SE, no effort anywhere lately.

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Originally Posted by Amarande

Some of it feels like that, some of it feels like that general feeling I keep getting that co-op PvE is on its way out and honestly I wish it wasn't because that means a future that's either lonely or filled with an exclusive diet of PvP, which has never been much of a big calling for me (outside of old school board and card games, and that one time I was lucky my friends and I all played Unreal Tournament at the time - yes I'm dating myself - anyways).

Apparently C&V dungeons didn't have enough rewards (I'm still finishing up 6.0, so I haven't had a chance to try them myself and it sounds iffy if I will get to outside of Solo Variant, lol) - but as we know, that's a notoriously fussy thing to balance from a design standpoint.

Deep Dungeons always have a certain draw if only because it's about the only part of the game that has a few teeth left while still being variable enough that you get to use your noggin instead of it being a fiesta of "just paint by numbers from the influencer videos unless you're a world prog grade player yourself" like most PvE feels like now (almost like, why are we even playing the game anymore instead of just watching streamers do it? Not like you can really do it much differently without losing, unlike traditional RPGs. And if you point out that's a flaw, the hardcore people will say they won't feel challenged if it's not that strict. No wonder most casual folks seem more into Venue RP now). But their flaw is that they tend to demand marathon sessions most folks of the interested bent no longer have.

It might just be multiplayer gaming as we knew it that's played out, and the modern shifts seem like they mainly benefit influencers and fans rather than veteran gamers. And while I suppose SE could do otherwise, would it bring in the money they're expected to?

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Criterion's problem isn't only the rewards, so much as it failed to provide a challenge of the same level of deep dungeons, exploratory content or extremes, which are what bridge between casual and savage tier. Instead they gave us more casual (Variant) and two savage (Criterion and Criterion Savage). The rewards sucking is the icing, because for how difficult Criterion is, those rewards are disproportional.

EDIT: I'll also add that in my personal opinion the way V&C offer "alternate paths" feels incredibly artificial. When they explained what it was, I imagined we would get a dungeon type that actually felt like a dungeon again. Instead, it's more content that feels like a theme-park attraction in Disney World. Only this time you're asked to solve puzzles and make your choice of paths when the attraction guide wants you to. On top of that, only Variant, which is easy enough as is, allows a level of flexibility. In the end the full experience barely feels any different to existing dungeon design.

That's why it's always funny when you see serial posters say they still have stuff to do, so they're not bored of XIV. Well yeah, because you spend most of your time on the forum. No wonder you still feel you have things to do, you get all of your actual engagement out of the multiplayer notepad.

But most of us aren't like that, we need the game itself to be engaging and fulfilling to continue moving on. It's as slow as a 10 year old Manga and just as engaging. Slap some FOMO housing on that manga and I couldn't tell the difference at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

Sounds like you enjoy WoW. Which, is perfectly fine and all that. Bit strange that you if you are having so much fun in another game you feel the need to come to the forum of the game you no longer play just to bitch about it.

I mean, if you've moved on...then MOVE ON. Trust, it's the healthy thing to do.

Have fun!

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Yes let’s shoo away people that cite reasons for leaving as feedback so the game improves because the game is perfect as is. That way everyone will quit faster and they can shut the game down or stop updating it all together quicker. /clap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

Sounds like you enjoy WoW. Which, is perfectly fine and all that. Bit strange that you if you are having so much fun in another game you feel the need to come to the forum of the game you no longer play just to bitch about it.

I mean, if you've moved on...then MOVE ON. Trust, it's the healthy thing to do.

Have fun!

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Exactly! Let people go away from our game, just because they find it boring lately. Thats awesome idea! And it works. I also downloaded wow after so many years and thinking about buying a sub just because every dummy in this forum tells me I should go play other games. And lemme tell, you, Im not gonna play FF for a LOONG time before a catch up with all wow content that released. So cg. Just caps shout everybody, who wants FF14 to improve, so they can have more fun with it, to go away. Let FF die and move on! Was a fun ride while it lasted...

