A new tactic for the dissatisfied

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

So I am using the standalone right ? And according to you because I have the standalone I dont have steam ?

I'm sorry but what kind of take is this

You can have the standalone, AND STEAM for other games, you literally make no sense

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That's not what I said at all.

I know you love to twist my words because you can't stand that I'm not a fellow FFXIV hater but this one was a doozy.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That's not what I said at all.

I know you love to twist my words because you can't stand that I'm not a fellow FFXIV hater but this one was a doozy.

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Then what's your point?

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A PC player who doesn't use Steam or GOG is generally going to lack that catalog of games ready to play or at least install on a moment's whim. They're a lot more likely to stick with a game because they don't have the same ease of access to multiple games.

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This is completely irrelevant unless you think most people who use the SE client doesn't have Steam ?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That's not what I said at all.

I know you love to twist my words because you can't stand that I'm not a fellow FFXIV hater but this one was a doozy.

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Then I'm open to understanding your point, because I really dont, you are implying that people on steam play games differently right, that's fine per say yeah if that's what you think ?

but what about it is different than someone playing standalone ? people on standalone also play steam games, the only way you could sort of make sense about what you're saying is if you are implying that people on standalone dont have steam, which lets be honest here is absolutely ridiculous

also the little "i'm not a fellow ffxiv hater" comment to try and make yourself look like a victim was a bit comical, i dont care about you being a hater or not, however i care if you try and make a point agaisnt something I say that makes absolutely no sense, which is the case here.

I will say it again for good measure

If your thinking is that steam players play differently, which seems to be what you think, I accept your opinion, that's absolutely fine

Then you mention :

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The ones that are the heaviest Steam users are constantly jumping from game to game. Why? Because there's a massive catalog of games to try out at their fingertips and they don't want to chance missing out on stumbling across that one game they'll think is the greatest ever.

A PC player who doesn't use Steam or GOG is generally going to lack that catalog of games ready to play or at least install on a moment's whim. They're a lot more likely to stick with a game because they don't have the same ease of access to multiple games.

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Which means you are talking about standalone players

You are directly implying with those sentences that standalone users dont use steam (?) and stick to one game, I just want you to understand how ridiculous of a take that is to think that would be the case

To this day I still don't understand why anyone uses steam as an argument (either for or against the game).
Every conversation turns into excuses as to why steam works or doesn't work for whatever argument.
We don't know any answers to these questions so please, stop using it as an argument. It's dumb.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Then I'm open to understanding your point, because I really dont, you are implying that people on steam play games differently right, that's fine per say yeah if that's what you think ?

but what about it is different than someone playing standalone ? people on standalone also play steam games, the only way you could sort of make sense about what you're saying is if you are implying that people on standalone dont have steam, which lets be honest here is absolutely ridiculous

also the little "i'm not a fellow ffxiv hater" comment to try and make yourself look like a victim was a bit comical, i dont care about you being a hater or not, however i care if you try and make a point agaisnt something I say that makes absolutely no sense, which is the case here.

I will say it again for good measure

If your thinking is that steam players play differently, which seems to be what you think, I accept your opinion, that's absolutely fine

Then you mention :



Which means you are talking about standalone players

You are directly implying with those sentences that standalone users dont use steam (?) and stick to one game, I just want you to understand how ridiculous of a take that is to think that would be the case

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You are inferring something that I am not implying at all.

You seem to think that I'm talking about FFXIV players specifically. I'm not. I'm talking about all my friends across all games, regardless of whether or not they are playing FFXIV.

It is a difference I see in those who are heavy Steam users in general, regardless of whether or not they play FFXIV and regardless of whether they use Steam for their platform if they do, compared to those I know who do not use Steam but are on PC. Like you, I use the PC version of FFXIV but I also use Steam for other games (hence my comments elsewhere about how someone would think I don't play anything but Cities: Skiylines and Darkest Dungeon if they were monitoring my Steam activity).

I'm not pulling the victim card. If there's a victim here, it's you and you're doing it to yourself with your constant negative narrative. That's an unhealthy mindset to plant yourself in. But it's also your choice to do it.

And right on schedule, there's Titanmen on your heels. I'm starting to wonder if a couple of people around here are right and you two really are one and the same.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

This is completely irrelevant unless you think most people who use the SE client doesn't have Steam ?

