PvP is simply garbage

well 5 padges and this topic has gone to the trolls time to leave this dumpster fire.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

If you are lowering Bard CC to 2 seconds you better make it AoE like Red Mage has.

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RDM's silence is a GCD that you can't weave, BRD can do his mid burst.

No.

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Originally Posted by george357

well 5 padges and this topic has gone to the trolls time to leave this dumpster fire.

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Ironic coming from the literal troll.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

RDM's silence is a GCD that you can't weave, BRD can do his mid burst.

No.

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Bards kit is fine the way it is. It doesn't need any nerfs. The only thing that it really needs changed is its LB either through a redesign to give it more impact in a match or significantly reduce its charge time. More than half my matches finish before I even get a single LB charge or I get a LB and I have to hold it because of LoS issues or waiting for people to pop their damn LB's.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Ironic coming from the literal troll.



Bards kit is fine the way it is. It doesn't need any nerfs. The only thing that it really needs changed is its LB either through a redesign to give it more impact in a match or significantly reduce its charge time. More than half my matches finish before I even get a single LB charge or I get a LB and I have to hold it because of LoS issues or waiting for people to pop their damn LB's.

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Oh yes, in vacuum BRD's kit is fine, but I'm basing my nerf request along with a plea for a more impactful LB. Just in the current version BRD is basically carrying its kit with Silent Nocturne right now, which I don't think is healthy in the long run.

Maybe I shouldn't have omitted that.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

They don't need to skim the forums or receive any kind of feedback from players to fix majority of complaints of with PvP, they just need to play the game. I realise that it's an unreasonable request, but if they did that then they'd know how awful it feels to be chain CC'd to instant death because the resilience buff from purify didn't work because of the garbage server tick rates. The fact there is no way to proactively nullify the effects of CC is all I need to know that the PvP team doesn't actually play PvP.

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Yes and No, i expect that quality checks are done in a low latency setup which can have an impact on how things work also the testers might not be asked to try to exploit certain things in both legal and illegal ways. But yes, if the team would just join random real games on different servers they would get an better picture on how changes turn out.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Or... keep the speed of the game and how CC works and simply reintroduce the cooldown that actually lets you engage without sacrificing Purify or Guard:

Fetter Ward
Cooldown: 30s
Duration: 5-6s
Effect: Full immunity to CC akin to Guard (Polymorph included) while active, does not reduce damage or lock out actions.

This was available to melee players in Feast, but was not as relevant due to how combat and CC scarcity operated. However now is arguably a good reason to bring it back as an all-class action, without drastically redesigning the combat (other than adjusting some power in jobs, like a Monk or Ninja with CC immunity would be hell).

And certain CC abilities need some toning, like Polymorph as a regular cooldown should not ignore CC immunity and Bard' Silence should seriously not last 3s while having access to a 3s Bind and being ranged. Silence + Bind is essentially a stun and we reduced DPS stuns down to 2 seconds already.

That and we should really give each job additional buttons so we reach 16 (without Sprint) like we did before in Feast.

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Defiantly miss the optional skill

To be honest at this point I believe people just want CC ability from 2.0 back with 30s sleep, 6s-5s stun , 20s bind, 20s heavy and undead sch and 3.0-4.0 undead ast and whm holy spam stun and melee/tank forever slow chase healer/range dps.

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Originally Posted by TheElvenQueen

My first instinctive approach to improving pvp would be:

- reduce all dmg done 50%
- reduce all healing 50%
- change stun/polymorph cc into debuffs:
victims have 30% reduced movement speed/healing power

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That would just make jobs with oneshot abilities (SAM, NIN, MCH(3% chance lol)) more meta. Its not always about damage, lot of people in lower ranks in any multiplayer game tend to be too agressive and go 1v2+. Im not saying you are one of them, ofc.

They probably thought the meta would be more bunker due guard and "everyone has heal" additions - so there would be need of oneshot abilities or high damage. But guess it turned out to be burst meta cranked to 11.

I also honestly believe that the reason we have infinite sprint is because there was cheat in feast and old pvp where some people had infinite sprint. So instead, they gave it to everyone.