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Yes let’s shoo away people that cite reasons for leaving as feedback so the game improves because the game is perfect as is. That way everyone will quit faster and they can shut the game down or stop updating it all together quicker. /clap

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You won't find anywhere that I said the game is perfect. Far from it.

But there is a huge difference between "feedback" and coming to a forum for a game you supposedly no longer play and have no interest in playing ever again (their words, not mine) and just bitching. It's simply not healthy, full stop.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

And lemme tell, you, Im not gonna play FF for a LOONG time before a catch up with all wow content that released...

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Um, ok. Whatever works for you and makes you happy, I say go for it. Have fun!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Criterion's problem isn't only the rewards, so much as it failed to provide a challenge of the same level of deep dungeons, exploratory content or extremes, which are what bridge between casual and savage tier. Instead they gave us more casual (Variant) and two savage (Criterion and Criterion Savage). The rewards sucking is the icing, because for how difficult Criterion is, those rewards are disproportional.

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True. Proper rewards would just slower dying process by little. But having content that is balanced around savage gear and rewarding only materia is just spit on players, that made they not wanting to even try engaging with said content.

But I liked it as challenging content. Was very fun for me. Could be better? Sure. But good start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

You won't find anywhere that I said the game is perfect. Far from it.

But there is a huge difference between "feedback" and coming to a forum for a game you supposedly no longer play and have no interest in playing ever again (their words, not mine) and just bitching. It's simply not healthy, full stop.

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They literally said what type of content they find fun in other games. HOW IS THAT NOT A FEEDBACK holy shit. They dont want to play in current state, but it can be seen THAT THEY STILL CARE. Dont be dumb.

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Originally Posted by R041

That's why it's always funny when you see serial posters say they still have stuff to do, so they're not bored of XIV. Well yeah, because you spend most of your time on the forum. No wonder you still feel you have things to do, you get all of your actual engagement out of the multiplayer notepad.

But most of us aren't like that, we need the game itself to be engaging and fulfilling to continue moving on. It's as slow as a 10 year old Manga and just as engaging. Slap some FOMO housing on that manga and I couldn't tell the difference at this point.

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Well, I guess if you don't do any of the games content, you'd run out pretty quickly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

You won't find anywhere that I said the game is perfect. Far from it.

But there is a huge difference between "feedback" and coming to a forum for a game you supposedly no longer play and have no interest in playing ever again (their words, not mine) and just bitching. It's simply not healthy, full stop.

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Not healthy? What are you, an armchair therapist? They literally made ONE post my dude lmao. You'd have more of a case if they were ranting up and down about it, but making a singular post with coherent couple of paragraphs where you can follow the logic behind it isn't an indicator of mental unwellness really. Come on now, be reasonable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

You won't find anywhere that I said the game is perfect. Far from it.

But there is a huge difference between "feedback" and coming to a forum for a game you supposedly no longer play and have no interest in playing ever again (their words, not mine) and just bitching. It's simply not healthy, full stop.

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What I learned from him and the example he cited is that WoW has some content that lasts a lot longer than XIV does for players that want to stick around.

What I learned from your comment is that you became offended when someone else brought ideas FFXIV could look at and you cussed him out and told him to go away.

Then, you disguised it as health concerns and pretended you were a nice person….

It crazy how people try to rationalize their aggressive/toxic behavior.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Well, I guess if you don't do any of the games content, you'd run out pretty quickly.

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What content are you doing right now that keeps you actively engaged?

Is there some kinda underground 24/7 fun parade I'm not aware of? Something that's constantly engaging and where I don't have to AFK queue for an hour?

Oh, ERP. Now I get it. lol

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Originally Posted by R041

What content are you doing right now that keeps you actively engaged?

Is there some kinda underground 24/7 fun parade I'm not aware of? Something that's constantly engaging and where I don't have to AFK queue for an hour?

