Level Sync feels worse every expansion

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

You can work out an effective HPS/DPS for any given level and then take the ratio of that value against the level cap value. Using that you'll instantly equalize long term sustained healing/damage between any two levels. What is left unmatched is burst, but leveling was never tightly tuned in the first place. You will encounter players with outdated gear, players lacking skills because of level or not doing job quests, and players with different amounts of experience. In the end it doesn't matter very much that we'll have a wide range of ability between different levels of the same class, because that's already the case.

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Yeah pretty much. I'm so unconcerned with higher-level players bringing in their abilities. As you say, players already come in WILDLY varying skill levels, some who aren't even pressing the buttons they're given. The content is literally made for people like that so it's hard for me to not just want it to be a more enjoyable experience syncing to it.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

tell me how you would make a warrior with bloodwhetting scale down to be equal to a warrior without it.

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You don't, but tbh that's really not an issue to me.

Level sync feels really bad on viper. I know reaper and other newer jobs have the same issues but it just feels so dumb. One of the worste is the 40s dungeons like stone vigil. I can keep my attack buff up with aoe but I have to single target to get my speed buff....why? It's just pointless and clunky. The other thing i don't understand about lower level syncing is CBU3 is determined to have combos in this game yet you'll have to run an entire dungeon pressing 2 buttons.

I think if a player is lvl100 and still goes a lvl 20 dungeon or something really low, he should be allowed to use a few more skills of his whole set. Similar to how crossskills worked previously. In lower dungeons you were able to use like 3 out of 10 crossskills. In max level dungeon you were able to use all.
Just another category in the action menu 'synced' where you can select them. Let's say he is allowed to use 3 more abilities in sastasha, but each fit a certain category like offensive, defensive or support - so players are prohibited from just using 3 damage abilities for the lowest dungeons. This would have to be on a job to job basis, which one are allowed specifically for synced - as some wont make sense.

Dungeons itself are however already too easy. And this on SE.... I think the player damage output is less relevant, when the damage received is already so low, it will never put you in any trouble....
They can probably increase damage taken by 100% in most low level dungeons and it would be just fine.

Maybe upon entering the dungeon, players being able to set dungeon modification, that make the dungeon more difficult when starting it (damage, healing, HP, amount of mobs, random mobs, no sprint, random cc etc. - modifier) - while at the same time unlocking 1 more slot in the synced category for each detrimental dungeon effect picked.

but they will probably never do something like that, because it would break their trusts and squadrons scripting

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Maybe upon entering the dungeon, players being able to set dungeon modification, that make the dungeon more difficult when starting it (damage, healing, HP, amount of mobs, random mobs, no sprint, random cc etc. - modifier) - while at the same time unlocking 1 more slot in the synced category for each detrimental dungeon effect picked.

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Also another problem is that would cause a lot of friction within the community due to disagreements.

Like let's say you need unanimous agreement to set the modifiers, then it would never go through, most players are there from roulettes which already have scaling rewards, so increasing the difficulty, and thus making the dungeon take longer, would not sit well with many people, do remember that there are people who intentionally never unlock additional Alliance Raids so that they always get CT to abuse how short it is, though I suppose there is a small argument for full premades.

Let's say it's a vote, akin to kicking, and you need half the party to agree for the modifiers to go through, you would likely get people leaving if things don't go their way, dungeon is unmodified? the one person who wanted to have their skills leaves, dungeon is modified? the people who wanted the quick and easy payout leave.

You can say this wouldn't be a gamebreaking issue, but it's something that could lead to many "feels bad" moments the devs would want to avoid, if there is a consistent thing about design in this game is wanting to remove as much friction as possible, not add things that would inevitably cause more friction.

I think it's fun to experience the jobs the way they were at the level when the content first released. It's like going on a trip down memory lane.

I play a healer though, so I don't have the muscle memory of a strict rotation to deal with in older content.

Still I just wanted to chime in to say that I like it the way it is, because it wouldn't make sense to me to be spamming Glare IV in Satasha.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Also another problem is that would cause a lot of friction within the community due to disagreements.

