7.0 DPS Wishlist

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

It has nothing to do with rotation, so miss. Asking for RPR to not be punished in situations other melee jobs aren't punished in isn't "pushing a redesign," so also a miss. It's about inconsistency leading to clunkiness.

NIN doesn't lose Raiju Ready for using it's ranged options, so why should RPR lose Soul Reaver for using theirs?

MNK doesn't lose Masterful Blitz if they use other weaponskills prior to it. They don't even lose a Nadi gain if they mess up their Perfect Balance, so why should RPR be left sitting on their hands if they don't want to waste SR during disengage?

SAM doesn't lose Ogi Namikiri Ready if they use other weaponskills prior, and that's a much more potent of a skill than Gibbet or Gallows. They even get it with less steps involved.

DRG can sit on Dive Ready for 15 seconds before spending it, and doesn't lose it when executing other skills, and having that convenience makes the job feel better to play. So why do you think RPR shouldn't be afforded that?

There is no "redesign," there is just wanting options available to you in situations that no other melee DPS job has to worry about. It's just Soul Reaver, friend.

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Yes a meaningful skill check because it only applies to RPR, would it be a meaningful skill check on RPR if you did it the same way on all 5 melee

RPR barely has any skill expression as it is, please leave it with something

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I'm a bit baffled at how you are using Stalk twice in a row without a Gibbet or Gallows in between. There's a 1 second recast on Stalk so you can't weave it with itself even by accident, so you'd have to grossly clip your GCD to even attempt this. It sounds like a worrying skill issue.

You'll probably see this as less of an issue after you've had a bit more practice and the chance to play the job in a raid setting.

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I never mentioned using Stalk twice in a row. You came to that assumption on your own, and got it wrong. Proud of you!

You do however get two stacks of SR from Gluttony, which is the only real situation Stalk and Swathe not breaking unspent stacks would be useful, if not just a nice convenience. I'd like to be able to Gluttony > Gibbet > Stalk > Gallows > Gibbet, but with how Stalk and Swathe are currently designed, it's not possible. I'm not worried about how that would effect the job in a raid setting, but something tells me it's not all that serious. That's for pretentious folk like you to figure out.

It's for convenience in fringe situations that I don't run into with other jobs. And it is only two situations: the one mentioned above, and the other being able to Harpe or Harvest at range without losing a stack before you're back in melee range, something every other melee job is able to do. Very niche situations, but I guess together they add up to a "job redesign," huh? I promise you it's not that complicated, Lyth.

This is a wishlist thread, btw. Wanna spat, go make a new thread for it.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

I never mentioned using Stalk twice in a row.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

Even using Blood Stalk or Grim Swathe, abilities that generate Soul Reaver, destroy unspent Soul Reaver stacks. That alone doesn't make much sense.

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At the very least, please prevent Harpe, Harvest Moon, Blood Stalk, and Grim Swathe from destroying Soul Reaver stacks.

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Again, I really don't understand the 'problem' that you're trying to address. I think if you're going to insist on changes to a job, you should have a relatively good understanding of its gameplay. It might seem mean spirited, but if people don't speak out against proposed simplifications, you run into situations like what happened with SAM and Kaiten.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

you run into situations like what happened with SAM and Kaiten.

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You mean having a completely worthless button removed because it adds nothing of value to the rotation? Sounds good.

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Originally Posted by Flana

You mean having a completely worthless button removed because it adds nothing of value to the rotation? Sounds good.

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Yeah and instead you get the lovely shinten gauge which is approaching healer levels of your rotations collective button presses

Such a great design

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Again, I really don't understand the 'problem' that you're trying to address. I think if you're going to insist on changes to a job, you should have a relatively good understanding of its gameplay. It might seem mean spirited, but if people don't speak out against proposed simplifications, you run into situations like what happened with SAM and Kaiten.

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This is more aimed at other people reading that: RPR being able to use Harpe and Harvest Moon in two (2) additional niche situations without a loss of meter is not equivalent to "SAM and Kaiten," as RPR isn't losing any part of it's kit in this situation. That is a disassociated leap in logic.

