Dear Squeenix: Instead of using FOMO to promote PVP...

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Sure, if you provide the time machine to people who werent playing the game at all at the time. I guess they should have just worked harder.

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Moogle events are the time machines / content skips.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Moogle events are the time machines / content skips.

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One can only hope so. I wish SE would just state how/if/when things like the CC battlepass rewards are going to be reintroduced.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I stopped playing CC this series as soon as I got the mount. :p I have no use of the already too much currency I have.

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*And cant buy anything fancy or limited with it.

What is the CC and Rival Wings yall keep talking about?

They are not on roulette and so they don't exist.

If the devs wanted us to play those they would add a roulette. Like...2 hours of coding. Tops.

Woah. Make way for the expert. :rolleyes:

SE should have never paid attention to the squeaky wheels on the forum back during the downtime between 1.0 and ARR who wanted battlegrounds because "all the other MMOs have it". And now that the game does have this particular albatross, unironically, they shouldn't be putting up any roadblocks to win trading for modes where there are broadly available, important rewards in content a questionable amount of the playerbase even enjoys. All that does is force people that would have kept their loot & scoot to themselves into disaffected bodies paying zero attention who will drag you down every match.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

What is the CC and Rival Wings yall keep talking about?

They are not on roulette and so they don't exist.

If the devs wanted us to play those they would add a roulette. Like...2 hours of coding. Tops.

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Jokes on you you can find CC matches almost always in less than 5min, at least on my datacentre. So i guess it exists for enough people but if you aren't one of them, well if that works for you then great. I most certainly enjoy my CC matches.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

...why don't you make PvP actually fun to play?

I know that's a radical notion for you guys, but at least give it some consideration.

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Fun is subjective. What specifically would make it fun for you?

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Fun is subjective. What specifically would make it fun for you?

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Functional

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

What is the CC and Rival Wings yall keep talking about?

They are not on roulette and so they don't exist.

If the devs wanted us to play those they would add a roulette. Like...2 hours of coding. Tops.

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Is this a meme?

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

What is the CC and Rival Wings yall keep talking about?

They are not on roulette and so they don't exist.

If the devs wanted us to play those they would add a roulette. Like...2 hours of coding. Tops.

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It is odd the only PvP roulette we have is Frontline and that's not even really a roulette.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

The crystal conflict battle pass already doesnt have a money entry, if they remove the expiry aswell it would have nothing left of what makes battle passes so annoying. It would be just the same as experience points. The time to reach rank 25 for the top reward is already very long. There is no bragging rights with it already, might aswell make them unlimited time. Unless someone wants to tell me the archfiend armor and the dragon mount are being put into some other content, then it's whatever.

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they'll probably be put in the store at some point

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Originally Posted by R041

Functional

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I agree, it definitely is that.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Fun is subjective. What specifically would make it fun for you?

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Not being forced to team with randos would be a great start. Also having rules that actually make sense and not feeling like every death against you is the result of something cheap and unfair. How about not being screamed at by someone who fancies themselves the world's greatest shotcaller but is just being a jerk in alliance chat?

Honestly, I have more fun playing Mahjong than I do trying to unravel the nightmare that is FFXIV PvP.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Fun is subjective. What specifically would make it fun for you?

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Being able to queue in a party with friends in casual CC.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Not being forced to team with randos would be a great start. Also having rules that actually make sense and not feeling like every death against you is the result of something cheap and unfair. How about not being screamed at by someone who fancies themselves the world's greatest shotcaller but is just being a jerk in alliance chat?

Honestly, I have more fun playing Mahjong than I do trying to unravel the nightmare that is FFXIV PvP.

