2.0 Teleportation and you!

This kind of questioning is so stupid.
Why make transportation difficult?

When i'm going to kill a NM, or clear a dungeon i dont want to worry about HOW i'm getting there.
Or if i want to level i need to waste 30min so i can get to the camp.
That's just dumb.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

This kind of questioning is so stupid.
Why make transportation difficult?

When i'm going to kill a NM, or clear a dungeon i dont want to worry about HOW i'm getting there.
Or if i want to level i need to waste 30min so i can get to the camp.
That's just dumb.

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That's cool. ...I do want to worry about how to get there. I'd be surprised if it ever took you 30 minutes. I'd enjoy taking 10 or 15.
Hell, in the case of an NM, that feels exactly like it ought to be part of the fun.

I don't think either side is alone in their wants though. And both sides wanted positions will, with variable extent, hurt the other. I guess it is a tough one.

Edit: I guess I am assuming that the 2.0 world will be that much more impressive though. Riding repeatedly from city to a distant camp each time, rather than out into the wilderness, would indeed get dull soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Airget

What amuses me about all this Teleportation talk/change is people are seriously asking for a time sink when getting to events. They don't want traveling to be as easy but by doing that you are pretty much adding 10-15 time sinks based on where you go in a wide variety so you are pretty much saying "Please SE give us a time sink which will add up to hundreds of hours of "gameplay" over the years"

Teleporting is a tool to make traveling easier to Casuals and those without a lot of time on their hands. I always feel that it's the hardcore complaining about this issue or perhaps the ones who have problems getting parties but have a lot of time on their hands. There is no need to change teleportation it's working as intended and allows people to play the actual content rather then spend time within time sinks just to get into events.

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This.

If you folks want this game to succeed, you have to make certain things easy. Travel, leveling, buying things, etc, should not take up the brunt of your playtime.

This is a game and access to your choice of content should be swift and painless. I want to go clear Aurum Vale, not run to Aurum Vale from Gridania.

This isn't making the game easy, it's making it less of a chore. The kind of attitude that supports otherwise is what will make anyone actually willing to try the game out in 2.0 cringe and go back to any other MMO where they can log on and do content without needing to take 15-20m running there and then doing a quest for 10-15m just so they can get there quickly again.

It goes without saying, tying your teleports to a slowly regening resource (regardless of Hamlet because Hamlet is awful) is also very poor design.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Ok I see where you are coming from. Although I would find a similar system extremly easy to exploit in this game...hell it was ultra exploited in Ultima Online itself.

Ultima Online was very freeform and lent itself to players creating there own rules for the most part. MMOs these days will never allow such freedoms because we need to hold the hands of the casual players. On the note of the rune gate system...I would actually kind of like to see this happen.

Just so I could see how fast people exploded on the forums when people were handing out deadly runes.

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Somehow, now I want that system. Haven't played UO, but that sounds pretty awesome, albeit in a slightly masochistic way, some of the time.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

If you folks want this game to succeed, you have to make certain things easy. Travel, leveling, buying things, etc, should not take up the brunt of your playtime.

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Okay, in response to this, let me try to rephrase what I have been trying to say previously in this thread. I will start with a gross generality that I think no-one will disagree with. That being: Nothing in a game should ever directly impede you from enjoying the game, be it the interface, content, or presentation.

Now that we're on the same page. Our differences here are exactly what constitutes an imposition to enjoyment. I fully agree that from the moment you decide "I want to do AV" to the moment you step out of the dungeon, you should be having fun. At the same time, I strongly believe that that the process of getting to AV can and should be part of that fun (I will grant that it most definitely would not be if they took teleports out right now, but that is not my point).

Having captivating, compelling, and interesting travel between events has a lot of positive secondary benefits - which I have mentioned before so I won't go into again - which is why I hasten to defend the idea of a certain level of travelling restrictions. Obviously, as with anything, such restrictions should be tasteful, but as long as any restrictions exist specifically to augment the player's enjoyment of the world itself, we shouldn't take them off the table entirely.

In my opinion, the current teleport system is fine! I was surprised I even got so much freedom to teleport so much~

In my playing experience, I have the choice to decide if I want to finish something quick or if I want to take my time.

-Sometimes I'm playing and I'm starting to get sleepy but I just want to see the next scene of my quest! If it's to a place I've been to a bunch, teleporting there is just alot easier.

