Alliance Raids and players not waiting for Cutscene Watchers

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

"Just pay attention" Hm. I agree that people should, many don't...
But following the herd may work, it may not. But telling new people with no infos to just pay attention and they will be gucci? Debatable, not what i would say tho.

You are invulnerable a bit after a cutscene but you still can die basically "immediately" after because you had no time nor way of knowing whats up. Are you even? I know you are invuln in cutscene but i also saw people die immediately after they spawned in, i dont remember.
For the Ball in Puppets, cutsceners can basically miss over half of the fight. Yes, that part is like... who cares? But whats the fun of missing half of a fight?

There is literally nothing like the feeling of doing new (to you) content for the first time and people not being able to wait that one minute (a bit more for false idol, that one is long) is like... really, you have THAT little time to play that a FEW minutes will make you not have enough of it?
In an MMO?
Where a thing can take up to 20 minutes longer than it "usually" does because of people just dying (new and not new a like) a lot?

Why does everybody that plays on their own time have to fear missing out on a good chunk of fights just because the others play without having any spare time, as example? Why are you special for playing without the neccessary time but people wanting to watch cutscenes AND start as a team are rude to want to do so.

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Usually a lot of people have already finished the alliance raid multiple times, I dont think it's fair to just go out and demand that they all value someone else's time over their own. And you cant have it both ways here: it cant at the same time be only a small deal for everyone to wait the short time a cutscene is over but a big deal to miss 'half the fight' for a cutscene watchers. Either it's a big deal for both and you're asking a big favor of people to not start early or it's only small deal for both and waiting or not waiting doesnt really matter.

Cutscene length is a game design issue, a lot of the cutscene at the last boss of paradigm's breach is useless fluff that adds nothing to the story. Like why do we need to see 9s and 2b get clapped by the girl in red? The real final boss in bunker is the giant 2p, not the sphere.

To me it kind of depends on what is missed vs. what is gained by watching cutscenes and pulling during cutscenes. If it is just the usual boss banter, then if someone wants to pull eary it isn't a big deal to me. The big difference to Praetorium back in the day is that Praetorium cutscenes happened so frequently they would interrupt each other, cancelling ongoing cutscenes to play whatever cutscene triggered next. So the new player would get a jumbled and incoherent mess of a story, whereas the only tradeoff in Alliance raids will only ever be missing a bit of boss banter and maybe the first one or two mechanics.
As banter remains in the chatbox for easy reference, and mechanics are trivial in all Alliance raids anyway, I think it is, at least for the current Alliance raids, a fair tradeoff that you get to pick for yourself. Of course, if Square ever decides to put more important story bit into cutscenes or boss banter, that might very well change. If it ever does, in those cases making the boss invulnerable to pulls while people are watching cutscenes might be a decent idea.

As is right now, if everyone wants to wait, perfect. If someone doesn't want to wait, they are free to pull. So long as enough people join in and thereby implicitly agree to the pull, the pull will proceed, otherwise the person who pulled will just solo wipe. One person more or less is not gonna affect the overall clear speed much overall anyway, which is the main reason why people don't wait compared to full or light party content: The loss of time from waiting is not really made up for by having an extra person around, whereas with the other content one person makes a huge difference for mechanics and damage.

Of course, for the Nier raids, I will obviously recommend to make an exception: All cutscenes should automatically be skipped, even if you are playing them for the first time, so you do not need to suffer the nonsense that is that story. ;)

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Usually a lot of people have already finished the alliance raid multiple times, I dont think it's fair to just go out and demand that they all value someone else's time over their own. And you cant have it both ways here: it cant at the same time be only a small deal for everyone to wait the short time a cutscene is over but a big deal to miss 'half the fight' for a cutscene watchers. Either it's a big deal for both and you're asking a big favor of people to not start early or it's only small deal for both and waiting or not waiting doesnt really matter.

Cutscene length is a game design issue, a lot of the cutscene at the last boss of paradigm's breach is useless fluff that adds nothing to the story. Like why do we need to see 9s and 2b get clapped by the girl in red? The real final boss in bunker is the giant 2p, not the sphere.