Personally, Im not fan of oneshot abilities. The idea of them being counter to "bunker meta" is nice on theory, but I dont like how easy it is to pull off. Yes one could argue that SAM oneshot requires setup but with the ping, snapshots and whatevers you tend to attack SAM with the Chiten up even if you didnt want to. And the amount of times you fall below 50% hp in any mode is bit absurd, making it very simple for NIN to LB kill you.

Thats why using hard CC on someone for +3s (chiten debuff lasts 3s) is crucial if you dont want SAM to LB potentially whole team.

If you want to remove hard CC chaining, remove oneshot abilities like SAM chiten+LB - imo anyway.

I'll keep it simple and stupid.
Just like how we prove our hard work, job class and understanding of the game in PvE. It should also show in apparently in PvP too. First of all it's a contest of skill not single minded button pressing.

Square enix deviated from their original calculations to a more flat based damage scaling. Meaning whoever has more APM is a better class. But things also do not fall in place with what I'm saying about apm either. It goes a lot deep than the surface level I am talking about.

With the removal of some buttons it also reduced technical play by a huge margin. Plus removing "class roles" is the biggest imbalance upon itself.

16 out of 19 jobs in PvP have access to at least one form of CC, you give players one charge of purify on 30sec CD and no diminishing returns on CC, seriously? I've seen better balance and game design from free Source mods, this is just embarrassing to be frank.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

16 out of 19 jobs in PvP have access to at least one form of CC, you give players one charge of purify on 30sec CD and no diminishing returns on CC, seriously? I've seen better balance and game design from free Source mods, this is just embarrassing to be frank.

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Let be honest here, a lot of people that is actively playing PvP are benefited by this.
If you are not new and not actively PvP last expansion, you are basically one of them
This is what actually wiped out the skill gap between verrans and weak players because weak players can just mindless spamming CC
This also caused all veterans end up playing on Ninja

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Let be honest here, a lot of people that is actively playing PvP are benefited by this.
If you are not new and not actively PvP last expansion, you are basically one of them
This is what actually wiped out the skill gap between verrans and weak players because weak players can just mindless spamming CC
This also caused all veterans end up playing on Ninja

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Well said. These people lack true skill. Most likely they can't even do PvE openers and weaving and decide to like simple button mashing tactics. Ninja is cheap and yes many use it for its simplicity of running around, using range attacks, crowd control to easy Limit Break kill because its an easy play to win grind.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

I'm pretty convinced that whoever at SE is making balancing decisions for PVP either has no clue what they're doing, or simply isn't actually putting in anything close the time and effort that would be necessary to make sure things are properly balanced. It takes them ages to acknowledge let alone fix bugs, and anytime they do make balance changes it's always massive knee jerk changes that have sweeping effects.

Frontlines is an absolute mess. Summoner spam used to be an issue, where as now they're practically useless with the damage/mitigation changes. Which of course now melee is way too tanky because of the mitigation changes, with the only way to reasonable kill anyone is to gank them and spam CC on them. Which the spam CC is another issue in of itself with how irritating it can be to get chain CCd with no way out of it, and there being absolutely no diminishing returns on CC. Paladin guardian cheese on capture points is still an issue that was finally acknowledged as a bug, but still nothing has actually been done about it months into the pvp revamp.

And of course there's the underlying fundamental issue with the game itself having a horribly slow tick rate that cause all sorts of responsiveness issues where you can use an ability only for it to not register anywhere near quickly enough to have the effect it would if the game was more responsive.

FF PVP is a mess.

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I just got flamed to hell for this same outlook lol.

Famitsu w/ yoshi - On CC, the devs plan to improve the Season ranking rewards since there was feedback that these have been underwhelming. There are also plans for an official tournament. The devs are currently fairly pleased with the job balance based on Season 2 data.

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Originally Posted by Shao99

[1]non stop bind/stuns
[2]overpowered lbs thrown out every few seconds
[3]A intern could have done a better job. how they allowed this mess to be released before even beta testing it with players is beyond me.
[4]It was a terrible idea not to keep the skills separate.

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1.) You essentially are asking for Fetter Ward to come back, on top of probably an effect for large-scale PvP that diminishes excessive CC. Both things I'd advocate for myself.

2.) Said it before, saying it now - LB generation should not be passive over time but based on performance, in every game mode. You gain LB just running from objective to objective, with LB recharge times ranging from 60s to 120s. The more potent ones in large-scale PvP happen to be 90s (NIN SMN), more utility based ones are 120s (PLD, SGE).