Oh, ERP. Now I get it. lol

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Nice strawman lol. I have not now, nor ever engaged in even regular RP, let alone ERP. I'm currently taking a break from most stuff, because I'm employed full time and this quarters classes have a ton of group projects as finals.



But as for in game content I'd be doing if school wasn't a factor? Solo potd, big fishing (just finished catching the last big fish I needed to get the Big Fish title for all pre-6.0 big fish), HoH solo, farming old raids for glam, pvp achievements. May attempt a couple ultimates eventually, if I have the time, but savage takes up my free time when my static is active during new tiers and we're casual raiders so that's a good 2-3 months for that.

Oh, and I still need to finish eureka and I eventually want to do the DR Savage stuff too. There's a ton of stuff I haven't had time to complete.



I've never had a queue that lasts an hour for any content.


I do find it funny how it seems to mostly be newer forum accounts who complain about lack of content though.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Come on now, be reasonable.

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Reason is acknowledging that a game isn't doing it for you anymore and simply moving on. That goes for anyone (including myself).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ath192

What I learned from your comment is that you became offended when someone else brought ideas FFXIV could look at and you cussed him out and told him to go away.

It crazy how people try to rationalize their aggressive/toxic behavior.

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There isn't a single thing that person said that offended me. What a silly thing to even suggest.

You and I have very different definitions of "cussing out".

And with your last sentence, irony is truly dead. Whew.

Seems like they're phoning it in, now. Utter bore fest. Time to move on. Nothing is going to change. Every major patch is wash, rinse, repeat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

There isn't a single thing that person said that offended me. What a silly thing to even suggest.

You and I have very different definitions of "cussing out".

And with your last sentence, irony is truly dead. Whew.

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You just seem very offended someone criticized your game. And dismissing others peoples concerns as the B word doesn’t do you any favors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

Sounds like you enjoy WoW. Which, is perfectly fine and all that. Bit strange that you if you are having so much fun in another game you feel the need to come to the forum of the game you no longer play just to bitch about it.

I mean, if you've moved on...then MOVE ON. Trust, it's the healthy thing to do.

Have fun!

---

This has "Leave that multi-million dollar company alone!" vibes all over it XD XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

Reason is acknowledging that a game isn't doing it for you anymore and simply moving on. That goes for anyone (including myself).

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Reason is also acknowledging that people who have put thousands of hours into this game, over the course of years, will have obviously strong opinions about what they feel is their (once) favorite game going on a downhill slope with no signs of stopping. Sometimes simple moving on is just making a post or two while the sub runs its course. There's still a sense of a community you know, even for the forums lol. People still have friends, communities in the game as well. Liam can post about it AND acknowledge that the game is no longer fun for him. It's a shocker, I know.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

This has "Leave that multi-million dollar company alone!" vibes all over it XD XD

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Small multi-dollar company, please understand.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

... I do find it funny how it seems to mostly be newer forum accounts who complain about lack of content though.

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This is a 1.0 account. I never needed to talk on the forum because I actually played the game. But it's just not engaging anymore.

So you're not actively engaged with XIV content, you also listed old content for the most part.

POTD is no longer an acceptable answer, maybe 6 years ago? Wake up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R041

This is a 1.0 account. I never needed to talk on the forum because I actually played the game. But it's just not engaging anymore.

So you're not actively engaged with XIV content, you also listed old content for the most part.

POTD is no longer an acceptable answer, maybe 6 years ago? Wake up.

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And you never felt the need to provide feedback in 1.0?




You don't do ex fights or savage. What content do you do that's missing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Reason is also acknowledging that people who have put thousands of hours into this game, over the course of years, will have obviously strong opinions about what they feel is their (once) favorite game going on a downhill slope with no signs of stopping. Sometimes simple moving on is just making a post or two while the sub runs its course. There's still a sense of a community you know, even for the forums lol. People still have friends, communities in the game as well. Liam can post about it AND acknowledge that the game is no longer fun for him. It's a shocker, I know.

