Ungendered sit poses, please?

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Originally Posted by Joven

Because one (hide glam) is a feature that would only affect and be visible those who choose to use it while the other (poses) would be applied across the board and as such will be actively visible for those who wish not to use it, regardless if it's 2 seconds or 20 minutes.

And again, I'm not against more options, just the idea that every emote, pose, what have you has to or needs to be applied to every race/gender.

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They could also just make them into ballroom etiquette emotes or have a new beautician option that will give you the ability to learn/replace some poses and emotes in favor of another. Doesn't need to be applied to everyone...

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

They could also just make them into ballroom etiquette emotes or have a new beautician option that will give you the ability to learn/replace some poses and emotes in favor of another. Doesn't need to be applied to everyone...

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That could work. More selective emotes are always good.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

I propose a solution then, give everyone access to everything.


If that is the case, then the request to unlock content is still a request for uniqueness. What it isn't is asking to get rid of options that we already have. Roes would still have their emotes if they were available to Miqote.


In a game with only 5 or so idle poses per character that are arbitrarily tied to body type, you don't have to look very hard to find repetition. That's the problem with limiting things to Roes or Hyurs, or whatever and what leads to instances where the same idle pose stands out because a dozen people are using it as if they were robots.

Clearly not everyone feels the same way on emotes and poses, but I think I made it clear that the point isn't to take away uniqueness.


It's certainly inspired by real life in a number of ways. All player characters are essentially human or have human traits, and the game attempts to capture the variety seen in people physically in the character creator. All I want is the same to go for personalty. I don't know how you design your own characters but I tend to put a little bit of me into them. In a lot of cases I play the most "normal" race in a game, but in the case of FF14 the mannerisms were so far off I've felt better represented by characters with cat ears and a tail for instance.


You make it sound like asking for what you want is a bad thing. The forum exists partially to receive feedback and apply it to the game. What gave us Viera? Asking. What gave us more variety in outfits? Asking. What gave us more glam plates and dresser space? Asking. Where would we be without making requests? Probably a much worse iteration of FF14.


I don't know why you want to make this political. People ask for something they want, a completely reasonable act, and then there are comments like yours that have to paint it as a conspiracy theory or something. I don't know what ideals you're talking about or who we're conforming to. I just want to enjoy my video game.


Why is it that asking for something is conflated with demanding to have it? Where is the entitlement exactly in trying to improve something you enjoy? Why is there a limit to what we can ask for?

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I think you miss the point. Things as they are are unique. If everyone has access to something regardless of race and gender what was once unique is now no longer. If everyone has access to Roe emotes they are no longer Roe emotes. Theyre everyones. That's the point. I'd rather have more options for each race and gender that are still just for each race and gender. I like that me being a Highlander means something. I have things other races don't. And they have things I don't. N that's ok. Nothing wrong with it nor do I feel that needs to change.

(Highlanders are rare enough as it is anyways)

What's up ner-

https://i.imgur.com/Zki6LEk.gif

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

I propose a solution then, give everyone access to everything.

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This is an extremely tall order. They would need to go back and rework literally hundreds of gear sets from previous expansions and the cash shop, as well as hairstyles and certain character models before they could even come close to parity on features, much less think about adding everything to everyone. We're talking on the scale of in a couple expansions they might be able to have everything ready like you're proposing

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

It's an option that you wouldn't need to apply to yourself, even if it's available to you.

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Where is the option to pick and choose the poses your character cycles through with randomized idle animation?

As long as that option is not in the game, I don't want masculine poses for my female character.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

What's up ner-

https://i.imgur.com/Zki6LEk.gif

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HEEEEY! You brought pizza!

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

HEEEEY! You brought pizza!

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I bet they're all Pineapple

Don't see anything wrong with more options.

If they would in fact be optional and you can pick and choose which idle poses are part of your idle rotation, sure, why not. If you just make them part of the default rotation and force them on everyone, then they wouldn't be optional anymore, then no.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

Not everything need to be for both. Bad enough we have eyesore everywhere now.

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Totally agree. I enjoy when male and female have their own unique aspects.. at least what currently remains.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I bet they're all Pineapple

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We talk about food a lot on the forums. I think I need to go out after work and have a nice relaxing dinner date with myself. I'm thinking...Carrabbas? Red Lobster? I'm hungry.