Like let's say you need unanimous agreement to set the modifiers, then it would never go through, most players are there from roulettes which already have scaling rewards, so increasing the difficulty, and thus making the dungeon take longer, would not sit well with many people, do remember that there are people who intentionally never unlock additional Alliance Raids so that they always get CT to abuse how short it is, though I suppose there is a small argument for full premades.

Let's say it's a vote, akin to kicking, and you need half the party to agree for the modifiers to go through, you would likely get people leaving if things don't go their way, dungeon is unmodified? the one person who wanted to have their skills leaves, dungeon is modified? the people who wanted the quick and easy payout leave.

You can say this wouldn't be a gamebreaking issue, but it's something that could lead to many "feels bad" moments the devs would want to avoid, if there is a consistent thing about design in this game is wanting to remove as much friction as possible, not add things that would inevitably cause more friction.

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Then call the roulette "Modified Leveling dungeon" roulette, and make the modifier random I guess (similar to the evil floors of potd). Give slightly better rewards on exp or gil as incentive. People can only do 1x leveling dungeon a day nevertheless, so it is up to them what they prefer. Classic or randomized.

(I would also like a mentor roulette for only ex trials, but I guess this could be abused for achievement purposes (e.g. people spamming garuda ex with 1 character queueing at 4am). I would still prefer them over boring long dungeons...)

Limiting people's job kit does nothing to enhance fun for new players at all. Although CB3 thinks it's does, it doesn't.

Rationing actions was initially done as a 'learning aid' for new players. For that it's valuable. But there is no need to give players any longer than 50 or level 60 at the VERY most before they have their full kit. Once upon a time they had their full kit by level 50 which included many many actions long since removed.

It is a fact that action rationing is why so many people like me don't know and can't be bothered to learn rotations at all for 14/16 of jobs. There is no point. It's futile. To really be useful it needs to be muscle memory. Muscle memory is impossible when different syncs keep forcing you to mutilate that muscle memory. This is the case even for mains.
Also it's impossible to keep track across 16 jobs of which actions appear and disappear when. When you combine this with how undemanding content is, it's easier to just learn a core of actions for each job and just ignore searching for when the others appear. Instance will be over soon and you won't see that 1 unique flavour of action combinations for another 3 months, and then you won't see it again after that either.

THIS IS ESPECIALLY THE CASE FOR HEALING. Stop making jobs, including healing, 'way' harder to MASTER. Then demand more of them.

It's a ridiculous irony that people who do a LOT of casual content have to contend with the handicap of sabotaging their opportunities to practice and master a job, in a way that people who have a lot of high end content to run, don't have to contend with or 'constantly' overcome.

To anyone who bemoans how 4-8 year casual veterans can be 'so' bad at their jobs... THIS IS 95% OF THE REASON WHY. And to a lot of you high end players, with your critical mentor roulette YouTube's (not you spider) you'd be worse at your jobs too if 97% of your practice was this counter productive nonsense.
You learn your rotation. Then you unlearn it next week. Then you learn it. Then you unlearn it next week. Then, 'meh', you just don't bother anymore... This never used to bother me, but I didn't realise that's had actually become my attitude, it was a gradual journey towards giving up.
"Final Fantasy XIV! Meh!"

CB3 it's like you just don't think sometimes. You don't want to provide casual, and then it's just literally endless needless barriers to high end, that have no to little counter benefit.

But it's not going to get better. Because CB3 don't do real change. If it's a bit broken , then get fixed it a bit. If it's 'badly' broken then it can't get fixed at all.
Great. Just great.

Oh yeah... also... THIS is why I gave up learning Pict at around level 65/70, and never bothered to even unlock viper. Its just so hard to learn jobs with this going on that you never master them. It's just... not fun. It's just another 2 jobs for me to be shit at. Which is unfun. How the fck an I ever supposed to learn Pict, if I keep getting keeper of the lake and LoA. Fck this.

Another reason why I have totally lost interest in 'jobs' and 'leveling' in FFXIV. Not a good state of affairs for an MMO or an RPG.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Then call the roulette "Modified Leveling dungeon" roulette, and make the modifier random I guess (similar to the evil floors of potd).