3.) Superfluous slander of work ethics aside, they DID do internal testing, but the real test is always going to be letting it out into the actual playable build. You are asking for a bit much to expect a perfect game without this.

4.) Disagree, for intuitivity and degrees of skills transitioning between the modes it is highly recommended to keep the kits the same, otherwise you are essentially creating two entirely different games. What needs happening is microtuning and additional adjustments of certain interactions (Onsal Hakair PLD for example) and the above mentioned things.

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Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

Well said. These people lack true skill. Most likely they can't even do PvE openers and weaving and decide to like simple button mashing tactics. Ninja is cheap and yes many use it for its simplicity of running around, using range attacks, crowd control to easy Limit Break kill because its an easy play to win grind.

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I don't really believe anyone has true skill at a game mode that's only been out for three months.

I am vindicated.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

I am vindicated.

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Hi vindicated, I am Reinhardt.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I don't really believe anyone has true skill at a game mode that's only been out for three months.

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I could say the same to pve players who play safe or not theorize their rotation and wait for someone else to Video upload or post an update on their rotation till most the community adopts it. Since most of you aren't honers or innovators that are always thinking for even the smallest gap to improve on.
Just saying facts. Most of you come either from an MMO, RPG or none of the previously mentioned games types, and then come into an MMO to complain it's too hard make things easier rant.

There is skill involved, it's just you're oblivious to it and the tech. This mode removed a lot of stuff, but some old school tech still exists.

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Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

I could say the same to pve players who play safe or not theorize their rotation and wait for someone else to Video upload or post an update on their rotation till most the community adopts it. Since most of you aren't honers or innovators that are always thinking for even the smallest gap to improve on.
Just saying facts. Most of you come either from an MMO, RPG or none of the previously mentioned games types, and then come into an MMO to complain it's too hard make things easier rant.

There is skill involved, it's just you're oblivious to it and the tech. This mode removed a lot of stuff, but some old school tech still exists.

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Except you cannot ignore the fact that no matter how skillful a player may be, they will always lose to the game's subpar online environment. Pressing a button and having the chance for nothing to happen dilutes the entire discussion around "skill". Nothing stings more than making a good read, only for the server to defecate in your mouth

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

I am vindicated.

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Vindicated how exactly?

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

Except you cannot ignore the fact that no matter how skillful a player may be, they will always lose to the game's subpar online environment. Pressing a button and having the chance for nothing to happen dilutes the entire discussion around "skill". Nothing stings more than making a good read, only for the server to defecate in your mouth

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Cosign heavily especially when using purify....also after seeing the 6.2 changes im genuinely convinced they dont play their own mode. Balancing on win rates??? /sigh

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Vindicated how exactly?

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Thread title

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

Thread title

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So basically you're still just bad at pvp?

I don’t like that the PVP rewards are tied to one game mode. After 10 matches it’s really boring. Give us more verity in modes at lease. Having to do Crystal Conflict non stop is boring.

PVP is fucking garbage because there's way too much fucking crowd control and it genuinely feels the fucking apes """"""""BALANCING"""""""" this shit didn't even playtest it lmao

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Originally Posted by Ransu

So basically you're still just bad at pvp?

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Nah, it's garbage. Lack of Fetterward is proof enough.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

Nah, it's garbage. Lack of Fetterward is proof enough.

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Wym purify isn't enough to deal with literally 95% of all classes having some form of CC??????? On their perfect indie company netcode!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Wym purify isn't enough to deal with literally 95% of all classes having some form of CC??????? On their perfect indie company netcode!!!!!!!!

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Thats if youre lucky enough for it to register on the first button press

The true essence of pvp is options. Rock, Paper & Scissors.
Pvp is hot garbage. Those who say it isn't really lack the mental capacity to think multiple scenarios.

If Rock was a burst phase, paper would be shield/ damage reduction or CC and Scissors would sustain utility.

Not in that order, but depending on scenario, each of them can change into another choice not already chosen. Sometimes burst could be scissors and sustain could be a rock. I am unsure many will understand unless you played other forms or pvp in different games , such as fighters

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Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

The true essence of pvp is options. Rock, Paper & Scissors.
Pvp is hot garbage. Those who say it isn't really lack the mental capacity to think multiple scenarios.

