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

• SWTOR: Maintenance mode.

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Swtor isn't on Maint, Broadsword are doing pretty well with Swtor and while sure it's nowhere near as popular or funded as it was it's still not in Maint Mode yet.

You want an example of an MMO in Maint Mode? Play something like GW1.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

Well I dont think it will ever change until you guys stop subbing when no content

If I was a casual, i'll only sub 1 month/expansion

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"casuals should stop subbing until they get what they want"
"if i was a casual i would sub ... "

I'll wait until you see it.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

"casuals should stop subbing until they get what they want"
"if i was a casual i would sub ... "

I'll wait until you see it.

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oh yeah 1 month sub is equal to 24-30 months

you're a joke

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

Which leads us to today. Let's take a look and see what other MMO games there are for these casuals to play?

• WoW: Has long since collapsed into a 'compete or die' black hole. Dubious past, future after TLT uncertain.

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No idea where you got that one from. Having recently played TWiW, it is probably the most casual friendly WoW has ever been.
I can jump into solo Delves any time I want and get normal raid level gear provided I have bountiful coffer keys (basically the weekly lockout system for delves), do a few solo delves at tier 8 and you get a piece of heroic raid level gear from the Vault next reset. You can even turn those items into tier set pieces with the catalyst.

As for the open world, that had a ton of stuff to do since Dragonflight.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

FFXIV is the only MMO game that fits these following critera:

1. Game is still receiving updates, and isn't actively being sunset.
2. Game has a substantial pool of people to interact with.
3. Game actually has an immersive world to engage with.

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The last time this game came even close to having an immersive world was ARR, and even that is a stretch.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

[/LIST]No idea where you got that one from. Having recently played TWiW, it is probably the most casual friendly WoW has ever been.
I can jump into solo Delves any time I want and get normal raid level gear provided I have bountiful coffer keys (basically the weekly lockout system for delves), do a few solo delves at tier 8 and you get a piece of heroic raid level gear from the Vault next reset. You can even turn those items into tier set pieces with the catalyst.

As for the open world, that had a ton of stuff to do since Dragonflight.



[/LIST]The last time this game came even close to having an immersive world was ARR, and even that is a stretch.

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Was more referring to the setting rather than the actual in-game open world, but I see where you're coming from.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

Was more referring to the setting rather than the actual in-game open world, but I see where you're coming from.

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I would agree with the immersive setting up until around Endwalker. Shadowbringers had the whole time travel AU thing going on and that was honestly already dodgy.
But Endwalker came in swinging with the comic relief rabbits to escape the end of the universe, the aether powered space ship, the "good primals", the end of days happening in a whopping two zones, the inifinite power of friendship, everything is and was actually just Ancients or Ascians... I could go on.

Needless to say that expansion killed my immersion.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

oh yeah 1 month sub is equal to 24-30 months

you're a joke

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And what you said is the punchline.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

And what you said is the punchline.

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Anyway thank you for paying for my content, hopefully yoshi will make more raider content and even less casual content, keep going

Somehow still have that ARR rise from the phoenix glasses on, but they're growing fainter by the minute these days. There are many things to still like, but I feel, for what I like, the game has been caught by a black hole and is just slowly slipping away. Hardly ever an improvement that really gets the blood flowing, except for the things I'd say already did that. Like yeah I think the graphics look good, yeah I think the updated zones look good, but I also /already/ thought the game looked good. So we're at like what 95% and went to 97%?