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Japan exists and a good chunk of its gamers are using PCs even if consoles still account for the majority.

Steam is still new there and having a difficult time catching on because JP players don't like the dark interface and because Steam is pricing things in US Dollars for now.

Do I believe that in NA and EU most PC gamers, regardless of their FFXIV status, don't have Steam? I genuinely don't know but likely most do use Steam. That doesn't mean there isn't a sizeable number that won't use it for a variety of reasons.

Regardless, I don't see how that is supposed to change what I said about my personal experience with those who use Steam and those who don't. As I said, the heavy users I know jump from game to game and those that also play FFXIV tend to only play for about a month when a major patch is newly released before switching to other games, then returning to FFXIV when another major patch is released.

If your personal experience is different, then it's different.

As I said the chart is meaningless without something to compare it against showing that the activity is not normal.

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Originally Posted by ChonkGoblinSuprem

Touch. Some. Grass.

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I'm in Arizona. We don't have grass to touch. Can someone mow their lawn and mail me some grass?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You are inferring something that I am not implying at all.

You seem to think that I'm talking about FFXIV players specifically. I'm not. I'm talking about all my friends across all games, regardless of whether or not they are playing FFXIV.

It is a difference I see in those who are heavy Steam users in general, regardless of whether or not they play FFXIV and regardless of whether they use Steam for their platform if they do, compared to those I know who do not use Steam but are on PC. Like you, I use the PC version of FFXIV but I also use Steam for other games (hence my comments elsewhere about how someone would think I don't play anything but Cities: Skiylines and Darkest Dungeon if they were monitoring my Steam activity).

I'm not pulling the victim card. If there's a victim here, it's you and you're doing it to yourself with your constant negative narrative. That's an unhealthy mindset to plant yourself in. But it's also your choice to do it.

And right on schedule, there's Titanmen on your heels. I'm starting to wonder if a couple of people around here are right and you two really are one and the same.

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1st of all, I aint dealing with your weird paranoia of seeing Titanmen everywhere, I aint a psychologist nor a psychiatrist, my alt accounts are very well visible, the name of the character always has the same ending to it, I have absolutely nothing to hide.

As for the actual claim, who cares about other games, this is about FFXIV and what you implied is exactly what I mentioned earlier, there is no misunderstanding to it, your point made absolutely 0 sense and now you are trying to talk to me about "my negativity" and literally going on about other topics because you know what you said made absolutely no sense.

Steam/Standalone are the same kind of players.

Burden is on you to show evidence since you are so insistent on it being different, I'll wait.

until then

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Why would steam players behave differently than non-steam players?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

So you just claim steam player base behaves very differently without source, got it.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

As for the actual claim, who cares about other games, this is about FFXIV and what you implied is exactly what I mentioned earlier, there is no misunderstanding to it, your point made absolutely 0 sense and now you are trying to talk to me about "my negativity" and literally going on about other topics because you know what you said made absolutely no sense.

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Because greater access to games will change what players choose to play and how often.

That shouldn't be difficult to figure out.

We can sit here and argue this out for the next decade but short of SE releasing active player counts by platform, neither side of the discussion has proof of anything other than the number of players logging into FFXIV through Steam has changed since Endwalker released.

I've pointed out reasons why I believe those numbers may not be an accurate sampling compared to the actual numbers for this game. The changes in the Lucky Bancho active character census numbers likewise don't agree with the Steam numbers.

You don't have any proof that those who don't log into FFXIV via Steam have the same gaming habits as those who do anymore than I have proof that they don't. Neither side has proof of anything here other than fewer players are logging to FFXIV via Steam now than when Endwalker launched.

You can sit there screaming "the sky is falling!" as much as you want but it's not going to change anything. SE has far more accurate data on the numbers than any player will ever have. They're going to know what the turnover has been, and how it compared to prior expansions. They're going to know what demographic is having the biggest impact on those numbers based on what content is seeing a larger drop in participation compared to the drops that occurred in previous expansions. They will react to anything out of the ordinary in whatever fashion makes the best business sense to them, which may mean they do nothing at all.

Just for the heck of it, I went to Steam to check the user reviews for Endwalker. If so many users of the Steam client have stopped playing because they feel the expansion is bad, I was expecting to see a fairly large number of negative reviews showing up in their graphs over the last few months.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...637eae2632.png

We see the review bombing from the expansion start due to the log in queues then the negative reviews swiftly disappear.