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A higher difficulty roulette might work. I'm not sure if I'd want to see randomized modifiers. The roulette might be at a fixed difficulty and the modifiers could be edited for unrestricted party. People do run MINE or atypical party compositions for fun so I can see the modifiers being used.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

It is a fact that action rationing is why so many people like me don't know and can't be bothered to learn rotations at all for 14/16 of jobs. There is no point. It's futile.

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Sync in combination with roulette is really bad for learning jobs. As you go higher and higher, it becomes less likely that even get to use your latest skills and you have to be ready for 10-20 different playstyles at random depending on how you get synced.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

I think it's fun to experience the jobs the way they were at the level when the content first released. It's like going on a trip down memory lane.

I play a healer though, so I don't have the muscle memory of a strict rotation to deal with in older content.

Still I just wanted to chime in to say that I like it the way it is, because it wouldn't make sense to me to be spamming Glare IV in Satasha.

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Jobs at 60 in 2015 were completely different from jobs synced to 60 in 2025. Something like SCH has probably lost 4 core rotational spells, most have had their upkeep buffs/debuffs completely removed, and plenty have had core mechanics revised multiple times or outright removed.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Jobs at 60 in 2015 were completely different from jobs synced to 60 in 2025. Something like SCH has probably lost 4 core rotational spells, most have had their upkeep buffs/debuffs completely removed, and plenty have had core mechanics revised multiple times or outright removed.

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They massacred that boy. Shadowflare dotspread was very satisfying as healer. Squadron NPCs are mocking you, they are still using those skills.

I also loved monk during heavensward. How you were so fast, that is was almost broken when you got a buffed arrow from your favorite ast and clipping GCDs...How you had to manage greased lightning stacks and TP. I was happy not having rate utility besides mantra, I didn't want raid buffs for a glorified burst window every 2 or 3min. Just letting it be a high single target damage dealer with positionals, a cool aura and tons of off globals to press at once.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Jobs at 60 in 2015 were completely different from jobs synced to 60 in 2025. Something like SCH has probably lost 4 core rotational spells, most have had their upkeep buffs/debuffs completely removed, and plenty have had core mechanics revised multiple times or outright removed.

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Hugely agree with this statement. Jobs are absolutely not the same synced now as they were on content release going all the way back to ARR. With every job rework or redesign, SE cobbles something together to make them "serviceable" in different levels. As others have reported, newly released jobs tend to feel even worse.

You'll never know what ARR was like until you're forced to Flash groups of mobs for hate and you had no AoE damage.

the only reason it feel worst as it goes it's because they keep gutting job to make them so simple it's braindead they removed so many skills that are still coded in the game! squadron have them and we should have kept them in my book and then get upgrade and stronger version as the expension want on with like one or two more skills

Leveling kits have had issues for years now, but it wasn't until ShB that I truly felt the pain of the buchered kits alongside said leveling kit placement.

DRK not having Stalwart Soul and Dark Missionary earlier really hurt the overall leveling experience when compared to GNB/WAR back in ShB. I know this was fixed later, but not matching the leveling kits on release was a terribad oversight
Blood Weapon not being the first skill you learn at 30 alongside Flood of Darkness makes the builder-spender feel awkward for those first 5 levels and it makes playing DRK a slog
this doesn't even include the lack of an early TBN (bring shadowskin back!) or fact that Oblation in its current iteration is a lv 20 skill at best.

SCH getting their Aetherflow/ED moved from lv 15 to lv 45 was a huge mistake, as the job is now lacking crucial damage and mana generation at those levels where it can only rely on Adloq and a non-targetable embrace
My girl Selene who carried me through ARR is gone but not forgotten, and switching between fairies depending on the content was another fun strategy point that we lost. everyone knows about Bane/Shadowflare at this point too


the criminally underused trait system could help fix the leveling kit issue. they already use it to transform our lower lvl skills into higher lv ones, but for some reason they refuse to expand on it and instead give us these "Melee Mastery" junk traits?
like why do we gain those "new" healer attacks like AST Oracle at lv 92 and not in the 30s or even 40s...but PLD gets their Goring Blade at lv 52? (this change was DOGWATER, give me my combos back!)
they could easily make all of those "melee/magic Mastery" traits redundant if they just let us build more resource or gave us our attacks at lower levels. maybe even return buffs to their former glory (i miss 20% Litany, made the long cooldown feel worth)


I could go further, but the point is that if the devs intend on making a "return to harder content"
then most, if not all jobs, NEED to have their kits re-evaluated and skills NEED to be redistributed

I really don’t get what problem square had with aetherdam

It was literally the easiest slam dunk of a trait that made low level SCH more interesting without doing literally anything on their part because it already existed

It’s like they actively try to make the low levels worse when they redo jobs

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Then don't do level sync content?

