Relic News - 6.45

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Originally Posted by Tulvi

I’m wondering whether this is a WoW migration issue, because this was the attitude I witnessed in WoW and escaped it as soon as I learnt there’s something like FF14.

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What's up with former WoW players who joined with the "exodus" in 2021 acting like pick-mes and constantly bringing up WoW when nobody's talking about it? Really cringe behavior for an adult to be honest

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Originally Posted by Gemina

A huge issue with players, especially among the younger generation is the frequent need for instant gratification. You take content that required months of development and devour it within hours and immediately begin asking for more. This is not a dev problem. This is a you problem. There's no way one game can keep up with such savage appetites. Yoshi knows this, and is likely a big reason why he said go play something else for a time, and then come back.

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Yep, I fully agree. We all need to take a step back from the precipice and consider unsubscribing from Final Fantasy XIV for the time being. Square Enix doesn't care about profit, which is good because we shouldn't care about it either. It can be hard to find a new hobby to fill the time, but given that FFXIV isn't giving us much to begin with, it'll all be worth it in the end. And when 6.4 comes around as empty as the patches prior, we can simply pass it up and not even bother resubscribing. That way, we can always be playing other games! Wouldn't Yoshi-P be proud?

Here's a suggestion to get some momentum going. World of Warcraft: Dragonflight is on sale for $30 and has a new patch releasing tomorrow with a ton of new content:
https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/pro...t-dragonflight

Idk why they insist on calling the tome weps relics this expansion :v

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

What's up with former WoW players who joined with the "exodus" in 2021 acting like pick-mes and constantly bringing up WoW when nobody's talking about it? Really cringe behavior for an adult to be honest

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Gotta keep their delusion of FF14 being the best game ever and they didnt just come to this game to "teach blizzard a lesson"

Ah yes, I love running roulettes only to get a relic with no effort. I was already bored throughout 6.35 that I ran mentor roulette 117 times in 2 days.

IT OK GUYS!

IT WILL GET BETTER IN THE NEXT STEP

AHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA

This game is made for actual children at this point. Where are the MMO aspects.

HERE GUYS, TAKE THIS ABSOLUTELY FREE WEAPON THATS SUPPOSED TO BE A RELIC BUT YOU LITERALLY HAVE TO DO NOTHING DIFFERNT TO GET IT, JUST RUN THE SAME ROULETTES YOU HAVE BEEN RUNNING FOR 6 YEARS STRAIGHT AND YOU CAN GET IT!

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Originally Posted by Tulvi

Big true. When Island Sanctuaries came out, most of the players (particularly from NA) jumped on it with this min/max attitude, completely missing the point of that content, and “finished” the thing in no time. I took my sweet time, explored the place, had fun with friends, and kept playing and coming back to it even after I completed every thing there was to do on the Island (took me months), and still keep coming back to it, because it is meant to be a chill place to relax (the story itself says so).

And there are so many examples like this, when players with min/max approach tear apart the content in a few days and then complain about not having anything to do. I’m wondering whether this is a WoW migration issue, because this was the attitude I witnessed in WoW and escaped it as soon as I learnt there’s something like FF14.

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The Min/Max happens with every single piece of content ever and the reason it happens is largely because of content creators. All the min/max math is done for reputation, clicks, likes, streaming, views, ect. It's also a very, "If you don't do it, someone else will and they'll get the Youtube clicks you could have had." This is just the nature of reality.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I Always love the buzzword minority when I see it on the forums. People throw that baseless word around so much without any evidence to back it up with.
"This group is a minority; people don't really feel that way."
Yeah they were sooo minor that SE felt the need to do something about it

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Not to mention the ignored actual harm this does to real-life minorities, who are still being mistreated by the way. But sure, let's bandy the word about over disgruntled patrons on an internet forum. No respect, I swear.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Ah yes, I love running roulettes only to get a relic with no effort. I was already bored throughout 6.35 that I ran mentor roulette 117 times in 2 days.

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Why did you run the same roulette so many times?

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

IT OK GUYS!

IT WILL GET BETTER IN THE NEXT STEP

AHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA

This game is made for actual children at this point. Where are the MMO aspects.

HERE GUYS, TAKE THIS ABSOLUTELY FREE WEAPON THATS SUPPOSED TO BE A RELIC BUT YOU LITERALLY HAVE TO DO NOTHING DIFFERNT TO GET IT, JUST RUN THE SAME ROULETTES YOU HAVE BEEN RUNNING FOR 6 YEARS STRAIGHT AND YOU CAN GET IT!