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Sweet Jesus, talk about mental gymnastics. Did you actually read his post? That's a rhetorical question, you'd probably defend some of his language regardless. I saw no mention of community or friends in his post that happens to be located in a thread named "SE: No effort anywhere lately". Nothing "toxic" or "aggressive" about that title. LOL. I'm sure the folks at CB3 will get right on it, have no fear! LMAO

And of course, people are free to post whatever they want. Just as I am free to post my own observations, and if I see someone who has stated that they have no interest in ever returning to the game I feel fine stating that it might be genuinely healthier for them to just take that last step and ACTUALLY move on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R041

This is a 1.0 account. I never needed to talk on the forum because I actually played the game. But it's just not engaging anymore.

So you're not actively engaged with XIV content, you also listed old content for the most part.

POTD is no longer an acceptable answer, maybe 6 years ago? Wake up.

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I played 1.0, quit, came back for ARR and been playing since.

The game is not engaging anymore. The core of this game is small corridors on rails that have no difficulty and you can beat in 15 minutes. There is no exploration, you can't get lost. you can hardly make any mistakes and if you do they are extremely easy to recover, there is no sense of danger in anything that we do. We walk as gods among people in the games storyline. Everyone is scared of us.

The game found success by exploring different things, and once it became successful it stopped doing anything new because the devs thought they had found the correct formula. What they didn't understand is that trying those new things is what made them successful in the first place, not a correct combination of things they could just repeat for 6 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

And of course, people are free to post whatever they want. Just as I am free to post my own observations, and if I see someone who has stated that they have no interest in ever returning to the game I feel fine stating that it might be genuinely healthier for them to just take that last step and ACTUALLY move on.

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Then it may behoove you to choose your words more carefully. Phrasing things in such a way that your underlying thought process isn't so clearly displayed as "criticism bad, game perfect, maybe you should just leave" may be a tad more helpful.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Then it may behoove you to choose your words more carefully. Phrasing things in such a way that your underlying thought process isn't so clearly displayed as "criticism bad, game perfect, maybe you should just leave" may be a tad more helpful.

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I never implied or directly stated that criticism itself was bad or that game was perfect. And the person has already stated that they had left and had no interest in coming back to the game. You're projecting.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And you never felt the need to provide feedback in 1.0?

You don't do ex fights or savage. What content do you do that's missing?

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That's a good question, I know I did provide an insane amount of feedback because it was a horrible experience - But I don't remember how. I think we had several official forms to submit every month or something. I know I posted in the Beta forums too. :confused:

That's all 1 and done, and the MSQ barrier to entry is wild. I don't do Savage anymore actually, so I can't comment on it's longevity. But I shouldn't be shackled to a raid group to find engaging content in a live service game. It's just not built in a way to keep me entertained.

I look at games like WoW and they have a good diversity between keeping casuals and hardcore players engaged not only within their separate environments but also mixed. They also allow easy scaled play with friends lower level than you for almost all content.

I just wish Yoshi had the foresight to realize that as an MMO, we want to play with our friends more and be actively engaged in the world itself. Not just the dialog on the screen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denhith

Sweet Jesus, talk about mental gymnastics. Did you actually read his post? That's a rhetorical question, you'd probably defend some of his language regardless. I saw no mention of community or friends in his post that happens to be located in a thread named "SE: No effort anywhere lately". Nothing "toxic" or "aggressive" about that title. LOL. I'm sure the folks at CB3 will get right on it, have no fear! LMAO

And of course, people are free to post whatever they want. Just as I am free to post my own observations, and if I see someone who has stated that they have no interest in ever returning to the game I feel fine stating that it might be genuinely healthier for them to just take that last step and ACTUALLY move on.

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You really have no sense of nuance, huh?

It does generally feel like they don't really have too much of an idea what they're doing.

One good example of it I would say is the 6.3 PLD nerfs. Because PLD certainly was too strong of a tank.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

smooth jobs with utility and each with their own iconic abilities,

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WoW Forums/Reddit would not agree with that. There are always patch winners/losers and class stacking is usually something "normal" in WoW. FF14 pushes for more even job distribution which does have its downsides.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

proper achievements and collection tabs, ridiculous amounts of soloable old content with rewards and so on.