I'm fine with gendered options.
People don't seem to realize that equal but different poses will give more variety, not less.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

What's up ner-

https://i.imgur.com/Zki6LEk.gif

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Thank you i need the pizza for food coma

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Originally Posted by Renalt

We talk about food a lot on the forums. I think I need to go out after work and have a nice relaxing dinner date with myself. I'm thinking...Carrabbas? Red Lobster? I'm hungry.

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Had to google Carrabbas, the salmon sounds really nice!

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Originally Posted by Renalt

We talk about food a lot on the forums. I think I need to go out after work and have a nice relaxing dinner date with myself. I'm thinking...Carrabbas? Red Lobster? I'm hungry.

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Thanks to a certain user, Food Comes up alot, yeah.
I think its awesome. TREAT YOURSELF

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Originally Posted by Renalt

We talk about food a lot on the forums. I think I need to go out after work and have a nice relaxing dinner date with myself. I'm thinking...Carrabbas? Red Lobster? I'm hungry.

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I was gonna say you should go hit up Outback Steakhouse if there's one nearby, but then I fell asleep.

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

I still don't get why most of races can't hold the axe and spear like M Roe/Hrothgar for example.
They are my favorites

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wait wait wait do hroroe actually have unique war/drg animations?
I need a picture example of a hroth/roe compared to the other races in this case

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

Still battle poses and how you wield a weapon are nothing special and could use to be shared between all races.

Now if you mention something like how the male miqote idle as an example then yeah it should stay for that alone.

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as a whm main I want the femme whm idle so much its cute the male version is so boring

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Originally Posted by XianRo

wait wait wait do hroroe actually have unique war/drg animations?
I need a picture example of a hroth/roe compared to the other races in this case

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https://i.imgur.com/yDBsbVn.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/SSfzxRB.jpeg

As an aside, lalafell also have unique Summoner/Scholar stances compared to the other races.

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...599f243135.png

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

https://i.imgur.com/yDBsbVn.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/SSfzxRB.jpeg

As an aside, lalafell also have unique Summoner/Scholar stances compared to the other races.

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...599f243135.png

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See I thought erry warrior had the same pose I see so many War in roulettes and its never looked any different to me.
I DID know about lala arcs bc of tataru in the 4 Lords instance but Im just thunderstruck hroth/roe have unique Big Weapon poses.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

How does supporting femininity make me a misogynist? Do you even know what this word means? Clearly you do not, and love to use buzz words instead of thinking for yourself.

I am expressing an opinion, and if you want to spend time on the internet, I would highly suggest learning to deal that there are people who not only do not support your views, but outright oppose them.


Not that simple. There is currently not an option to avoid using particular poses. If this was a thing, and I want my character to cpose after several seconds, she would do this. Not to mention what online pervs would do if my character was in this position, and I decide to afk using a sitting pose at the MGS while waiting for jumbo cacpot to run.


Stop making mountains out of molehills. Also learn that constructive feedback =/= only feedback that agrees with the OP. I happen to like to sit. I usually do it when I AFK for a bio break, to grab a drink, or when I am putting together a gathering list for a crafting session. Why should I lose this because some players want their female characters to behave like dudes, while the option exists for you to just select a male avatar?

The lot of you need to realize that not everyone is on board the agenda to abolish gender norms, especially when it comes to development time in FFXIV. I would sooner have them unlock the cposes that are exclusive to other races, but I don't really support that either.

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"Not to mention what online pervs would do if my character was in this position" Geez, just pixels just saying. That said would having to cycle through cpose be that much of a hassle? No dog in this race, but not wanting to cycle through cpose seems like a rather silly reason to say no to this.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

https://i.imgur.com/yDBsbVn.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/SSfzxRB.jpeg

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Can we start refering to male roes as "he-roes"?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

"Not to mention what online pervs would do if my character was in this position" Geez, just pixels just saying. That said would having to cycle through cpose be that much of a hassle? No dog in this race, but not wanting to cycle through cpose seems like a rather silly reason to say no to this.

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Let me ask this, why should others be forced to cycle through cpose? Why demand something that a select few want, and now everyone has to deal with, whether they like it or not?

Demanding new options/features should never inconvenience people that do not want them. If you make the new poses simply part of the rotation, instead of selectable, then you're forcing everyone who don't want that pose for their character, to always cycle past that particular pose and/or also turn of idle cycling, so they never have to deal with it.

