Add iLevel restrictions to Alliance Roulette

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah I think ultimately the whole misconception of the frequency of CT raids on roulettes due to ilv cheese is in truth the most minor of contributors . What we have currently is fine and works for what is intended (although I still stand by the case of moving CT to msq roulette) and if you really have an issue of doing CT on roulette, nothing is stopping you from leaving. You have 3 strikes per day for doing it and most people dont mind taking one regardless.

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Not from leaving once inside the duty. You can cancel your queue once it pops 3 times, but if you're already inside a duty and decide to bail, that's insta-30m penalty for you.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

Then when they see harder raids, they just simply take the 30min penalty instead. Well, the first guy at least. The rest get the free ticket out and get to requeue instantly for a very high chance at getting the ultra simple & quick run they want.

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Good, they should pop the queue to a higher raid and leave instead of pulling other people to level 50 raids with their tricks. Cheesers get a penalty, a new queue time or a lower reward and people who didn't cheese get a normal reward. There are literally no downsides. A handful of people leaving a 24 man does not matter in the slightest. It happens all the time.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

The solution with the least amount of potential issues is to siphon CT off into its own roulette and keep it with the rewards it does now for current alliance. People sick of CT get to stay away from it, people who want the ultra easy runs get to have them, and anyone on either side willing to put up with what the other roulette entails will get to double their rewards for the day. Wins all around.

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False. Ilvl cheesers will do it again to get only Void Ark and then everyone is stuck there every day. The best thing to do is to discourage cheesing altogether by making it less rewarding than not cheesing.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Not from leaving once inside the duty. You can cancel your queue once it pops 3 times, but if you're already inside a duty and decide to bail, that's insta-30m penalty for you.

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Im just speaking from experience. I often see disgruntled players leave the raid and take the penalty rather than just clear the content. People just rather waste their own time.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Good, they should pop the queue to a higher raid and leave instead of pulling other people to level 50 raids with their tricks. Cheesers get a penalty, a new queue time or a lower reward and people who didn't cheese get a normal reward. There are literally no downsides. A handful of people leaving a 24 man does not matter in the slightest. It happens all the time.

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I think you seriously fail to realize how little people care about the 30min penalty - people did it all the time pre-Praetorium /Castrum rework because people wanted to fish for Prae and 30mins was literally nothing. Or how the moment an extreme shows up in mentor roulette, you usually have some people bail. They'll queue at full ilvl so their reward is guaranteed to be maxed, then leave if its not an easy one. You aren't punishing them in the slightest, as much as you want to want to believe otherwise. Also like I said, it only affects the first person to leave. The rest of the people who were hoping for CT in the raid get a free out and zero punishment.

You also fail to realize that outside of tanks, the queue for alliance is only like 5mins long. a NIER raid can be 40mins. It'd literally be faster to drop the raid, re-queue and bank on literally anything else popping, since even with a re-queue + clear time of say, Srycus, it's still only 20mins, compared to NIER's double that.

Again, your idea has literally no affect on the people you want it to have an affect on. Cheesers will just queue at max ilvl instead for max reward, then leave if they don't like it since 30mins is literally nothing as a punishment, all because statistically, even with ilvl cheese negated, you're still likely to get CT 80% of the time anyway due to ilvl cheesing being such a minor issue compared to the other 5 factors all heavily biasing CT in the roulette and its a safe gamble to make. The only people your idea hurts at all are the innocent who have to deal with leavers, no matter how easy or uneasy it may be to re-fill their ranks. Even doubly so if its late at night and certain roles can be harder to find.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

False. Ilvl cheesers will do it again to get only Void Ark and then everyone is stuck there every day. The best thing to do is to discourage cheesing altogether by making it less rewarding than not cheesing.

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Except they can't guarantee void ark, and Mhach would be a potential option since you can only queue for a roulette if you qualify for at least 2 instances, which would be a far cry from the ilvl cheese of CT/Srycus guaranteeing 2 ultra easy instances. Your statement also implies those people are willing to do 2 alliance raid roulettes a day, when most people I've heard from who ilvl cheese have varying degrees of 'I do it because I have limited playtime and want a quick instance'.