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I mean isn't it any different with running through Eureka and Bozja if you want to farm for all weapons? You just keep quit and enter new instance and AFK hoping for those sweaty people spawn NM for you, and for Bozja you just mindless FATE and do DR with Essence of Platebearer hoping those people carry you.

Don't you guys keep complaining how boring the instance is? I'm confused why you're shocked because you all wanted this :confused:

Mao nots worried abouts more tomestone gatherings. Manderville weapons just icings on cake for Mao. It was Hildebrand quests that Mao wanted more of. To be honest, for most of what Mao does in game, Manderville weapons is overkills.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

While this is definitely on the easier side of relics we have done, I don't think making an exploratory zone is mandatory to make something a grind, after all people still complain about the ARR relic and it has no such thing tied to it. Also let's be honest here, if they did add another Exploratory this time people would be complaining about it just the same, there is no pleasing everyone and that's just the way it is.

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Even WoW had its low points, so for me its like....whatever, FFXIV is just going through its low Points Phase (which people will argue happened at X time) maybe next time they'll have a better idea, or a more busy one.
I hated Explore Zones in Stormblood, hoped they'd never do it again. Did it again in Shadowbringers to my Disappointment...but I actually really liked it that time. Them not doing it again this time Im kinda happy, because 3 times in a row would have been boring. And people complain about just doing the same thing Over-and-Over again. But hey, I guess the Repetition of Explore Zones is more some peoples styles here.

Im not to surprised or really hurt about the next step if its true to just be another Tome Grind, I just want to actually know from the Devs if its a thing or not 1st.
And...yeah, I agree with one person that they could have tied to something abit like Criterion. One of the biggest gripes was the lack of Worthwhile rewards. Part of a Relic step would have been a decent reward and get more people into it, if not BACK into it.
Unfortunate. We got like, what 1 or 2 more steps till the end of the Expansion? If they dont already have it mapped, hopefully they'll have a better idea and possibly give us a more interesting and harder Final Step.
Maybe.

I can at least be excited for more Hildi! <3

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It's clear to me that those of us who wanted a more involved process are not simply not being listened to, but actively ignored.

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Welcome to to lives of healers for the past 6 years or so.

We have cookies on the table.

atleast they don't have to bother to nerf it
once this all converts to poetics itll all be even easier AND you can get these relics done before your roulettes get you to lvl 95

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Originally Posted by Duskane

atleast they don't have to bother to nerf it
once this all converts to poetics itll all be even easier AND you can get these relics done before your roulettes get you to lvl 95

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If the Weapons look cool in the end, EASY GLAMOUR

I'll take a half ass grind this expac if I can get a full ass grind next expac. I do think exploratory zones are theoretically at their best when they are at least 1 expac apart. But what do I know. Regardless, they need to make whatever the grind content is FUN. Maybe I've just been playing too long but once you've learned this game's tricks, there isn't a whole lot to look forward to.

Woo! This makes me happy. Only relic series I kept up with given how dull the old grinds were.

I honestly don't really mind that much, if anything this is a big W for me, I don't enjoy massive relic grinds where you'd just be doing a bunch of pointless stuff. Both are grinds anyway, the new relic is just a lot less obnoxious, at least with 1500 tomes theirs a lot more "content" to get it.

Yes theirs a content issue right now (being theirs nothing fun to do lol), but spamming fates or a single thing to get your next relic step isn't going to make the game feel less dull to me.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I honestly don't really mind that much, if anything this is a big W for me, I don't enjoy massive relic grinds where you'd just be doing a bunch of pointless stuff. Both are grinds anyway, the new relic is just a lot less obnoxious, at least with 1500 tomes theirs a lot more "content" to get it.

Yes theirs a content issue right now (being theirs nothing fun to do lol), but spamming fates or a single thing to get your next relic step isn't going to make the game feel less dull to me.

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The point is, they could have funneled players into activities that are currently not being used or are outdated to the point where putting people in the roulette queue would keep it active.

Variant Dungeons and Normal Raids from both Asphodelos/Abyssos are good examples of content that could use the boost in players doing those activities, and are current expansion content that is kind of left dead after its served its purpose.
People doing Variant dundgeons means more people can do all 12 paths without having to do it solo.
People doing Raids helps newer players in DF trying to queue up to get their quests completed.

Thats all the issue is, There is no direction, they just dump it infront of you and say 'here, do exactly what you have been doing for the last year and a half and you WILL LIKE IT (or go unsub)'

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

The point is, they could have funneled players into activities that are currently not being used or are outdated to the point where putting people in the roulette queue would keep it active.