Meanwhile the thing that I have dearly wished improved, for.. years (am I crazy.. yes probably), definitely gets worse each year instead or done in a way that makes me think of this:

https://i.imgflip.com/9g7ja1.jpg

Seeing WoW to some extent take the major benefits of our job system, and smooth out edges, has made me give it a try, and it just solidifies the feeling that FFXIV is running on chigoe molts while WoW is grabbing the nearest mako and pumping it into the vein (again, not perfect- their recent patch had a hilarious number of bugs, but they were fixed and you can see the 'better path' is continuing in their future content too.. so if they don't squirrel off and keep their energy it doesn't look good to me for FFXIV). FFXIV will definitely not die, but it sucks to go from a long time player who is like "FFXIV is just better" to be like "Yeah it's alright, great graphics and music! But have you heard of the critically acclaimed game, WoW?". Whoever was instructed to play their competition back in ARR must have moved onto new games, that or they stuffed their ears, blindfolded themselves, or were hamstrung by budget / employee workforce constraints.

"What does FFXIV do better?" Imo, graphics, story, and music are still better. However I would say my memory of WoW being kind of meh looking isn't entirely accurate, the newer zones can be quite pretty and the zone design makes up for it (zone content is substantially better than FFXIV). The story is a little improved but the amount of it is like... 5 hours for the whole expansion lol.

Anyway, genuinely feel concerned about the long term direction this game continues to take when it comes to GAMEPLAY components. I'm never going to worry about the music or art. Yes, yes, I am aware of hroth hats or whatever, but its low on my list of concerns - like very low, except for I believe they should ensure all seasonal, all MSQ specific "capstone" rewards, and cashshop always work, the rest.. .do it when you can or whatever, it's probably going to look silly anyways lol. Like a Worgen with a hat, oof - I've been not hatting since release.


Someone(s) please wake up and get hungry :/

I think the real full Casuals are the biggest issue FFXIV are facing right now and they really should leave and dont get me wrong i dont mean it in a bad or mean way BUT listen to me im talking about the Casuals which doesnt want to take part in any real combat content, or crafting or farming content or anything, look i play MMOs for more then 15-17years now, i played from Metin2 to Rappelz, Flyff, Perfect World, Blade and Soul, Tera, Aion etc i played literally everything

In every game the Endgamecontent was always raids or bigger grinds or even crafting or farming what ever but it was content were people had to improve, learn a playstyle or anything you know, you had to do something for succes it wasnt "i want everything for free and dont wanna participate in content" and you had from hardcore player to casuals everything and everyone did the content but here in final its different

you have people which literally dont wanna do anything, i mean i get it if you dont wanna raid savage its fine there are still extremes or you can make millions with crafting, but there are people which really dont wanna do anything, no savage, no fates, no crafting, no farming, no grinding, no extremes, heck even dungeons are too hard for them but these people are complaining now there is no content for them,sorry to tell you but if even a dungeon is to hard for you, maybe mmos are not suited for you

and now there will be people starting with "but this people are the majority and they pay the game" but no they arent the majority, i guarantee you combine the savage raider, the casuals which atleast enjoy extremes add the ones which enjoy purely crafting etc and you will see that casuals which doesnt want to participate in any content are the minority

and i say it again i mean now only these kind of people who really dont wanna do anything like i said there are many many many casuals which do enjoy extremes or crafting or grinding

and i think final cant evolve because they created a bubble with people which doesnt want to participate in endgamecontent, never saw something in any mmo i played in the past

a game cant improve if hold back by the player.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

I think the real full Casuals are the biggest issue FFXIV are facing right now and they really should leave and dont get me wrong i dont mean it in a bad or mean way BUT listen to me im talking about the Casuals which doesnt want to take part in any real combat content, or crafting or farming content or anything, look i play MMOs for more then 15-17years now, i played from Metin2 to Rappelz, Flyff, Perfect World, Blade and Soul, Tera, Aion etc i played literally everything

