Typical gameplay of a Scholar looks like this:
https://i.ibb.co/9vdxxds/Scholar.png
The other healer jobs are no different. Nuke, keep a DoT up and heal with some OGCD heals.
Cheers
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Typical gameplay of a Scholar looks like this:
https://i.ibb.co/9vdxxds/Scholar.png
The other healer jobs are no different. Nuke, keep a DoT up and heal with some OGCD heals.
Cheers
I really, really, really want Blitzballer as the next phys ranged.
Exactly.
The issue is that they press other buttons. People try to go "their DPS rotation is..." ignoring that they have other buttons that aren't part of the DPS rotation. They're mostly oGCDs, but they are actively used. Indeed, to get to the level of 99% 211111, you have to be doing your healing and mitigation entirely through oGCDs. And people like to pretend those "don't count" for some reason.
And another irony is...
...that SCH is actually the most "Glarespamy" of the Healers. If you actually break ability use down by GCDs only and ignore all other buttons, and pretend the fight has no damage at all:
WHM: 2x Dia + 3 Afflatus + Misery (ever min unless specified otherwise)
SCH: 2x Biolysis
AST: 2x Combust + Macrocosmos on a 3 min CD
SGE: 2x EuDosis + Plegma (3 per 2 mins, 2x in Burst) + Pneuma (1 per 2 mins)
6 min used to align both 2 min and 3 min CD abilities:
WHM: 6 non-Glares per min - 36 non-Glares per 6 min
SCH: 2 non-Broils per min - 12 non-Broils per 6 min
AST: 2 non-Malifics per min + 1 every 3rd min - 14 non-Malifics per 6 min
SGE: 3 non-Dosises (Doses?) per min + 1 extra Plegma and 1 Pneuma per 2 mins - 24 non-Dosises per 6 mins
Note that SCH is actually THE WORST offender in this category, only matched by AST in the case AST doesn't ever use Macrocosmos. But, this is strictly looking at GCDs. SCH was the most hurt by making its spamnuke 1.5 sec cast time, as it eliminated Ruin 2 entirely from the rotation. Its "Job extra" damage spell aside from Ruin 2 is Energy Drain, which in addition to all the wonkiness of warring with other abilities for AF use and the cursed ability that should be removed from the game or severely altered, Dissipation, is also an oGCD, so doesn't help "remove the boredom" of people who are hyper-focused on only GCD damage spells in a target dummy fight of no damage.
If we include oGCDs, WHM has Assize on the same timeline as Plegma and Presence of Mind (a DPS CD) every 2 mins, SCH has 3x Energy Drains per minute, 3 more every 3rd minute, and Chain Strategem every 2 mins, AST has Earthly Star every 1 min, and SGE has...nothing else, actually, though unlike SCH, it can replace Glares with Toxicon if we want to count those (but also unlike SCH, Toxicon can't just be used whenever since there's no damage neutral way to gain more charges, and no way at all against a target dummy that isn't dealing any damage)
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EDIT:
Note that 36 2.5 sec GCD uses accounts for 90 seconds, or a minute and a half's worth, of every 6 minutes, or 0.25 (25%) of casts used.
The irony of the name "Glarespam" is that WHM is the LEAST nukespammy of the Healers. And because people go with "herp derp" takes, no one actually bothers to break this down and realize the stupidity of it.
Also, fun fact: This is more non-Glares per minute than WHM in SB cast non-Stones (that being around 5.8 per minute vs EW WHM's 6 per min non-Glares). SB, the praised expansion, was more nukespammy on WHM than EW.
...and no one gets that through their head because they never bother actually analyzing it. >_<
...the big differences being (1) that all the Afflatus Healing (and encounters designed for people to entirely avoid damage reduce healing needed) means less GCDs needed for Medica/Cure spells, and (2) that Afflatus spells are variable in timing, unlike Aero 2/3 which had to be refreshed on rigid short timers.Quote:
In practice, SB WHM cast Aero 2 3.333... times per minute and Aero 3 2.5 times per minute. This is a total of 5.833... GCD casts per minute that weren't Stone IV.
In practice, EW WHM casts Dia 2 times per minute, 3 Afflatus (Solace/Rapture) per minute, and 1 Afflatus Misery per minute. This is a total of 6 GCD casts per minute that aren't Glare III.
On balance, EW WHM is casting non-Glare damage (or damage-adjacent Solace/Rapture) spells on roughly the same average frequency as SB era WHM did.