I can't make it any simpler for you, Lyth.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Yes a meaningful skill check because it only applies to RPR, would it be a meaningful skill check on RPR if you did it the same way on all 5 melee

RPR barely has any skill expression as it is, please leave it with something

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So, funny thing about that "skill expression" that you seem to think I want taken away. I mentioned Stalk and Swathe eating unspent Soul Reaver stacks. It's a restriction that limits what you can and cannot do while you have Soul Reaver. The removal of that restriction removes those limits, which leaves you with more choices of what to do in that scenario. Being given more options in a situation creates the potential to make the less optimal decision, and adversely creates room for learning and improvement. I don't feel I have to explain this to you, you should know this.

I'm not sure what your definition of "skill expression" is, but a greater degree of decision-making for the player that creates gaps in performance from player-to-player based on skill level sounds like "skill expression" to me.

Now, I'm going to subvert everything I just said by saying that I don't care about ultimate optimization. If that's your thing, then good for you! What I do care about is enjoying job gameplay, and I'd enjoy RPR just a little bit more of I had more options available to me after I use Gluttony. The job isn't going to crumble to ashes if it has that, and I'll probably still enjoy it if it doesn't get that. I'll survive, and I'm sure you'll find some way to manage, too.

Maybe a black mage take, but get rid of Despair, and readjust Flare to be used in both AOE, and single target.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Maybe a black mage take, but get rid of Despair, and readjust Flare to be used in both AOE, and single target.

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I’m not opposed to this per say but what would it really achieve, BLM is not remotely button bloated, BLM is unique amongst the classes as it’s basically the only one that has a fulfilling AOE rotation considering it’s AOE rotation uses 6 seperate buttons that aren’t used on single target, it’s actually the thing that makes me like BLM in dungeon content

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’m not opposed to this per say but what would it really achieve, BLM is not remotely button bloated, BLM is unique amongst the classes as it’s basically the only one that has a fulfilling AOE rotation considering it’s AOE rotation uses 6 seperate buttons that aren’t used on single target, it’s actually the thing that makes me like BLM in dungeon content

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I was kinda considering "bloat," but more so that Flare feels like it has more 'oomf' to it than Despair.

you know what that's fair, Despair looks and literally sounds like a wet fart, I'm shocked it doesn't look like that attack Y'shtola uses in ShB where she drops a sun onto Emet

I agree, I’d honestly prefer to keep them as seperate buttons but please fix how bad despair looks and feels, it barely has a sound effect and it looks weaker than fire 4, hell blizzard 4 looks more impactful than despair

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

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You're asking that the game designers remove the possibility of you making an unforced error in gameplay. On RPR, if you choose to generate Soul Reaver stacks, you are committing your next GCD(s) to spend those on positionals. That should be muscle memory. If you commit to those GCDs and the boss jumps, or if you disengage, then that was a mistake and you will lose dps for it. It's not a particularly difficult check, but it is a check nonetheless. Allowing actions that could be used as placeholder GCDs would let you evade the damage loss for poor judgement.

There are plenty of jobs that require you to think before you commit. NIN's Raiju is another such example. It's really just a check of whether you're thinking and planning several GCDs in advance.

I think if you're routinely losing Soul Reaver stacks on RPR, then your primary focus should be on improving your own play before anything else. Everyone asks why gameplay simplifications are happening across all jobs, and posts like that are the reason why. Rather than accepting the discomfort of failure and working on self-improvement, people try to change the jobs to compensate for their mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

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You'll get over it.

This isn't personal. I don't agree with your proposed suggestions. I think that they would make the gameplay experience worse for competent players.

I encourage everyone to actively speak out against proposed simplifications to jobs that they enjoy playing. It's not enough to be indifferent to bad ideas. You have to let the dev team know in advance that even thinking about implementing them would be unacceptable.