Out of the last 100 reviews submitted to Steam (reaching back to December of last year), 77 are positive.

Of the 23 negative, it's a mix of reasons with the largest percentage complaining about trying to purchase the game and play for the first time followed by some of the same issues that have been brought up in the forums. Then there are the random Not Recommended reviews with comments that include "still waiting on the sex update" and "ass" (seriously, feel free to see for yourself).

If we look at the numbers going all that back to launch, there are 1317 reviews with 205 of them Not Recommended (again, mostly the review bombs because of the login problems).

Considering the discussions we've had here in recent weeks about how people usually only leave feedback when they're unhappy, doesn't it seem strange that 84% of reviews are positive during a period when the game has allegedly lost 70% of its players because the game sucks?

Or could it be that the drop isn't because players are unhappy but because most of them are just following normal MMORPG patterns and taking a break to play some of the other high profile titles that have been released in recent months?

We can't know short of tracking every single one of those players down and getting them to tell us why they are not currently playing.

Anyway, there's some proof that the number of players unhappy with the game aren't as high as some claim, coming from the same source that is supposedly showing players are unhappy and quitting. We're all free to interpret however we want. It still makes no difference.

SE is going to do what they want with the game.

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We can sit here and argue this out for the next decade but short of SE releasing active player counts by platform, neither side of the discussion has proof of anything other than the number of players logging into FFXIV through Steam has changed since Endwalker released.

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Except you are the one pretending that they are different, the burden is actually on you, not me, gamers are gamers, be it on steam or any other pc platform, you can stop with that, it makes no sense.

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You don't have any proof that those who don't log into FFXIV via Steam have the same gaming habits as those who do anymore than I have proof that they don't. Neither side has proof of anything here other than fewer players are logging to FFXIV via Steam now than when Endwalker launched

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Once again, burden is on you, because it makes absolutely 0 sense, gamers are gamers.

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Just for the heck of it, I went to Steam to check the user reviews for Endwalker. If so many users of the Steam client have stopped playing because they feel the expansion is bad, I was expecting to see a fairly large number of negative reviews showing up in their graphs over the last few months.

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Really dude ? Lol, going by reviews now ? talk about grasping for straws

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Anyway, there's some proof that the number of players unhappy with the game aren't as high as some claim, coming from the same source that is supposedly showing players are unhappy and quitting. We're all free to interpret however we want. It still makes no difference.

SE is going to do what they want with the game.

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Thanks, the steam chart numbers prove otherwise, but you can have your echo chamber of toxic positivity if you want, that's fine with me, I will respond to it and prove you wrong with actual statistics though, something you are unable to provide because you have nothing to back your claims.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Burden is on you to show evidence since you are so insistent on it being different, I'll wait.

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No, actually.

When you introduce evidence to support your argument, the burden of proof is on you to show that it's true.

Not only did the Steam numbers NOT drop 70%, not only do the Steam numbers apples-to-apples against this same point in the last expansion NOT show a massive decline, but you've yet to prove to anyone that the Steam numbers ARE applicable to the entire playerbase. The onus/burden is actually upon you, attempting to use that statistic to bolster your argument, to show that the statistic is valid to the argument and case you're presenting. It's not on others.

This would be like someone saying that aliens exist and pointing to UFO stories as proof of it, then when people suggest the stories may not be accurate, demanding that they debunk every last UFO story ever told. The onus is on you to prove that the UFO stories are true, not on others to prove they are false.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

I aint doing that again Renathras. Lol. Nope. I am not wasting my time.

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Translation: I know you're right, Renathras, and I can't prove you wrong, so I'm going to pretend I did and hope no one calls my bluff.

Doesn't change the fact - YOU have to prove the Steam numbers are valid to your interpretation. If you cannot, then your argument BASED ON THAT is invalid. What is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and you've provided no evidence that the Steam numbers are representative of the playerbase at large.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

You said you had evidence to prove steam numbers are not indicative of total player numbers. That is a claim you made, not anyone else. You didnt just doubt the validity of the numbers presented, you went and made your own claim on top of it. And let me tell you, if you actually had that evidence it would be the easiest dunk on your haters in the world. You could make them look like absolute fools. Except you cant because you dont have that evidence.

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Yeah, but I don't need to.

You make an assertion, you have to support it when people point out it may not hold.

