So the Skirmish weapon can be melded.

Me: This guy is a smart DRK.
You: Not even close!
Me: Who is, then?
You: Um... no one! lololol

You're an idiot. But given your track record, that's not surprising.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagato

Me: This guy is a smart DRK.
You: lol
Me: Who are you referring to then? Name drop A? Name drop B?
You: lol, when did I say anyone was good

Beta posturing, attempt at passive aggressive demeaning statement based on false but portrayed knowledge of past statements

---

Oh. ftfy.

Why is no one talking about Enmity melds? Since WAR is primarily a tank class I would assume that every WAR would have a tanking set of gear. ENMITY+ is better than STR/ATT/VIT+ point for point in terms of maximizing enmity (from the testing I have seen). Therefore, I would conclude that A double/triple melded enmity+ Giants Axe would be the best WAR tanking weapon in the game. DD wise this would not apply..... but then again I dont remember the last time I pulled out my WAR to be a DD...... (unless maybe soloing)

Does anyone disagree?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TravisReed

Why is no one talking about Enmity melds? Since WAR is primarily a tank class I would assume that every WAR would have a tanking set of gear. ENMITY+ is better than STR/ATT/VIT+ point for point in terms of maximizing enmity (from the testing I have seen). Therefore, I would conclude that A double/triple melded enmity+ Giants Axe would be the best WAR tanking weapon in the game. DD wise this would not apply..... but then again I dont remember the last time I pulled out my WAR to be a DD...... (unless maybe soloing)

Does anyone disagree?

---

Yeah, I'd imagine that a good double enmity meld would be a great 2nd choice behind a relic, even with only tier IIIs. Due to the difficulty of obtaining a triple melded one, that's what I'm gonna go for first as far as a skirmish axe. Unfortunately though, I've only had one drop to me, which I blew the hell up only 5 minutes later. LOL

I do use a skirmish sword with a single tier IV on it on my PLD, it works just fine for tanking, so I don't see why a double melded axe would be any different for WAR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TravisReed

Why is no one talking about Enmity melds? Since WAR is primarily a tank class I would assume that every WAR would have a tanking set of gear. ENMITY+ is better than STR/ATT/VIT+ point for point in terms of maximizing enmity (from the testing I have seen). Therefore, I would conclude that A double/triple melded enmity+ Giants Axe would be the best WAR tanking weapon in the game. DD wise this would not apply..... but then again I dont remember the last time I pulled out my WAR to be a DD...... (unless maybe soloing)

Does anyone disagree?

---

It's been really debated for a while on the usefulness of Enmity. It does have it's uses, nobody is contesting that, however every +10 enmity is only a 1% increase in overall generation so heavily stacking it tends to sacrifice too much damage potential which could far outweigh the benefits of the Enmity boost so it comes down to balancing to gain the best of both worlds.

If one had to argue however, reaching the stat caps would still take priority because they offer you the greatest DPS boost and you tend to get more overall Enmity through damage for each STR and VIT point than you do per Enmity point until the capped is reached. From there it's a toss up between Atk., Crit. Rate, Crit. Atk., and Enmity, because the returns on those stats are more even with each other.

That's what has me at a stand-still in regards to my Skirmish Axe (finally got one). At first I thought adding more enmity to it would be good... but then I found out how much enmity is really generated. Sure, the effects build and stack over time, but as long as the WAR keeps landing Skull Sunder in his combo and using Flash/Voke/Rampart/Sentinel whenever they're available, there's no problem.

I realized this when I was tanking Garuda last night. Even though there were 3 decked out BLMs nuking her to kingdom come, me in my single-meld tank set was still able to hold the hate for the entire fight as long as my Skull Sunder kept landing (which it did with ACC food and a BRD song).

The +Enmity does help, though. +2-4% Enmity increase is better than 0%. My question is whether or not it's worth it compared to just adding STR/ATK to it depending on how your Max stats are. I know for a fact my VIT is fine, but my STR needs a boost.