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EDIT2:
"I have no idea what I'm talking about and will continue to be ignorant rather than listen to why I may be wrong", got it. Glad we cleared that up as how you and your 13 likers think. /thumbsup
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You know, a part of me hopes they give every Healer a 1-2 combo. Just so those numbers get cut in half and the people using them have to explain why their pretty graphs being only half as many pushes of the one button are still "dog----"
didn't read, healers are dogshit, designers should be embarrassed
on topic: another caster on the level of black mage, game sorely lacks high skill ceiling jobs, and true casters. 2 birds 1 stone.
Do you? Taken straight from the funny numbers website of someone who definitely "plays the job" at a savage level:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5593/image.png
Instead of making silly claims, how about you back your stance up and explain how that person is wrong? Or are you going to just put your hands over your ears and say "blah blah blah I'm right you're wrong"? Though considering you have SCH at level 87 I'm not sure I can fully trust your opinion on the matter, sooo...
Edit: For the record, here's the co-healer:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...7348/image.png
I'd love to see a flail or mace melee dps class. Like how the reaper is a dark themed melee dps have something like a crusader for a holy themed melee dps.
I'd love to see a real pet class in the game. Something that stays with you full time in addition to the chocobo.
I'd love to see a Valkyrie type melee class that does melee dps but also heals. Like how the bard/dancer is a support ranged class but you have a melee support class.
All I know is this...until healer is more entertaining to use I'd rather not have another healer class.
However if it does happen to be a healer...I'll play it. I've a soft spot for tank/healer roles.
Maybe they'll do something really oddball, like instead of adding any new jobs at all they'll add alternate weapon types for the tanks and healers that let them switch to DPS queuing. Hammers for WHM and you become a Blunt Trauma Mage. Lock out or replace most of the role abilities, juice the potency on skills that already did damage, add a 123 if needed, etc.
It doesn't matter how much proof you provide someone who misunderstands the healers fundamentally.
If you're new or bad at healing you're going to cast a lot more heals than are necessary. The images above reflect optimised healer gameplay. There is a disconnect there that people aren't aware of, and they think you need all of this healing because they aren't great at it. Instead, they come to the conclusion you never played them. When in reality i main healer in every other game that has them, and tried to main it in FF before i just gave up on their shallow designs.
Your reward for mastering healers is vastly inferior gameplay in FF. Which is reflected in this image.
I want a pet job that fights with their pet. It would be fun, especially if you can tame animals and beasts out in the world.
So you haven't reached max level and you think you have a more informed opinion, despite proof being put in front of you that you're wrong?
On this note, however, I do agree. I want beastmaster so bad but they'll likely make it a freaking limited job and that would be so frustrating.
I just came in here to say that people asking for Geomancer kind of annoy me.
White Mages are originally Geomancers so if they were to add it into the game, it should be paired to CNJ/WHM like Scholar is.
The ones I want the most are:
- Whip-wielding Beastmaster as a limited job, so I can play pokemon and dominatrix in the game;
- Sword & Pistol Corsair as a scouting melee dps job with gambling/coin-flipping mechanics;
- Geomancer as magic ranged dps (don't know what kind of weapon he would use tho, maybe a Parasol?)
For 7.0 well my hopes for new classes would be MagicDps/Tank, I feel like we have enough melee dps and using scouting gear doesn't really make it anymore interesting, (Ideally, I'd want all melees to share the same gear instead of having weird gear splits anyway) Phys ranged should get something in 8.0 but we shouldn't get double ranged.
Tank: Something Far eastern themed would be cool that or something that wields a Hammer.
Magic DPS: Something edgy and cool, In general though you can go in so many directions with Magic Dps, that any sort of direction would be interesting.
Geomancers are in the story of 14, and are kinda tied up to AST... And there are actual reasons for that...
Looking up things on Geomancers in FF in general, led me to a rabbit hole of them being Feng Shui mages all along, which is very heavily linked to fortune telling... Much in the way as Astrology is, and it even does do some Astrology...
But for new classes... To balance things out in the amounts of jobs, a melee DPS (preferably a new Scounting one) so we have 6 melee and 6 ranged.
And possibly a new Regen healer, since AST is a very confused and constantly being reworked, giving a second Regen healer to fill in for AST would be nice as they rework it again in 7.0.
I'm down for Geomancer.
I would say Runefencer, but that would just be a colorful dark knight.
I would like for Blue Mage to be an actual job. It would have two job stones to switch between the actual job, and the limited job that it is now.
The only other two I can think of is Necromancer for a caster, and Oracle for a new healer.
A job with unique utility that is not a carbon copy of the role they occupy for a change. A tank with movement speed buffs and/or more reach on their weapon? A healer with an actual damage rotation.
Actually, scrap that. Fix the existing jobs before giving us ''new'' ones that are just recycled versions of existing ones. Jobs hardly feel different at all.