You can't demand THEY prove it when it's your case to make.

I'll note you have yet to ask someone to prove that they are, so you've defeated your own argument.

I also didn't say that, btw, but...that's in the details so doesn't matter. :)

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

You sound like a broken record with your 70% drop. It's easy to find the post from last year where that claim was made. Spoiler, it was found by isolating a few month period after EW launch.

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I sound like a broken record because people keep trying to make this claim even though it's been debunked over and over again.

Though, I am honestly getting tired of being the one to do it. Might let someone else go after the people being wrong on the internet for a while.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

No, actually.

When you introduce evidence to support your argument, the burden of proof is on you to show that it's true.

Not only did the Steam numbers NOT drop 70%, not only do the Steam numbers apples-to-apples against this same point in the last expansion NOT show a massive decline, but you've yet to prove to anyone that the Steam numbers ARE applicable to the entire playerbase. The onus/burden is actually upon you, attempting to use that statistic to bolster your argument, to show that the statistic is valid to the argument and case you're presenting. It's not on others.

This would be like someone saying that aliens exist and pointing to UFO stories as proof of it, then when people suggest the stories may not be accurate, demanding that they debunk every last UFO story ever told. The onus is on you to prove that the UFO stories are true, not on others to prove they are false.

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I aint doing that again Renathras. Lol. Nope. I am not wasting my time.

Extremist elements of FFXIV's community are notorious for stalking and sending credible threats to individuals critical of the game, particularly if those criticisms are related to the story and certain characters. So I don't doubt that many players opt to just leave silently rather than risk posting a negative review on a platform that potentially allows stalkers to track them down in other online communities.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Not only did the Steam numbers NOT drop 70%, not only do the Steam numbers apples-to-apples against this same point in the last expansion NOT show a massive decline, but you've yet to prove to anyone that the Steam numbers ARE applicable to the entire playerbase. The onus/burden is actually upon you, attempting to use that statistic to bolster your argument, to show that the statistic is valid to the argument and case you're presenting. It's not on others.

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You said you had evidence to prove steam numbers are not indicative of total player numbers. That is a claim you made, not anyone else. You didnt just doubt the validity of the numbers presented, you went and made your own claim on top of it. And let me tell you, if you actually had that evidence it would be the easiest dunk on your haters in the world. You could make them look like absolute fools. Except you cant because you dont have that evidence.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

No, actually.

When you introduce evidence to support your argument, the burden of proof is on you to show that it's true.

Not only did the Steam numbers NOT drop 70%, not only do the Steam numbers apples-to-apples against this same point in the last expansion NOT show a massive decline, but you've yet to prove to anyone that the Steam numbers ARE applicable to the entire playerbase. The onus/burden is actually upon you, attempting to use that statistic to bolster your argument, to show that the statistic is valid to the argument and case you're presenting. It's not on others.

This would be like someone saying that aliens exist and pointing to UFO stories as proof of it, then when people suggest the stories may not be accurate, demanding that they debunk every last UFO story ever told. The onus is on you to prove that the UFO stories are true, not on others to prove they are false.

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You sound like a broken record with your 70% drop. It's easy to find the post from last year where that claim was made. Spoiler, it was found by isolating a few month period after EW launch.

The Steam numbers are biased. They are not some kind of random sample that you can extrapolate. Deal with it, nerds. This is Stats 101 ffs.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

You said you had evidence to prove steam numbers are not indicative of total player numbers. That is a claim you made, not anyone else. You didnt just doubt the validity of the numbers presented, you went and made your own claim on top of it. And let me tell you, if you actually had that evidence it would be the easiest dunk on your haters in the world. You could make them look like absolute fools. Except you cant because you dont have that evidence.

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Pretty much, that's why I'm not going to justify or repeat myself again, it's useless really, they wont listen nor try and prove me wrong with actual facts or evidence of their claim lol.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Pretty much, that's why I'm not going to justify or repeat myself again, it's useless really, they wont listen nor try and prove me wrong with actual facts or evidence of their claim lol.

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They tend to make claims without any sources or evidence to back up there claims then tells others to provide sources. Then when sources are provided that they don't like or agree with it's not considered good enough.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

They tend to make claims without any sources or evidence to back up there claims then tells others to provide sources. Then when sources are provided that they don't like or agree with it's not considered good enough.