Variant Dungeons and Normal Raids from both Asphodelos/Abyssos are good examples of content that could use the boost in players doing those activities, and are current expansion content that is kind of left dead after its served its purpose.
People doing Variant dundgeons means more people can do all 12 paths without having to do it solo.
People doing Raids helps newer players in DF trying to queue up to get their quests completed.

Thats all the issue is, There is no direction, they just dump it infront of you and say 'here, do exactly what you have been doing for the last year and a half and you WILL LIKE IT (or go unsub)'

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I mean I really don't disagree, it sucks for relic players who liked the old relic grinds, I just hated them personally I find the new system works better for me. Alot of people share the same feelings too, Most people don't find "do random fate and hope you get something towards your relic step" fun.

I wish the rewards for Asp/abys were higher in general (obviously they're "quicker" but you get a disproportionate amount) you don't get a lot of Tomes from raids and trials so you end up spamming dungeons when you're out of dailies for extra tomes, I'm already sick of seeing the expert dungeons, pretty sure variant also just gives you less then expert, I'd really enjoy some forms of content at least, maybe even a system where you could get some extra tomes or stuff when you haven't played a duty in a while (insane I know). I personally just found the previous relic grinds more annoying then anything exciting or fun.

It's clear that Variant dungeons are just going to be neglected and not brought back in 7.0 we'll get "oh no one played it anyway!" when it's because the rewards were lacking, Heck even making older content more fun and relevant would be nice, but no one wants to play when half your skills are took away and older content feels awful anyway.

Varity is there, but the issue is a lot of it isn't even fun or the fun stuff doesn't even properly reward you.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao nots worried abouts more tomestone gatherings. Manderville weapons just icings on cake for Mao. It was Hildebrand quests that Mao wanted more of. To be honest, for most of what Mao does in game, Manderville weapons is overkills.

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Vel likes Mao, Mao seems to have a more level head on his shoulders.

Matthieu would prefer another Eureka or Bozja. Matthieu would find that to be more engaging than gathering tomestones through yet more roulettes or hunt trains.

Yunea think 3 explore zone in row kinda boring.
More Option to get Material more fun, makes more and new use out of current and old Content.
Would revive Criterion as well if make relevant.

Yunea like this more then bloated big zone yet again.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Matthieu would prefer another Eureka or Bozja. Matthieu would find that to be more engaging than gathering tomestones through yet more roulettes or hunt trains.

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Vel found Eureka not engaging at all, Vel thinks Bozja was interesting until the expac ended, at which time, getting groups is and remains a pain in the rear. When Eureka is made soloable, come see Vel, he will be happy.

fellas dev team already treats us like cavemen don't gotta prove em right by talking like them

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Originally Posted by Duskane

fellas dev team already treats us like cavemen don't gotta prove em right by talking like them

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https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1960...600,f8f8f8.jpg

Unga Bunga

I'm not particularly thrilled by the news. I think it's just lazy design. I'm not saying we needed a new exploratory zone (that's my preference though), but something more creative than grinding roulette's would have been nice.

Vel no like picture. Man needs shave and haircut.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

fellas dev team already treats us like cavemen don't gotta prove em right by talking like them

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Cromagnons spoke in 3rd person? News to me, I was under the impression that was a 20th century delusion.

Specifically afflicting the under 18 age group. Ah well, you truly do learn something every day~ ◕‿↼

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Originally Posted by Duskane

fellas dev team already treats us like cavemen don't gotta prove em right by talking like them

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https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2016/sUsBvq.gif

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Originally Posted by Duskane

fellas dev team already treats us like cavemen don't gotta prove em right by talking like them

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Mao is feral dragon-kin. When Mao was baby, Mao was found and raised by nice Dragon Momma. Mao nots know Eorzean language very well. Mao knows Dragon speakings well though. GROWF!

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Specifically afflicting the under 18 age group. Ah well, you truly do learn something every day~ ◕‿↼

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..theres this thing called a sense of humour?

Kitty like Mao. Kitty want to give greeting licks,

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

But even if the relics were to be tied to something that base-level casuals can't complete, is that really such a bad thing?

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Yes, it is a bad thing.

For people that want hard and grindy high level organized party combat, there's Savage weapons. Having Criterion Relics would be redundant since the people who have statics or like trying their luck with the PF already have Savage weapons. Like I love PotD, HoH, etc, but I don't have statics. So I solo them when I feel like it.