In every game the Endgamecontent was always raids or bigger grinds or even crafting or farming what ever but it was content were people had to improve, learn a playstyle or anything you know, you had to do something for succes it wasnt "i want everything for free and dont wanna participate in content" and you had from hardcore player to casuals everything and everyone did the content but here in final its different

you have people which literally dont wanna do anything, i mean i get it if you dont wanna raid savage its fine there are still extremes or you can make millions with crafting, but there are people which really dont wanna do anything, no savage, no fates, no crafting, no farming, no grinding, no extremes, heck even dungeons are too hard for them but these people are complaining now there is no content for them,sorry to tell you but if even a dungeon is to hard for you, maybe mmos are not suited for you

and now there will be people starting with "but this people are the majority and they pay the game" but no they arent the majority, i guarantee you combine the savage raider, the casuals which atleast enjoy extremes add the ones which enjoy purely crafting etc and you will see that casuals which doesnt want to participate in any content are the minority

and i say it again i mean now only these kind of people who really dont wanna do anything like i said there are many many many casuals which do enjoy extremes or crafting or grinding

and i think final cant evolve because they created a bubble with people which doesnt want to participate in endgamecontent, never saw something in any mmo i played in the past

a game cant improve if hold back by the player.

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Honestly, whilst you're coming from a good place, I do actually disagree. A social atmosphere is just as much a staple of an MMO as to what the general content is, so I think it's fine if players want to treat it as a social hub of sorts. Granted, it is a problem for people wanting something from nothing, but this isn't really exclusive to the casuals, I have seen so many people, both casual and hardcore defend the shallow husk that is now the FFXIV crafting system. FFXIV is just in a weird place because bar relics, the developers don't actually know how to create long-form content which is a massive problem.

I do agree with you that casuals that treat it as a social hub probably are the minority, but honestly you could remove every single 1 of them right now and not much will improve, because the problem with the game isn't actually the player, it is the developers. Just look at the amount of pure distaste people have for the rigid patch cycle, for example, yet they have persisted to do this expansion-after-expansion, unrelenting, and it isn't the casuals that don't want to engage with the game that are the problem here. Look at the amount of feedback they are getting, and watch how much of it will just be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Honestly, whilst you're coming from a good place, I do actually disagree. A social atmosphere is just as much a staple of an MMO as to what the general content is, so I think it's fine if players want to treat it as a social hub of sorts. Granted, it is a problem for people wanting something from nothing, but this isn't really exclusive to the casuals, I have seen so many people, both casual and hardcore defend the shallow husk that is now the FFXIV crafting system. FFXIV is just in a weird place because bar relics, the developers don't actually know how to create long-form content which is a massive problem.

1/2

i do agree with you that casuals that treat it as a social hub probably are the minority, but honestly you could remove every single 1 of them right now and not much will improve, because the problem with the game isn't actually the player, it is the developers. Just look at the amount of pure distaste people have for the rigid patch cycle, for example, yet they have persisted to do this expansion-after-expansion, unrelenting, and it isn't the casuals that don't want to engage with the game that are the problem here. Look at the amount of feedback they are getting, and watch how much of it will just be ignored.

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I agree with you that they really need to change something about the Patch Cycle, this isnt working anymore, but they literally cant listen to all the Feedback, not because of lack of resources but more likely because of the lack of player actually wanting this changes, i give you a few example :

Lets start with Class Changes people here expecting changes or buffs or anything without looking much further into the details, or a minority wants to xyz back or wants to have xyz while the majority which isnt here in the forum doesnt want to xzy changes (its now only a example) and sorry this shouldnt be sound rude but most of the people complaining about xyz class changes are never touched any difficult content and you cant balance or change classed based on how they play in a dungeon, in every game so far i played balance and class changes was always based on endgame content where it matters, and i tell you a big big secret, people complain about fflogs because its illegal but like every company i guarantee you square is looking a lot into fflogs for balance issues

or the graphic update most people enjoy it, but then there are people which cry about "i cant idenfity anymore with my char so now i stop playing" if square would always listen to all that complains or anything the game wouldnt have a change to evolve not in the slightest and there are so much more going on.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Honestly, whilst you're coming from a good place, I do actually disagree. A social atmosphere is just as much a staple of an MMO as to what the general content is, so I think it's fine if players want to treat it as a social hub of sorts. Granted, it is a problem for people wanting something from nothing, but this isn't really exclusive to the casuals, I have seen so many people, both casual and hardcore defend the shallow husk that is now the FFXIV crafting system. FFXIV is just in a weird place because bar relics, the developers don't actually know how to create long-form content which is a massive problem.