If Rock was a burst phase, paper would be shield/ damage reduction or CC and Scissors would sustain utility.

Not in that order, but depending on scenario, each of them can change into another choice not already chosen. Sometimes burst could be scissors and sustain could be a rock. I am unsure many will understand unless you played other forms or pvp in different games , such as fighters

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All meaningless when the game doesn't acknowledge your inputs. Curious to know what fighting games you are playing if you think FFXIV's garbage online is acceptable enough to have a discussion about skill and counterplays.

Well of course this net code is garbage. But there is no hit confirms in here anyways. Just press a gcd and hits. I have 82 ping so usually I weave fine. This game is choreographed with a lot of stuff

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

All meaningless when the game doesn't acknowledge your inputs. Curious to know what fighting games you are playing if you think FFXIV's garbage online is acceptable enough to have a discussion about skill and counterplays.

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But played many games. Alpha, Ex, third strike, 4, tekken, mvc3, tatsunoko, dnf.

Different mmos too. WoW, Aion, Cabal, Dekaron, Guild War 2, Knight Online, Lineage II, Perfect World, Blade & Soul, Black Desert Online, MU Online, Ragnarok Online, Maplestory, Og Runescape, Diablo III, Shaiya, Silk road, SWOTR. Might be missing a few but some here and there to try it out games are in that list.

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Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

Well of course this net code is garbage. But there is no hit confirms in here anyways. Just press a gcd and hits. I have 82 ping so usually I weave fine. This game is choreographed with a lot of stuff





But played many games. Alpha, Ex, third strike, 4, tekken, mvc3, tatsunoko, dnf.

Different mmos too. WoW, Aion, Cabal, Dekaron, Guild War 2, Knight Online, Lineage II, Perfect World, Blade & Soul, Black Desert Online, MU Online, Ragnarok Online, Maplestory, Og Runescape, Diablo III, Shaiya, Silk road, SWOTR. Might be missing a few but some here and there to try it out games are in that list.

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Doesn't matter how well things are choregraphed if they just snapshot you. For instance, if you see MCH's LB, your first instinct would be to guard, but that doesn't matter because the second you see the rifle the damage is completely unavoidable. Then you have stupid shit like SMN's LB, where you need to be clairvoyant to avoid the initial damage. Don't even get me started how much visual garbage plagues the screen if you don't turn effects down to limited, but in doing so it also removes the majority of LB effects.

Besides DNF Duel, all those FGs you listed have absolutely atrocious online, so maybe you're tolerance for unresponsive gameplay is simply higher than many. And regarding the MMOs. WoW is the only one with actual decent online, provided there aren't too many people in the area.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

Doesn't matter how well things are choregraphed if they just snapshot you. For instance, if you see MCH's LB, your first instinct would be to guard, but that doesn't matter because the second you see the rifle the damage is completely unavoidable. Then you have stupid shit like SMN's LB, where you need to be clairvoyant to avoid the initial damage. Don't even get me started how much visual garbage plagues the screen if you don't turn effects down to limited, but in doing so it also removes the majority of LB effects.

Besides DNF Duel, all those FGs you listed have absolutely atrocious online, so maybe you're tolerance for unresponsive gameplay is simply higher than many. And regarding the MMOs. WoW is the only one with actual decent online, provided there aren't too many people in the area.

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Correct and I'm glad you are knowledgeable. I liked your post just to show. Yes LB I think need a cast time before snapshots apply.for a few of those classes. Cause its indeed hard af to react to. Even with limited effects. Yes everything is garbage.

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Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

Correct and I'm glad you are knowledgeable. I liked your post just to show. Yes LB I think need a cast time before snapshots apply.for a few of those classes. Cause its indeed hard af to react to. Even with limited effects. Yes everything is garbage.

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Glad we could come to an understanding.

IDK how it's even remotely possible but it's now so much more shittier and garbagier than the last updates.

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

IDK how it's even remotely possible but it's now so much more shittier and garbagier than the last updates.

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Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Working as intended.

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Big Facts lol

Another season of garbage. Pass.

The draw-in of Blota ignores resilience huh. Vindicated, yet again.

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

The draw-in of Blota ignores resilience huh. Vindicated, yet again.

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pretty darn annoying huh?