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The thing about FF XIV PvP is that it is very, VERY objective focused. Unfortunately, far too many people fail to understand this and decide to zerg another team from start to finish, all the while feeding points to the opposition. This is why you see people that are seemingly aggressive in Frontlines chats. They are tired of losing, and I don't blame them. Obviously, some take it too far, and that is never okay. But I think you need to understand why people tend to be like this. Personally, I stopped doing Frontlines entirely, and I only really tolerate CC because the difference between a win and a loss is negligible, and the matches are usually pretty quick. Every so often the people I get grouped with actually know what they are doing, so I enjoy that while it lasts, but I see the same mentality that I saw in Frontlines pretty often regardless.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The thing about FF XIV PvP is that it is very, VERY objective focused. Unfortunately, far too many people fail to understand this and decide to zerg another team from start to finish, all the while feeding points to the opposition. This is why you see people that are seemingly aggressive in Frontlines chats. They are tired of losing, and I don't blame them. Obviously, some take it too far, and that is never okay. But I think you need to understand why people tend to be like this. Personally, I stopped doing Frontlines entirely, and I only really tolerate CC because the difference between a win and a loss is negligible, and the matches are usually pretty quick. Every so often the people I get grouped with actually know what they are doing, so I enjoy that while it lasts, but I see the same mentality that I saw in Frontlines pretty often regardless.

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For bonus points, play a SCH for CC. You are pretty much only a support as SCH, because the only kills you're getting are going to be the last tags from your DoT or if you're lucky enough for your Broil to be the last thing registering on an enemy. Otherwise you exist purely for setup, with a mitigation/damage buff, a DoT/damage debuff, and a healing debuff. Your team not running with what you're setting up? Resign yourself to the loss. Your team running with it? Well, you're in for a fun match.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The thing about FF XIV PvP is that it is very, VERY objective focused. Unfortunately, far too many people fail to understand this and decide to zerg another team from start to finish, all the while feeding points to the opposition. This is why you see people that are seemingly aggressive in Frontlines chats. They are tired of losing, and I don't blame them. Obviously, some take it too far, and that is never okay. But I think you need to understand why people tend to be like this. Personally, I stopped doing Frontlines entirely, and I only really tolerate CC because the difference between a win and a loss is negligible, and the matches are usually pretty quick. Every so often the people I get grouped with actually know what they are doing, so I enjoy that while it lasts, but I see the same mentality that I saw in Frontlines pretty often regardless.

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I am also tired of losing. Very, very, very, VERY tired of losing.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I am also tired of losing. Very, very, very, VERY tired of losing.

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That's because there's no real incentive to grind out a win. In ranked you only derank to a certain level and in casual, you get 700 Series EXP per defeat and 900 Series EXP per victory regardless of how long the game takes. Not to mention the lack of fixed composition or team queue means you often get sub-optimal teams. Win or lose, the reward structure rewards doing it quickly rather than grinding out a result as losing 20 games quickly is worth more Series XP than winning 15 games slowly.

regarding the topic:

At the current rate we have like 3-4 months per Series. In 1-2 years thats is maybe 5-7 Series. Then after that time just call it something like Series 1a and 1b,2a -2b etc., let them have different rewards, let players pick which one they want to do, they can only choose one at that time. So either you play to get e.g. the Archfiend Set again, or you get the new glam set of that season, if you choose the Archfiend Set you will have to wait 1-2 years to play for the other Set again, but then there would be another 3rd reward already for Series 1c.

If you miss out completely some of those 5-7 Series per cycle, you would be allowed to continue with 1-2 missed Series after you completed the current one, to let people have some catchup mechanic when they didnt play for a longer time, but this shouldnt include all Series, there has to be some downside to it if you don't play for a very long time.

Fomo is alright as concept for Ranked imo. But not for this casual Series structure, it doesn't need to be that restrictive.

If they made past feast mounts buyable with trophy crystals, people would be so hyped for pvp, that it would be popping all the time. This a is 100% guaranteed outcome, I know people that earned those mounts would like to keep the exclusivity but truth is of all players, less than 0.1% have them.

Casual pops around the day, Ranked is dead on water without things that separate it from Casual.

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Originally Posted by Johners

That's because there's no real incentive to grind out a win. In ranked you only derank to a certain level and in casual, you get 700 Series EXP per defeat and 900 Series EXP per victory regardless of how long the game takes. Not to mention the lack of fixed composition or team queue means you often get sub-optimal teams. Win or lose, the reward structure rewards doing it quickly rather than grinding out a result as losing 20 games quickly is worth more Series XP than winning 15 games slowly.

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So people are throwing? Good to know that's why I'm losing so much.