-Sometimes I'll be in a party! An example was a few days ago when I had a few of my LS mates help me with my Toto-rak GC quest for the first time. We were all partied up and ready to enter when me and another friend realized we missed a step of the quest! In this case, it'd be really rude to keep everyone waiting, wouldn't it? So we both teleported back to Gridania really quick, got what we needed, TPd back to the nearest camp and then ran over to Toto-Rak. Walking would have taken way too long for a group of people that may not have as much playtime available as me or someone else!

In those situations, I'll teleport close by. It's fast and painless, but I still do keep my anima cost in mind. Sometimes I just don't feel like doing the really long walk somewhere!


However, I also love exploring! I absolutely love going everywhere I can and taking screenshots for my Lodestone blog. :>

-There's absolutely no rush, and I just want to take a nice ride from one place to another while enjoying the BGM and weather effects.

-There's a region I've yet to explore and I want to see all the monsters and landscapes! When I played FFXI I used to really enjoy doing the walk from city to city. I'd even try to figure out the fastest way and record my times to see how long it took me! I remember me and my friends would even race to see who could make it to a city first ^^

At these times, I'd rather walk or take my Goobbue to my destination ^^

I read through some of the thread, and noticed people saying that we should have to earn our TPs to a new place, but don't we already? We already have to touch each crystal individually to register it as a teleport location! Yeah, you could just ask someone to TP you but in the end it's your choice: you can walk there or ask for a TP!

As for the update on having a quest to earn TP and Return: I'm all for it! I definitely don't mind doing a quest to earn something like this! But I'm glad these features will be in 2.0. After all, if you don't want to TP or Return, you don't have to.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

Remove teleport, it ruins the atmosphere of the game and brings it down to WoW-like quest-rushing.

If we had more than 5 areas I'd like to see certain telepoints, but like this..... maybe one in Coerthas? That's it.

I miss the travelling.... has anyone ever used the ship in the past 6 months?

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I use the ship, largely just to daydream while listening to Ghost in the Shell OST's Fish/Silent Cruise though.

Hopefully the issue of only having 5 areas will definitely be one solved in 2.0. I do agree that current teleporting promotes a leve-pickup-leve-pickup monotony, but I do agree with Hulan that if teleporting is done away with there would need to be either increased things to do in a free-roam mindset, or traveling in itself being a bit more interesting. For those who already love traveling, that's great. But many will never consider traveling as fun past the first couple trips because they want to be progressing in at least some manner when doing whatever they're doing, or at least seeing something new in making the trip. But no matter how many little things you add, as long as the game remains almost solely node-based (these regions have mobs, leves, and gathers of your level and no where else will be useful to you at present), for the average player its just a matter of how long it takes for patience to wear thin.

The same can be said for any other aspect of the game, but as it's the only one that doesn't have 'progression' dead-tied to it, it's the one that's hardest to just 'deal with.'

Sagegemini, out of curiosity, do you think FFXIV could implement the UO freeform teleport (rune) system. Just asking if you think it's possible, not the likelihood of their doing it.

I know this thread is about teleportation but I really hope they make it so we have to travel to the cities first before we can take the airship to them.

Part of the most exciting experiences I had in my short time playing [spoiler]FFXI[/spoiler] was traveling to the other city states and Jeuno for the first time.

I still don't get where people think having a system that makes you move through the world is a hinderance.

Then again I never understood the same people who want everything in instanced boxes.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I still don't get where people think having a system that makes you move through the world is a hinderance.

Then again I never understood the same people who want everything in instanced boxes.

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Having people move through the world for exploration or quests is probably not the issue.

Making a group of people spend 15 minutes running back and forth through areas we have been through hundreds of times just to get to repeatable content areas is what many people want to avoid.

We used to have people arguing against teleportation because they were always out of anima. Now we have a way of recharging anima aside from just waiting for it trickle back, so now the argument against teleports seems to be primarily about personal immersion and other people being lazy.

I still don't get where people are bothered so much by what unrelated strangers are doing with their play time.

I play for immersion. I like to explore and run around instead of always teleporting. But if someone doesn't like those same things and it doesn't affect my play time then why should it bother me or anyone else?

So what is your great next idea ? 2.0 Logging in and You!" lets add up some random quests at the logging in screen, where you have to go and read 10 topics in the main forums and fill up some random poll so that people can earn the "Right" to log in into the game......

Damm casuals and their handed down log in powers <.<

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Originally Posted by Mikita

I still don't get where people are bothered so much by what unrelated strangers are doing with their play time.

