FFXIV did not win any awards at the 2023 Video Game Awards

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Hahaha, looks like some of your loyal fans found you on the forums.

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The Lala Wall is relentless. If they're not all destroyed it will be civil war without end.




Go forth to victory.

Considering the enormity of BG3 it's not a surprise at all that it won.

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Originally Posted by WeebPolice

The Lala Wall is relentless. If they're not all destroyed it will be civil war without end.




Go forth to victory.

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Lmao, ok calm down there Palpatine.

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Originally Posted by WeebPolice

Citizens, we got two nominations: Best Community Support and Best Ongoing Game, but we won neither of them. Best Community Support went to BG3 and Best Ongoing Game went to Cyberpunk 2077. Congrats to both of them. Maybe next year.




The dark times will pass.

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But BG3 should have honestly won the best game for 2023. It's frankly quite good, and I cannot STAND turn based games, and I've never played DnD. However, BG3 was/is a great, great game to play.

BG3 is boring drivel. I played it for 20 miserable hours then quit as a result of said boredom. The combat is glacial and terribly boring. It didn't win any awards as far as I am concerned. I don't care about the awards media outlets with "gamers" that don't play games conclude.

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

But BG3 should have honestly won the best game for 2023. It's frankly quite good, and I cannot STAND turn based games, and I've never played DnD. However, BG3 was/is a great, great game to play.

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Agreed, citizen. I've had a great time with BG3 and I think every award it won was well deserved.




We serve so others do not have to.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Lmao, ok calm down there Palpatine.

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https://media1.tenor.com/m/xDAxiLG5-...-star-wars.gif




Remember the fallen.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

BG3 is boring drivel. I played it for 20 miserable hours then quit as a result of said boredom. The combat is glacial and terribly boring. It didn't win any awards as far as I am concerned. I don't care about the awards media outlets with "gamers" that don't play games conclude.

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The same could be said about this game recently as well. I commented about it in another thread, but there is no denying that this game has slipped since Yoshi-P began working on FF16. It hit its low, and (I believe) is climbing back up, but it took an expansion's time to do so. It could have and should have come sooner with the QoL improvements they have been talking about at the Fanfest events. I look forward to this game continuing to improve, but in summary the point I was making with BG3 was: It was deserving of them to win, while this game was not (at least this go around).

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Originally Posted by Greyhawk

The same could be said about this game recently as well. I commented about it in another thread, but there is no denying that this game has slipped since Yoshi-P began working on FF16. It hit its low, and (I believe) is climbing back up, but it took an expansion's time to do so. It could have and should have come sooner with the QoL improvements they have been talking about at the Fanfest events. I look forward to this game continuing to improve, but in summary the point I was making with BG3 was: It was deserving of them to win, while this game was not (at least this go around).

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FFXVI began development in 2015.
FFXIV Shadowbringers began in 2017 and released in 2019.

As we all know, Shadowbringers is the lowest low that this game has ever experienced. I'm so glad this game can move on from that horrible expansion.

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Originally Posted by RaideDuku

As we all know, Shadowbringers is the lowest low that this game has ever experienced. I'm so glad this game can move on from that horrible expansion.

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Uh, no? Shadowbringers is literally regarded as one of the best expansions ever released, with Emet-Selch regarded as one of the best characters ever made and its story frequently hyped as a reason to go through the lower level MSQ. It also gave us content that isn't just high-end raiding such as Bozja, Zadnor and its abundance of fun CEs and raids. Personally, I enjoyed how varied they were able to make each zone and bring a high fantasy feel to each of them. The raid story and FF8 themes were great too.

They achieved all of that in spite of covid and in spite of all the companies they outsource to for assets being unable to meet deadlines due to covid.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Uh, no? Shadowbringers is literally regarded as one of the best expansions ever released, with Emet-Selch regarded as one of the best characters ever made and its story frequently hyped as a reason to go through the lower level MSQ. It also gave us content that isn't just high-end raiding such as Bozja, Zadnor and its abundance of fun CEs and raids. Personally, I enjoyed how varied they were able to make each zone and bring a high fantasy feel to each of them. The raid story and FF8 themes were great too.