Plus, unlike CT that is forced mandatory for every player, ilvl cheese will have a much lesser impact on the non-CT roulette by virtue of what people has unlocked will play a much bigger role since everything is optional. If even one person you get matched with doesn't have Void Ark unlocked, you won't be seeing it.

People can try and 5000 iq play with their ideas all they want, but Occam's Razor is at play here. Especially when you factor in the fact the devs don't care about ilvl cheesing, since CT is the only raid series that is required by story and thus, are the only queues they want to make sure are constantly filled for new players. If they do any solution, they'll go with the easiest one; just make it its own roulette since its the least amount of time on their end, instead of having to create some complex system that will still be exploited easily anyhow.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

The only people your idea hurts at all are the innocent who have to deal with leavers, no matter how easy or uneasy it may be to re-fill their ranks. Even doubly so if its late at night and certain roles can be harder to find.

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No "innocent" (lmao) is hurting when a couple of people leave an alliance roulette. The main thing is the cheesers pop something else than CT, what they do after that doesn't matter. It sounds like you think I care about what people do after leaving the instance but I don't.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

Cheesers will just queue at max ilvl instead for max reward, then leave if they don't like it since 30mins is literally nothing as a punishment, all because statistically, even with ilvl cheese negated, you're still likely to get CT 80% of the time anyway

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Nice try but you can have it both ways. Either cheesing works or it doesn't. If people were nearly guaranteed to get CT, they wouldn't bother cheesing. They cheese because it has an impact, and removing that impact is a good thing. I like to see more than CT raids. You're also contradicting yourself. Either there are some many cheesers that them leaving will cripple a 24 man party in which case cheesing has such a huge impact on the prevalence of CT raids that it alone creates an imbalance in the roulette, or there are only a few cheesers who don't have a big impact on queues and also wouldn't be missed if they leave an instance they don't like. Which is it?

Maybe "alliance roulette" is too much right now.
Maybe it should be spread like dungeon ?
"alliance 50/60 - 70/80/90"

At least less big surprise and people can avoid doing the first if tired of CT.
Since CT will always fill (since mandatory, relic, lowest raid ect...)...

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Maybe "alliance roulette" is too much right now.
Maybe it should be spread like dungeon ?
"alliance 50/60 - 70/80/90"

At least less big surprise and people can avoid doing the first if tired of CT.
Since CT will always fill (since mandatory, relic, lowest raid ect...)...

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The problem is that this may stop people from progressing through the story, since they need to do CT.

Separate it out and you don't get enough people queuing for CT? That is a storyline bottleneck.

The rewards would have to be tremendous to encourage people to encourage people to queue in the CT list, or you end up with a ton of aggravated players.

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

The problem is that this may stop people from progressing through the story, since they need to do CT.

Separate it out and you don't get enough people queuing for CT? That is a storyline bottleneck.

The rewards would have to be tremendous to encourage people to encourage people to queue in the CT list, or you end up with a ton of aggravated players.

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Which is where MSQ roulette fits in, people only do it for the huge exp gain so if you add in CT then it shouldnt be a problem at all since theres always people leveling jobs or farming tomestones.

I would like that theyd increased the exp gain from it if they ever do that but Im thinking very simply here

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Still lacking any objection to the idea

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I guess if you still don't have any counter argument, then my idea is pretty sound.

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Originally Posted by Ayche

You don't get to pick and choose what you want to play AND get the reward

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Only in the current system. You could pick and choose and get your reward if they changed the system. The roulette system does not have to be as restrictive as it is now to work. We don't owe the status quo anything, it's not special, and it certainly shouldn't be immune to change for the better.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I will agree to at least have CT be on MSQ roulette solely based on the fact that its required for msq.

But I dont think thisll ultimately solve the issue as people will still complain, heck even with what we have now I always see people complain in chat when we get one of the Ivalice raids or Dun Scaith when I get queued into them. Whos to say if they do arrange CT out of alliance roulette, that those older raids will also start to lose appeal and be in the same position as CT was?

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CT is so different from the other alliance raids that this is unlikely. The jump in difficulty and time required from 50-60 is by far the biggest in the entire alliance series. Maybe this will change in the future, but FF14 is an evolving game anyway. If in the future the 60 alliances become a problem, we can come up with a solution to fix that.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

You really, really enjoy saying the same things over and over again, don't you?

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I say things relevant to the discussion. Show me where I'm wrong and then you'll hear something different.