Past Relics worked that way. You could either solo/DF them (ARR/HW) or pick up groups on the fly in exploration zones (Eureka/Bozja). None ever required statics or organized parties to do. Those were options people could do, but they were entirely doable for non-static players, which is the majority of the playerbase. Difficulty was substituted for persistence. Instead of mastering hard fights for a Savage weapon, you have to have knowledge of the steps and dogged dedication to the grind. Both were challenging in their own way as they had to be worked for. It's like comparing a star athlete who works super hard for a decade to amass some millions to retire on to the nose-to-the-grindstone tradesman who works 50 years to achieve the same general result.

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Also, the argument "you don't need it, why do you want it" is and always has been stupid. There's no content you're worse off having better gear, no content in the game (aside from MAYBE Ultimates after the expansion is over) need BiS to complete, and the entire point of an MMO is bettering, improving, and strengthening your character, which is tied to gear.

Asking "Why do you want good gear, if you aren't raiding?" is like asking "Why do you work out, if you aren't going to run a marathon?"; there are reasons to do and have these things besides doing Savage content. It's never been a good question to ask.

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The people this is probably going to annoy the most are folks like me who love the Eureka/Bozja content or even the ARR/HW Relic grinds. Raiders have their Savages and Ultimates, hyper-casuals have their Limsa Aetherite. We in the middle have nothing right now, and it sucks. I knew when they said they weren't doing an Exploration zone this expansion, it was going to suck. But with even longer patch cycles/content drought and nothing like that to grind on...it's sucking a lot more than I anticipated. And no, Island Sweatshop ain't it for me.

Here's hoping they and all the anti-Eureka/Boaja people have learned how much this sucks and we can go back to that content next expansion. It really helps during the content drought periods to have stuff like that to grind and farm.

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Also, the argument "you don't need it, why do you want it" is and always has been stupid.

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Its gatekeeping, really. "You dont need this because I say so and because I will tell you what you should have"

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Asking "Why do you want good gear, if you aren't raiding?" is like asking "Why do you work out, if you aren't going to run a marathon?"; there are reasons to do and have these things besides doing Savage content. It's never been a good question to ask.

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Its more WOW level gatekeeping, tbh. I had this same hilarious conversation back then, talking about elixirs I made "You shouldnt be using them they are for raiding only"..yet when I looked at them, I didnt see " this is for raiders only" anywhere...what made me laugh the hardest was this wombat telling me what to do with elixirs I CRAFTED..."give them to your guild"..yeah....

NO.

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hyper-casuals have their Limsa Aetherite.

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This meme is getting real old.

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We in the middle have nothing right now, and it sucks.

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Speak for yourself, Im busy all the time. And no I didnt like Bozja either.

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Here's hoping they and all the anti-Eureka/Boaja people have learned how much this sucks and we can go back to that content next expansion. It really helps during the content drought periods to have stuff like that to grind and farm.

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"We"? Who is "we"?

YOU may like this kind of interminable grind, doesnt mean others do...I can see the meme "yeah you afk in Limsa all the time" no, I dont actually. Each of us finds what we want to do and what we dont, I can think of a lot of people who are actually put off with this kind of hamster wheel, so lauding it as 'something everyone wants to do"..is flat out wrong.

Heres the major issue I have with Eureka and Bozja, this is actually a discussion I had earlier today, they are not future proofed. Once the content is older or glam only it attracts only a small number of people.."but..but....you can do it in party finder", again, no thanks, thats other people doing areas you may not even be up to yet..plus those who have what they wanted from those areas have little to no interest afterwards.

I was even in an FC that said yeah we will do Eureka, they did all of ONE session and then said " yeah Im not interested, go do it yourself"

I am not..repeat not..repeat NOT fighting mobs that are and have been deliberately designed to be GROUP content alone. "You may find others there"..yeah and I may not, except for bots of course.

Want me to get interested in Eureka?

Make it all soloable.

Lastly: this "content drought" is all of two weeks more than before, patch delays / interregnums are standard for all MMO's across the board.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Heres the major issue I have with Eureka and Bozja, this is actually a discussion I had earlier today, they are not future proofed.

Want me to get interested in Eureka?

Make it all soloable.

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I soloed Eureka in 5.3 from mid-Anemos (which I had done some of in ShB but was in the military at the time so didn't have time to do the rest) to Hydatos. Within two weeks I was leading NM trains around the place. Eureka is hopping most days during general peek times, and all the time on weekends. With the 300% buff to HP, Damage, Healing, and EXP gain in there, and the fact the FATE/NM difficulty scales to number of players in the zone, you can solo pretty much anything you want in there other than BA, and you don't need BA to get the Relics or first upgrade of the Elemental gear (dyable).

Eureka actually IS pretty future-proofed.