After SGE turned out to be 80% SCH with QoL adjustments, I have no real desire for new jobs if it's not actually going to be new.
At this point? Nothing. They've killed off anything that made anything unique so getting another ranged or another melee is going to be just that, another ranged and another melee. Sure, they can doll it up and make it look pretty but we all know what's underneath it.
With us almost certainly getting a new mDPS in next expansion, and as someone who frankly cares little about job's mechanics (I won't hold out useless hopes at something drastically different from overall game design direction or things we know won't happen, such as magical tank hybrid or melee magic dps, or regular job blue mage) and moreso about aesthetics... I'm really hoping that the new magical DPS will be focused on non-elemental 'arcane' magic, and more akin to what Arcanist would be if it was a job and not just intro into Summoner. All three current magical dps are different flavours of 'elemental caster' and its kinda boring in that regard. I dunno if there are any past FF series jobs that would fit the bill that well, but maybe that's where 'FF14-original' job design could come in.
A modern Garlean based Job Class. Something like Gaius Baelsar's unique Garlean Gunblade style would make for an awesome DPS job.
Gaius' fighting style is so notoriously hard to master amongst the Garleans that not even Valens Van Varro could reproduce his fighting style through Emerald weapon without including several extra arms to actually fully replicate it.
I've said this for...I think 3 expansions now. 100% agreed. Just give it a 1-2-3 melee combo where it gets to instant cast a free spell at the end and give it some kind of burst phase and you've got yourself a Job. Upkeep Aero DoT, get a big damaging Stone cast when you do your combo, have some party flexibility (since you could use that to cast Cure 2 or Medica 1 - CNJ spells would all carry over), and a combat Raise. Plays somewhat like PLD with the 1-2-3 then empowered Stone, just has an Aero instead of Atonement and has some kind of Quake/Tornado/Flood burst combo. And that it wouldn't be a Tank. CNJ's base weapon being a staff would work just fine with GEO using it as a combat weapon (obviously GEO exclusive staves, like how SCH has different books than ACN/SMN)
Give WHM the SCH/SMN treatment. I know they won't do this, because they hate Classes in general and especially branching ones, but it would be nice.
You're right, people just want to believe what they want to believe, and they will use the most extreme cases to prove it, ignoring the rest of the game and the rest of the playerbase exist. It's probably a case of two many different sized fish swimming in the same pond.
That person is absolutely not right, and you backing up someone that isn't even at max level and doesn't have the fundamental understanding of current end game content doesn't suddenly make them right.
Question for you, and I don't mean this in a disparaging way whatsoever, do you actually do savage or ultimates as a healer, where "how a job plays" actually matters? Cuz let's be real, dungeons are not a fair assessment of how a job plays. SCHs want to avoid casting succor and adlo as much as possible. The basic 1111111211111112 rotation with a few OGCDs thrown in (which has been stated already in this thread) is exactly how a healer generally plays (WHM being a little bit of an outlier because of lilies being GCDs, but for the most part their core gameplay is 11111112).
I don’t care how they do it, i don’t care what role it is, I want a DoT management job again. If they copy/paste old summoner as a new job I will be perfectly happy. I’ve been playing the crystal remasters and they could add evoker as a third arcanist job and that would make me happy.
I hope for a new tank with a big hammer and casts
I would love a Necromancer minion class, preferebly in the ranged caster role.
Have it be different than summoner tho, instead of constant summoning, have like 3-5 skeleton or zombie minions that are permanent features that react to your attacks(and are semi invisible to your teammates).
And could also make it a dot class like old summoner, disease/poisons/infection etc.
But if using undead human minions is too dark for the game, then just have a giant undead monster you can command.
Other than that, Vampire for a healer class would be cool, absorb blood and life force from enemies to heal yourself and the party etc.
And also Pirate as a melee class, with cutlass and a gun, with more options for ranged uptime than other melee.
Maybe even take a swig of ale to buff your damage lol
Was going to say Valkyrie too from Bravely default, but i feel it would be too similar to dragoon, unless you changed it to be a holy magic melee style class or something.
I think part of the problem is that there are four different games in FFXIV, and so people are speaking from their own position. Which is fine. The problem comes when some people in one of those areas thinks they can speak for everyone, OR, that no one's view but theirs actually matters. (If you're curious - MSQ/social/etc, midcore mostly do Extremes and some other things like Deep Dungeons or Exploration content/raids, Savage raiders, Ultimate & World First types - for ballparks; there's some overlap, but they're all different things that focus on different stuff. For example, the second group might see the value of Shield Bash in PotD whle the fourth group would say it's a worthless skill that should be removed from the game.)
See my comment above.