If we one day get an idle rotation selection and can actually choose our idle poses, then add whatever you want, the more the merrier. But forcing them on everyone, because you personally want that for your character? I will always disagree with that.

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Originally Posted by Barachim

Let me ask this, why should others be forced to cycle through cpose? Why demand something that a select few want, and now everyone has to deal with, whether they like it or not?

Demanding new options/features should never inconvenience people that do not want them. If you make the new poses simply part of the rotation, instead of selectable, then you're forcing everyone who don't want that pose for their character, to always cycle past that particular pose and/or also turn of idle cycling, so they never have to deal with it.

If we one day get an idle rotation selection and can actually choose our idle poses, then add whatever you want, the more the merrier. But forcing them on everyone, because you personally want that for your character? I will always disagree with that.

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We going to say cycling through cpose is an inconvenience? That is a stretch I cycle through it all the time.

Edit inc

Though to answer your question, normally communities function around compromise at times one is asked to give up certain conveniences as a means to allow the greatest number of people a generally pleasant experience. In the end I do not feel having to cycle through cpose is that large of an inconvenience to warrant denying those that would like to use certain poses. Now if you fall in the camp where you feel certain things should remain exclusive that is a different matter altogether.

It is not like you have to log out to change you pose, it is just a simple cycle probably takes all of what 2 or 3 seconds if that? Is this the hill we really want to stand on? Lets not add something cause it will take an extra 2-3 seconds out of my life? Even if we say you do it once a day at 3 seconds for 100 days that is like what 5 min total? Are we going to say 5 min over a 100 days is worth saying no to something like this? Even if you sit down six times a day and have to cycle through it that is still what 30 mins over the course of 100 days? No matter how you break it seems like a petty gripe.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Though to answer your question, normally communities function around compromise at times one is asked to give up certain conveniences as a means to allow the greatest number of people a generally pleasant experience.

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And are we dealing with such a case right now?

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Originally Posted by Barachim

And are we dealing with such a case right now?

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I would say so. Even if you want to view it as a inconveniences, and say it takes a solid 10 seconds to get through cpose to find the one you prefer, and they do it 180 times a day, I would say losing out on 30 min of gameplay per day is worth giving up so more overall people can enjoy the sit animation that matches their desired preference. It is not like people are asking for a replacement, just an addition so everyone will be on the same foot having to use cpose to get to their desired cpose.

Seems like a worthy compromise imo. Though still not seeing how cycling through cpose is a hassle or inconvenience.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Seems like a worthy compromise imo. Though still not seeing how cycling through cpose is a hassle or inconvenience.

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Are you just going to ignore the setting that automatically cycles through every cpose? Not everyone picks one pose nor should they have to. You want to remove the ability to automatically cycle through feminine poses from female characters. That's not a case of "just ignore what others are doing with their character if you don't like it".

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Are you just going to ignore the setting that automatically cycles through every cpose? Not everyone picks one pose nor should they have to. You want to remove the ability to automatically cycle through feminine poses from female characters. That's not a case of "just ignore what others are doing with their character if you don't like it".

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does that work on sitting cposes? i thought that was just idling cposes.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Are you just going to ignore the setting that automatically cycles through every cpose? Not everyone picks one pose nor should they have to. You want to remove the ability to automatically cycle through feminine poses from female characters. That's not a case of "just ignore what others are doing with their character if you don't like it".

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As I said let us say it takes 10 seconds to get to the pose you want, (which it does not) and you do it 180 times a day that is what 1800 seconds, which is 30 min total. Are you saying losing out on 30 minutes per day is so painful to you that you cannot agree with allowing people access to the same pool of poses? Weird hill to die on but cool.

Also, if you are going to say seeing your female character use a male pose for split second is at the core a major issue then IDK what to say to that expect . . . okay.

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Originally Posted by Zomkei

does that work on sitting cposes? i thought that was just idling cposes.

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The slippery slope argument kicked in and everyone forgot the original point was about sitting poses.

Yeah. This was about sitting poses. Unlocking 2 poses per gender so everyone can use 4 poses. That's it. This is not about the removal of racial animations, or the homogenization of racial animations.

It's just ungendering 4 sit poses. That's it. It's not even that difficult of a request, and with what they've outlined previously with regards to how they scale animations across races and genders in fairly recent dev logs, it wouldn't be much work at all.