They achieved all of that in spite of covid and in spite of all the companies they outsource to for assets being unable to meet deadlines due to covid.

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I think that's sarcasm you are replying to

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Originally Posted by Mosha

I think that's sarcasm you are replying to

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There is so much negativity on these forums that people would actually say that about Shadowbringers and mean it.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There is so much negativity on these forums that people would actually say that about Shadowbringers and mean it.

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Oh I remember there were a number of people here actually bagging ShB at it's launch and shortly thereafter, mostly just sour grapes from a few players salty that they didn't get to be an edgy evildoer as the 'Warrior of Darkness'...

There was also the usual vitriol about Job changes at the time, and how SE supposedly 'ruined FOREVER' their favourite Jobs, and thus ShB was 'the worst expansion so far'. *rolls eyes*

Things never change.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Oh I remember there were a number of people here actually bagging ShB at it's launch and shortly thereafter, mostly just sour grapes from a few players salty that they didn't get to be an edgy evildoer as the 'Warrior of Darkness'...

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For sure, even before ShB had released the job changes were being attacked in the job forums and then for content due to the effects of covid, even though they delivered most of it in spite of covid.

yeah shadowbringers was probably TEH BEST EVAR!!1 if you mained one of the jobs the developers care about lmao
so basically not scholar, astrologian, dark knight, bard, machinist etc

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

yeah shadowbringers was probably TEH BEST EVAR!!1 if you mained one of the jobs the developers care about lmao
so basically not scholar, astrologian, dark knight, bard, machinist etc

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Man Warrior was so good. Just BAM FLASH and I'm full health AGAIN and on that day I never needed to worry about bad healers in expert anymore.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

yeah shadowbringers was probably TEH BEST EVAR!!1 if you mained one of the jobs the developers care about lmao
so basically not scholar, astrologian, dark knight, bard, machinist etc

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I've said this a bunch of times before but Shadowbringers is absolutely to blame for the current state of job design, Endwalker just doubled down on the terrible design path created by ShB.

For what it's worth, Shadowbringers is when the quality on a lot of small-detail type stuff dropped massively. Also when they started doing a single dungeon per patch instead of giving us any non-MSQ dungeons.

All this was before COVID too, before someone uses it as an excuse.

Like, yeah, the MSQ was good and it's still my favorite expansion in terms of storytelling, but it had a lot of issues outside of that. It's when it became obvious FFXVI was taking resources from FFXIV to me.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

Shadowbringers is when the quality on a lot of small-detail type stuff dropped massively.

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Such as? If you mean jobs, that was intentional to make them easier to play as a new, casual or returning player - which constitute the majority of people who play the game tbh.

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Also when they started doing a single dungeon per patch instead of giving us any non-MSQ dungeons.

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That actually began in Stormblood, where they gave us a single dungeon in some patches and two dungeons in other patches. It wasn't particularly to cut resources but rather to reinvest the resources into something else, because we were getting close to 100 dungeons and that's a lot.

The whole point of doing 3 dungeons per patch in ARR was because we hardly had any dungeons then and they desperately needed to make the variety of content on par with a more established MMORPG like WoW. By having nearly 100 dungeons that goal was achieved so it was time to move the resources elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Such as? If you mean jobs, that was intentional to make them easier to play as a new, casual or returning player - which constitute the majority of people who play the game tbh.

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Gender locked races, armor pieces not working with said races, and it's the expansion they started being a bit lazy with racial features like miqo'te ears and tails. I said small-detail stuff.

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That actually began in Stormblood, where they gave us a single dungeon in some patches and two dungeons in other patches. It wasn't particularly to cut resources but rather to reinvest the resources into something else, because we were getting close to 100 dungeons and that's a lot.

The whole point of doing 3 dungeons per patch in ARR was because we hardly had any dungeons then and they desperately needed to make the variety of content on par with a more established MMORPG like WoW. By having nearly 100 dungeons that goal was achieved so it was time to move the resources elsewhere.