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Not that I agree with either side, but I just thought I'd point something out. It's not so much people care about how others play the game, it's about features that will influence how the game is designed overall. In example, on paper, the planned content finder should make it much faster to locate a party, and those who wish to meet groups otherwise don't have to use it. The problem arises, however, in that that game may be developed around the content finder, creating a reliance on instanced content, and a lesser importance on world design and exploration. With anima and teleportation it's the same deal; Sure, you don't have to use it, but if it's the main method of travel, features like ships, trains and such may suffer from the developers placing less effort into them, and the world design may not be as interesting or intricate because, hey, everyone just ports everywhere anyway, so why bother?

Now, I'm not saying any of that is definite, and that the developers will think that way, I'm just saying why people are concerned about features like this. Sure, we don't have to use them, but when the game is designed around them, what choice do we have?

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Originally Posted by Jocko

features like ships, trains and such may suffer from the developers placing less effort into them, and the world design may not be as interesting or intricate because, hey, everyone just ports everywhere anyway, so why bother?

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Couldn't say it better myself.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

I still don't get where people are bothered so much by what unrelated strangers are doing with their play time.

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It's not as much that what unrelated strangers are doing bothers me, it's the fact I rarely ever get to see these "Unrelated strangers" amazingly enough most people bonded in MMOs because they had to band together to do stuff, travel included at times. Everytime I see a system that lets people segregate themselves from interacting with people other than their few friends they play with makes the game feel less alive in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Not that I agree with either side, but I just thought I'd point something out. It's not so much people care about how others play the game, it's about features that will influence how the game is designed overall. [snip] I'm just saying why people are concerned about features like this. Sure, we don't have to use them, but when the game is designed around them, what choice do we have?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's not as much that what unrelated strangers are doing bothers me, it's the fact I rarely ever get to see these "Unrelated strangers" amazingly enough most people bonded in MMOs because they had to band together to do stuff, travel included at times. Everytime I see a system that lets people segregate themselves from interacting with people other than their few friends they play with makes the game feel less alive in my opinion.

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Thank you for explaining.

I definitely agree that banding together to accomplish something can be the spark that leads to friendships. Moving together and fighting through a challenge can be a big part of that. The first few nights of Castrum Novum were remarkable in that regard.

But what I don't want to see is SE making transportation for grind-ish or repetitive activities take up a sizable chunk of our play time by removing or severely restricting the teleportation system.

I don't think transportation changes would go very far in making people more friendly or helpful, and less segregated. Having mutual goals requiring cooperation would be much more effective, regardless of how we get there.

Really? This BS anima/Teleportation is bad thread again. If you hate anima so much. Which in place for
casuals. You may as well quit now because your really gonna hate content finder.

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Originally Posted by Haibel

You may as well quit now

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Thanks for the pro-tip but I'll just keep telling the developers what I think would be best for the games development. You know the reason why they made the forums.

Also to be blunt (You obviously didn't read anything at all) this thread is not really about not wanting Anima it's about having a sense of accomplishment and belonging in the game world. Wouldn't it be rad if instead of a zone just being there we knew all about what was going on while we aquired our teleportation nodes?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Thanks for the pro-tip but I'll just keep telling the developers what I think would be best for the games development. You know the reason why they made the forums.

Also to be blunt (You obviously didn't read anything at all) this thread is not really about not wanting Anima it's about having a sense of accomplishment and belonging in the game world. Wouldn't it be rad if instead of a zone just being there we knew all about what was going on while we aquired our teleportation nodes?

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what is best or what you want? I do think all of us have the right to post ideas and feedback but what one person wants isn't always whats best for the game. Though I don't think this subject (your idea not all the have to run everywhere folks ideas) qualifies since it is a good idea and would add to the game as a whole.

I want the world to feel more remote, getting to someplace to be worth while. hate just telephoning wherever i need to go when ever i need to. It just makes travel pointless, may aswell have everything in a small instanced square box if i can just pop myself there anytime i want!

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Originally Posted by Haibel

Really? This BS anima/Teleportation is bad thread again. If you hate anima so much. Which in place for
casuals. You may as well quit now because your really gonna hate content finder.

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Problem with this is just HOW easy it is, SE has this idea that casuals need hand holding all the way that that they don't have 4 min t walk somewhere. With 99 anima a popper casual can never run out. My friend plays casually, and he has never walked anywhere but to one atherite gate.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

what is best or what you want?

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I'm not sure about other people when they suggest stuff but I try to look at it as a whole as what would make my gameplay experience not only more fun but also more engaging and longer lasting.

I may be a rare breed but I never understood the "Give it to me now" mentality of many people IMHO it's a short sighted road to a game with no substance. Heck look at how many people were throwing fits over the relic weapons over RNG and now that most people are passed that RNG hump and have discovered that it's also now not as much RNG as they were going on about but now a grueling challenge. They all went silent or they started to complain about the other end of the sepctrum.