I guess I should also add to this, so I'm not misinterpreted, that I realize I can't predict the future. I don't think my ideas are immune to holes or unintentional outcomes, but I do try to consider that when making suggestions. I also try to consider people on the other side. What I'm proposing should be fairly reasonable. Adding it to FF14 may require some changes for a whole bunch of reasons, but ultimately it shouldn't be too different from the original suggestion. With that said, finding and showing me errors I've made is only helpful, but they have to be genuine errors, not just things people don't like for no reason.

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So tell me how your solution of giving people choices in regards to roulettes is going to help roulettes fulfil their purpose of filling in empty queues? Your idea of removing the boredom from roulettes would do more harm than good.

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Like I said before, more enticing roulettes can increase participation. I don't participate in the alliance raid roulette currently because I can get more entertainment out of paying bills than running CT. I have multiple characters with multiple classes that I level, so by making alliance raid completely intolerable, the playerbase available to help fill queues is decreased.

If I could exclude all the level 50 raids, I think alliance might be worth trying again. And we know this isn't likely to negatively impact CT queues because so many things are lopsided in their favor.

Let's also not forget that the separation of roulettes, which is divided in an arbitrary manner, is essentially the same idea. If you only queue for leveling roulette exclusively, you're not filling normal raid queues. Do you really think adding a little more choice is going to cause the system to collapse? That's completely unrealistic.

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You act like it's some sort of amazing solution, when in reality, you most likely just want to be able to do the quickest roulette possible and log out. You don't want to help others or contribute to the community. You want to help yourself to rewards you haven't earned.

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A lot of effort for nothing? I don't see the point. If I wanted the quickest roulette possible, I could just use the ilvl system. So why would I waste my time here trying to promote a system that would only be helpful in avoiding the easy stuff, at least when it comes to alliance raids?

Literally what changes between CT getting its own roulette and me refusing to wear anything higher than Ironworks when queueing?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You have 3 strikes per day for doing it and most people dont mind taking one regardless.

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Doesn't it say somewhere not to leave just because you don't like what you get? Even if it doesn't, leaving puts the party at a disadvantage. I guess in CT that disadvantage wouldn't even register because of how trivial the difficulty is, but technically it's still there.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

False. Ilvl cheesers will do it again to get only Void Ark and then everyone is stuck there every day. The best thing to do is to discourage cheesing altogether by making it less rewarding than not cheesing.

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Well if that becomes a problem, we could further divide the alliance raids, or just give people a roulette blacklist option to balance things out. There are multiple solutions to the problem.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Which is where MSQ roulette fits in, people only do it for the huge exp gain so if you add in CT then it shouldnt be a problem at all since theres always people leveling jobs or farming tomestones.

I would like that theyd increased the exp gain from it if they ever do that but Im thinking very simply here

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But how would you allocate people in a MSQ roulette?

Because you now have two options with varying numbers of people:

1. A set of 3 dungeons that require 4 people
2. A set of 3 dungeons that require 24 people

When people queue, do you send them into the 24 group or the 4 group?

A system would need to be designed where people currently going through the story get priority on the queue. But, this could always leave people waiting about. If you have 3 story players (for instance) queuing for each individual raid, and then 3 story players come along that want to queue for the dungeons, you have 81 spots that need to be filled (this is assuming that there are no issues with party composition) for everybody to get into a position where they can continue the story. This could result in some rather hefty queues for some players.

Getting into a 4 man dungeon now as a DPS is lengthy, but not too bad. Now, imagine if you were competing against 24-mans too.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Doesn't it say somewhere not to leave just because you don't like what you get? Even if it doesn't, leaving puts the party at a disadvantage. I guess in CT that disadvantage wouldn't even register because of how trivial the difficulty is, but technically it's still there.

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Hey, Im not trying to advocate this behavior. I for one think its pretty scummy if you make the decision to run an rng roulette but get a hissy fit that its boring old CT again and then leave. But the option is there for people, just expect those consequences if you reeeeally hate CT that much to risk waisting even more of your time for the penalty.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

-snip-

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If you want CT to have it's own separate roulette then just say so. That's what most people here want. Most people think that CT either needs its own roulette or it needs to be merged with MSQ roulette.