In this interview with the lead technical artist, they outline the fact that they intentionally make tools to streamline the process of transferring everything across different races and genders.

https://i.postimg.cc/wv9sB79c/Screen...017-Chrome.jpg
This is them talking about their role in the programming and the specific tool for equipment.

When they bring up the issue with swimming and animation anchoring, they use this graph.

https://i.postimg.cc/j2FWvcPZ/Screen...251-Chrome.jpg
They were talking about camera anchoring but it shows that all they do is scale the same animation across similar skeletons/rigs, which is why the movements are the same for universal animations and poses.

It is really not asking a lot of them to do this for the poses they gendered. It would just be scaling the male ones to female models, and female ones to male models. Add in 2 more /cposes per character and there you go.

You retain everything we have currently while getting two more that you didn't have previously.

It's the absolute bare minimum thing to ask for with regards to neutrally gendered animations and increased options for expression. It is 4 sit poses.

That's it.

No racial poses, just the four new, universal by gender poses available for everyone regardless of gender. You'd only have to cycle through two more.

Preferably, I'd want the system reworked so I could opt out of existing stuff, but that's not what we have.

All I'm literally asking for is that the 4 new poses be universal instead of 2 male and 2 female.

tl;dr - so maybe already suggested : just add a checkbox in character options "display ungendered pose" (uncheck by default)

That way you can choose if you want to use them or not.
If you don't want to see them, that's on you.

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Originally Posted by Calysto

tl;dr - so maybe already suggested : just add a checkbox in character options "display ungendered pose" (uncheck by default)

That way you can choose if you want to use them or not.
If you don't want to see them, that's on you.

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This is exactly what I've been advocating for. Exactly this. I would preferably want an opt-in/opt-out system for poses. At the bare minimum, just unlock 4 poses. But ideally: this is the system that a lot of people would prefer, including - hilariously - the people arguing against seeing their character in non-conforming poses.

A brief summary of this thread's history:

OP: "I would like the 4 new sit poses to be available for everybody :)"

"Gross! My female Hyur manspreading!"

OP: "We wouldn't be losing existing choices, just expanding on what we already have. We can add a toggle or--"

"Not everything needs to be neutral! Races and genders should be distinct!"

OP: "I just asked for sit poses that are already universal."

"Viera already have nothing and now you want our hair, ears, emotes, laugh, walk cycle, etc."

"No, I want the 4 new sit poses everybody has anyway."

"Why should I play Viera when it's the inferior option?"

OP: "..."

(somewhere in the distance out of nowhere)

"Men in dresses are an ugly eyesore ruining my bubble pink catgirl's immersion. You make everything about politics!"

The problem with checkboxes and opt in/out ideas is that any choice you make is another piece of character data that needs to be transmitted to every other person you interact with, and their choices transmitted to you.

The current system only needs to relay a single piece of information about your pose: a specific number (say, 0-4, where 0 means randomise and 1-4 indicate specific poses). Change that to a customisable list and now you need a different structure of information: 0: yes/no, 1: yes/no, etc. – you need a lot more information, especially once you multiply it by everyone on your screen, and it increases if more poses are added.

In the grand scheme of things, that would be better used for transmitting more actual details of how our character looks, rather than micromanaging a list of poses where the simpler option is just to pick one that you like. (Or, as I said earlier, fix it so you can type a text command to manually change to the pose you want.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The problem with checkboxes and opt in/out ideas is that any choice you make is another piece of character data that needs to be transmitted to every other person you interact with, and their choices transmitted to you.

The current system only needs to relay a single piece of information about your pose: a specific number (say, 0-4, where 0 means randomise and 1-4 indicate specific poses). Change that to a customisable list and now you need a different structure of information: 0: yes/no, 1: yes/no, etc. – you need a lot more information, especially once you multiply it by everyone on your screen, and it increases if more poses are added.

In the grand scheme of things, that would be better used for transmitting more actual details of how our character looks, rather than micromanaging a list of poses where the simpler option is just to pick one that you like. (Or, as I said earlier, fix it so you can type a text command to manually change to the pose you want.)