While I respect the people who argued about RNG and upon discovering the RNG was the least of their worries they clammed up and started to buckle down for the work ahead of them, I have no respect for the people who jumped onto the other side of the ship and started to complain about the hard work part of relic items.

I guess that what I "Enjoy" about the game is what I think best that's obvious. But I do try to keep myself in perspective and not just shove all of my ideas down peoples mouths. Hell if it was my decision Anima ports would be seriously crippled to a 1-2 times a day thing with other methods available at cost of other supplies/items in the game.

I would rather FORCE people to walk around than teleport so I have a more lively world to play in. But I'm not going to suggest FORCEing people into playing the way I want them. I want the game to be a place where instead of being forced you would be stupid not to walk around when you had the chance.

Truly, forcing people to walk is a stupid idea. Instead, give them a damn reason to go out walking.

Have some content in areas that can't be teleported to. Put content on the trains, boats, and airships (something better than just random enemy spawns, though). Put out quests that come up at random, have other quests drag you through the middle of nowhere, and then have some more quests start out there in the middle of nowhere. The caravans are really good for this, as are gathering points.

And then when they're done with all that, let them teleport the hell out of there so they can go join a raid on the new primals. >_>

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I still don't get where people think having a system that makes you move through the world is a hinderance.

Then again I never understood the same people who want everything in instanced boxes.

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Play the game your way. If ppl wanna tele everywhere let them do it if you wanna walk everywhere you do it.

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Truly, forcing people to walk is a stupid idea. Instead, give them a damn reason to go out walking.

Have some content in areas that can't be teleported to. Put content on the trains, boats, and airships (something better than just random enemy spawns, though). Put out quests that come up at random, have other quests drag you through the middle of nowhere, and then have some more quests start out there in the middle of nowhere. The caravans are really good for this, as are gathering points.

And then when they're done with all that, let them teleport the hell out of there so they can go join a raid on the new primals. >_>]

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You said it best.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Play the game your way. If ppl wanna tele everywhere let them do it if you wanna walk everywhere you do it.

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I allready made my stance on the "Don't like it don't use it" argument. Wether I use it or not doesn't mean it doesn't effect me and my gameplay experience.

Firon don't you ever ever break Jynx's immersion, because when you mess with the bull you get the horns.

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Originally Posted by Celia

Firon don't you ever ever break Jynx's immersion, because when you mess with the bull you get the horns.

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It's more than just a immersion issue but thanks for the baseless speculation.

*edit*

Eh whatever I'm done arguing with people on my specific likes/dislikes of the system I'd rather discussion be more ontopic of the idea presented rather than the underlying issue.

I don't see why both camps can't get something. Hell I think anima ports have a place in the game just that they should be earned and could be a great part of fleshing the world lore out. People are always saying they want quests with good rewards.

Is being able to teleport to a zone not a good reward? Sure as hell beats Cotton Keks if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I don't see why both camps can't get something. Hell I think anima ports have a place in the game just that they should be earned and could be a great part of fleshing the world lore out. People are always saying they want quests with good rewards.

Is being able to teleport to a zone not a good reward? Sure as hell beats Cotton Keks if you ask me.

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In reference to rewarded ability to teleport, that's still basically the same problem as before. It becomes a one-time thing, just as running to and touching a node is now.

(I would still prefer that people couldn't get a node from being party-teleported to it. Even if able to teleport to it, they should have to leave the region (if having another node in the greater region) or greater region and re-enter to grab the node for their own teleporting.)

If you want a teleport system that doesn't take away from the feel of the world, that can be done by other means than restricting it in it's old spectrum. The following are some examples; I don't expect that these ideas are very good, but I'd appreciate feedback on them.

1. Can set a teleport at any location, but you have a limited number of places you can teleport to. These places can be switched out at any time, but that requires traveling to them.Pragmatists may take camps for those places, while others might take favorite vantage points or hunting spots.

2. You spend increased anima in order to increase your precision of teleport. Aim for a camp, spend little, and it's a hike to get there. Spend the full amount, and you're straight at the camp. Arrive with a 30-second or so fading stealth buff so you don't get immediately ganked by monsters on arrival. Attuned ("favorite") camps have increased precision / less anima cost.

3. Anima cost based on range to destination and more aether gates added. Anima cost reduced when teleporting from a gate or node.

Just trying to keep on topic. Any feedback would be helpful.