Reintroduce Maat in 2.0

If they can find a reason to put Cid in all their games, finding one to get Maat to Mister Miyagi your sorry asses shouldn't be difficult at all.

The perspective SE seems to be taking with FFXIV is to be a little more flexible with your jobs; your character isn't defined by your main. Maat was a job-specific fight that you had to do one time, so I don't see SE implementing him unless they made him the same fight for everyone, and even then, it would be impossible to balance it so each job could solo him. And what about DoL/DoH? Do they have their own Maat?

In terms of limit breaks in general... Does anyone remember them in FFXI back in the day when the level cap was 65/75 and it was rare to see a capped player? It was such a pain in the ass to get a group together. I remember running around Xarcabard with an alliance of level 55s and a few 70s trying to kill the NMs. I also remember running through Castle Oztroja and barely missing the torch to open the door. Shit like that just isn't fun anymore when it's every 5 levels, and with the casual nature of FFXIV, it would only be an inconvenience. There are people who still have to disband from FFXI parties because they don't have the 95 fight done, and it's annoying for everyone.

Instead of copying a tired and unwanted concept from a 10 year old game, I'd rather SE concentrate on giving us new content!

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yep, I mean FFXIV is FFIII so it's perfectly ok to have a Crystal Tower. FFXIV is also FFVI so it's perfectly ok to add in exact replicas of Magitek they utilized. FFXIV is also FFVI that it's perfectly ok to have Typhoon floating around with no doubt Ultros soon to follow. FFXIV is also FFVII that we not only got Materia but we're also getting the Golden Saucer.

...Oh FFXIV isn't those games either o.O

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Your getting the FF14 version of those things. Its not like when you enter the crystal tower its gonna switch you over to pixels and spit an Nintendo controler at you from the Rom drive....

Places/person/names etc from past FF games are great. In this thread you seem to be asking the entirety of "Maat" Down to the system, concept, aesthetic and mechanics.

It seems quite disingenuous to say we'll have a Crystal tower...so they should port everything i enjoyed down to the nuts and bolts from FF11 to FF14 and use that to offhandedly disregard contrary opinions.

My interpretation of what Yoshi-p said was that you have a Crystal tower, it will look and remind you of the past Crystal tower....but not a "Cut and Paste."

I hardly belive they will place things in the game that have not only a story or backround not relevant to the lore of FF14. But an entirely unrelated one.

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Originally Posted by Ceol

Instead of copying a tired and unwanted concept from a 10 year old game, I'd rather SE concentrate on giving us new content!

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I'd personally would want a final test type of fight against Rainemard Mecru (JP VA: Koyasu Takehito, EN VA: Tim Curry). Like Hyrist, I would preffer to have to fight someone that is actually releveant to my chosen job. More for bragging rights or perhaps closing the job storyline rather than for unlocking the job's full potential, IMO.

I did G5 on DRK back in the day, and believe me, it would have been a LOT more satisfying if the battle had been my taru DRK vs Zeid instead of some old guy.

no FFXI-2 please ! No need maat ...

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Originally Posted by Viritess

Your getting the FF14 version of those things. Its not like when you enter the crystal tower its gonna switch you over to pixels and spit an Nintendo controler at you from the Rom drive....

Places/person/names etc from past FF games are great. In this thread you seem to be asking the entirety of "Maat" Down to the system, concept, aesthetic and mechanics.

It seems quite disingenuous to say we'll have a Crystal tower...so they should port everything i enjoyed down to the nuts and bolts from FF11 to FF14 and use that to offhandedly disregard contrary opinions.

My interpretation of what Yoshi-p said was that you have a Crystal tower, it will look and remind you of the past Crystal tower....but not a "Cut and Paste."

I hardly belive they will place things in the game that have not only a story or backround not relevant to the lore of FF14. But an entirely unrelated one.

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That's the thing though.. Magitek is Magitek, it originated in FFVI for all intents and purposes, it was military technology and very rarely does something like that traverse the FF multiverse, so why can Garleans harness (Gun)weapon, which was FFVIII and Magitek technology (FFVI) but you can't consider that copy/paste, but introducing a level cap quest will be copy and paste? When you mention maat, those who played FFXI know they're talking about a series of level cap quests, more specifically the final one back in the day (70 cap fight.) Those who never played XI, that's why you explain how it worked to give an idea.