That's not the same as you suggesting that people pick and choose what they want in the roulette though.

Okay but something should be done about the people lowering their item level to proc it though. Sprouts and people that haven't unlocked other raids I'm honestly fine with, because they're not exploiting any inherent loophole.
And the raid's simplicity really only contributes to it, because these people are hinging on CT being so simple and quick versus the rest. Plus, there's just a weird disparity between how long it takes to clear CT versus Dun Scaith or Rabanastre. Mechanics exist and bosses are more durable. Whether ilv contributes to it or not, I don't know, the point still stands: CT is way too quick and way too easy as it stands, and that incentivizes people doing it.

However, Atelier is right. It's not that often an occurrence (sometimes you really do just get the one sprout. What are you gonna do about it, tell them they're wrong for doing the MSQ? :T). But if you're looking to get the rewards from the Roulette itself, getting CT won't really put a dent on that.

Though at that point I'd be hard pressed to call it a roulette. Let me put it this way. If I had a roulette, and then painted half the red slots as black and told you to play the game as-is with no additional modifications to accomodate the clear change in , is it still Roulette? Because the issue isn't whether CT raids are simple (even if it contributes to the problem), nor whether CT is mandatory or the earliest accessible Alliance Raid; those will obviously skew the probabilities. The issue is that there are people forcifully making it happen via an exploit of the system. The exploit needs to be addressed. Whether CT is fine or not is irrelevant, the exploit needs to be done away with.

And we have options. Are they the best ones? No, but they help. I personally prefer tweaking the item level synch to discourage people from trying to cheese the roulette. It, in turn, might also tackle what people view as a boring instance. I don't think migrating it to MSQ Roulette makes sense from a certain standpoint. Because MSQ Roulette are 4 man duties with a lot of cutscenes, and then suddenly 3 24-man duties whose length hinges on the gameplay... but hey :| that's an option too I guess?

So... yeah. CT being too easy and all that? That's a problem on its own, can be addressed in other ways. Is CT going to pop very often because the probability is skewed? Sure, but it's still Alliance Roulette, deal with it, it's an instance like all the others for the most part. But people forcing it is what I personally take issue with, and it mostly happens because it's an easy content to go through.

Why is this subject so popular these days? influencer did a video or something?

I really would like SE to address this directly, even if they end up taking no action on it. I remember poking and prodding this system back in Shb and reaching uneven conclusions.

As far as CT is concerned, I agree that it needs to be changed, but seeing SE's rationale lately I don't think a simple ilvl adjustment will be enough. I think there is a possibility of a CT redesign after they finish with Duty Support.

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Originally Posted by Cach

As far as CT is concerned, I agree that it needs to be changed, but seeing SE's rationale lately I don't think a simple ilvl adjustment will be enough. I think there is a possibility of a CT redesign after they finish with Duty Support.

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That could work too tbh. Just redo CT, keep it simple but don't make it a snoozefest. And reassess a way to prevent people from stipping naked and cheese it, since then chances are there isn't much you can cheese through.

Costly? Maybe.
But that's what SE's been doing the past months, so who knows.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

That could work too tbh. Just redo CT, keep it simple but don't make it a snoozefest. And reassess a way to prevent people from stipping naked and cheese it, since then chances are there isn't much you can cheese through.

Costly? Maybe.
But that's what SE's been doing the past months, so who knows.

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I don't think you can avoid making it a snoozefest. They could redo the whole place and people would just get tired of it all over again. Even if the cheese were to go away, it would still come up a lot of times.

I feel like I'm weird when it comes to this. I'm excited when I get Ivalice/Nier/Agalia (spelled wrong?).
Unlike others I don't need higher rewards to want to do those. They're fun and that's the most important part for me. Especially consodering...this IS a game.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I don't think you can avoid making it a snoozefest. They could redo the whole place and people would just get tired of it all over again. Even if the cheese were to go away, it would still come up a lot of times.

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Maybe not. And that's true, for example, I'm super tired of Azdaal's Legacy, as well as Sil'dih Subterrane. Because they get repetitive and predictable easily. But I find that fair and an obvious outcome of videogames in general. I know what I'm getting into. If you give me my favourite dish for breakfast, lunch and dinner, obviously at some point it stops feeling special. Same with any content. But at least here I know that that's what I'm signing up for.