Roulettes are fine; there's more than enough people who want to do them even if you don't.

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Sorry that some people still care about the game and want it to be better instead of just quitting.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Jobs at 60 in 2015 were completely different from jobs synced to 60 in 2025. Something like SCH has probably lost 4 core rotational spells, most have had their upkeep buffs/debuffs completely removed, and plenty have had core mechanics revised multiple times or outright removed.

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Remember how you had 2 full hotbars at lvl35 back then? 3 at max level (60)?
Even sastasha had you with more tools than you currently get at lvl 30 those days.
And that's without even mentioning the old battle system, because MP and aggro was damn relevant in there too.

You gonna get ff14 mobile, you wont get more skills again. You probably get less.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Well, that can easily be mitigated. Just give synched players a debuff, a reverse echo if you will, that caps their maximum potency per GCD to the expected level of the current instance. Hells, give players an option if they want this type of sync or the current one.

Cause really, what do I care if Johnny Greensprout does the same DPS in Sastasha with 2 buttons as I do with 20? At least I can play my full kit and have fun with my class, and Johnny has something to look forward to.

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If I understand correctly what you're saying, I agree.

Perspective from someone here who never does roulettes:

I worked hard to earn my abilities, learn my rotations, etc., and hate walking in to see so many of them greyed out. It's like learning how to do architectural wonders Lego sets, and then being handed toddler red/blue/yellow wooden building blocks to work with.

If what you're saying is "Let us keep most or all of our actions, but just sync down the *effects* of said actions," YES. I wouldn't mind doing less damage, getting less heal-power, etc. to help balance out the dungeon and put me in range with the *effects* level of some player who's just hit high enough level to do that dungeon. Same for our gear, honestly. And I totally agree that people coming in and clearing it before the story/dialog can even play through, can really suck for a first-timer doing it: they miss a lot of the experience that way.

My other beef with roulettes: I'd like the ability to be able to block out certain dungeons/trials/raids, so I don't randomly end up in ones I hate doing. And/or maybe a way to "favorite" some, so we get them more often?

If they'd offer the above, I would start doing roulettes... at least in part because I like helping newer players working their way up.

Side note: could we get the cap on poetics to *raise* a bit at certain level markers? I get really tired of hitting it fast when doing things that rack them up, then having to run off to find a way to spend them rather than see "earned after the cap" ones vanish. Also, more things to *spend* them on would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Nana_Bear

If I understand correctly what you're saying, I agree.

Perspective from someone here who never does roulettes:

I worked hard to earn my abilities, learn my rotations, etc., and hate walking in to see so many of them greyed out. It's like learning how to do architectural wonders Lego sets, and then being handed toddler red/blue/yellow wooden building blocks to work with.

If what you're saying is "Let us keep most or all of our actions, but just sync down the *effects* of said actions," YES. I wouldn't mind doing less damage, getting less heal-power, etc. to help balance out the dungeon and put me in range with the *effects* level of some player who's just hit high enough level to do that dungeon. Same for our gear, honestly. And I totally agree that people coming in and clearing it before the story/dialog can even play through, can really suck for a first-timer doing it: they miss a lot of the experience that way.

My other beef with roulettes: I'd like the ability to be able to block out certain dungeons/trials/raids, so I don't randomly end up in ones I hate doing. And/or maybe a way to "favorite" some, so we get them more often?

If they'd offer the above, I would start doing roulettes... at least in part because I like helping newer players working their way up.

Side note: could we get the cap on poetics to *raise* a bit at certain level markers? I get really tired of hitting it fast when doing things that rack them up, then having to run off to find a way to spend them rather than see "earned after the cap" ones vanish. Also, more things to *spend* them on would be nice.