Crystal Tower is copy and paste, yoshida went on and on about how it's the tower from FFIII and instead of 'no save' it could be something like 'no return', which he was half joking about but it's literally the same mechanic in the sense that it's the same concept from FFIII just as the materia system in name and execution is from FFVII with the exception of learning skills from materia and the Magitek he wants to give players is the exact design from FFVI.

There's nothing wrong with it, but it's quite the double standard that it's ok for them to use concepts, designs and even monsters from other FFs, but from their last successful FF MMO is a nono. I mean, we all seen the concept art, right? Typhoon is clearly a FFXIV original.

So no it's not 'disingenuous' in that regard, it's the simple fact that it's obvious he's literally ripping things from FF games to put into XIV which yoshida himself stated will literally be a fan service game..the sad thing is, people will probably be ok with him using FFMQ material over XI just because it's the cool thing to hate on XI, even though XIV will probably come no where near as successful as XI did in it's prime.

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Originally Posted by Evangelus

no FFXI-2 please ! No need maat ...

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Too bad, you're getting FFIII-2 because of the Crystal Tower using the logic of what turns a game into a '-2'..since you know, XIV takes place in the world of light/darkness and all...

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Being at a certain level implies you have certain knowledge on how to play a job/class. However, because you can just easily solo to it now you can just rely on a few techniques that you might not fully understand. Having a character to 'test' how you play before you can move on is a good thing.

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"Casual != dumb." Casual vs hardcore is mostly a matter of playtime invested. Just because someone doesn't play the game for several hours a day, doesn't mean they're stupid and don't know how to play.

Maat is not much of a "test" of how you play, either- The strategies used to win are not necessarily typical combat strategies employed by the given job. Maat is only a test of how well you can read a guide on the internet to beat a fight and move on.

How did fighting Maat teach you how to play your class? You had a specific set of gear, no sub and had to follow a very specific strategy to win.

I swear to god some of you people look back on oldschool XI with rose tinted glasses.

There's a big difference between wanting something from FFXI, which is an mmo that currently still runs and wanting something from another FF, that is not an mmo. SE really needs to watch what they bring in from FFXI. If I wanted to play FFXI I'd play FFXI. So please stop suggesting every little thing that was in FFXI to be added to XIV.

You know what I want? Some originality, something creative. I want the game to go in a new direction away from FFXI. Stop living in the past and bring on the future. And stop hating on one another so much. It's like watching children argue over a toy.

If it's true meant to be a "you learned your class" type of thing, shouldn't I hit max level as soon as I complete it since I now know my class and there's no other reason to not do end-game?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yep, I mean FFXIV is FFIII so it's perfectly ok to have a Crystal Tower. FFXIV is also FFVI so it's perfectly ok to add in exact replicas of Magitek they utilized. FFXIV is also FFVI that it's perfectly ok to have Typhoon floating around with no doubt Ultros soon to follow. FFXIV is also FFVII that we not only got Materia but we're also getting the Golden Saucer.

...Oh FFXIV isn't those games either o.O

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I think you quoted the wrong person, but I agree with your post.

Let's replace Maat with Sephiroth. Same concept, but it's just Sephiroth. You have to have a bunch of people dedicate their time, just for you to solo a fight against Sephiroth. I mean we're getting locations from other FF worlds, what's wrong with ripping a character straight from another game?

That's what the people for this sound like.

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Originally Posted by Alokin1988

Some originality, something creative.

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B-but Final Fantasy isn't known for creativity! It's known for being the same thing over and over again!

I really hope they don't plan on riding the entire series and throw in some new ideas of their own. If I wanted to play FFI-XIII, I pretty much can do so at any time. Make a new game. New Ideas. We don't need this to become solely FF and other MMO ideas brought together. A few fan favorites tossed in, sure. But this needs to be it's own game.

Elexia why do you still play this game if you love XI sooo much i you defend it like a bear defends her cubs.

Every time someone says they don't want something from XI's you jump thru all these hoops to make your self sound correct for supporting X thing.

I'm wondering what is so hard for people to conceive of the differences between locations and concepts, and characters.

People cite Biggs, Wedge, and Cid as characters that are transposed from other games.