It's doesn't make losing any less frustrating.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

So people are throwing? Good to know that's why I'm losing so much.

It's doesn't make losing any less frustrating.

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Purposely throwing a match is a ToS violation, so I think that some people just do the bare minimum, even if it's just getting KO'ed and running back ad nauseam. They are technically making an attempt, just not a good one. But I do think that a lot of people just don't understand that FF XIV PvP isn't just player vs player.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Purposely throwing a match is a ToS violation, so I think that some people just do the bare minimum, even if it's just getting KO'ed and running back ad nauseam. They are technically making an attempt, just not a good one. But I do think that a lot of people just don't understand that FF XIV PvP isn't just player vs player.

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I've had plenty of games this weekend, grinding out my PvP Series rank last minute, in which people are clearly throwing by just fighting near the point and magically letting someone push the crystal... not that I'd blame them for it. It's 700 Series EXP for a defeat and 900 for a victory. Statistically it's better to lose fast and queue again than it is to push 3+ minutes of overtime and win (assuming you even win by doing that).

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Originally Posted by Johners

I've had plenty of games this weekend, grinding out my PvP Series rank last minute, in which people are clearly throwing by just fighting near the point and magically letting someone push the crystal... not that I'd blame them for it. It's 700 Series EXP for a defeat and 900 for a victory. Statistically it's better to lose fast and queue again than it is to push 3+ minutes of overtime and win (assuming you even win by doing that).

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Right, but if they are still participating it is hard to prove intent. And they know this, I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Purposely throwing a match is a ToS violation, so I think that some people just do the bare minimum, even if it's just getting KO'ed and running back ad nauseam. They are technically making an attempt, just not a good one. But I do think that a lot of people just don't understand that FF XIV PvP isn't just player vs player.

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I have seen multiple times people intentionally throwing or just plainly giving up. It was usually accompanied by "good game" spam or whatever, if I am not mistaken. Anyway, a fool proof way of throwing and trying to skirt a ban is just to play bad; who is going to prove it? Although, yeah, there can be some really bad players.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Anyway, a fool proof way of throwing and trying to skirt a ban is just to play bad; who is going to prove it?

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I'd imagine that there's more than a few people who do exactly this.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

...why don't you make PvP actually fun to play?

I know that's a radical notion for you guys, but at least give it some consideration.

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Instead of making a thread, that tell us nothing, can you explain how is CC unfun? I would like to hear that, instead of this bait

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Purposely throwing a match is a ToS violation, so I think that some people just do the bare minimum, even if it's just getting KO'ed and running back ad nauseam. They are technically making an attempt, just not a good one. But I do think that a lot of people just don't understand that FF XIV PvP isn't just player vs player.

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Throwing matches is a norm and has been since Feast days. It's incredibly easy to get into the same match as your friends and throw to help their ranks go up if you end up on opposing teams. ToS violation or not, people are actively doing it. This is why I'm very firm against a legit ranked competition coming back with exclusive rewards behind it because it will just become Feast 2.0 even more than it already is.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Instead of making a thread, that tell us nothing, can you explain how is CC unfun? I would like to hear that, instead of this bait

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Good question, I keep seeing the notion something being not fun, but generally when asked about it they often fail to identify their actual issue and just keep going in circles, leading ultimately to no changes at all or to changes that may lead to "see you guys did the thing and it is still bad, just remove it".

Players are good at identifying that there is a problem for them to begin with.
They are really bad at identifying what the real issue for them is let alone what solution would even work.

Game design ez btw just press some buttons.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Throwing matches is a norm and has been since Feast days. It's incredibly easy to get into the same match as your friends and throw to help their ranks go up if you end up on opposing teams. ToS violation or not, people are actively doing it. This is why I'm very firm against a legit ranked competition coming back with exclusive rewards behind it because it will just become Feast 2.0 even more than it already is.

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Sure, we can take that as an argument. But that was mainly, because not many ppl actually played Feast, so PvP culture was very small and it was much more easy to see same ppl over and over again.