And of course, I already have the Storm Lt Axe.

ARG! I'm just going to keep researching this and just keep fighting Garuda for that Axe. Too bad my teams seem to get killed during Phase 2/3 all the time. x.X

Damned Harpy.

mega-potions of STR rock, maybe try those? in addition to the STR boost they give you a ginormous 125 attack power, or something like that

I wish you added this axe to your research:

Rampager +1:

Damage: (176) HQ
------------------------- = 40.93 DPS
Delay: 4.3s

Strength +7, Vitality +7, (Attack Power +15) HQ

Could this weapon double melded be the best axe in the game? The other HQ 'base relic' weapons could be stronger too.

Great research guys :)

Yeah sure.

If people played Marauder

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dreamliner

I wish you added this axe to your research:

Rampager +1:

Damage: (176) HQ
------------------------- = 40.93 DPS
Delay: 4.3s

Strength +7, Vitality +7, (Attack Power +15) HQ

Could this weapon double melded be the best axe in the game? The other HQ 'base relic' weapons could be stronger too.

Great research guys :)

---

I did initially, it's one of the lowest scoring axes sadly, and can only be equipped on MRD.

Quote:

---

It's been really debated for a while on the usefulness of Enmity. It does have it's uses, nobody is contesting that, however every +10 enmity is only a 1% increase in overall generation so heavily stacking it tends to sacrifice too much damage potential which could far outweigh the benefits of the Enmity boost so it comes down to balancing to gain the best of both worlds.

If one had to argue however, reaching the stat caps would still take priority because they offer you the greatest DPS boost and you tend to get more overall Enmity through damage for each STR and VIT point than you do per Enmity point until the capped is reached. From there it's a toss up between Atk., Crit. Rate, Crit. Atk., and Enmity, because the returns on those stats are more even with each other.

---

The testing I have read/seen says differently. +1 point enmity = +0.1% enmity gain. On the other hand +1 AP or +1 STR or +1 VIT do not equal +.1% damage but actually less. Therefore +1 enmity is better than +1 STR or +1 VIT or +1 AP. If your at stat cap, which you should be, your really just comparing +1 enmity to +1 AP which I am sure enmity will be much better point for point.

I bet I could easily get about +45 enmity through melding on this skirmish weapon with a bit of effort which would be +4.5% enmity gain. So the real question is this.. Is there another weapon out there that will do +4.5% damage over a base skirmish weapon. With some testing you could answer this but I bet it will be NO, not even the Garuda's Axe would add that much total damage increase..... especially if your near stat cap and are strickly talking about the differences of DPS, ACC, and AP.

Meld it for me bro.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TravisReed

The testing I have read/seen says differently. +1 point enmity = +0.1% enmity gain. On the other hand +1 AP or +1 STR or +1 VIT do not equal +.1% damage but actually less. Therefore +1 enmity is better than +1 STR or +1 VIT or +1 AP. If your at stat cap, which you should be, your really just comparing +1 enmity to +1 AP which I am sure enmity will be much better point for point.

I bet I could easily get about +45 enmity through melding on this skirmish weapon with a bit of effort which would be +4.5% enmity gain. So the real question is this.. Is there another weapon out there that will do +4.5% damage over a base skirmish weapon. With some testing you could answer this but I bet it will be NO, not even the Garuda's Axe would add that much total damage increase..... especially if your near stat cap and are strickly talking about the differences of DPS, ACC, and AP.

---

The Rampager is on my sheet here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&output=html

As you can see, even with a huge triple meld of +85 attack power on a Rampager, it's on the low end as far as potential damage output. Nevermind the fact that by using it you miss out on some of the awesome abilities from WAR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagato

That's what has me at a stand-still in regards to my Skirmish Axe (finally got one). At first I thought adding more enmity to it would be good... but then I found out how much enmity is really generated. Sure, the effects build and stack over time, but as long as the WAR keeps landing Skull Sunder in his combo and using Flash/Voke/Rampart/Sentinel whenever they're available, there's no problem.