For the most part, they've always been there. They are a part of the universe just as much as Gilgamesh or Ifrit. But like them, they are re-imagined into the world each time.

Chocobos, Crystal Towers, Magitek armors: These are more general concepts, not actual people.

Just because you see Meteria there doesn't mean it's ok for Cloud and Sephiroth to come on into the game. That'd likely tick off a few people. This is the exact same concept. You don't directly transpose one character into another unless it's a spinoff like Dissidia or Kingdom Harts.

This is a direct Final Fantasy title, first and foremost. Let's keep that in mind.

It's not a bad idea but I'd vote to for "no".

Maybe "yes" if it's a lore thing. To fight one of the groups leader from the Empire who never understands that he's losing and acts like Kefka a bit.

Bring him on I owe that old man a few pastings.
As long as the fights are well worked out and of similar difficulty to each other I think it's a great idea.
They have to be skill based though not like for corsair where it didn't matter how good you were whoever got a lucky wild card was going to win.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Elexia why do you still play this game if you love XI sooo much i you defend it like a bear defends her cubs.

Every time someone says they don't want something from XI's you jump thru all these hoops to make your self sound correct for supporting X thing.

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Lost cause yo~

We don't need Maat in this game but, it would be nice to include the concept of what Maat represents. A solo challenge that tests the player's competence with their class/job. Doesn't have to be a single fight either, can be a dungeon or a series of fights that test how proficient a player is at using a specific set of skills. The problem of course is gonna be balancing and how effective the trial tests the player. A lot of times, what devs think and how players think & play a class/job come into conflict.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Elexia why do you still play this game if you love XI sooo much i you defend it like a bear defends her cubs.

Every time someone says they don't want something from XI's you jump thru all these hoops to make your self sound correct for supporting X thing.

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Don't forget, she's also the first person to post in any thread that is a "Bring back X from XI" suggestion that <whine>"People won't want it because it's from XI, but we can have things from other FF's. People Just love to hate on XI"</whine> never once stopping to think that, maybe people who disagree with the Bring back X, didn't like it in XI let alone want it back. If you ask me, XIV has already stolen everything XI did *cough*halfway*cough* right, and improved or streamlined it. Most of what gets suggested are mindbogglingly silly things like "Exp loss on death" or "limit Break quests" or "<INSERT GAMEPLAY MECHANIC FROM A 10 YEAR OLD PS2 GAME HERE>". Taking story elements or broad thematic concepts is one thing. lifting whole gameplay mechanics and/or characters and plopping them into a new game for no other reason than because "I liked it 10 years ago, obviously EVERYONE will still like it now" is a completely different thing.

but on the topic...

No, I don't want limit breaks back. I hated them in XI and thought they were dumb, time consuming, and just a case of "How many lvl 75 friends do you have?" back then. Never being able to get a party together to finally break the lvl 60 cap, coupled with the stultifingly slow lvling curve, and a myriad of other reasons was why I finally threw up my hands and said screw it to XI.

Personally I think EVERY OTHER MMO IN EXISTENCE did it right by just increasing the lvl cap, no silly quest, no "Prove Your Worth For The 50 Bazillionth Time To The Same Jerk, AGAIN!" or "Find me a bucket of prop-wash, and batteries for chemlights" Just new zones, new skills, new challenges, new lvl cap... No reason to make it more complicated than is strictly needed.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Lost cause yo~

We don't need Maat in this game but, it would be nice to include the concept of what Maat represents. A solo challenge that tests the player's competence with their class/job. Doesn't have to be a single fight either, can be a dungeon or a series of fights that test how proficient a player is at using a specific set of skills. The problem of course is gonna be balancing and how effective the trial tests the player. A lot of times, what devs think and how players think & play a class/job come into conflict.

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I'd much prefer a party fight. Like in FFXI, doing BRD Maat didn't teach you how to play BRD. This was the case for lots of jobs bar maybe PLD or NIN.