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EDIT: NVM I'm dumb.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

They haven't provided evidence of there claims that steam players play the game differently and saying the player drop on steam doesn't mean anything. But provided no links or evidence to prove it and are asking others for evidence of things. Others have provided links and evidence while there just making claims with no backing.

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Still out of posts from yesterday. I'm going to chalk up my dumb take above to not having had coffee this morning. Ignore me, I can't disagree with you lol.

[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

You can disagree with him or dislike him as a poster, but this is very selective observation here lol.

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They haven't provided evidence of there claims that steam players play the game differently and saying the player drop on steam doesn't mean anything. But provided no links or evidence to prove it and are asking others for evidence of things. Others have provided links and evidence while there just making claims with no backing.

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Still out of posts from yesterday. I'm going to chalk up my dumb take above to not having had coffee this morning. Ignore me, I can't disagree with you lol.

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Its ok :)

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

They haven't provided evidence of there claims that steam players play the game differently and saying the player drop on steam doesn't mean anything. But provided no links or evidence to prove it and are asking others for evidence of things. Others have provided links and evidence while there just making claims with no backing.

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Pretty much, I'm still waiting on either Jojoya or Renathras to give me evidence that steam players play differently than Standalone players, and by evidence, I dont mean "my friends do this" I mean actual evidence.

I have a feeling I'll wait for a very long time, I have done my part and showed evidence of my claim, let's see theirs.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Pretty much, I'm still waiting on either Jojoya or Renathras to give me evidence that steam players play differently than Standalone players, and by evidence, I dont mean "my friends do this" I mean actual evidence.

I have a feeling I'll wait for a very long time, I have done my part and showed evidence of my claim, let's see theirs.

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I am also waiting for ren to provide me evidence that people like the current healers after I provided him evidence of crashing job satisfaction after the 5.0 changes

So far all I’ve got is “that data is out of date”

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I am also waiting for ren to provide me evidence that people like the current healers after I provided him evidence of crashing job satisfaction after the 5.0 changes

So far all I’ve got is “that data is out of date”

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Sure seems like Ren has a lot of "data" to show, I will be waiting for it since he seems to have all of it and he seems to know it better than us and others

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Pretty much, I'm still waiting on either Jojoya or Renathras to give me evidence that steam players play differently than Standalone players, and by evidence, I dont mean "my friends do this" I mean actual evidence.

I have a feeling I'll wait for a very long time, I have done my part and showed evidence of my claim, let's see theirs.

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They wear a Moogle head. Never take seriously anyone who uses a Moogle or Fat Chocobo head.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Except you are the one pretending that they are different, the burden is actually on you, not me, gamers are gamers, be it on steam or any other pc platform, you can stop with that, it makes no sense.

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I think I can rest my case now.

Not everyone who plays considers themselves a gamer, nor does everyone who considers themselves a gamer play the same way.

Need evidence? No need to look any farther than these forums and even in this thread.

You can stop with your own nonsense now.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Pretty much, I'm still waiting on either Jojoya or Renathras to give me evidence that steam players play differently than Standalone players, and by evidence, I dont mean "my friends do this" I mean actual evidence.

I have a feeling I'll wait for a very long time, I have done my part and showed evidence of my claim, let's see theirs.

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Could you link back to your proof that all gamers are the same? I can't seem to find it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I think I can rest my case now.

Not everyone who plays considers themselves a gamer, nor does everyone who considers themselves a gamer play the same way.

Need evidence? No need to look any farther than these forums and even in this thread.

You can stop with your own nonsense now.

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It's ok dont worry, I can rest my case too with this :

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Originally Posted by Saraide

So you just claim steam player base behaves very differently without source, got it.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Let's face it, even if there is a decent sized portion of the game's population that is wants to see improvements, even if that entire group banded together and created one mega petition, nothing would come of it.

People are rarely interested in making the effort to prevent issues from arising, but when the issues has become a problem, often there's motivation.

I understand that there's a lot of impassioned people who truly want to see improvements, so this might be hard, but this is one of the faster remedies. Give up hoping for change, give up asking for change. Leave things be, and encourage them to stay the same and continue down the path they're continuing. The faster you allow the situation to fester the faster you'll get your results of change when the issues you find troublesome reach the point where they can no longer be ignored.