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Yes, and then they removed even more and lowered it down to 1 per patch instead of 2 every other. My statement stands and I'm not sure why you're claiming what I said wasn't correct. We objectively got less dungeons in ShB and I can't point to a single place they moved the resources to, tbh. It's not like we gained something else.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

Gender locked races

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This was very reasonable because they said it was very difficult to add races. It not only involves a lot of work but it means extra work on a permanent basis, because they have to adjust all new gear to work with the new races as well and also add new hair styles and things like that, all of which can increase the time it takes to develop a patch.

They only wanted to add Hrothgar, because of the lack of beastly and non-human looking races, but they couldn't ignore that a lot of people had been wanting viera.

I think it was a perfect situation for it too, because Hrothgar being beastly was more aimed at males since, well, males are usually the most beastly, so making female Hrothgar didn't fully align with their goals. Meanwhile, the only reference material that existed for viera was female, so that made sense as well. This created a perfect situation where they could make 2 races for the price of 1.

Having them is surely better than not having them. With all the criticism it might have been easier for them to just not have added them at all though.

At this point though, they should just use AI to do everything, since it seems like it can trivialize game development now.

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armor pieces not working with said races

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That part is odd because of how players achieved it, but it's always been a similar problem with other areas of the game, where a player can make it work but somehow it's too difficult or too taxing on machines for the developers to do it.

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Yes, and then they removed even more and lowered it down to 1 per patch instead of 2 every other. My statement stands and I'm not sure why you're claiming what I said wasn't correct.

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Because you were saying that process started in Shadowbringers, but it was really just an extension of something that had begun to reduce in Stormblood, so saying that we started getting less in Shadowbringers is ignoring that we started getting less in Stormblood.

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We objectively got less dungeons in ShB and I can't point to a single place they moved the resources to, tbh. It's not like we gained something else.

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That's hard to really say. In Stormblood, we got 4 Eureka areas which was an awful lot, with the NMs and environments potentially being some of the reinvested resources.

In Shadowbringers, we had some other projects such as the ARR rework, Ocean Fishing areas, Ishgard Restoration and its new housing area and a more extensive area for the the pixie beast tribe area.

Meanwhile, in Endwalker we have had a lot of work on new Crystalline Conflict maps, complete redesigns of the bosses in all the old MSQ dungeons each patch along with NPC support being added, some trials and duties were completely redone (such as Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium) or made into duties (such as Steps of Faith and Cape Westwind) all of which involve battle design resources. Of course we have also had more Ocean Fishing, Island Sanctuary and 3 variant and 3 criterion dungeons.

While much of these may be resources taken from a Eureka or Bozja/Zadnor area, since they all involve environment or battle design, some of them could be what would normally be used for the extra dungeon.

Overall, a lot of people don't notice the reinvested resources because it's stuff that isn't relevant to them ie. MSQ rework, Ocean Fishing, The Firmament, Island Sanctuary, PvP maps, Criterion.

All this is stuff that someone who's main content is dungeons, alliance raids, extremes or 8-person savage probably wouldn't care about much but realistically the things I listed do involve development resources that could be used to create a dungeon so that is probably where those resources ended up.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There is so much negativity on these forums that people would actually say that about Shadowbringers and mean it.

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Sorry but I think Stormblood was a lot more interesting than discount Shin Megami Tensei/Tales of Symphonia/Final Fantasy X...bringers.

Shadowbringers just gets too overhyped and when you actually take a step back and look at the narrative as a whole, its just another above average tale like the other expansion stories just with a cooler setting. The story was very easily formulaic and predicatble like 80% of the time and really the only big moment people get so googly eyed over is just that like 20% between Defeating Vauthry, Crystal Exarch getting exposed and Emet Selch popping a cap while inviting you to his crib thats off the hook down in the deep blue sea.

Game like Baldurs Gate 3 did though, it is a good way to show the world that actual good games still exist and that there is seriously good developers out there too.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

yeah shadowbringers was probably TEH BEST EVAR!!1 if you mained one of the jobs the developers care about lmao
so basically not scholar, astrologian, dark knight, bard, machinist etc

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Or maybe just for those who associate "Shadowbringers" with (and liked) "the story told during patches 5.0 to 5.55" and not the details of job design during that era?