I do agree with you that casuals that treat it as a social hub probably are the minority, but honestly you could remove every single 1 of them right now and not much will improve, because the problem with the game isn't actually the player, it is the developers. Just look at the amount of pure distaste people have for the rigid patch cycle, for example, yet they have persisted to do this expansion-after-expansion, unrelenting, and it isn't the casuals that don't want to engage with the game that are the problem here. Look at the amount of feedback they are getting, and watch how much of it will just be ignored.

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2/2
and its not like they didnt listen at all, 2 dye channel was something which was wished or better said better ways to dye glam, more space in the dresser more plates etc etc etc this was something which was granted, then the coming ingame raidplan is something great, with DT we getting now a new diadem, a new combat zone stuff people wished for, so yea they listen to feedback

the only thing what really needs to change is the patch cyclus so that the casual content gets a bit earlier on, someone said in a post earlier that they should release savage content and some casual content at the same time or atleast close to it and yea thats something i agree both sides should get something at the same time

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

2/2
and its not like they didnt listen at all, 2 dye channel was something which was wished or better said better ways to dye glam, more space in the dresser more plates etc etc etc this was something which was granted, then the coming ingame raidplan is something great, with DT we getting now a new diadem, a new combat zone stuff people wished for, so yea they listen to feedback

the only thing what really needs to change is the patch cyclus so that the casual content gets a bit earlier on, someone said in a post earlier that they should release savage content and some casual content at the same time or atleast close to it and yea thats something i agree both sides should get something at the same time

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I think they should be listening to, or at least acknowledging feedback which is gaining a lot of traction though, and actually giving a thoroughly thought out answer as to why they can or cannot implement the feedback, e.g., the whole healer situation "Go play Ultimate if you want an engaging experience". As for the class changes this isn't something exclusive to one side of the player base that is complaining. I would wager even some of the now bad implementations are as much as a result of people that do actually raid, as to what it is with people that barely touch combat content. I will say though, regardless of this, some complaints I do think have some merit, even from people that don't touch the harder content. Like, yeah, it should be balanced around difficult content, but I don't think this should warrant them nigh on completely forsaking fundamental balances around dungeons, whether that is through class design or through dungeon encounter design. Like, you can have a balanced system, that doesn't turn dungeons into a complete and utter sewage of content. Because at that point they aren't actually developing a well thought out game, but just introducing gameplay elements for the sake of hitting that quota.

Graphics update is probably one of the few feedback streams they actually handled well. People just needed an adjustment period, they recognized this and were still able to make appropriate changes. It's just a shame this balanced mentality can't be applied elsewhere, seemingly.

They listen to feedback largely insofar that it is something that can be adapted into their usual patch schedule, so of course they do listen to feedback, and there are examples of where they have. I just think in a lot of other areas as far as feedback goes, there's a gigantic room for improvement.

Patch cycle is a massive problem, and it is arguably one of the biggest, but there are still plenty of issues, and issues that have been a thing for a really long time.

All the criticism is to fuel a fire under the arse of SE and make the game better.