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You have a lot of achievements and old content here too, most instances can also be run unsynced. What is lacking is proper UI :D

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Got to make the dailies really short.

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If you make them longer and semi-mandatory you will get Thorgast and reasons why people left SL and mostly ended up here :)

Not to mention that forcing people into daily activities that affect player power is IMHO not the best game design. Daily roulette isn't essential and can be skipped while things like the stronger tomestone is weekly capped, not daily. Tribe quests are daily though, but that's optional content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Can't stress the healers and tanks, bland jobs and faceroll dungeons!

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HC raids and M+ healing is fun in WoW. The thing is that game is all about sorting players by their performance and excluding everyone that isn't overqualified for the content. Here it's completely forbidden. Even job stones aren't required, and you are allowed spam Cure I at level 90 dungeon because of reasons I guess. There is no clear winner. WoW and FF14 are completely different games and aim at different players. SE right now focuses on making FF14's main story fully single-player with the duty trust system for example. This isn't something that is happening in WoW but there is actual traffic on "solo wow" variants in the private server scene. It seems most players have a job and after an 8-hour job grind they come online and can't be bothered with too many time sinks ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Can't trust players with addons!

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Addons are double edge swords. Right now you can't really do any non-solo WoW content without addons (you can but then you make it harder only on yourself while the bar will be set with addons in mind so if you fail you will be excluded anyways). SE releases new Savage, Ultimate and you get mechanics solved by addons or weakaura developers which then pushes SE to design fights with addons in mind which leads to more and more absurd difficulty and gradation of players. Completely two different games. Still there can be combat and non-combat addons which is the key issue, not if the addons exist or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Can't have crafting take effort, wanting gil is evil, hand it all over on a plate!

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Not sure what's the problem with crafting here? You can craft actually viable ilvl compared to WoW. Stlll having the new WoW "market board" and work orders in FF would be really handy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Even the story is dull and just there to move the plot forward with a polite overstated "joke scene" thrown in here and there, instead of banter, conflict and real character interaction and development.

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Compared to how WoW has murdered everything it had in terms of characters and lore FF14 is running quite well. 7.0 will be the big turning point determining if they can make new things so it's still possible they end on WoW level or below. And even in Dragonflight you get cinematics where they talk in "cryptic foreshadowing language" because the core story takes 2 years to unfold instead one initial release patch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I never thought I'd play WoW again, but it has been so damn refreshing to load up a game

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You can play any game. Not sure why but people treat MMOs as religion. "You can play only Classic because retail is trash", you can only play WoW because FF14 "is some weeb kupo"... On top of that I would say FF expansion are intended to be played on launch and then most will GTFO till next expansion while WoW has retention metrics obsession (and Shadowlands pushed it over the limit).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I get gold from everything, I can have my addons, there's gear all over the place

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I doubt I get any meaningful gold from WQ, dungeons or raids in WoW, maybe if you DE the gear to then drop some enchants on the AH. Most gold I got was from selling raid BoEs which is kind of dumb, while gold making for a crafter like LW is usually - go farm a lot of mats, craft hundreds of pants, and vendor them.
Gear is everywhere in woW but as the game is all about player grading and player power then the 90% of gear you can get given patch has to low ilvl and ilvl matters a lot while here it's secondary unless you are doing the hardest optional content. And if you don't care about WoW M+ RIO score, your HC/Mythic raid parses then FF14 has the same easy access to average patch gear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

, a million pet battles and toys,

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Toys usually get big cooldowns because fun detected, pet battles is just one mini game and there isn't much other mini games in WoW vs FF14 though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

there's tons of QoL, transmog tabs, so much bag space, crafting from my bank, season events I can spend proper time on

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7.0 will be the turning point for FF14. They can't hide behind "engine limitations" forever. Poor UX/UI, lack of constantly requested features. There are other MMORPG in development, existing ones aren't standing in place either, not to mention other game types. FF14 just ended their Illidan/Lich King/Garrosh storyline and will have to make a new one from scratch not to mention compete on a technical level with more and more competition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharknado

7.0 will be the turning point for FF14. They can't hide behind "engine limitations" forever. Poor UX/UI, lack of constantly requested features. There are other MMORPG in development, existing ones aren't standing in place either, not to mention other game types. FF14 just ended their Illidan/Lich King/Garrosh storyline and will have to make a new one from scratch not to mention compete on a technical level with more and more competition.