Another possible black mage take, but Xenoglossy seems like it's actually lightning aspected, and should be the finisher/reward for casting a chain of lightning spells. So a major BLM change I would want would be to add an astral lightning phase to the gauge -- potentially being a phase to used for extended movement, and that it is how polyglot generation can be made to scale with spell speed.

this probably has been answered some time ago but i really want to know why the dev cant put 1-2-3 combo in 1 button?

i can understand if it for sam since their first combo (hakaze) can be directed to either jinpu or shifu, but for mch combo (split - slug - clean) why they cant put it in 1 button?

with expac coming up we gonna have several new skill and that mean more button to be slotted, as brd and sam main, iam having so many button in my hotbar now, its nothing game breaking, it just made my (bottom) screen feel "full"

Because there's no DPS job that has a simple 1-2-3 combo except Reaper and Machinist. The next closest things are Ninja and Dragoon, and creating an issue where you lose muscle memory and forget where you are on the combo string when you mindlessly smash one button healer style isn't actually going to make them more comfortable to play. This is a hotbar management skill issue more than anything.

There are way better things to trim than the bread and butter combos.

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Originally Posted by gumas

this probably has been answered some time ago but i really want to know why the dev cant put 1-2-3 combo in 1 button?

i can understand if it for sam since their first combo (hakaze) can be directed to either jinpu or shifu, but for mch combo (split - slug - clean) why they cant put it in 1 button?

with expac coming up we gonna have several new skill and that mean more button to be slotted, as brd and sam main, iam having so many button in my hotbar now, its nothing game breaking, it just made my (bottom) screen feel "full"

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I feel like the whole point of a combo is that it is a chain of different buttons that need to pressed in sequence for a desired outcome. Funny you mention MCH, in PVP they did do away with the Clean Shot combo in favor of Blast Charge. But Blast Charge is a walking cast GCD so it was more like replacing one mechanic with a different one as well as being able to work with their self-imposed constraint of 6-7 hotbar slots for actions for PVP jobs. PVE jobs do not have such constraints. While it works for MCH -- Blast Charge feels great to use, as it is already a somewhat spammy job, it would break jobs where combos are important to them.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Because there's no DPS job that has a simple 1-2-3 combo except Reaper and Machinist. The next closest things are Ninja and Dragoon, and creating an issue where you lose muscle memory and forget where you are on the combo string when you mindlessly smash one button healer style isn't actually going to make them more comfortable to play. This is a hotbar management skill issue more than anything.

There are way better things to trim than the bread and butter combos.

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The RDM melee combo is a simple 1-2-3 combo, and I don't really see why they don't collapse it into one button other than they feel that people rarely flubbing their own keybinds for it is somehow a test of skill. Even then you just need to hit 3 enchanted melee attacks to start the finishers, even if they are all the same melee attack or out of sequence of the combo.

NIN

First off - delete the Ninki Gauge. It feels tacked on and pointless. Just give us two Bhava/Hellfrog charges on a 40 second cooldown while Bunshin becomes a standard 90 second cooldown.

No, don't reverse the Mug/Trick Attack change. Instead I want the way how they interact with the 'environment' being changed.

Every other raid or personal damage buff is applied to the party whereas Mug and Trick Attack are applied to the target. Also Mug is still used in aoe because of the attached Ninki but TA is COMPLETELY useless on multiple targets.

Mug and Trick Attack should be applied to the party or the Ninja themselves respectively instead of being enemy debuffs. This makes Mug far more useable in aoe situations because the damage increase would not only effect one enemy but all of them - just like how every other raid buff is working.
Every bard song is used like that so I don't see why it shouldn't be working for the Ninja as well.
This currently doesn't change how Trick Attack is used in those situations - namely you don't use it in aoe, but this is where my next idea comes into play.

Make Doton grant the Ninja the Hidden effect, similar to Suiton.
This way TA actually can be used in aoe for more personal aoe damage.
Doton however should not end when you use TA inside the Doton. The actual Doton should be another icon on your buffbar next to the Doton-Hidden effect.
Also, Mug should be level 50 and Trick Attack level 45.

The Suiton and Doton buff should be separated because of:
Make Meisui convert either Suiton or Doton.
The effect of a converted Suiton doesn't change that much: increase the next Bhavas potency and add a free charge of Bhava.
Dotons effect is similar but for Hellfrog Medium. The Doton itself remains on the field, only the Hidden status provided by Doton is converted.

I hope it all made sense e.e

Reaper wishlist, vaguely ordered from most practical to least practical.

1. Rearrange the level reaper gets skills at so that level syncing isn't so terrible.

2. A little button consolidation. Mostly, arcane circle should become plentiful harvest and enshroud should become communio.