I don't think that much about job design anyway, but when I do, it's more like a separate thread of game evolution that might have happened alongside Shdowbringers MSQ but that doesn't make it part of what Shadowbringers actually is, especially in the context of saying that Shadowbringers was a good expansion. I will assume they are talking about the story experience, not how jobs played at the time.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The story was very easily formulaic and predicatble like 80% of the time and really the only big moment people get so googly eyed over is just that like 20% between Defeating Vauthry, Crystal Exarch getting exposed and Emet Selch popping a cap while inviting you to his crib thats off the hook down in the deep blue sea.

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Don't forget the first time you see Rapture...I mean Amaurot.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Or maybe just for those who associate "Shadowbringers" with (and liked) "the story told during patches 5.0 to 5.55" and not the details of job design during that era?

I don't think that much about job design anyway, but when I do, it's more like a separate thread of game evolution that might have happened alongside Shdowbringers MSQ but that doesn't make it part of what Shadowbringers actually is, especially in the context of saying that Shadowbringers was a good expansion. I will assume they are talking about the story experience, not how jobs played at the time.

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It's kinda hard to disconnect the actual gameplay from the overall expansion quality when it's like 90% of what you do. The story takes up very little time spent with the game, unless that's literally all you do before unsubscribing.
The job design has a massive impact on most of the activities outside of watching cutscenes and reading dialogue.

It's why I do not understand why CBU3 puts so little focus on good gameplay. It's an MMORPG (even if people sometimes try to claim otherwise), so when I spend 95% of my time in the game running the same activities, because the game expects me to, and doing so is not particularly engaging then the experience suffers heavily overall, doesn't matter how good the 5% of story are.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Don't forget the first time you see Rapture...I mean Amaurot.



It's kinda hard to disconnect the actual gameplay from the overall expansion quality when it's like 90% of what you do. The story takes up very little time spent with the game, unless that's literally all you do before unsubscribing.
The job design has a massive impact on most of the activities outside of watching cutscenes and reading dialogue.

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Firstly, there's a difference between how much time a person might spend playing the story versus how much time they might spend thinking about the story. I'm a lore nerd, I'm discussing the story constantly and replaying it occasionally.

Secondly, regular gameplay has more to it than just the jobs themselves being played in a void. If I'm running a dungeon or trial then my focus is on the environment and the boss mechanics, and the buttons I have to press while doing those mechanics are a distant second that apply to the game as a whole and not just a single expansion.

Thirdly, following on from that previous thought, the state of battle system is ephemeral and not permanently linked to the gameplay of an expansion. If I replay Heavensward today, the battle system will not be the same as the one I played when I went through the story for the first time in 2017, but the things that are still there – the story, the dungeons, the music – are what makes it Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Firstly, there's a difference between how much time a person might spend playing the story versus how much time they might spend thinking about the story. I'm a lore nerd, I'm discussing the story constantly and replaying it occasionally.

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Not much to say here, happy for you if the story is taking up that much of your time engaging with the game.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Secondly, regular gameplay has more to it than just the jobs themselves being played in a void. If I'm running a dungeon or trial then my focus is on the environment and the boss mechanics, and the buttons I have to press while doing those mechanics are a distant second that apply to the game as a whole and not just a single expansion.

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I may spend the first few times with my focus on the mechanics or environment, for dungeons probably less because they have little to offer besides pretty backgrounds, but even if the mechanics are less formulaic for once I won't have my eyes glued to the boss casting a donut aoe for the 10th time.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Thirdly, following on from that previous thought, the state of battle system is ephemeral and not permanently linked to the gameplay of an expansion. If I replay Heavensward today, the battle system will not be the same as the one I played when I went through the story for the first time in 2017, but the things that are still there – the story, the dungeons, the music – are what makes it Heavensward.

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Yes the battle system is ephemeral...and it's gradual degradation has actually made old content worse. Simplified rotations, potency bloat, outright removal of lower level abilities and job mechanics have not only contributed to completely destroying the sense of danger from older boss fights but barely having to think about playing your job properly also exposes how basic most of the mechanics from back then (and often also now where dungeons are concerned) are...if you even still see most of them, which is unlikely.

If I play Heavensward today it is a worse experience than it was back in 3.0 or even 4.0

It didn't really deserve any awards tbh. I was surprised it was even a contender.