6.28 Patch Notes

PVP: I'm more wowed they thought AST was in a bad place, I love AST in pvp and now it's just broken XD.
PVE: Where they did adjustments concerns me with future balance as harder jobs should be looked at in terms of balance not easier ones, easier ones should be looked at to be diversified (and maybe moved away from homogenizing as should all jobs) but still fall into some margin. And for the ones that say difficulty is subjective, I mean I get it...but can we all agree that a group analysis, events, and skill timers can make something "difficult" and by this standard of what makes it difficult means that it IS difficult, not so much your own personal play. Objective difficulty is not the same as subjective difficulty.

Maybe instead of balancing the jobs, they should start giving boss fights invulnerability to certain job skills in a job setting. Programmatically if they had a way to return an index number based on the position of a skill they could then disallow that skill by that index (this would remove the need to do this for every single job, declaring them one by one), they could even spin some random element where the skill(s) it shuts off is random. So this would allow a certain job type to get more damage in than another i.e boss has ignore-some-but-range skill thus allows range full damage up-time while the other jobs have certain/random indexed skills shut off for usage.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

They're really pushing for WHM to be completely useless in PVP, aren't they?

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Tell me you don't PvP without telling me you don't PvP.

Their limit break has insane range, high damage, a stun attached to it, and in the group with the fastest charge rate.

Miracle of Nature is still one of the best CC's there is, this just made the range a bit lower.

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Originally Posted by Katish

PVP: I'm more wowed they thought AST was in a bad place, I love AST in pvp and now it's just broken XD.
PVE: Where they did adjustments concerns me with future balance as harder jobs should be looked at in terms of balance not easier ones, easier ones should be looked at to be diversified (and maybe moved away from homogenizing as should all jobs) but still fall into some margin. And for the ones that say difficulty is subjective, I mean I get it...but can we all agree that a group analysis, events, and skill timers can make something "difficult" and by this standard of what makes it difficult means that it IS difficult, not so much your own personal play. Objective difficulty is not the same as subjective difficulty.

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I honestly can't fathom this change to PvP regarding positioning and the usage of abilities. Hiding behind walls/ pillars to avoid being hit has been a tactic for a LONG time and this just turns it on it's head. Having to have Line of Sight to hit people and buff them requires risk and skill, something that is the hallmark of PvP

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Tell me you don't PvP without telling me you don't PvP.

Their limit break has insane range, high damage, a stun attached to it, and in the group with the fastest charge rate.

Miracle of Nature is still one of the best CC's there is, this just made the range a bit lower.

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Oh look, another condescending comment on the FFXIV forum. Honestly, I have zero interest in even engaging with you beyond this response. Have a nice day.

Wait, did this series end? I'm still a couple ranks away from the dragon mount...

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

Wait, did this series end? I'm still a couple ranks away from the dragon mount...

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The CC season ended. You can still get the dragon.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

The CC season ended. You can still get the dragon.

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Thanks. I couldn't remember if a series went across two seasons or not.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Casters are always going to be weird to balance, SMN mobility, both "utilities" smn/rdm give vs damage output on BLM is always going to be a tough balancing act, as you dont want BLM to do so much damage that it makes smn/rdm useless, but you also don't want SMN/RDM utility so strong it invalidates a BLM.

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I agree, but i also think that SMN has too much mobility at the moment. I do kind of understand why it has so much mobility, but ultimately it needs to be toned down along with rotational rigidity. But then, i kinda think that SMN's current rotation, while is viable and usable, does need some adjustment to weave in more complexity. It doesnt kill the job, but it would improve the experience.