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I don't think a percentage-based "reverse Echo" like he suggested would be exactly right. I rather think that traits that hard cap your potencies depending on job and level cap is the correct way to go about it. Using PLD as an example, you simply can't bring 1000 potency Confiteor moves to lower dungeons. Here's a quick napkin example:


Lv70 cap
Atonement combo: capped at 260 potency (rough average of your basic 1-2-3 combo)
Confiteor combo: capped at 600 potency (to match the potency Holy Spirit would be at that level)

Lv60 cap
Atonement & Confiteor combo: both capped ~260 potency for the same reasons

With this, defensives would remain unchanged and it would not really factor in extra oGCDs you'd bring. That's why I'm a strong proponent of lowering item level caps in duties to restore some measure of difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

I don't think a percentage-based "reverse Echo" like he suggested would be exactly right. I rather think that traits that hard cap your potencies depending on job and level cap is the correct way to go about it. Using PLD as an example, you simply can't bring 1000 potency Confiteor moves to lower dungeons.

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Why not? With the correct multiplier it wouldn't matter what potency is at all. You can make the final damage number anything you want it to be.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Why not? With the correct multiplier it wouldn't matter what potency is at all. You can make the final damage number anything you want it to be.

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Because if you use a flat percentage that applies to everything and is designed to dampen your 60 or 120 second bursts, then your basic combo is going to end up being trash compared to anyone who isn't synced. It also may inadvertently target people who are just barely over level and don't have the abilities to make up for it. I just think traits for every 10 levels will also be better for future-proofing further expansion drops.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Because if you use a flat percentage that applies to everything and is designed to dampen your 60 or 120 second bursts, then your basic combo is going to end up being trash compared to anyone who isn't synced. It also may inadvertently target people who are just barely over level and don't have the abilities to make up for it. I just think traits for every 10 levels will also be better for future-proofing further expansion drops.

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If the aim is to bring down the average DPS to what's appropriate rather than cap maximum DPS I'd think this would be OK. Normal combo would be a little low on damage while bursts would be a little high. The percentage would also have to adjust for how large of a level gap exists, so anyone just over the sync point won't have a large changed applied.

If DPS curves must be flattened out, then potency adjustments make sense, though I feel like it would be more work to add and upkeep. Then again it's only going to be a major problem at really low levels anyway.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

I don't think a percentage-based "reverse Echo" like he suggested would be exactly right. I rather think that traits that hard cap your potencies depending on job and level cap is the correct way to go about it. Using PLD as an example, you simply can't bring 1000 potency Confiteor moves to lower dungeons. Here's a quick napkin example:


Lv70 cap
Atonement combo: capped at 260 potency (rough average of your basic 1-2-3 combo)
Confiteor combo: capped at 600 potency (to match the potency Holy Spirit would be at that level)

Lv60 cap
Atonement & Confiteor combo: both capped ~260 potency for the same reasons

With this, defensives would remain unchanged and it would not really factor in extra oGCDs you'd bring. That's why I'm a strong proponent of lowering item level caps in duties to restore some measure of difficulty.

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With how stupid defensives start getting at 82, they should also receive some kind of adjustment when synced. Healing potency at the very least should go down.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

With how stupid defensives start getting at 82, they should also receive some kind of adjustment when synced. Healing potency at the very least should go down.

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That's fine, I'm just less concerned about it because the content as it stands isn't dangerous. I'd like it to be, but it isn't.

you know having a full kit while synced would damage the game no matter what happen even if you lower the potency you are still breaking the game and most of you refuse to see that and do rather damage a sprout experience with massive burst over a decent experience.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

you know having a full kit while synced would damage the game no matter what happen even if you lower the potency you are still breaking the game and most of you refuse to see that and do rather damage a sprout experience with massive burst over a decent experience.

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Dungeons are literally nothing like what they were when they were current

Breaking them “more” to make them somewhat interesting at level 100 isn’t worse than how badly we currently break them with our pathetic sub 80 kits

We fill the sprouts queues there should be consideration the other way as well

I'd personally advocate for a combination of #1 and #2 in the OP. Getting ARR/HW stuffs from roulo sucks to me not because of the dungeons - in fact, I love some of them like Aurum and Pharos Sirius ARR. I hate them because all jobs that I can choose play except BLU are so barebone. And mind you, this doesn't affect only myself as the old player. Anecdotally speaking, I've got a couple of IRL friends (so new player exp) who I could never convince to play together after they cleared a lot of what Free Trial offers because they think the kits are an insult to players' intelligence for staying this barebone for over half of game's level. So yes, this makes me think that the barebone kits is also damaging some of the new player experiences.