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Let's hope so - Hype me says they learned from it and will bring all that experience and energy to XIV.

But there's a very real fear that now that Yoshi and team got a taste of real mainline, maybe they'll just kinda let XIV float in semi-maintenance mode.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R041

Let's hope so - Hype me says they learned from it and will bring all that experience and energy to XIV.

But there's a very real fear that now that Yoshi and team got a taste of real mainline, maybe they'll just kinda let XIV float in semi-maintenance mode.

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The 1 million dollar question is, isnt it already ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R041

Let's hope so - Hype me says they learned from it and will bring all that experience and energy to XIV.

But there's a very real fear that now that Yoshi and team got a taste of real mainline, maybe they'll just kinda let XIV float in semi-maintenance mode.

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The problem imo is the mainline is inferior to the MMO line, seeing as XI was the most profitable game and then XIV took over.... Like? what more do they want from these games, they are some of the most important SE assets ever.

To be blunt, I hope they put FFXIV out to pasture and work on another MMO. Something that plays more like SoP and XVI would be preferable, being more action-oriented than Everquesty. Do away with the concept of the raid and replace it with something more Monster Hunter-esque, where all content can be done solo but supports parties of up to eight (instead of Monster Hunter's four) people. With scaling, of course - otherwise grouping up would practically be a cheat. Might also toss in a handful of things that do require more people, ala Safi'Jiiva.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharknado

Wall of text

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You realize you broke down my entire wall of text to try and tell me why I'm wrong for having fun?

I don't care about ff players myths about WoW being toxic (the community has actually been really nice so far) or logical debates over whether WQ's are really rewarding or not or what the "right" way to enjoy a game is. All I care about is "am I having fun"? In this game the answer is no, even after taking breaks incase of burnout. In other games the answer is yes.

I left my feedback and I'll move on. You can't argue me out of that opinion. I'm not going to read counter-points and suddenly realize "They're right! FF is fun, I've been blind, I love the game now!". The fact is FF14 is no longer enjoyable for me and hasn't been for a long while, breaks or not, but other games are.

Im gonna see how fun is 6.35 gonna be, and if I will be bored, I will also move to wow. Sadge Im gonna need to pay 40 bucks for DF expansion :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Serious question, but are you just here on the forums to be a contrarian?

I've seen you bash the game before, I've seen to critique some of the more outdated bits really heavily, but right now with a lot of people complaining about a lot of the latest releases you're in the exact opposite direct. It's not even sensible half the time, it's literally just pedal to the metal arguing against the whole thread senselessly.

What is your goal if it's not to be contrarian and argumentative?

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Some things I agree with. Some things I don't. I have no interest in being part of a hive mind. I do, however, enjoy discussing the game with other players.

Overall, I see the game positively. No game is going to be perfect but focusing on the negatives of a game doesn't not improve enjoyment of it. Players should at least acknowledge what they are enjoying about the game at the same time they talk about what could be improved.

What always confuses me are those who bash almost every part of the game but then have no problem continuing to pay $15/month to play it. If the game is that bad, why spend money on it instead of spending money on better games? They also rarely bring up examples of other comparable games doing those things better. If they can't offer examples of another game doing it right, then perhaps the real problem is players setting their expectations unrealistically high.

Finally, there's the problem of game age. Any game is going to feel dated after a while. Game developers trying to shake up a game's design formula risk alienating the long time players who had been happy with what the game had been while not attracting enough new players to offset those lost.