Bottom line is Smn is a caster but fails to feel like a caster or have the general impact of one. Even if (IMO) it is the flashyiest of the casters. The buffs given today are welcomed, but do not fundamentally address any of the classes core issues... ignoring the current community split of opinion of what SMN should or should not be design visionwise.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I honestly can't fathom this change to PvP regarding positioning and the usage of abilities. Hiding behind walls/ pillars to avoid being hit has been a tactic for a LONG time and this just turns it on it's head. Having to have Line of Sight to hit people and buff them requires risk and skill, something that is the hallmark of PvP

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xiv devs and removing skill expression, name a more iconic duo

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Originally Posted by FireMage

This is what we in the know refer to as a non point. It doesn't matter if anyone asked for it or not, what matters is what IS. Ease of play MUST affect Job balance, otherwise you are penalizing skill

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You're still going on with this dumb take? How sad.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Oh look, another condescending comment on the FFXIV forum. Honestly, I have zero interest in even engaging with you beyond this response. Have a nice day.

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They're right though, WHM is pretty powerful in PvP. Miracle of Nature has no counter, and the LB is up so often that it feels like it's on a 20s cooldown.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They're right though, WHM is pretty powerful in PvP. Miracle of Nature has no counter, and the LB is up so often that it feels like it's on a 20s cooldown.

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WHM is currently the strongest "healer" because of its lazer beam stun, and their LB definitely should have a slighter nerf on that one.

one thing I don't get is the fact they Consider Purify/Cleanse a bug.
<if that was the case, all LBs should be unavoidable and unbreakable>

most of the potency changes for pvp I'm fine with.<don't get why they removed apocatastasis>

some good buff to ranged/caster and other jobs that fell through overall but barely 1%~2% buff, it's not ideal (i was expecting something like 5% buff overall) but I hope 6.3 they bring a more meaty buff to not-melees.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

I agree, but i also think that SMN has too much mobility at the moment. I do kind of understand why it has so much mobility, but ultimately it needs to be toned down along with rotational rigidity. But then, i kinda think that SMN's current rotation, while is viable and usable, does need some adjustment to weave in more complexity. It doesnt kill the job, but it would improve the experience.

Bottom line is Smn is a caster but fails to feel like a caster or have the general impact of one. Even if (IMO) it is the flashyiest of the casters. The buffs given today are welcomed, but do not fundamentally address any of the classes core issues... ignoring the current community split of opinion of what SMN should or should not be design visionwise.

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Didn't bahamut for smn used to have cast times? correct me if I'm wrong here I didn't really play a lot of old summoner or new summoner. Maybe that would allow it to feel different from phoenix and give SMN more casting time, I don't know if it would be the perfect solution though.

I can agree with less mobility on smn just to a point where it's still the most mobile caster I like the idea of giving jobs certain "niches" that make them stand out from others, but at the same time I think niches need to be balanced in a way that doesn't make it too imbalanced

Here's what generally I think we want to avoid when job balancing.
1. Making jobs too similar, fitting practically no purpose other then being a rotational reskin, this is something how I view current melees, I'm generally not a fan of how melees currently function, somewhat with tanks too I believe tanks should be given more identity and more support different abilities, while I think it's hard to balance I rather have a unbalanced game with unique roles then one where the roles function the same.

2. Removing skill expression from certain jobs but also allowing ease of access on other jobs, if a job is "easy to use" that's fine, but we also need more jobs that fill a harder playstyle, maybe granted they give a small reward but more hardcore jobs shouldn't be meta. Also I actually like how Samurai is rewarded for using their defensives "correctly" even if its a small reward it's something that at least makes the job that's generally pretty easy to pick up, give slightly more depth.

3. Big Damage ranges, we should make sure that a job in it's category (tank/healer/dps), stays close to there, ones that offer stronger utility should generally be slightly lower but it shouldn't be enough where bringing a job with more utility makes enrages harsh, I don't think jobs should have utility for free (personally) unless every job had a sort of utility. I personally think even things such as "ranged tax" is fine but its way too much right now, the fact that casters like BLM/RDM are harder to move around then melees also makes me question why casters have a ranged tax.

I play SMN the most as of Endwalker (had played it up until Shadowbringers, since I very much had zero interest in having carpal tunnel syndrome + GNB was cool), and I can say that I don't like the current mobility it has. SMN was always somewhat mobile, and that was fine. The issue is that right now it's virtually no different than a ranged physical DPS.