I realized this when I was tanking Garuda last night. Even though there were 3 decked out BLMs nuking her to kingdom come, me in my single-meld tank set was still able to hold the hate for the entire fight as long as my Skull Sunder kept landing (which it did with ACC food and a BRD song).

The +Enmity does help, though. +2-4% Enmity increase is better than 0%. My question is whether or not it's worth it compared to just adding STR/ATK to it depending on how your Max stats are. I know for a fact my VIT is fine, but my STR needs a boost.

And of course, I already have the Storm Lt Axe.

ARG! I'm just going to keep researching this and just keep fighting Garuda for that Axe. Too bad my teams seem to get killed during Phase 2/3 all the time. x.X

Damned Harpy.

---

No offense intended but I find it very unlikely that you were holding hate against the relentless onslaught of "3 decked out BLMs" with single melds and a Skirmish axe. Your idea of "decked out" may be different than mine.

WAR tanking and PLD tanking are two different animals and I think that's worth mentioning when talking about how worth it it is to use and stack enmity. When I tank on PLD (which I always use for Garuda and Chimera) I stack enmity. Triple meld belts, militia choker (or Explorer's for accuracy), stonewall earrings, and full heavy Darklight (I sometimes wear different legs and feet), Garuda sword (No Curtana yet) puts me at about +250 enmity and with that our quad-meld BLM can nuke relentlessly, putting up 40K damage in the Garuda fight and 15 minute CC runs. The only time he may have to hold off for a second is in the event Garuda teleport-trolls right before my second Spirits Within in phase#1. For PLD I stick with largely ignoring damage modifiers and go straight enmity and accuracy and have my doubts a PLD geared any other way would be able to hold hate against Legacy BLMs that aren't AFK.

I use WAR for most everything else in the game and here I only really have enmity from relic axe and sometimes (Coin & Miser) Heavy Darklight body. The rest of the gear I will go straight DD (STR well over cap, Attack, Accuracy) and this will be the set up I use for 90 second Coincounter kills (maybe quicker, don't watch clock anymore) and 2 minute Miser zergs (maybe quicker, don't watch clock anymore). In my experience WAR tanking it is never worthwhile to sacrifice the bulk of your damage for enmity+ unless perhaps the enmity piece is just obviously better than whatever you have (like choosing a tier III single meld over Heavy DL gauntlets?) or if other factors need be considered such as needing HP for 100-ton swing which I mitigate instead of dodge. With the +50 enmity I gain from Bravura I should probably start playing around with using DD body and head for Miser over Heavy Darklight body but old habits die hard and I've been too lazy to make new macros for LulAurum Vale.

TL;DR: While I'm not a number cruncher or rigorous stat tester...
PLD tanking = Prioritize enmity
WAR tanking = Prioritize DD stats w/ some exceptions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TravisReed

The testing I have read/seen says differently. +1 point enmity = +0.1% enmity gain. On the other hand +1 AP or +1 STR or +1 VIT do not equal +.1% damage but actually less. Therefore +1 enmity is better than +1 STR or +1 VIT or +1 AP. If your at stat cap, which you should be, your really just comparing +1 enmity to +1 AP which I am sure enmity will be much better point for point.

I bet I could easily get about +45 enmity through melding on this skirmish weapon with a bit of effort which would be +4.5% enmity gain. So the real question is this.. Is there another weapon out there that will do +4.5% damage over a base skirmish weapon. With some testing you could answer this but I bet it will be NO, not even the Garuda's Axe would add that much total damage increase..... especially if your near stat cap and are strickly talking about the differences of DPS, ACC, and AP.

---

What are the stats on the Skirmish weapon?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alastor_Moody

What are the stats on the Skirmish weapon?