Most of my end-game is Extremes, though I dabble in Savages. I tend to have a variable schedule and so don't have a Static (especially back when I was in the military), and I REALLY hate trying to do Savage in PF, so often don't bother with them or just do one or two fights. Likewise, if I ever get into Ultimates, I'd want a consistent group to do them with. Extremes are...somewhat annoying, but doable in PF. I would also note that PF players tend to have more difficulty than Savages, and have to do a lot of things like combat raises and GCD heal. That is, you actually DO have to flex a lot more of your healing kit, which gives a different experience than playing in Ultimate or Savages with a Static of consistent and high skilled players.
And I'd further point out:
Is 100% false.
As I say, the PF non-Savage/Ultimate community definitely still cares how their Job feels to play, and the different optimization they have to do around wildly disparate groups in terms of skill and capability. And everyone, even the most casual MSQ hero, is playing with the same Job kits. So how all these other people care and feel about Job design is entirely relevant. Handwaving them away isn't right.
This:
...is often untrue when you're playing with people who collect vuln stacks. While you might not WANT to cast them, you often HAVE to cast them. Just because Ultimate players in dedicated Statics don't need them doesn't mean that the average player isn't getting more use out of them.
Honestly, I think that was a great decision and wish they'd carry that more to other Healers...but then again, I don't think all the Healers should be designed the same way. I DO think having so much oGCD healing is bad for the game, because it masks how many non-Glaoilifosis people are casting because they don't feel those are "real buttons" somehow. It's also shifted the game's meta to being about "mitigation management" and not "healing", since we have so much healing that the only way to "challenge" Healers is to have attacks that require mitigation.
...when they then inexplicably gave to DPS and Tanks instead of Healers, with WHM having arguably less party mitigation than BLM (Addle's CD is 30 sec shorter than Temperance's...)
I think the big problem right now with "healing" is encounter design has changed to doing long periods of no damage, then periods of high damage (and movement) that requires mitigation and oGCD healing to manage. This discourages using GCD heals, and for non-WHMs (and now SGE) somewhat impossible since the movement heavy nature means you can't plant your feat to cast heals even if you wanted to. Coupled with making heal MP more expensive and prohibitive (for...no reason, since it's already a half-useless gauge other than managing Raises at this point), and it's like they don't want people using GCD heals, despite us having a ton of them and having a repetitive and bland GCD "rotation" (for damage) otherwise.
The game used not to be this way. SB, HW, ARR - the "glory days" - were GCD focused healing. Even ARR SCH using Lustrate's flat 25% heal to cheese through Cleric only had 3 per minute (though it was always more oGCD focused than WHM), but the game was designed for Healers to plant their feet and HEAL from time to time. Modern encounter design is a total mess. Combine THAT with the 2 min meta and buff stacking, and the whole thing has just become a total mess that, honestly, I think needs a total top to bottom rework at this point.
A lot of people point to SB Job design, but I point to SB encounter design. The kits alone can't exist in vacuum without the encounter design reverting as well - as it should.
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(Though for the record, since hewhoshallnotbenamed won't post on his main and the only logical conclusion is he hasn't cleared any content on healers at all, so he's afraid of posting on his main and being called out for it: Green, and occasionally Blue, apparently. Don't run third party stuff myself, but I do glance at the website from time to time to see how I've done on content that I've done more than a couple times, and generally end up in that range. Not to mention "Sylphie" means "someone who never casts a damage spell and only heals", not that a troll knows that, either.)
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Given all that - I honestly think they either shouldn't add a new Job or only add ONE to minimize that workload, for 7.0, because I think they need to take a serious look at encounter design on the whole, how much sustain healing and mitigation Tanks and DPS are bringing to the table that makes Healers so unnecessary in so much content (when things are going well, anyway), and they REALLY need to make the Healers' damage kits not carbon copies of each other. I think WHM is fine as it is as far as that goes due to how Lilies work (and, as I noted, that it's the least "nukespammy" of the Healers as it is), but it would be nice to see the other three branch out a bit.
I was honestly shocked when SGE had the same DoT + spamnuke instead of having...something different? A RDM back-and-forth thing, a 1-2-3 combo of some sort; SOMETHING different. I was very surprised when it was just "same thing as the other three, just does tick healing now".
I want to point out that they're right about the data, let me show you a run of P11S that was entirely in PF, I didn't know any of them, we also had 3 deaths, 2 of which I ressed:
This is the DPS:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2480/image.png
This is the HPS:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8632/image.png
This is my casts:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...3898/image.png
I'm pretty sure a run where I had to heal so much and 3 people died, where we also killed on enrage, would qualify as a trainwreck, yet 63% of my total GCDs were Broil IV.