I also dislike how inconsistent it is. You go from phases with normal GCD timers, to a phase where you channel your inner Machinist to yet another phase where all your mobility dies and you're stuck with the world's most inconvenient gap closer.

I've always liked that SMN had a bit of challenge to play and had some mobility windows. but not all the time. And I preferred it when my lack of mobility was still something I could handle (like with slidecasting) than being forced to use a gap closer that comes up at the worst possible times. I don't know if this has any impact in balance. But if it does, then it's actively harming it from what I can see. I get streamlining it and making it a pick-up-and-play job. But so too was Red Mage for quite a long while, yet it still wasn't this bad.

I'd prefer to have Bahamut phase be the "less mobile but more powerful"-phase & Phoenix phase to be the "more flexible but less powerful"-phase now that both Demi-Summons attacks independently. As of now they can literally strip off one of them & I wouldn't even notice the change. In addition to that, I'd like to have my 1-2 rotation from ShB's Phoenix back, too. I liked the AoE button but they are stowed entirely in single target encounters.

But I'm just somebody who enjoys playing SMN casually :p

I got a new email today, that Patch 6.25 is now live!

xD



Cheers

I don't like that they nerfed Redmage in pvp again. :c

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Originally Posted by Mat13295

At this point they should just make WHM a melee class in PVP, goddamn.

Miracle of nature was a mistake. The sooner SE's PVP team realises this and either deletes or reworks it, the better.

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Still wondering if they even realize it's not cleansable and that's the only issue with miracle....

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Reaper being the sole exception. It's buffs are actually fairly substantial, and may allow it to crack into the Melee meta again.

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What does this even mean. Reaper is one of the most popular if not the most popular melee job, how is it not already "Meta" ?

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Originally Posted by Meowdyj

What does this even mean. Reaper is one of the most popular if not the most popular melee job, how is it not already "Meta" ?

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Popularity has nothing to do with meta. Meta is the quality, popularity is quantity.

Of course often the meta is popular as well, but not always.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Popularity has nothing to do with meta. Meta is the quality, popularity is quantity.

Of course often the meta is popular as well, but not always.

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Yep and the pvp issue of buffing whm because its extremely popular, hence it muddies the waters with lower people using it and making it lose more.

More people playing means more losses means lower winrate.
And they buffed because of winrate at first, without showing how many people play whm.

They definitely use the wrong reasons to buff classes, ESPECIALLY in pvp
The people that play reaper being better than some other people, hence it not having the worst winrate.... doesn't mean reaper is op or anything
People just like how it plays i guess

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Oh look, another condescending comment on the FFXIV forum. Honestly, I have zero interest in even engaging with you beyond this response. Have a nice day.

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Condescending or not you ARE indeed dead wrong. Whm/PVP/Useless doesn't even sound right to anyone who actually pops.
I've seen full games off straight up whm's in FL and Whm has been the most common pick I've seen in CC.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

You really should learn to properly read instead of trying to insult the intelligence of your betters

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Also Firemage chill out dude. This ain't gamefaqs.

Yeah, I don't have any experience with whm.(but have seen people say that if you have a whm, or go whm, you'll win, despite it being false..,)

just like with the BLM changes, we are usually 1st or 2nd target depending on comp. so Apocatastasis removal basically acts like guaranteed death.(specially when LB-ing.., whilst when previously. it's either luck, bad enemy team, or they don't have their hard hitting tools when we actually survive. now it's guaranteed.)
Last night I survived many opposing teams.(but I know for sure they've popped all their strong things on the rest of the party.)

Cleanse/Purify really shouldn't be "fixed" against some LBs.(and even those that should or can/can't be cleansed don't do much as you'll get hit anyways. looks at hysteria)

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I got a new email today, that Patch 6.25 is now live!

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LOL me too! With how slow it was to arrive, I think they used Deutsche Bundespost to send it.