But I already said as much.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

So... yeah. CT being too easy and all that? That's a problem on its own, can be addressed in other ways. Is CT going to pop very often because the probability is skewed? Sure, but it's still Alliance Roulette, deal with it, it's an instance like all the others for the most part.

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Of course, that's just me. My real gripe is just people doing what's such an obvious exploit to force the system. I approached it as "if it's so easy to the point where you AFK, and it takes less time to complete than other instances, then naturally people will prefer it". Past that, if people want to complain that a low-level instance is boring, repetitive and obvious, then that's up to them.

I speak for myself: There is a problem, and much like problems of the same kind, it should be looked into. I think the issue stems from one characteristic of the content itself. Others are free to disagee. Anything beyond that is preference.

Duty Roulette pulls you in to duties that people are queued for
People getting naked to force themselves into LotA are not forcing you into LotA with you
Duty Roulette does not conjure up an instance for the first 24 people to queue together, it compares your gear to what duties are currently being run and puts you in to the Highest Level Duty that has been waiting the longest that you are eligible for
Please stop spreading the disinfo that the naked Balmungers are forcing you to play boring raids, you are just queuing at dead hours when people aren't running the cool content that people actually want to play. If you are using alliance raid roulette to level and are not at max level, you literally do not get to complain because it prioritizes giving difficult content to higher level players. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...012013_750.png
I have queued for Alliance Roulette 3 days in a row now across 3 characters and every time its been NEIR or Ivalice. I swear nobody who plays this game understands how the Duty Roulette works.
The naked people are forcing themselves into low level content but they are not dragging in there you with them.

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Originally Posted by BelegErkhten

The naked people are forcing themselves into low level content but they are not dragging in there you with them.

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Firm believer that is what happens. You can be sure when they get the duty that they are in one with level 50 players. I always check my party and 9/10 there is a 50 and that is only one alliance.

The last 3 times I've done alliance roulette (within the last week), I got one Lab and two WoD. The first two, I saw a 67 in my party, so it was already slim pickings. In the most recent, it was someone's first time.

Folks can talk about the cheese all they want, but we're so far into this discussion on two threads and there's still no real solution that doesn't have the potential to really change things for the better for all. If cheese was the one and only factor in roulette selection, this would be a different conversation and we'd actually be in agreement on a change being necessary.

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Originally Posted by BelegErkhten

Duty Roulette pulls you in to duties that people are queued for
People getting naked to force themselves into LotA are not forcing you into LotA with you
Duty Roulette does not conjure up an instance for the first 24 people to queue together, it compares your gear to what duties are currently being run and puts you in to the Highest Level Duty that has been waiting the longest that you are eligible for

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And just like that you shot down any chance you had at being reasonable.
- If the system compares your gear as to what is being currently run, it will not force your low ilv to a high-end duty like NieR. You said so yourself.
- Not everyone here is on the Crystal Datacenter, nor on NA. I'm on Zodiark: EU Datacenter.
- "I have queued for Alliance Roulette 3 days in a row now across 3 characters and every time its been NEIR or Ivalice. I swear nobody who plays this game understands how the Duty Roulette works." Great that that's been your experience, but I queued for it last week and I happened to have a female character totally naked there, so... Your point? "Because it does not happen to me, it cannot happen to you"?
- I'm running content during the day until midnight on my end. Queues for any sort of content stagnate at around midnight (PvP becomes absolutely dead by then). So no. I play in the afternoon and past noon.
- "The naked people are forcing themselves into low level content but they are not dragging in there you with them." The roulette pairs anyone up with anything. They're forcing everyone, themselves included. Hence why even if no one was doing the naked thing, you can still have people who aren't new to the instance. In case you didn't know, there is such a message when someone hasn't cleared it. Meaning that you can all land into low level stuff because of the item level comparison.

In a roulette, this is normal, because even if you all have a high item level, you can still land on CT. But if someone's item level is lower than, say, Rabanastre, you cannot get Rabanastre and duties beyond it. This goes for everything, including Levelling Roulette. Why do you think so many people find it odd that they're in their high 80's and can end up getting Sastasha as a duty in Level Roulette?

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

The last 3 times I've done alliance roulette (within the last week), I got one Lab and two WoD. The first two, I saw a 67 in my party, so it was already slim pickings. In the most recent, it was someone's first time.