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See, this is a valid criticism of it because it would end up being a lot compared to the system we currently have. I was thinking based on the current minion and mount roulettes - which wouldn't be from scratch - and how they've been adding /cpose to stuff like fashion accessories. For the randomized toggle, I figured it'd be easier to just use a favorite poses system (like mount roulette) but that is a fair restriction that could cause issues.

It would be ideal, but I don't know how much work a rework would be in the end since I'm never going to know their workflow for this kind of thing, even with how transparent they are. I absolutely am on board with the numbering of cposes so you can skip to the one you want, though. I wish it was that if we have to stick to the current system! It's definitely preferable to missing the one you want and having to cycle back through everything all over again.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I think you miss the point. Things as they are are unique. If everyone has access to something regardless of race and gender what was once unique is now no longer. If everyone has access to Roe emotes they are no longer Roe emotes. Theyre everyones. That's the point. I'd rather have more options for each race and gender that are still just for each race and gender. I like that me being a Highlander means something. I have things other races don't. And they have things I don't. N that's ok. Nothing wrong with it nor do I feel that needs to change.

(Highlanders are rare enough as it is anyways)

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This is starting to get tangled in semantics. I originally replied to you because you said that the side wanting more options/unlocks was against uniqueness. I explained why that was wrong. We can disagree on what contributes to feelings of uniqueness, but I don't think there is any avoid that many asking for expanded options are doing it to break away from the conformity created by locked emotes.

When it comes to race uniqueness though, are poses really the biggest contributor on the list? What about looks? If poses were universal, a highlander is still going to stick out from an aura exactly as much.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

This is an extremely tall order. They would need to go back and rework literally hundreds of gear sets from previous expansions and the cash shop, as well as hairstyles and certain character models before they could even come close to parity on features, much less think about adding everything to everyone. We're talking on the scale of in a couple expansions they might be able to have everything ready like you're proposing

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Some things take time. FF14 is an evolving game anyway. It's typically a good sign if the developers are making improvements. I'd much rather see that they have plans for the future instead of just leaving old flaws unaddressed. With there being a planned graphics overhaul, this might even be the ideal time to work on these things.

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Originally Posted by Barachim

Let me ask this, why should others be forced to cycle through cpose? Why demand something that a select few want, and now everyone has to deal with, whether they like it or not?

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What makes you think it's only a select few that wants more options? Also what about the people that are inconvenienced now by the selection of poses? There is probably a range of opinions between "I like everything about every pose" and "I will not use auto cpose at all".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The current system only needs to relay a single piece of information about your pose: a specific number (say, 0-4, where 0 means randomise and 1-4 indicate specific poses). Change that to a customisable list and now you need a different structure of information: 0: yes/no, 1: yes/no, etc. – you need a lot more information, especially once you multiply it by everyone on your screen, and it increases if more poses are added.

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You might know more than me, but I don't see why a custom list would require more data to be sent. If what currently happens is sending one of 5 numbers, wouldn't a list just add a 6th or greater number to the same packet of data?

I think this would have to be the case with poses especially because we can select them manually. Every time we do, that information needs to be sent to the server. I'd think auto cpose would do the same thing. It doesn't send the entire list including which poses it's not currently using, it just sends info on what pose is in use.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

A brief summary of this thread's history:

OP: "I would like the 4 new sit poses to be available for everybody :)"

"Gross! My female Hyur manspreading!"

OP: "We wouldn't be losing existing choices, just expanding on what we already have. We can add a toggle or--"

"Not everything needs to be neutral! Races and genders should be distinct!"

OP: "I just asked for sit poses that are already universal."

"Viera already have nothing and now you want our hair, ears, emotes, laugh, walk cycle, etc."

"No, I want the 4 new sit poses everybody has anyway."

"Why should I play Viera when it's the inferior option?"

OP: "..."

(somewhere in the distance out of nowhere)

"Men in dresses are an ugly eyesore ruining my bubble pink catgirl's immersion. You make everything about politics!"

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https://i.postimg.cc/gjf5V9Ss/8b7.jpg

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Originally Posted by crystallineAbyss

It is really not asking a lot of them to do this for the poses they gendered. It would just be scaling the male ones to female models, and female ones to male models. Add in 2 more /cposes per character and there you go.

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You may have noticed that one of the shared poses depend on the rough character height, meaning it wouldn't be as simple as "just scale it", at the end of the day it doesn't matter how simple or not simple it would be, it's extra workload, and you can live without it.