As for tinge of #2, I'd like for them to add traits to each capstones (so lv51, 61, 71, and 81) that bumps the potencies for XYZ actions to match the expac's expected potencies. We already see this similarly done to the forgotten green coded role - SGE the most of all. You can see how much potencies their Dosis I changes from lv1 to lv70.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

you know having a full kit while synced would damage the game no matter what happen even if you lower the potency you are still breaking the game and most of you refuse to see that and do rather damage a sprout experience with massive burst over a decent experience.

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I remember my sprout experience. Not knowing what skills I was going to have in a dungeon was awful and having to swap out skills manually just to do FATEs was even worse. We're fortunate that the latter is gone and I think removing the former would be a great improvement for players trying to learn while leveling. As long as DPS and healing is capped to be level appropriate I don't see what kind of damage can be done.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Anecdotally speaking, I've got a couple of IRL friends (so new player exp) who I could never convince to play together after they cleared a lot of what Free Trial offers because they think the kits are an insult to players' intelligence for staying this barebone for over half of game's level. So yes, this makes me think that the barebone kits is also damaging some of the new player experiences.

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I've seen quite a few new players go for level skips in an attempt to make classes/leveling interesting. The simplicity of lowers level really does push some players away.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Dungeons are literally nothing like what they were when they were current

Breaking them “more” to make them somewhat interesting at level 100 isn’t worse than how badly we currently break them with our pathetic sub 80 kits

We fill the sprouts queues there should be consideration the other way as well

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the best way things could be done is giving all the skills as you LV up to 50 then you get the upgrade of the skills then it would give you all the thing but then they will have to rework the old content.


Do you que willingly? I do think you do so you kinda choose to do that because if you do a roulette and everyone is a sprout no matter what happen you want to melt everything faster. Also remind yourself this the sprout will see you all those massive skills and everything and will feel useless.


you pay a sub yes but you also play a multiplayer game so I am sorry but if you sync down you should lose all the skill to not discourage sprout player because if you choose to help someone sync down doing extreme no matter what they do you will always be better because you have the full kit while they don't.


Most people doesn't see the bigger picture and only what they desire yes it is annoying but it is for balance.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

I do think you do so you kinda choose to do that because if you do a roulette and everyone is a sprout no matter what happen you want to melt everything faster.

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It's not about being faster. It's about not falling asleep. Nothing will go faster if a level 100 is synced to do level 15 amounts of damage.

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Also remind yourself this the sprout will see you all those massive skills and everything and will feel useless.

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When I was new all the flashy effects of other players didn't mean anything to me. I had no idea what they were doing and I had no way of knowing how much I was contributing, so I don't feel like this will be a common experience.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

It's not about being faster. It's about not falling asleep. Nothing will go faster if a level 100 is synced to do level 15 amounts of damage.


When I was new all the flashy effects of other players didn't mean anything to me. I had no idea what they were doing and I had no way of knowing how much I was contributing, so I don't feel like this will be a common experience.

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you only see the roulette side thing extreme and everything else is afflicted by such but again people doesn't see the bigger picture

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

you only see the roulette side thing extreme and everything else is afflicted by such but again people doesn't see the bigger picture

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You're right, the better part of 80 levels should be exceedingly boring to preserve the integrity of synced extremes and savages from at least 6-8 years ago, even though most jobs have been completely redesigned since then.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

you know having a full kit while synced would damage the game no matter what happen even if you lower the potency you are still breaking the game and most of you refuse to see that and do rather damage a sprout experience with massive burst over a decent experience.

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People like me would be galvanized to keep going, seeing what other players can do instead of thinking the game really does stay as boring as all of 1-70.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

And mind you, this doesn't affect only myself as the old player. Anecdotally speaking, I've got a couple of IRL friends (so new player exp) who I could never convince to play together after they cleared a lot of what Free Trial offers because they think the kits are an insult to players' intelligence for staying this barebone for over half of game's level. So yes, this makes me think that the barebone kits is also damaging some of the new player experiences.