That sort of thing happens when regular feedback doesnt work and things dont change

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

I think the real full Casuals are the biggest issue FFXIV are facing right now and they really should leave and dont get me wrong i dont mean it in a bad or mean way BUT listen to me im talking about the Casuals which doesnt want to take part in any real combat content, or crafting or farming content or anything, look i play MMOs for more then 15-17years now, i played from Metin2 to Rappelz, Flyff, Perfect World, Blade and Soul, Tera, Aion etc i played literally everything

In every game the Endgamecontent was always raids or bigger grinds or even crafting or farming what ever but it was content were people had to improve, learn a playstyle or anything you know, you had to do something for succes it wasnt "i want everything for free and dont wanna participate in content" and you had from hardcore player to casuals everything and everyone did the content but here in final its different

you have people which literally dont wanna do anything, i mean i get it if you dont wanna raid savage its fine there are still extremes or you can make millions with crafting, but there are people which really dont wanna do anything, no savage, no fates, no crafting, no farming, no grinding, no extremes, heck even dungeons are too hard for them but these people are complaining now there is no content for them,sorry to tell you but if even a dungeon is to hard for you, maybe mmos are not suited for you

and now there will be people starting with "but this people are the majority and they pay the game" but no they arent the majority, i guarantee you combine the savage raider, the casuals which atleast enjoy extremes add the ones which enjoy purely crafting etc and you will see that casuals which doesnt want to participate in any content are the minority

and i say it again i mean now only these kind of people who really dont wanna do anything like i said there are many many many casuals which do enjoy extremes or crafting or grinding

and i think final cant evolve because they created a bubble with people which doesnt want to participate in endgamecontent, never saw something in any mmo i played in the past

a game cant improve if hold back by the player.

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i'll talk from my own experience but i became what ppl would call casual (even if i did raid savage, farmed ex, even sold runs/kills back in the day) for good reasons : rewards sucks a**, you can throw me any mount you want i'll never use them 95% of the time. gearing is one of the worst in the mmo genre, taking hours and hours of my time on savage to get a gear that'll get instantly replaced by crafted on next set of raid is a dumb game design. sub stats are in a state where it's boring as hell (you litterally have only 2 good substats all other ones have so little impact that it's stupid). i'll admit that after 10 year maybe i grew tired and as i'm older not having as much time to spare but to me any player should be able to play as much as he want and make its char progress (and NO, glamour and collection aren't progress, we are in a rpg) and if casual player complain then accept it or f*** off if you aren't ok with the idea of someone who spend time being stronger than you in a video game.

ngl ppl don't want to interact with content because said content bring nothing and being a hamster in a wheel for 10 years, some ppl will be ok with it but some ppl won't.
imo SE mistakes are : putting a normal mode for raids (sorry but it was stupid or even putting gear that outstand previous savage in normal mode was because the first complaint was "blablabla bahamut too hard can't have the story" so that mean story should be the only reward there), a lazy/stupid game design everywhere (from gearing to open world to limited jobs) and catering to a population that would rather play barbie online than playing a game.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

i'll talk fomr my own experience but i became what ppl would call casual (even if i did raid savage, farmed ex, even sold runs/kills back in the day) for good reasons : rewards sucks a**, you can throw me any mount you want i'll never use them 95% of the time. gearing is one of the worst in the mmo genre, taking hours and hours of my time on savage to get a gear that'll get instantly replaced by crafted on next set of raid is a dumb game design.

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Raiders could fix this problem by refusing to engage with the current raid tier until the subsequent crafting gear was available.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

All the criticism is to fuel a fire under the arse of SE and make the game better.

That sort of thing happens when regular feedback doesnt work and things dont change

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If they're still getting money, they probably won't see a problem. Willing to make a change until you have to do more than yap about it, I guess?

It is the same reasons why them so called 'elite' players wont leave either... hope and worse a false hope... and dead promises from the FFXIV team, which probably has fired too much staff anyway.

Stop making up excuses?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

"What does FFXIV do better?" Imo, graphics, story, and music are still better. However I would say my memory of WoW being kind of meh looking isn't entirely accurate, the newer zones can be quite pretty and the zone design makes up for it (zone content is substantially better than FFXIV).

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The older zones, too. FFXIV does not, nor has it ever compared to WoW in terms of zone aesthetic, design, environmental storytelling, or activities. WoW was graphically rougher at one point, but that point was a very, very long time ago and its art team has always knocked it out of the park.