---

every notable WAR weapon is on the spreadsheet I keep referencing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&output=html

DMG: 169
DPS: 39.3
ACC: 10
VIT: 5

I see the value in stacking enmity for Miser, only because if it does turn (rare) during your combos, you can fuck 6 people's damage output if doing a <17m run, or if you're a bit slower and low on time, fuck your speed run. I guess it's just worth noting that in situations where you aren't able to perform your other combos, enmity can be better.

However, it's worth noting that many slots are not worth trading out - eg, Militia Choker is okay for WAR but Enmity gauntlets are not worth using over triple meld STR gloves (as they alone will boost your damage and enmity more than anything in that slot) I guess an argument could be made for DPS gauntlets in some builds, but I think for most STR gloves are best.

On that same note though, if you're rocking a weak double on felt trousers, very often your AF legs will outperform them in tanking situations. Earring, Belt, and Bracelets are also easy swaps, so all told I end up ~+77-95STR, +45VIT, and +92enmity and that's minus Darklight. (For an enmity set) Potions can make up the rest accordingly and you can tank very well that way.

I can't imagine doing Garuda and skipping Phase2 in just AF/no enmity gear. I suppose you can combo her for extra hate/damage if you have no melee DD's, but that's making Superna really difficult with only BRDs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TravisReed

The testing I have read/seen says differently. +1 point enmity = +0.1% enmity gain. On the other hand +1 AP or +1 STR or +1 VIT do not equal +.1% damage but actually less. Therefore +1 enmity is better than +1 STR or +1 VIT or +1 AP. If your at stat cap, which you should be, your really just comparing +1 enmity to +1 AP which I am sure enmity will be much better point for point.

I bet I could easily get about +45 enmity through melding on this skirmish weapon with a bit of effort which would be +4.5% enmity gain. So the real question is this.. Is there another weapon out there that will do +4.5% damage over a base skirmish weapon. With some testing you could answer this but I bet it will be NO, not even the Garuda's Axe would add that much total damage increase..... especially if your near stat cap and are strickly talking about the differences of DPS, ACC, and AP.

---

Allow me to rephrase what I meant then. STR and VIT will give you the biggest boost to damage from any other source save for Job Abilities. Considering a grand majority of WAR's threat is generated from damage and most of the gains from +Enmity are based on the total amount of damage dealt, you need to cap the greatest source of damage potential to help ensure the best returns from Enmity. (IE: What good is +200 Enmity for the 20% Enmity gain if your overall damage falls 30%-40%)

Quote:

---

Allow me to rephrase what I meant then. STR and VIT will give you the biggest boost to damage from any other source save for Job Abilities. Considering a grand majority of WAR's threat is generated from damage and most of the gains from +Enmity are based on the total amount of damage dealt, you need to cap the greatest source of damage potential to help ensure the best returns from Enmity. (IE: What good is +200 Enmity for the 20% Enmity gain if your overall damage falls 30%-40%)

---

True dat! However, we are discussing weapons here. The debate was enmity generation between high DPS weapons vs an enmity melded skirmish weapon and hands down enmity melded will definately take the cake in total enmity.

Now...how much cake it actually takes depends on your total DPS.... the more DPS you already have the more cake it will take. The enmity gear I suggest for all warriors is melded Giantsgall Axe, melded Cobalt Plate Belt, Militia choker, Miltia Armet, Coral Armilla+1, and Stonewall Earrings (roughly enmity +160). All other gear slots you can use to hit STR and VIT cap which is easy with triple melded STR gloves. This is the best setup I have found for a tanking WAR NOT including darklight.

Garuda's Scream > Giantsgall War Axe

With the 1.47 more DPS than Giantsgall, you are looking at 5-7% more damage (not including capping the higher stat caps)

Then you also have the higher accuracy, and the extra Wind Damage, during AA. (Crit means nothing on bosses, cause it wont get you above the floor anyways)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Garuda's Scream > Giantsgall War Axe

With the 1.47 more DPS than Giantsgall, you are looking at 5-7% more damage (not including capping the higher stat caps)

Then you also have the higher accuracy, and the extra Wind Damage, during AA. (Crit means nothing on bosses, cause it wont get you above the floor anyways)

---

This is true, it also depends if you can hit the stat caps w/o the meld on the weapon too (which should be easy enough with WAR). For the sake of example take my PLD, I have the Lominsan Lieutenants Cutlass and a Giantsgall Longsword. The Cutlass is about 1 DPS higher and 13 less base damage than the Giantsgall and +30 Atk (5 Pieces), however I'm also short 17 STR and about 25 MND from the caps. However my Giantsgall has +17 STR and +5 MND on it and when equipped my DPS was still higher than my Cutlass despite the lower DPS.