I mean I'm cool with there being a quest for ascension, but the quest should be different for each class and should be tailored for the play style of each class.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

Don't forget, she's also the first person to post in any thread that is a "Bring back X from XI" suggestion that <whine>"People won't want it because it's from XI, but we can have things from other FF's. People Just love to hate on XI"</whine> never once stopping to think that, maybe people who disagree with the Bring back X, didn't like it in XI let alone want it back. If you ask me, XIV has already stolen everything XI did *cough*halfway*cough* right, and improved or streamlined it. Most of what gets suggested are mindbogglingly silly things like "Exp loss on death" or "limit Break quests" or "<INSERT GAMEPLAY MECHANIC FROM A 10 YEAR OLD PS2 GAME HERE>". Taking story elements or broad thematic concepts is one thing. lifting whole gameplay mechanics and/or characters and plopping them into a new game for no other reason than because "I liked it 10 years ago, obviously EVERYONE will still like it now" is a completely different thing.

but on the topic...

No, I don't want limit breaks back. I hated them in XI and thought they were dumb, time consuming, and just a case of "How many lvl 75 friends do you have?" back then. Never being able to get a party together to finally break the lvl 60 cap, coupled with the stultifingly slow lvling curve, and a myriad of other reasons was why I finally threw up my hands and said screw it to XI.

Personally I think EVERY OTHER MMO IN EXISTENCE did it right by just increasing the lvl cap, no silly quest, no "Prove Your Worth For The 50 Bazillionth Time To The Same Jerk, AGAIN!" or "Find me a bucket of prop-wash, and batteries for chemlights" Just new zones, new skills, new challenges, new lvl cap... No reason to make it more complicated than is strictly needed.

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Conversely though, a lot of people (not you, just quoted you) hate on XI for no particular reason other than "It's XI" which is just as idiotic.

There are plenty of gameplay mechanics that were pioneered in XI that would fit XIV perfectly. The AH system being one. I still don't understand why we have a convoluted ward system in place of that.

Maat? Puhlease!
Laila will put you to the test.
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/2/26/LailaNM.PNG

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Conversely though, a lot of people (not you, just quoted you) hate on XI for no particular reason other than "It's XI" which is just as idiotic.

There are plenty of gameplay mechanics that were pioneered in XI that would fit XIV perfectly. The AH system being one. I still don't understand why we have a convoluted ward system in place of that.

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that just it, Things like an AH or Mog Houses, those are good suggestions, they add something or alleviate problems created by poor implementation of previous systems.

Adding "roadblocks" or "Punishments"...that's a step backwards.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

that just it, Things like an AH or Mog Houses, those are good suggestions, they add something or alleviate problems created by poor implementation of previous systems.

Adding "roadblocks" or "Punishments"...that's a step backwards.

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I agree. I think that there should be tests that you can undertake for a reward (aesthetic or otherwise). But I don't think they should be forced on you.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Anyone else think Maat should make a comeback for 2.0?
Leveling is too easy in this game, and we need to stop the casuals from facerolling their way to lv50.
A Maat type fight would be a perfect road block for this game and it would teach you how to play your class.

Good idea/bad idea?

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If you are so good i bet you never got poweleveled.... right?

Why bother with casuals or ppl being bad? Why bother with those at all? If you are so good you have a good linkshell where you have ppl to do every single piece of event with you so you don't have to contaminate yourself with the bads plague.

I mean being elitist like that just shows how an @ss you should be in real life. You are not the best. Stop thinking you are special and good cause you are not. The best players, the most skilled ones are those playing FPS or RTS with almost super human reflexes and thinking, stuff that you don't have a clue what it is.

I find it extremely funny when i see an elitist in a game where you must have lots of ppl to help you get things done and think they are great for that. It's pathethic. You are pathethic OP.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I agree. I think that there should be tests that you can undertake for a reward (aesthetic or otherwise). But I don't think they should be forced on you.

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My thing is, I'd be okay with a Maat fight being added if it was "Do this quest line with each class, and get a thing like Maat's Cap (which is on par with the Paragon's Crown so as to NOT make it mandatory)" But adding a Maat Fight because "The unwashed masses need to PROVE THEIR WORTH, not to the game, but to OTHER PLAYERS" is just.....well dumb and pointless.

Besides, the Maat fight in XI taught you how to do one specific solo fight in a game that had precious little solo content, it didn't show at all how a person performed in a party, and the fact that you only had to do it with ONE class meant most people I knew did it with the the easiest classes to complete it, then went back to the classes they actually wanted to lvl to 75 afterwards.