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MMO.

There will always be new people.

New people are not expected to miss parts of the fights just because they started playing later than you.
Why are you, who did it before later new people, special and tell them to just miss things if they want to watch cutscenes. Just because you do it that way and miss parts of fights, doesnt mean others should be expected to want it that way.

I just checked. The Cutscene of False Idol is exactly 1 Minute and 42 seconds long (really feels longer LOL).
Do you not have 2 minutes time?

I have 2 Minutes time if i play a game since i dont expect every roulette i do to be speedran by everybody.

Legit, the most early pulls when there are cutsceners are when an AST places down star. I always say that a bomb has been planted then.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

MMO.

There will always be new people.

New people are not expected to miss parts of the fights just because they started playing later than you.
Why are you, who did it before later new people, special and tell them to just miss things if they want to watch cutscenes. Just because you do it that way and miss parts of fights, doesnt mean others should be expected to want it that way.

I just checked. The Cutscene of False Idol is exactly 1 Minute and 42 seconds long (really feels longer LOL).
Do you not have 2 minutes time?

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Given how the average run of Tower these days seems to take excessively long, asking for an extra 2 minutes of my already-strained time yes is a bit much to ask given how weight is distributed in alliance raids-newer players often queue in without a clue how to survive, proceed to drag things out due to the weakness debuff, and those of us who are essentially carrying them are considered bad guys by some because we've reached the end of our patience by that point and just want to get on with things.

If a player chooses to not respect my time by being unprepared and dragging out a run then I do not have to sit tight and emote for 2 minutes straight before the final boss. The insufficient rewards, huge varience in runtime length, and the potential drama over a minority of people wanting to hold up the majority of the raid because of cutscenes isn't doing much to convince me to try my luck with Alliance Raid roulette again. As it stands now, I do not use it on my main and on my alts I only unlocked the Crystal Tower series-but even World of Darkness can be a problem raid on the level of Orbonne Monastery on my datacenter.

Can we not do this again? We were condemned to watching cutscenes in MSQ roulette the last time people started whining about cutscene watchers. The last thing we need is to get trapped watching them in bloody Crystal Tower.

truth is same with MSQ rouletes where you cant skip . you can watch freely your cutscene, noone should to kick you for watching it . thing is you will do that duty again soon anyway again . so you can fully experience whole fight . and only option how to check everyone is ready is by shouting or ready check, but it doesnt working as it should be . they really should redesign alliance raids where only before the start of raid and after the last battle after looting and leaving duty will be some cutscene :]

What if they add bonus tomestones and exp for people who 100% the raid and its cutscenes.

:)

Oh, you are going to get to see it.... over and over......and over again.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

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„Respect for me, not for thee“, huh?

Why do you play an mmo instad of singleplayer, where you dont have to deal with NEW people or close to new people with a strained timeline? You know, where you can take your own time?
Not intended to be an „just quit lol“ thing. But doing duties with no extra time seems silly to me.

Why should this newby over there watch an excessive guide on normal content if they want to go blind and enjoy it as is?
I hope you don‘t die a lot in content you are new to, then. Since that would be wasting everybodies time.

As said, there is nothing like experiencing new (to you) content for the first time.
It took me forever to get a hang if the black/white mechanic on red girl because my brain works badly with so many visual effects.

This game has a story.
Raids have a story.
Boss cutscenes are part of that.

You play the mmo without any time to spare, not others.

There will always be new people.
You were new to duties once, too.
People play games for enjoyment, not to be rushed by people that have no time and want to zoom through roulettes in no time flat.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Can we not do this again? We were condemned to watching cutscenes in MSQ roulette the last time people started whining about cutscene watchers. The last thing we need is to get trapped watching them in bloody Crystal Tower.

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No worries cutscenes in crystal tower are only boss scenes its not until after the last boss fight u get some story scenes. if i remember it right its not until ivalice raid it started with story scene before the boss fight

Considering that the Ivalice raids are already something most of the player-base actively avoids, I can only imagine the response to having to sit through those cutscenes again.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

„Respect for me, not for thee“, huh?