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This, a thousand times this.

The game straight up overlevels you as you do the MSQ and your roulettes. Getting new abilities and then having to immediately do your next dungeon synced without the ability to use it is frustrating design at this point. I think player/character growth should be kept and the syncing infrastructure should permit that.

what I think should happen is like the full skeleton of the rotation should be around LV 35 and 50 should have almost the full kit as expension goes on that's when you get the LV upgrade and the upgrade skills potency upgrade or like the link skills.yes it would be a pain to balance the early game but it would make everything more interesting older content and wouldn't please to 100% but would be better in general

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

what I think should happen is like the full skeleton of the rotation should be around LV 35 and 50 should have almost the full kit as expension goes on that's when you get the LV upgrade and the upgrade skills potency upgrade or like the link skills.yes it would be a pain to balance the early game but it would make everything more interesting older content and wouldn't please to 100% but would be better in general

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I mean that’s arguably what everyone at least wants

People don’t necessarily need PCT to have star prism at level 10 but it should at least broadly function as a fun job below level 92 and even have a shadow of it’s full design below 70 unlike now

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean that’s arguably what everyone at least wants

People don’t necessarily need PCT to have star prism at level 10 but it should at least broadly function as a fun job below level 92 and even have a shadow of it’s full design below 70 unlike now

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all job should be that like starting dungeon you shouldn't have full kit but at least the full combo since you aren't in your job yet but like there is no reason that you don't get all skills at like LV 20 when you are just in your class.

When you unlock a job you should get at least five more skills and cap LV 40 you have most the kit just no DPS or skill upgrade those should be lock on the expension you are on or like give some skills but with weaken potency like azise don't know if I type it right. But like the strongest version should be what we have but at LV 50 it could be a 100 DPS and 100 heal then in hw could be 200 for each and so on

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

all job should be that like starting dungeon you shouldn't have full kit but at least the full combo since you aren't in your job yet but like there is no reason that you don't get all skills at like LV 20 when you are just in your class.

When you unlock a job you should get at least five more skills and cap LV 40 you have most the kit just no DPS or skill upgrade those should be lock on the expension you are on or like give some skills but with weaken potency like azise don't know if I type it right. But like the strongest version should be what we have but at LV 50 it could be a 100 DPS and 100 heal then in hw could be 200 for each and so on

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It's the highest effort solution I think but yes, having the barebones kit by an early level would be a solution. At that point, just revamp the jobs entirely, which allegedly is said to be happening in 8.0? We don't really know for sure what that means yet. Please look forward to it 1.5 years from now.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

It's the highest effort solution I think but yes, having the barebones kit by an early level would be a solution. At that point, just revamp the jobs entirely, which allegedly is said to be happening in 8.0? We don't really know for sure what that means yet. Please look forward to it 1.5 years from now.

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honestly every numbers can be lowered point like all casting job have 10 000 yet the other Regen is 200 and lucid is 600 we could remove 2 0 without changing anything in the game. all potency could go down to remove the first number everything will be easier to actually balance and being able to well do better

Yet another discussion thread just dropped:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...ut_balance_in/

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Originally Posted by kaynide

My opinion, controversial as it may be:

Entire core rotation is set by 30. Not 50. 30. By 50 you have the sub abilities (so kenki gauge for Samurai), more weave, more utility (dash, stun, etc), and your “burn/spike dps” abilities.

Post 50, all that changes are more charges of given abilities, evolutions into new abilities (eg. aero to dia)

And that’s it. Don’t need new abilities, jus need to be able to use what we got more often. End goal could be that you have enough charges/weaves that your core rotation becomes a kind of “downtime” thing only or if you screwed something up.

By 50, you get No real

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Funny thing is that's how they've done it in the past cure > cure 2 > cure 3 or fire > fire 2 > fire 3. For some reason they started messing that up by making some of the tier spells aoe instead of adding cura, fira or curaga firaga, and given them their own triers. As with other skills they started changing certain skills changing into a different skill via traits they just need to expand it. Hopefully this happens when they do specializations next expansion.