Folks can talk about the cheese all they want, but we're so far into this discussion on two threads and there's still no real solution that doesn't have the potential to really change things for the better for all. If cheese was the one and only factor in roulette selection, this would be a different conversation and we'd actually be in agreement on a change being necessary.

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So because we can't seem to find one as players who don't know what's behind the code to the extent the devs do, there's no point in changing?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Firm believer that is what happens. You can be sure when they get the duty that they are in one with level 50 players. I always check my party and 9/10 there is a 50 and that is only one alliance.

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Meaning the other two alliances could have landed literally anywhere else?

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Originally Posted by BelegErkhten

I am being perfectly reasonable and the solution is for you to get a full party and use the Limited roulette function instead of being antisocial. If your community sucks, build a better community, NOTHING that I posted was factually incorrect, you just want to be miserable and complain. If Dynamis were real you'd be turning into a Blasphemy right now.

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??
"Instead of being antisocial"? :| Uhh... explain that to me, please? Where are you getting this from? Because I can't make the community bend to my will? xD

Also... "nothing"? Sweetie... where's the Zodiark Datacenter located? :) Where is Balmung located?

Riiiight. So. Troll? Troll.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Firm believer that is what happens. You can be sure when they get the duty that they are in one with level 50 players. I always check my party and 9/10 there is a 50 and that is only one alliance.

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Yes, this exactly what happens. When you queue for Duty Roulette you are doing that thing in Shadowbringers where he goes "Warriors from beyond the rift heed my call" and you are heeding said call. XIV has a really REALLY cool way of integrating its mechanics with its own lore.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh2hZRFRHPw
^Spoiler in question^

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

And just like that you shot down any chance you had at being reasonable.
- If the system compares your gear as to what is being currently run, it will not force your low ilv to a high-end duty like NieR. You said so yourself.
- Not everyone here is on the Crystal Datacenter, nor on NA. I'm on Zodiark: EU Datacenter.
- "I have queued for Alliance Roulette 3 days in a row now across 3 characters and every time its been NEIR or Ivalice. I swear nobody who plays this game understands how the Duty Roulette works." Great that that's been your experience, but I queued for it last week and I happened to have a female character totally naked there, so... Your point? "Because it does not happen to me, it cannot happen to you"?
- I'm running content during the day until midnight on my end. Queues for any sort of content stagnate at around midnight (PvP becomes absolutely dead by then). So no. I play in the afternoon and past noon.
- "The naked people are forcing themselves into low level content but they are not dragging in there you with them." The roulette pairs anyone up with anything. They're forcing everyone, themselves included. Hence why even if no one was doing the naked thing, you can still have people who aren't new to the instance. In case you didn't know, there is such a message when someone hasn't cleared it. Meaning that you can all land into low level stuff because of the item level comparison.

In a roulette, this is normal, because even if you all have a high item level, you can still land on CT. But if someone's item level is lower than, say, Rabanastre, you cannot get Rabanastre and duties beyond it. This goes for everything, including Levelling Roulette. Why do you think so many people find it odd that they're in their high 80's and can end up getting Sastasha as a duty in Level Roulette?

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I am being perfectly reasonable and the solution is for you to get a full party and use the Limited roulette function instead of being antisocial. If your community sucks, build a better community, NOTHING that I posted was factually incorrect, you just want to be miserable and complain. If Dynamis were real you'd be turning into a Blasphemy right now.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

where's the Zodiark Datacenter located? Where is Balmung located?

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What part of that is relevant? It doesn't matter where you are the system functions the exact same way. The mechanics of how Duty Finder matches people does not change when you move between Data Centers. Forgive me for not being intimately (pun not intended) familiar with what world the EU coomers hang out on.


I should also add that non-level 50 people will also queue for LotA via quests like Gifts of the Archmagus
You are fabricating a boogieman in your head and pinning everything wrong on said non-existent boogieman.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

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One person doing ilvl cheese is not necessarily creating a CT run that wouldnt have happened otherwise. You can have two people forcing CT, one by queueing for it directly and one by doing ilvl cheese but that doesnt mean you will have two CT runs. You can just aswell have just one CT run with both of those people in it.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Meaning the other two alliances could have landed literally anywhere else?