Hrm I am amused. Somewhere along the lines this thread jumped from "level cap increase quest" to "bring back a very specific NPC from XI without any changes".
I mean, the two portions of the 'Maat' content are separated from eachother and, whereas I personally think both are utterly ridiculous (Job questline has got it in regards to content of this sort. I just really wish that Estinien was a solo fight and not a group thing, the quest is about your own personal advancement, not about a group's advancement), can someone explain to me how the hell the thread shifted?

I mean, I WAS enjoying the discussion about the 'level cap increase quest' topic, there were like two or three itneresting posts but- Really?

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Anyone else think Maat should make a comeback for 2.0?
Leveling is too easy in this game, and we need to stop the casuals from facerolling their way to lv50.
A Maat type fight would be a perfect road block for this game and it would teach you how to play your class.

Good idea/bad idea?

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Not good for this game. I really enjoyed it in FFXI, but this game it would make no sense for it especially since they want you to level fast.

Need to make a template of this:

FFXIV is not FFXI. If you like FFXI that much then go play FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Miliant

Need to make a template of this:

FFXIV is not FFXI. If you like FFXI that much then go play FFXI.

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This argument is really bad.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

We don't need Maat in this game but, it would be nice to include the concept of what Maat represents. A solo challenge that tests the player's competence with their class/job. Doesn't have to be a single fight either, can be a dungeon or a series of fights that test how proficient a player is at using a specific set of skills. The problem of course is gonna be balancing and how effective the trial tests the player. A lot of times, what devs think and how players think & play a class/job come into conflict.

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^^ This

not an exact port but the concept with FFXIV lore.

- on a sidenote FFXI is a game that may not have had the most subs but is still running. Taking some ideas from XI and porting them into XIV might not be a bad idea. And before ppl rage about it being archaic and slow it was a challenge and was fun. Everyone should think of the things that XI did right rather than treating the very idea of using XI ideas as poison.

Maat was a deliberate progress roadblock.

No, we do not need that.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

If you ask me, XIV has already stolen everything XI did *cough*halfway*cough* right, and improved or streamlined it. but on the topic...

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Yes, thats why it was just as successful......oh wait.

so ive never played FFXI (atleast past level 15) who is maat and what did he do?

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic13371337

so ive never played FFXI (atleast past level 15) who is maat and what did he do?

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He was a rng speedbump fight required to take any class past level 70.

Basicaly, you went in, without a subjob, fought him with just whatever abilities the class you were on had(how he fought was based on your class)

The fight was complete RNG, it was scripted, you had to fight him a certain way, perfectly to win, and any resistance, or misses on attacks, etc etc, and you lost.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

He was a rng speedbump fight required to take any class past level 70.

Basicaly, you went in, without a subjob, fought him with just whatever abilities the class you were on had(how he fought was based on your class)

The fight was complete RNG, it was scripted, you had to fight him a certain way, perfectly to win, and any resistance, or misses on attacks, etc etc, and you lost.

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well that sounds like it would be interesting to have, but maybe if they implement it here, they could tone down the RNG.

since this game has enough of that imo

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic13371337

well that sounds like it would be interesting to have, but maybe if they implement it here, they could tone down the RNG.

since this game has enough of that imo

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did i mention the fight only lasted roughly 30 seconds?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

did i mention the fight only lasted roughly 30 seconds?

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i had assumed it was going to be a "fight" fight, like ifrit or something but tuned for solo play.

if its that short though then rng would be fine, though i can see how people could get annoyed if you had to do it for EVERY class.

maybe make it a story line quest for a skill cap?

If he isn't a battle I at least want him to be a guy sitting on a bench somewhere and whenever you talk to him he screams "WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT TO FIGHT ME!?"

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Anyone else think Maat should make a comeback for 2.0?
Leveling is too easy in this game, and we need to stop the casuals from facerolling their way to lv50.
A Maat type fight would be a perfect road block for this game and it would teach you how to play your class.

Good idea/bad idea?

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though Maat would be a cool addition your hate for casual players is increasingly disturbing, especially since you yourself admitted to being powerleveled.

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Originally Posted by RemnantWolf

If he isn't a battle I at least want him to be a guy sitting on a bench somewhere and whenever you talk to him he screams "WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT TO FIGHT ME!?"

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you know... the bad thing is I can hear in my head you saying that...