Why do you play an mmo instad of singleplayer, where you dont have to deal with NEW people or close to new people with a strained timeline? You know, where you can take your own time?
Not intended to be an „just quit lol“ thing. But doing duties with no extra time seems silly to me.

Why should this newby over there watch an excessive guide on normal content if they want to go blind and enjoy it as is?
I hope you don‘t die a lot in content you are new to, then. Since that would be wasting everybodies time.

As said, there is nothing like experiencing new (to you) content for the first time.
It took me forever to get a hang if the black/white mechanic on red girl because my brain works badly with so many visual effects.

This game has a story.
Raids have a story.
Boss cutscenes are part of that.

You play the mmo without any time to spare, not others.

There will always be new people.
You were new to duties once, too.
People play games for enjoyment, not to be rushed by people that have no time and want to zoom through roulettes in no time flat.

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Why do you play an mmo instead of a singleplayer, where you don't have to worry about OTHER people or how they value their time? You know, where you can take your ownt time?
Not intended to a a "just quit lol" thing. But doing duties and holding other people hostage seems silly to me

This game has a story(and other players)
Raids have a story(and 23 other players)
Boss cutscenes are part of that(and not one person here has said you should skip them if you don't want to)

You play the mmo without consideration of others

People play games for enjoyment, and if that enjoyment differs from yours, that doesnt make you right.

Unfortunately, we've gotten more of this recently. The community used to watch the cutscenes for the most part when they saw a sprout in the group.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Unfortunately, we've gotten more of this recently. The community used to watch the cutscenes for the most part when they saw a sprout in the group.

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More and more WoW refugees and players from other MMOs where speed was the name of the game and they didn't wait for anyone, ever. Or salty veteran players with a hidden grudge against newcomers or that don't remember their own days as sprouts.

What's this got to do with WoW?

Anyhow, nothing new. If people wait, they wait. If people early pull, just watch the CS and join in after they finish it. If people pressuring or even bullying said newcomer to skip then it's entirely a different matter altogether that can be reported and move on. It's not the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

You're already compensated for it with tomes and wondrous tails retries, just wait for them and don't be that guy.

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No you aren't. Unless you mean the bonus poetics for there being first timers. In which case, most veteran players don't have any use for poetics. So it's hardly an incentive. Time wise though, you're ironically punished for getting anything above Void Ark given the higher level raids take significantly longer even without any cut scenes. Hence why the whole naked queuing happens.

Either way, people aren't going to wait outside of the relevant patches this content releases in. While it may sucks, this has been the norm since 24 mans started. Sometimes you'll have people hold off pulling. Other times you won't. Unless Prae, it isn't like watching the cut scene will have you zone into a dead boss. So just enjoy it and pop in afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Beytran70

More and more WoW refugees and players from other MMOs where speed was the name of the game and they didn't wait for anyone, ever. Or salty veteran players with a hidden grudge against newcomers or that don't remember their own days as sprouts.

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My dude, people waited more for the Nier cut scenes than they ever did for Ivalice or Shadow of Mhach, ya know, the two raid series that released long before the big WoW exodus. This has nothing whatsoever to do with an influx of new players but rather long time players simply not caring to wait.

I can only hope they start implementing a Prae type approach and make the cutscenes unskippable. People in here act like it is the end of the world. You were new once and I know that some people out there have mental disorders such as OCD where missing part of the fight would cause them stress. That person would need to do the fight again to get the full experience. Because of your impatience, now they have to run a 30-45 minute raid again because you are too selfish to take your 2 minute bio break in your jar during the CS.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

Why do you play an mmo instead of a singleplayer, where you don't have to worry about OTHER people or how they value their time? You know, where you can take your ownt time?
Not intended to a a "just quit lol" thing. But doing duties and holding other people hostage seems silly to me

This game has a story(and other players)
Raids have a story(and 23 other players)
Boss cutscenes are part of that(and not one person here has said you should skip them if you don't want to)

You play the mmo without consideration of others

People play games for enjoyment, and if that enjoyment differs from yours, that doesnt make you right.

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Why not answer me instead?