So in a way the significance of the DPS and the power of the weapon can also depend on how obtainable the stat caps are for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

This is true, it also depends if you can hit the stat caps w/o the meld on the weapon too (which should be easy enough with WAR). For the sake of example take my PLD, I have the Lominsan Lieutenants Cutlass and a Giantsgall Longsword. The Cutlass is about 1 DPS higher and 13 less base damage than the Giantsgall and +30 Atk (5 Pieces), however I'm also short 17 STR and about 25 MND from the caps. However my Giantsgall has +17 STR and +5 MND on it and when equipped my DPS was still higher than my Cutlass despite the lower DPS.

So in a way the significance of the DPS and the power of the weapon can also depend on how obtainable the stat caps are for you.

---

This is what a parser is good for. There's theory, then there's reality. What weapon is best for any given person really depends on the rest of their gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TravisReed

True dat! However, we are discussing weapons here. The debate was enmity generation between high DPS weapons vs an enmity melded skirmish weapon and hands down enmity melded will definately take the cake in total enmity.

Now...how much cake it actually takes depends on your total DPS.... the more DPS you already have the more cake it will take. The enmity gear I suggest for all warriors is melded Giantsgall Axe, melded Cobalt Plate Belt, Militia choker, Miltia Armet, Coral Armilla+1, and Stonewall Earrings (roughly enmity +160). All other gear slots you can use to hit STR and VIT cap which is easy with triple melded STR gloves. This is the best setup I have found for a tanking WAR NOT including darklight.

---

My bad. My post was suppose to be in reply to this. ^

Garuda's Scream with the higher DPS does 5-7% more damage than Giantsgall War Axe.

So you will want to be adding 50-70 ENM+ to make it more effective, damage wise to build Enmity.

But since all skills are effected by ENM+, it's still a decent route to take.

Garuda's Scream + Hitting the higher stat caps would be 10+% extra damage so you would need 70+ Enmity on Giantsgall just to compete on average Enmity through damage and other skills.

Which is really only Provoke (30 Sec) Taunt (60 Sec) Flash(30 Sec)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

This is true, it also depends if you can hit the stat caps w/o the meld on the weapon too (which should be easy enough with WAR). For the sake of example take my PLD, I have the Lominsan Lieutenants Cutlass and a Giantsgall Longsword. The Cutlass is about 1 DPS higher and 13 less base damage than the Giantsgall and +30 Atk (5 Pieces), however I'm also short 17 STR and about 25 MND from the caps. However my Giantsgall has +17 STR and +5 MND on it and when equipped my DPS was still higher than my Cutlass despite the lower DPS.

So in a way the significance of the DPS and the power of the weapon can also depend on how obtainable the stat caps are for you.

---

While I agree with you for the most part, in your case, it's impossible for the Giantsgall Longsword to be better.

The potential of 17 STR and 5 MND is a total of 18 for WS and 3 for AA
The potential of 30 Atk is 11 for WS and 11 for AA

So they both have roughly the same stat potential for damage, but the LT Sword has higher DPS.
Because of the LT Sword having a lower delay, technically it's AA damage will be higher too.

Damage/Delay ='s DPS

You'd need to stack enough STR,MND or Atk to increase your damage another 5% for the Giantsgall Longsword to be better damage wise, but still -10 Acccuracy less.

On the bright side. You don't need Storm Gear to make the Giantsgall good. (5 Piece)