Bozja not so much, but while it was current, it wasn't too terrible. And people were saying at the time there'd be issues. The Devs were a bit slow to respond, but it wasn't too bad.

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As for the current Relic being something you can get with Tomes:

WE ALREADY HAVE THAT.

Tomestone weapons already exist. There are and have been since SB (don't remember the endgame as much in ARR and HW, but there was some kind of thing like that, too...) five main endgame weapon types in FFXIV:

1) Savage raid weapons.
2) Extreme Trial weapons.
3) Tomestone turn in weapons.
4) Crafted weapons.
5) Relic weapons (various forms of grind).

The Savage raid weapons are the highest ilevel up until the VERY last patch when Relics surpass them. Extremes are the same as Relics at every step and can be farmed for. Tomestones are 5 ilevels higher (or is it lower?) and can be upgraded 5 ilevels by either doing Savages or from 24 man coin turn-ins (since at least SB, and I think HW). Crafted weapons are 5 ilevels lower than all those but are effectively "free" at this point. People MB them for Gil, but it's often not too terrible, and you can always craft your own if you want to.

Each works a bit different and serves a different audience (though many players are audiences of multiple of them) and engagement levels.

Tomes have always been for people that just want to do whatever and buy them. You do your roulettes, you get a weapon.

Now, in EW, we have:

1) Savage raid weapons.
2) Extreme Trial weapons.
3) Tomestone turn in weapons.
4) Crafted weapons.
5) Tomestone turn in weapons.

That's the problem. (3) and (5) are just the same thing, except (5) comes out slightly later but is way more farmable due to being the older Tomestone that doesn't have a weekly cap. Oh, but look what's missing - the grind for people that WANT a grind. Now they have nothing and are bored to tears.

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EDIT: The last two expansions, when we were in the content lull at the end of a patch waiting for the next one, we could jump into Eureka or Bozja and work on things we wanted that were current. We could even do Bozja AND Eureka.

That was the difference. Now, I've done most of what I care for in Eureka (have all the relics for the Jobs I play) and Bozja. So now what? Oh, RIGHT: Nothing. Because there's nothing else to do to make current progress if you aren't a Savage or Ultimate raider with a static or braving PF. And even now PF groups aren't making well because of how long in the tooth THAT content is since it's nearly 8 months old now.

Hell, I even went back and finished all the sidequests in the game for past expansions. I've done all the way up through ShB. Yes. ALL of them. (I did a lot of them on DRK. Seemed pretty fitting given the Job lore/story, actually... XD)

Renathras: thank you for that encouragement, I may indeed have at it again soon..just one small reservation

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Eureka is hopping most days during general peek times

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This does vary from server to server. Ill take a look and see what Kujata has to offer...or other servers in the datacentre.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Renathras: thank you for that encouragement, I may indeed have at it again soon..just one small reservation



This does vary from server to server. Ill take a look and see what Kujata has to offer...or other servers in the datacentre.

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I think the big thing with Eureka is you get what you put into it. If you just keep your head down and wait for spawns, you'll get there eventually. But by far the best way for me was to be talkative in /shout and join parties when people were doing prep parties/NM spawns and just roll with it. But either way, it's absolutely doable now if you want to do it.

I used to recommend Primal Forays for Primal DC, but it disbanded/got deleted. The Help Lines Discord is good, though, from what experience I've had with them (and I think may cover more DCs). And worse case scenario: We have DC travel now. \o/

Eureka was pain and Bozja was also soul sucking for getting more than one weapon. And the shb relic weapons really didn't look good enough for the effort they required imo.
I am playing pretty casually lately so EW relic suits me fine. I have 2 weapons up to date so far and working on a third. And they already look better than shb ones.
Personally much prefer this to another zone or 60 fate grind. It was just boring. At least I can do pvp and other stuff I actually like and get the tomes for my relic.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Eureka was pain and Bozja was also soul sucking for getting more than one weapon. And the shb relic weapons really didn't look good enough for the effort they required imo.
I am playing pretty casually lately so EW relic suits me fine. I have 2 weapons up to date so far and working on a third. And they already look better than shb ones.
Personally much prefer this to another zone or 60 fate grind. It was just boring. At least I can do pvp and other stuff I actually like and get the tomes for my relic.

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Yes they were a lot of work but it kept people busy which is what the main complaints are about. You got to love it though given how both Eureka and Bozja were so badly accepted on this forum that now they're what relics should be about.

Personally given we have no exploratory zones I have no issues with what we're getting I'd rather not do what we had to do pre exploratory zones. Just busy work running old content wasn't all that fun in my opinion.

I honestly hope the blowback on this relic will get them to give us exploratory zones again.