On the player side, any game you've played for several years is only going to start feeling easier and easier. You're familiar with the systems, you know what to expect and your skill level has increased compared to how you started. Yet the game itself still must be created to be accessible to the completely new player (not just those new to the specific game but those new to gaming in general). You can't set the skill bar too high or those players quickly drop out because they haven't had the time to build that skill. You can't overload them with mandatory content or they feel they can never get caught up (which has already been acknowledged as a problem with the MSQ and SE has announced they've been making plans to deal with it).

So, where are the examples of games that have addressed the issues that the OP brought up in their initial post in a better way than FFXIV? Are there none? If there are none, is it because the gaming industry is embracing mediocrity in general (in which case, why are gaming consumers continuing to pay to support mediocrity) or is it players setting expectations unrealistically high?

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Originally Posted by Denhith

Sounds like you enjoy WoW. Which, is perfectly fine and all that. Bit strange that you if you are having so much fun in another game you feel the need to come to the forum of the game you no longer play just to bitch about it.

I mean, if you've moved on...then MOVE ON. Trust, it's the healthy thing to do.

Have fun!

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Doesn't mean that moving on is easy to do when you've devoted a number of years to a game.

I had the same problem when I was leaving WoW. And the problem solves itself when game time runs out and you lose the ability to post in the game forums outside of what's available ot trial players.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Exactly! Let people go away from our game, just because they find it boring lately. Thats awesome idea! And it works. I also downloaded wow after so many years and thinking about buying a sub just because every dummy in this forum tells me I should go play other games. And lemme tell, you, Im not gonna play FF for a LOONG time before a catch up with all wow content that released. So cg. Just caps shout everybody, who wants FF14 to improve, so they can have more fun with it, to go away. Let FF die and move on! Was a fun ride while it lasted...

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So then maybe the problem is that you have played this game long enough to get burned out and be in need of something different (but not too different). WoW has changed enough in the past 6 years or so that it probably doesn't feel much like the game a lot of us left because we started to hate it. It will feel fresh and new where FFXIV can't.

Let's hope it doesn't disappoint.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Some things I agree with. Some things I don't. I have no interest in being part of a hive mind. I do, however, enjoy discussing the game with other players.

Overall, I see the game positively. No game is going to be perfect but focusing on the negatives of a game doesn't not improve enjoyment of it. Players should at least acknowledge what they are enjoying about the game at the same time they talk about what could be improved.

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So, where are the examples of games that have addressed the issues that the OP brought up in their initial post in a better way than FFXIV? Are there none? If there are none, is it because the gaming industry is embracing mediocrity in general (in which case, why are gaming consumers continuing to pay to support mediocrity) or is it players setting expectations unrealistically high?



Doesn't mean that moving on is easy to do when you've devoted a number of years to a game.

I had the same problem when I was leaving WoW. And the problem solves itself when game time runs out and you lose the ability to post in the game forums outside of what's available ot trial players.

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I agree with most of what you say, but a clear example, unfortunately, and as much as people want to hate it, WoW. That game has been around since 2004 or so and it still brought huge crowds for Dragon Flight. Sure it's had its failures but it does seem they experiment more than SE does.

I'm not a WoW player, but I know plenty. But it is an example regardless.

The game certainly doesn't feel like it's in maint mode.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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People usually stay, because they make bonds in the game. I know many people, who are legit Limsa AFKers, because they dont feel enjoyement with the game alone, but they enjoy spending their time talking with others. Could they spend less money and do that in games like VRChat? 100%. But they are used to FF style and most of em dont wanna change themselfs.

Other players are taking break. PF on Chaos datacentre is DEAD. Nothing happening.

"Game developers trying to shake up a game's design formula risk alienating the long time players" - not true. Long time players are mad that they dont risk anymore. Or they risk (Islands and Crtieon), but not in engaging way.

I dunno. It feels like you are just madge that others dares to speak, that they dont find current style of game... engaging.