I don't personally hate the game, but there's a lot of improvements I'd like that I know have no chance of ever being added to the game as it stands currently. Keep playing and doing whatever you enjoy in the game or quit if there's nothing left for you, while supporting the game's current path. Hope for the worst and encourage it because the sooner it occurs the sooner you'll see change.

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I feel like it would take them to not make savage content or to install an easy anti cheat to really fumble this game cuz savage and modding are the two big pillars that keep this game going during patches... I doubt this game will suffer any major player lose for the years to come but that's just me guessing.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It's ok dont worry, I can rest my case too with this :

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But Saraide didn't provide any sources prove that the player base behaves the same whether Steam or standalone.

Double standard much?

Both sides can be convinced they're right but neither will ever be able to provide proof. Why?

Because SE doesn't release demographic information for FFXIV. They also don't release active player counts.

Here's a link to an article with some general statistics across the gaming industry, though not all of what they reference is specific to 2023:

https://playtoday.co/blog/stats/gamer-demographics/

Here's some Steam statistics as of 2022.

https://sidetrain.com/guides/steam-u...hic-statistics

I could get a brief glance at the 2023 from Statista.com before a pop-up window blocks them because of a paywall.

https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1...r-share-by-age
https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1...hare-by-gender

If I can remember correctly, age demographics were roughly 5% 18-19, 33% 20-29, 34% 30-39, 20% 40-49 with the remainder over 50. US user by gender was about 80% male to 20% female (compared to the PlayToday international numbers of 70% male to 30% female).

The best I can find for demographics for FFXIV come from a quoted 2022 NHK poll (NHK is Japan's public media organization).

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According to a poll by NHK, the demographics of people who play FFXIV are 49.2% female, 50.8% male.

Age groups are as follows:
~19 years old: 3.7%
20-29: 38.2%
30-39: 39.7%
40-49: 15.5%
50-59: 2.6%
60+: 0.4%

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While the age groups more or less align with Steam, the gender split does not.

So it appears that Steam users are 70/30 male to female and PS4/5 users 59/41 male to female. If those numbers are assumed to be representative of those using those platforms to play FFXIV as well, what is left to explain how FFXIV gets to 51/49 male to female? The standalone PC group. That would have to be predominantly female to get the gender ratio to match what is reported for the game.

Do you believe both genders are going to have the same gaming habits by age considering women are still generally burdened with most of the child raising and household management duties?

Everyone can drag their proof out. None of it means anything because we'll are still making assumptions that may or may not be accurate. Only SE knows what is happening and they're not talking.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But Saraide didn't provide any sources prove that the player base behaves the same whether Steam or standalone.

Double standard much?

Both sides can be convinced they're right but neither will ever be able to provide proof. Why?

Because SE doesn't release demographic information for FFXIV. They also don't release active player counts.

Here's a link to an article with some general statistics across the gaming industry, though not all of what they reference is specific to 2023:

https://playtoday.co/blog/stats/gamer-demographics/

Here's some Steam statistics as of 2022.

https://sidetrain.com/guides/steam-u...hic-statistics

I could get a brief glance at the 2023 from Statista.com before a pop-up window blocks them because of a paywall.

https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1...r-share-by-age
https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1...hare-by-gender

If I can remember correctly, age demographics were roughly 5% 18-19, 33% 20-29, 34% 30-39, 20% 40-49 with the remainder over 50. US user by gender was about 80% male to 20% female (compared to the PlayToday international numbers of 70% male to 30% female).

The best I can find for demographics for FFXIV come from a quoted 2022 NHK poll (NHK is Japan's public media organization).



While the age groups more or less align with Steam, the gender split does not.

So it appears that Steam users are 70/30 male to female and PS4/5 users 59/41 male to female. If those numbers are assumed to be representative of those using those platforms to play FFXIV as well, what is left to explain how FFXIV gets to 51/49 male to female? The standalone PC group. That would have to be predominantly female to get the gender ratio to match what is reported for the game.

Do you believe both genders are going to have the same gaming habits by age considering women are still generally burdened with most of the child raising and household management duties?

Everyone can drag their proof out. None of it means anything because we'll are still making assumptions that may or may not be accurate. Only SE knows what is happening and they're not talking.

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what the actual hell are you talking about age ranges LOL and what does this have to do with steam users playing games differently than standalone users ?

just stop lmao, what a waste of time

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But Saraide didn't provide any sources prove that the player base behaves the same whether Steam or standalone.

Double standard much?