But now, CC is actually big. It made PvP casual friendly. Nobody throws ranked now, its dead completly, because there is literally 0 reason to do it. Why would you do dead ranked with 0 rewards, when you can just quee casuals and actually get matches? PvP community is now much bigger, that if they made ranked alive by giving it rewards, actually trying to wintrade with current quee changes would be much more harder than it was during feast.

Ppl who throw casuals are ppl like Jamie, who plays PvP just because they wanted to get that series mount. But those players would never compete in ranked, because of skill issues.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Sure, we can take that as an argument. But that was mainly, because not many ppl actually played Feast, so PvP culture was very small and it was much more easy to see same ppl over and over again.

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And this didn't stop it from happening even in CC season 1 where the mode was the most active :p And not nearly everyone got punished for it even when a few did

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Sure, we can take that as an argument. But that was mainly, because not many ppl actually played Feast, so PvP culture was very small and it was much more easy to see same ppl over and over again.

But now, CC is actually big. It made PvP casual friendly. Nobody throws ranked now, its dead completly, because there is literally 0 reason to do it. Why would you do dead ranked with 0 rewards, when you can just quee casuals and actually get matches? PvP community is now much bigger, that if they made ranked alive by giving it rewards, actually trying to wintrade with current quee changes would be much more harder than it was during feast.

Ppl who throw casuals are ppl like Jamie, who plays PvP just because they wanted to get that series mount. But those players would never compete in ranked, because of skill issues.

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The weird thing is that a good ranked structure would help people who arent good at pvp far more than an unrestricted casual queue. Ideally a ranked structure groups you up with people of your skill level, making matches a lot more balanced than grouping up the worst silver 3 fools on one team and the best crystal 1 nerds on the other.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Sure, we can take that as an argument. But that was mainly, because not many ppl actually played Feast, so PvP culture was very small and it was much more easy to see same ppl over and over again.

But now, CC is actually big. It made PvP casual friendly. Nobody throws ranked now, its dead completly, because there is literally 0 reason to do it. Why would you do dead ranked with 0 rewards, when you can just quee casuals and actually get matches? PvP community is now much bigger, that if they made ranked alive by giving it rewards, actually trying to wintrade with current quee changes would be much more harder than it was during feast.

Ppl who throw casuals are ppl like Jamie, who plays PvP just because they wanted to get that series mount. But those players would never compete in ranked, because of skill issues.

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I mean, something as simple as rank flexing is enough reward for some. Look at those who pay for a carry through ultimate just for the ability to wear the title as an example.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Sure, we can take that as an argument. But that was mainly, because not many ppl actually played Feast, so PvP culture was very small and it was much more easy to see same ppl over and over again.

But now, CC is actually big. It made PvP casual friendly. Nobody throws ranked now, its dead completly, because there is literally 0 reason to do it. Why would you do dead ranked with 0 rewards, when you can just quee casuals and actually get matches? PvP community is now much bigger, that if they made ranked alive by giving it rewards, actually trying to wintrade with current quee changes would be much more harder than it was during feast.

Ppl who throw casuals are ppl like Jamie, who plays PvP just because they wanted to get that series mount. But those players would never compete in ranked, because of skill issues.

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Did you just accuse me of throwing?
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/..._908223010.png

Maybe they should use more FOMO, there were less Crystal ranks than top 100 players on Light last Season.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Did you just accuse me of throwing?
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/..._908223010.png

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I think what they mean to imply is that you are not very good at pvp which in turn could easily make the people that are playing with you think it was infact you that is throwing the same way you think they are the ones throwing.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

Maybe they should use more FOMO, there were less Crystal ranks than top 100 players on Light last Season.

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No rewards, no incentive.
I didn't bother aiming for Crystal rank last season either. I already got Crystal for multiple seasons and the only thing that changed was a logo that went from I to III.

I might try this season just for the new map, but still, no rewards. No actual reason to do it competitively. I can sink my time doing other stuff that has more rewards.

PvP does need less FOMO, since it is pretty heavily luck based as it is as you have to get randomly assigned competent teammates.

The main incentive there really is to do PvP is the Series rewards, and having somewhat limited time to suffer through those few hundred CC matches to get them makes it even less fun.


Ranked is even less fun, since you can keep losing them stars to no fault of your own.