3. A trait where Harvest Moon applies the shadow of death debuff. Not much endgame value but it would be nice in dungeons.

4. One of the basic combo buttons upgrading to provide 20 gauge instead of 10 so I can enshroud more.

5. I'd like to see the voidsent get to do a bit more. Probably something like when you exit enshroud, your demon buddy hangs around like esteem and does attacks with you for a few gcd's.

DRG wishlist~~

1. Remove some of the bloat buttons such as:
- Life Surge. Just build that in somewhere or give a potency buff to compensate.
- Lance charge. We already have Dragon sight, just make that a little stronger and remove Lance charge.

2. More Jumps. Make Dragoon way more jump centric. Maybe Life of the Dragon can give you access to a new Jump that's on the GCD and is reduced to I dunno... say 1.5s so you can spam. Either put it on a really short timer or have a resource that those jumps expend. Then you have your Star Diver as an ender. Bit like RPR? and a bit like MCH? Point is find some way to give us more jumps :D

3. Even more jumps. Give us a new jump, call it Super Jump. It would behave like the DRG PVP limit break, Skyhigh/Skyshatter but it would be built as a engage/downtime type skill. Slap a channelling time of like 5s during combat and make it instant outside of combat (like reaper's Soulsow) It would give DRG something to do during downtime. Also, instead of just avoiding all damage while in the air, just make it something like take 10% reduced damage. (DRG also the only melee with no personal mit loldrg)

4. Make skill drift less punishing. Give DRG a little more flexibility on timings with things like Jump and Geirskogul. It is horrid how essential those two skills are to the DRG kit and as soon as they drift out of sync the super strict DRG rotation goes down the toilet. I understand it's part of what separates the better players from the average players but this is just not a fun way to go about it. Find another way to make DRG more technically challenging to execute, just not this super strict all all or nothing approach. (I wouldn't mind more positionals or more jumps that we have to negotiate timings and avoid AoE's that turn us into loldrgs)

MNK has five abilities for a state of either downtime or not being able to punch the enemy at a particular moment: Meditate, Thunderclap, Formshift, Anatman, and Six-Sided Star. Out of all of these, the first two are used much more often than the others, while the others are used 0-2 times a fight. I think some of them can either be removed or made more usable.

Formshift: Removed. MNK now takes a formless fist stance out of combat indefinitely.

Anatman: Return chakra gain to it, grant formless stance when channelled for a few seconds, reduce CD.

Six-sided Star: Increase to 5y, guarantee a chakra pip, and have it refresh Disciplined Fist if active.

The rest is mostly housekeeping. I want chakra overflow; 7 is fine but won't say no to more. Riddle of Wind is mathematically useful but boring; make it more interesting. Give us a trait that gives us more HP because in every Final Fantasy but this one, monks have dummy thicc HP. Also, while monk doesn't have a button bloat issue, Perfect Balance should just become Masterful Blitz. Game won't let us spend it until it's compiled 3 attacks so may as well.

Lastly, a prayer to the Twelve I will never have answered: give back positionals on opo opo and raptor.

DRG has no bloat.

Besides if you are going to remove buffs from DRG, remove Battle Litany. I'm so tired of the stupid mandatory 2 min raid wide buff on every job. Lance Charge especially actually flows with the rotation instead of being just another fire and forget on CD.

My biggest wish is a really simple change they could do right now.

Adjust bloodbath so that it restores health based off all damage dealt, not just physical damage. Right now the skill is needlessly worse for ninjas who have a half magic damage kit.

xD

I thought this was just a rando wishlist for rando players :P I'm not SE so don't worry so much hahaha.

DRG is bretty bloaty imo though :D and it is defos on MYYYY wishlist to reduce the more boring side of the 2min button spam. Life Surge and Lance Charge being the biggest unnecessary buttons (IMO) xD

Just try finding a spot to put feint during openers or 2min windows xD

You are free to disagree of course, but remember I'm not SE. You're okay :P just a bit of fun while we wait for dawntrail :D

How is Life surge unnecessary when you need to use it at an exact time in your combo? Like it's actually a CD that has a proper place in your rotation instead of just a whatever button you press on cooldown like so many cooldowns in this game are. Like an actually gem in a sea of superfluous 30s/60s/120s skills this game keeps using as a design crutch.