Both sides can be convinced they're right but neither will ever be able to provide proof. Why?

Because SE doesn't release demographic information for FFXIV. They also don't release active player counts.

Here's a link to an article with some general statistics across the gaming industry, though not all of what they reference is specific to 2023:

https://playtoday.co/blog/stats/gamer-demographics/

Here's some Steam statistics as of 2022.

https://sidetrain.com/guides/steam-u...hic-statistics

I could get a brief glance at the 2023 from Statista.com before a pop-up window blocks them because of a paywall.

https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1...r-share-by-age
https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1...hare-by-gender

If I can remember correctly, age demographics were roughly 5% 18-19, 33% 20-29, 34% 30-39, 20% 40-49 with the remainder over 50. US user by gender was about 80% male to 20% female (compared to the PlayToday international numbers of 70% male to 30% female).

The best I can find for demographics for FFXIV come from a quoted 2022 NHK poll (NHK is Japan's public media organization).



While the age groups more or less align with Steam, the gender split does not.

So it appears that Steam users are 70/30 male to female and PS4/5 users 59/41 male to female. If those numbers are assumed to be representative of those using those platforms to play FFXIV as well, what is left to explain how FFXIV gets to 51/49 male to female? The standalone PC group. That would have to be predominantly female to get the gender ratio to match what is reported for the game.

Do you believe both genders are going to have the same gaming habits by age considering women are still generally burdened with most of the child raising and household management duties?

Everyone can drag their proof out. None of it means anything because we'll are still making assumptions that may or may not be accurate. Only SE knows what is happening and they're not talking.

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You start by saying both sides can be right and say there's no way of confirming who is, then proceed to try anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But Saraide didn't provide any sources prove that the player base behaves the same whether Steam or standalone.

Double standard much?

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Yes, very much. It doesn't matter what evidence you present, none of it will be taken seriously. Meanwhile, they can present no evidence and believe that everyone must agree to them and anyone who does not has to prove the negative.

Worse, many forget when they ARE given evidence, or ignore it. All but one of the claims in this thread I provided evidence to in past discussions, yet people bring them up insisting it never happened. They disagreed with what was presented, and so concluded nothing was presented.

But keep up the good fight. I honestly don't get why some people are so ideologically consumed that they think that way, but hey, it is what it is. You've already been throw into the box with me as persona non grata, though, so don't expect them to listen.

I don't know how all the steam stuff works for this game. So apologies for my ignorance. But I want to ask, is it at all possible that the population drop in a particular category like Steam could also just be in part players swapping over to the Windows version of the game? Like, I'm not sure if QuickLauncher works with Steam or not and if that could be impacting numbers.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

snip

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That wall of text is so riddled with so many unjustifiable assumptions that it's essentially just nonsense. You seriously should have just stopped at "Both Sides", because this entire screed made your position seem substantially weaker.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I don't know how all the steam stuff works for this game. So apologies for my ignorance. But I want to ask, is it at all possible that the population drop in a particular category like Steam could also just be in part players swapping over to the Windows version of the game? Like, I'm not sure if QuickLauncher works with Steam or not and if that could be impacting numbers.

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Quicklauncher works with Steam.

Afaik it's not possible to share or transfer an account between the PC and Steam version, so it's very unlikely that any large number of people are going out of their way to swap versions.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

what the actual hell are you talking about age ranges LOL and what does this have to do with steam users playing games differently than standalone users ?

just stop lmao, what a waste of time

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"I don't care to acknowledge your sources because they don't support my head canon that I can't provide any proof for".

Got it.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

You start by saying both sides can be right and say there's no way of confirming who is, then proceed to try anyways.

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I didn't say both sides can be right. Check your reading comprehension.

They kept bugging me for sources that support what I believe, so I gave them some sources.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

That wall of text is so riddled with so many unjustifiable assumptions that it's essentially just nonsense. You seriously should have just stopped at "Both Sides", because this entire screed made your position seem substantially weaker.



Quicklauncher works with Steam.

Afaik it's not possible to share or transfer an account between the PC and Steam version, so it's very unlikely that any large number of people are going out of their way to swap versions.

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"Gamers are gamers" is a statement that is nothing but a bunch of unjustifiable assumptions and yet you guys seem happy to present that as "proof" for your side.

There goes those double standards again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I didn't say both sides can be right. Check your reading comprehension.