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What are you trying to say? The other two alliances need to be filled aswell, it's an alliance raid.

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Originally Posted by BelegErkhten

I am being perfectly reasonable and the solution is for you to get a full party and use the Limited roulette function instead of being antisocial. If your community sucks, build a better community, NOTHING that I posted was factually incorrect, you just want to be miserable and complain. If Dynamis were real you'd be turning into a Blasphemy right now.

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Fyi Limited roulette only works for Duty Roulette: Leveling Dungeon. There’s a possibility they might extend this to other roulette but personally I highly doubt that.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

So because we can't seem to find one as players who don't know what's behind the code to the extent the devs do, there's no point in changing?

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Correct!

And if you want them to work on fresh content so you're less bored, please look forward to tomorrow's Live Letter where they'll announce such a thing. :D

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Hey, Im not trying to advocate this behavior. I for one think its pretty scummy if you make the decision to run an rng roulette but get a hissy fit that its boring old CT again and then leave. But the option is there for people, just expect those consequences if you reeeeally hate CT that much to risk waisting even more of your time for the penalty.

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That makes it clear. I'd much rather take the penalty than run CT if I'm honest, but I wouldn't because I agree it's not really considerate of the other players.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

If you want CT to have it's own separate roulette then just say so. That's what most people here want. Most people think that CT either needs its own roulette or it needs to be merged with MSQ roulette.

That's not the same as you suggesting that people pick and choose what they want in the roulette though.

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If "choice" was giving the wrong impression, then maybe "more granular roulettes" would be a better phrase. Anyway, yeah separating CT from the other raids was my primary idea behind more choice. Alliance seems like the perfect candidate for this since CT will never be at risk of low participation and it's very clear that a significant amount of players want to be able to queue for anything but CT. Divide the roulette and everyone wins, so there's really no reason not to do it, at least from a player standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

That could work too tbh. Just redo CT, keep it simple but don't make it a snoozefest. And reassess a way to prevent people from stipping naked and cheese it, since then chances are there isn't much you can cheese through.

Costly? Maybe.
But that's what SE's been doing the past months, so who knows.

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Replacing CT completely is another idea, and the duty is so problematic that I don't think the fact that it would cost SE something to fix it should be considered a problem, unless that cost is enormous. However, like I said in another post, level 50 is still really simple and that will impact the overall experience. So many jobs are just a combo or the same button over and over at that point that even with mechanics, I feel like the content would be kind of meh. It could still be better than what we have now though.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I feel like I'm weird when it comes to this. I'm excited when I get Ivalice/Nier/Agalia (spelled wrong?).
Unlike others I don't need higher rewards to want to do those. They're fun and that's the most important part for me. Especially consodering...this IS a game.

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I feel the same way. I can't understand the mindset of running through content for rewards ASAP. The reward in a game should be a feeling of enjoyment. That's a much stronger incentive than XP every time in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Maybe not. And that's true, for example, I'm super tired of Azdaal's Legacy, as well as Sil'dih Subterrane. Because they get repetitive and predictable easily. But I find that fair and an obvious outcome of videogames in general. I know what I'm getting into. If you give me my favourite dish for breakfast, lunch and dinner, obviously at some point it stops feeling special. Same with any content. But at least here I know that that's what I'm signing up for.

But I already said as much.

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Expert roulette suffers from neglect. We used to have more dungeons per patch, and you could absolutely tell. I think it was a mistake to cut down on dungeon content. Of course SE had reasons for this, but I don't think they made the right choice in the end.

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Of course, that's just me. My real gripe is just people doing what's such an obvious exploit to force the system. I approached it as "if it's so easy to the point where you AFK, and it takes less time to complete than other instances, then naturally people will prefer it". Past that, if people want to complain that a low-level instance is boring, repetitive and obvious, then that's up to them.

I speak for myself: There is a problem, and much like problems of the same kind, it should be looked into. I think the issue stems from one characteristic of the content itself. Others are free to disagee. Anything beyond that is preference.

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While the exploiting is a problem, I don't think sticking to the system despite all of its flaws is the best way to fix it. You did say that you are speaking for yourself, so I won't make a text wall on this topic, but I take the mass exploiting as a sign that the system isn't designed well. There isn't anything wrong with changing things to better please the playerbase.