DRG is the only job in the entire game I can't comfortably fit into my keybinds. The 4-combos are part of it, but the overall bloat of the oGCDs is the biggest pain IMO
I get that "jumping" is kind of a big deal for the job, but do we really need Jump, Mirage Dive, Spineshatter Dirve, Dragonfire Dive and Stardiver all as independent oGCDs each requiring its own button?

Having Mirage Dive replace Jump/High Jump upon use seems like the obvious first fix.
Then have Life of the Dragon give you a "Stardiver ready" buff that turns Jump into Stardiver for one use

This is less related to bloat, but I also really dislike boring self buffs like Life Surge, Lance Charge and Dragon Sight.
If DRG had actual interactions with crit (as in some effect that procs when certain skills crit), then I could get behind Life Surge, but alas there are none.
And Lance charge and Dragon Sight are completely uninspired. Just granting a small damage buff with no other effects is boring as all hell.

I do agree DRG has oGCD bloat.

It's funny because I started the game late StB and mostly PvP'd, so I learned DRG in that environment where they didn't have Mirage Dive in PvP despite it being in PvE. I went to PvE and tried to learn it and it made the flow feel a lot less satisfying. Know it's purely subjective though it felt more natural to advance the gauge with my jump and the spectral dragon head is way cooler in something than the LB than something that is spammed.

Ah... I guess "unnecessary" was the wrong word. More like least necessary? Maybe? Point I'm making is that in the glut of OGCDs that dragoon has, I would nominate lance charge and life surge to take the axe first. Why? Because they don't affect party play in raids and that is what DRG is designed around these days. Again, these are just my thoughts, im not trying to invalidate other peoples opinions xD

As to the chap that said DRG has no bloat. Currently the DRG 2min window is jam packed to the brim. I think we can all agree there is no room to fit anymore OGCDs without them falling outside the buff windows. At present we already have to play a prio game about which skills must fall under our max buffs and which can sit at the tail end. This is at lvl 90 DRG. We are talking about a wishlist for lvl 100 DRG no? I'd assume more skills being added. If we don't shave away some current skills how would we fit new potentially cooler skills in our rotation?

That's to say nothing about how strict it is to land everything in a very precise order with little to no room for drift. Now throw in weird phase timings and suddenly youve missed a jump, or a mirage dive. Maybe you missed your window for stardiver and it comes up right before heavens thrust. Oh whats that? You gotta hit life surge first. Welp guess stardiver has gotta clip the gcd or wait till the next window.

I get that people find this style of dragoon rewarding and want to keep it the same. Thats cool, im a super DRG fan too. I love how DRG plays despite the drift prone all or nothing nature of it. But that's just it, I like it despite it all. And my wishlist would be for that aspect of it to be aleviated OR at the very least some of the old stuff to get axed for newer potentially more exciting stuff.

(Also, this is just my wishlist for 7.0 :P you can have your own wishlist too! >:D)

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Originally Posted by Big-Isaac

Having Mirage Dive replace Jump/High Jump upon use seems like the obvious first fix.

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Haha, not particularly wishlist relevant BUT they actually tried this already! Mirage dive would replace High jump after it was used and lotsa people thought it was great but then there was the unintended issue where sometimes you mash the high jump button off cd and people would end up accidentally firing off both high jump AND mirage dive. The issue was sometimes you're already sitting on 2 eyes and you want to sit on mirage dive and fire off gierskogul to enter life of the dragon before finally hitting that mirage dive and pocketing the eye. Instead because some people were too spammy that eye would get lost to the wind and given how dependant DRGs kit is on life of the dragon phases you'd just tank your rotation if you made this mistake.

SO the fix was. implement a 1 second delay between triggering high jump and mirage dive being active. BUT then this also had ANOTHER unintended issue where certain fights, namely Dragonsongs Reprise had a phase where you had exactly enough time to Jump at the start of the phase and then jump again at the end with miliseconds of time to land mirage dive and gain an eye. BUT because of the 1 second delay of high jump switching over to mirage dive. This was now impossible. So SE said WELP. WE TRIED. and abolished the change all together xD Good times.