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You said both sides can be convinced they're right but can't prove it due to there being no proof.
If you didn't mean it as both can be right, then your own argument works against you in this case.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Worse, many forget when they ARE given evidence, or ignore it. All but one of the claims in this thread I provided evidence to in past discussions, yet people bring them up insisting it never happened. They disagreed with what was presented, and so concluded nothing was presented.

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To be fair, a ton of people have already told you they don't read your posts because it's needlessly long.

I actually skip over most of your posts myself. That's why this reply is so much later then my other post. I'm home now and decided I'd read the full thread for fun.

My opinion on all this. We have no concrete stats so why argue with others about your point of view? People already have their mind set and there's no real proof to change anyone's mind.
If you're enjoying the game, why does it matter that someone else doesn't? Same vice versa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But Saraide didn't provide any sources prove that the player base behaves the same whether Steam or standalone.

Double standard much?

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No, my first post in this discussion was asking renathras for source on their claim that steam players behave differently than non-steam players. Which they failed to provide of course but pretended that they could. I wish they had because I'm pretty tired of player count arguments. If you or anyone else managed to actually shut it down with real evidence I would be grateful. Because no one genuinely cares about player numbers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Let's face it, even if there is a decent sized portion of the game's population that is wants to see improvements, even if that entire group banded together and created one mega petition, nothing would come of it.

People are rarely interested in making the effort to prevent issues from arising, but when the issues has become a problem, often there's motivation.

I understand that there's a lot of impassioned people who truly want to see improvements, so this might be hard, but this is one of the faster remedies. Give up hoping for change, give up asking for change. Leave things be, and encourage them to stay the same and continue down the path they're continuing. The faster you allow the situation to fester the faster you'll get your results of change when the issues you find troublesome reach the point where they can no longer be ignored.

I don't personally hate the game, but there's a lot of improvements I'd like that I know have no chance of ever being added to the game as it stands currently. Keep playing and doing whatever you enjoy in the game or quit if there's nothing left for you, while supporting the game's current path. Hope for the worst and encourage it because the sooner it occurs the sooner you'll see change.

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Pretty sure it was this exact opposite attitude that fixed the game in 1.0 so why would I suddenly now stop trying. What do u personally gain from telling ppl to give up hope? Is it some inconvenience to you? Then u should leave

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Originally Posted by Saraide

No, my first post in this discussion was asking renathras for source on their claim that steam players behave differently than non-steam players. Which they failed to provide of course but pretended that they could. I wish they had because I'm pretty tired of player count arguments. If you or anyone else managed to actually shut it down with real evidence I would be grateful. Because no one genuinely cares about player numbers.

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It's just conjecture on your part that Steam players don't behave differently from non-Steam players. You offer no evidence to prove that. Why should someone else be required to offer evidence that they do if you won't offer evidence on your side that they don't?

"Gamers are gamers" gets tossed around. Did anyone stop to consider that not everyone who plays an online game considers themselves to be a gamer? The term means different things to different people.

Even among those who consider themselves gamers, there will be differences. One might be a young adult just out of high school with plenty of time on their hands and their parents credit card in hand while another could be in their mid 30s working 50 hours a week with 4 kids and a huge mortgage. Are those two going to have the same playing habits? Not likely.

Clearly there are some who care about player numbers because the question has frequently come up in every MMORPG I've played over the years and people start arguing over it.

But I would agree that it's not something anyone should care about. The only meaningful thing is if you're having fun and feel like your money has been well spent.

So, I'm having fun in FFXIV and I feel like my money is being well spent. What about you?

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

The dissatisfied are the severe minority. They think that they're bigger than they are, as they cannot fathom that most players are happy with the game.

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Well yeah the dissatisfied will become a minority and then only like 5000 people who are happy with nothing to do except mod the game with butt ugly face mods and afk in limsa or go to clubs will be playing

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Pretty sure it was this exact opposite attitude that fixed the game in 1.0 so why would I suddenly now stop trying. What do u personally gain from telling ppl to give up hope? Is it some inconvenience to you? Then u should leave

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Attitudes were different back then weren't they? I've seen videos discussing 1.0. It was a dumpster fire, and there was no debate over that.

You have some crowds that believe the game is great, and some that don't right now. This is an idea aimed at remedying that. Instead of arguing and fighting, see where things go, let the experience of one side sink in completely.