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Originally Posted by Meowdyj

What does this even mean. Reaper is one of the most popular if not the most popular melee job, how is it not already "Meta" ?

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It's too weak in comparison to SAM/MNK. It's more a middle of the pack with the Melee.

Honestly the buffs can seem good but you still have the drifting burst window that screws it over and it's even more susceptible to rng crit where now you want both PH and Communio to crit for max damage.

So they are pushing up the numbers without addressing any of it's actual problems.

They nerfed it's utility, then slight buffs to the filler combo you only use 20% of the time and they buffed your 2 minute big GCDs. PH is a sizable increase but Communio potency increase is underwhelming.

I don't know what the hell the buff on Lemure Slice is even for. It's still only worth half a Bloodstalk. 200/220 potency vs. 340/400 potency? Give me a break.

They hope to strike a balance between burst and nonburst damage but I have a feeling they just made it worse.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Here's the thing, I know what I'm talking about, you don't. Educate yourself if you wish to contend with your betters

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Originally Posted by FireMage

You really should learn to properly read instead of trying to insult the intelligence of your betters

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My dude, you need another insult.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

My dude, you need another insult.

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He kinda reminds me of the dude in the beginning archer quest.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

My dude, you need another insult.

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Nah, he should learn from his own words, because he certainly isn't anyone's better by a mile.

they made old gear dyeable. didnt know this was a thing, but i certainly like it. hope there will be more to come

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Nah, he should learn from his own words, because he certainly isn't anyone's better by a mile.

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Yall don't know the FM Gamefaqs lore xD
If this is the same dude ofc

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

WHM's Miracle of Nature gets nerfed again in pvp.


How about make Miracle of Nature an 5m range AoE next? High risk, high gain as a gap-closer disabler.


Also more dyeable low-level sets are cool. Hope they will do Shisui set next.

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They're nerfing it the wrong way.
Return the original range, but make it 1, purifyable, or 2, break on damage.
It's just a extra stun with no counterplay to guarantee kills which is bad gameplay

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Yall don't know the FM Gamefaqs lore xD
If this is the same dude ofc

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It is the same dude.

Unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

This guy has literally been poisoning the dps forums because he's a 1 trick rdm player and he's prolly mad smn got a similar buff to rdm.

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You need new material troll

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The fact that you are calling him by usernames from another website means you know how he behaves on that website.

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You mean putting trolls in their place? It's a good thing. You should be thankful

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Originally Posted by Ransu

You're still going on with this dumb take? How sad.

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You mean the correct take

If this is the guy...wow. The people in the comments have...quite the opinion.

https://gfaqsff.fandom.com/wiki/Firemage7777

Firemage showing up in a Titanmen-less forum is a massive wasted opportunity.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Firemage showing up in a Titanmen-less forum is a massive wasted opportunity.

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I like to think Titan has reformed himself and secretly worked on his main to become an awesome voice of reason here!

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Originally Posted by Meowdyj

What does this even mean. Reaper is one of the most popular if not the most popular melee job, how is it not already "Meta" ?

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If we're talking P8S logged clears, RPR was the 4th most unpopular DPS, only beaten out by MCH, BRD and BLM.
Sure RPR is popular in casual content, but it's not meta. As soon as good damage is actually required, it disappears from stats.
Same happened with DSR and it will probably be an unpopular pick in the next Ultimate too unless they fix its massive issues with downtime mechanics.

As long as Reaper relies on it's burst and the buildup required it will always be undesirable in high-end content I think.

The bulk of Reaper damage is in Enshroud windows. Outside of that Gibbet/Gallows/Bloodstalk.

With the changes I assume the plan is for Reaper to be stuck in drifting dbl Enshroud windows with a 1k pot PH and 2 1.1k pot Communios.

When I glance at it, it just doesn't seem like a lot of fun for casual players or competitive players IMO.

I think overall these are just band-aids and doesn't really help them all that much.