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Originally Posted by Reldhir

As to the chap that said DRG has no bloat. Currently the DRG 2min window is jam packed to the brim.

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Not just Dragoon. Dancer, which is a job that I don't think there's any bloat other than buttons that could transform into other buttons and yet their 2min windows are not just full to the brim, but sometimes depending on RNG, you may even leave the burst phase with unspent resources or procs. Ninja's window is also completely full.

For more 'toys' to be added, they would have to push something out of the 2min meta, which might be optimal, but doesn't necessarily feels good to do so. Instead, they could add more complexity to the "not 2min meta" phases, because they are bland as unseasoned boiled chicken for many jobs.

DNC and NIN are perfect examples of jobs that have the opposing problem that lead to the same situation

DNC needs to have restrictions on how long it can hold resources because right now you just build up for 2 minutes then dump in the burst. NIN meanwhile bends its entire rotation around CD’s that have a 2 minute CD so can only sit in the burst window

Both have opposite problems but it leads to the god awful non burst window and the god awful “my skill expression is how well can I do 7 double weaves”

What happened to skill expression actually being maintaining a rotation around phases, downtime and mechanics, not “a jobs difficulty is proportional to how many times you double weave”

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What happened to skill expression actually being maintaining a rotation around phases, downtime and mechanics, not “a jobs difficulty is proportional to how many times you double weave”

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In my case it completely shuts me down from playing some jobs at their full capacity, like AST, because my 140ms ping won't allow me to properly double weave anything. Not living in the USA, even a good gaming VPN doesn't help much. I can still complete high end content with clipping my gcd, but sucks to know that I could never achieve the same results as somebody living under 50ms ping no matter how I tried.

Ugh, I just had a realization...

IF DT leveling range gives the 120s party buffs an upgrade that extends their duration for 5 seconds just to add more stuff to the 2min meta.
https://media.tenor.com/DnRnZPHyM7wA...d-dragging.gif

Controversial, I guess, but I don't really mind the 2-minute meta as a concept. IMO all they have to do is add more stuff (like more 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 or 60s cooldown skills) that livens up rotations in between the big burst windows.

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Originally Posted by Reldhir

As to the chap that said DRG has no bloat. Currently the DRG 2min window is jam packed to the brim.

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They're right, DRG has no bloat. DRG being busy is why it's fun. If someone doesn't like busy jobs they have plenty of less busy jobs to choose from.

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Originally Posted by Big-Isaac

DRG is the only job in the entire game I can't comfortably fit into my keybinds.

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DRG has the same number of buttons as DNC, which you have listed as your main job. They are both on the lower end of job abilities at 29, including role actions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._in_endwalker/

To me, DRG's bloat doesn't come from the number of buttons, but how redundant some of them are. Like it has 4 buttons (Life Surge, Lance Charge, Dragon Sight, and Battle Litany -- 5 if you want to include getting the Power Surge buff off Disembowel/Sonic Thrust) that are just damage buff buttons. Surely some of them could be consolidated to make room for more jump, other attacks or something.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

They're right, DRG has no bloat. DRG being busy is why it's fun. If someone doesn't like busy jobs they have plenty of less busy jobs to choose from.]

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Agree to disagree about the bloat? lol Also the implication that I'm saying DRG is unfun is silly. This post is about a wishlist. I enjoy DRG as it is, I like to think I'm even half decent at it. Would I like changes to it? Yeah! hence the wishlist xD but it's just that. A wishlist. There's no need to grumpos tell people to gtfo if they don't like the job. That's totally missing the point of this tread rofl.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

To me, DRG's bloat doesn't come from the number of buttons, but how redundant some of them are. Like it has 4 buttons (Life Surge, Lance Charge, Dragon Sight, and Battle Litany -- 5 if you want to include getting the Power Surge buff off Disembowel/Sonic Thrust) that are just damage buff buttons. Surely some of them could be consolidated to make room for more jump, other attacks or something.

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(^ This) Redundant like Lance Charge xD (It's just Dragon Sight without the extra goodies xD) So we should pick a couple and lose the rest xD (I personally would nominate losing Lance Charge and Life Surge) Adding more Jumps or interesting skills in lieu of removing those boring ones would be fantastic.