You chose to play a group based game for what purpose if you can't wait for a person to be new?
Why does a new person have to bend to the other person because they chose to not week 1 stuff and just happen to start playing later?

How people with little time use their time is their business, of course, not going to tell them not to play.
But if they CAN NOT possibly EVER take more time than usual for an instance without the new people wasting their precious time, then they shouldnt do long roulettes to begin with.
You dont need to do alliance or leveling roulettes, which usually take the longest. Especially since the Paradigms Cutscene isnt even THAT long, it just FEELS long. It's almost 2 minutes.

You also can use the PF.

Can't wait for getting that back at me "new people also could use the pf"
Yes, could, goes both ways.

I love how you go the way and saying you're being held hostage when you chose to do random roulettes with random people in an mmo thats more popular than ever and has more new people than ever. Who's being held hostage by who if you chose to go to your abducter in the first place?
"respect for me, not for thee"

The problem simply arises from the fact that SE is trying to funnel players into content they have no interest in doing with rewards. Would be intersting to see all roulette rewards turned off for a couple of weeks. It would be a much healthier population doing content with no Castrum leavers, cutscene skippers, dungeon wall-to-wallers, CT cheesers and so on. Or maybe it will serve as a gentle reminder to all those "newbies" who demanded veterans' blood for even daring to think about not fully and unequivocally accommodating them that 30-minute queues for every instanced piece of content aren't fun.

The simple fact of the matter is that not doing anything about it will piss a lot of people off, but actually doing something about it will ALSO piss a lot of people off.

Probably the reason why the devs never acknowledge this issue.

I pull during cutscenes. Especially if it’s the moment someone says cutscenes.

It’s never a “please” wait for cutscenes. It’s never the person watching cutscenes. It’s usually a single word or a demand.

I’m not obligated to wait, as people aren’t obligated to use their manners. If the community had a problem with what I do, they wouldn’t start attacking as soon as I pulled

Also lately, a lot of the cutscene watchers don’t even seem to be new

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

I mean you joined the raid knowing there would potentially be people new to it, the game even tells you when someone is new to the duty. If you have a problem with it then don't join pugs and make your own parties of people who already have or don't care. Yeah, the content is years old, but for many people it's brand new. Especially seeing as how we've had a surge of new players lately. Some of you forget not everyone has been here for years. Your problem began the moment you started playing a story-focused game, que'd for pug content knowing full well there would be people who, surprise surprise actually want to experience the story in a story-focused game (shocking I know), then got mad about it. Obviously, as someone who's done it already I prefer to not have to wait for people especially when I don't have a lot of time, and when I get a group full of people who auto-skip and we just do the content it's nice, but I accept the reality that I will sometimes have to wait, and respect the people who are going through the story for the first time.

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Nice I wonder how many pre 24 man raids have you done before to do raid roulettes.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

The real problem with that idea is that other players just bully the person watching cutscenes into skipping so they can continue.

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I mean, in my two years of playing, I have never seen anyone bully someone into skipping a cutscene. The only bullying I have EVER seen in regards to someone pulling during cutscene is people bullying and attacking the person who did it. No one who pulls early cares if you watch your cutscene or not. If you skip watching it because of an early pull, that's your decision.

See, this is why from Shadowbringers onwards they don't really have cutscenes (barring the basic dungeon intro cutscene). They put it before or directly after the dungeon for this very reason. As for why people do it in Allaince Raids as opposed to other content, well that is due to tuning and over gearing. Even the Neir raids can be done with half the people acting like dodo's, so to that one impatient person pulling while people are watching cutscenes, a couple of people missing (even if it happens to be both your healers) isn't really an issue cause those people being late to the boss (or not participating at all) does not really impact being able to kill, just how fast you can kill it.

I found when doing the Neir raids in the first week or two, most people would wait for cutscenes and the like, but once they're like a month or two in, or the next part is released, you would see that kind of actions being much more common I would assume. It's hit or miss depending on your party makeup/composition, and perhaps even server/data centre general makeup. Afterall, all it takes is one person to pull while others watch cutscenes, and everyone then naturally just follows along into the fight. So it's less a culture wide thing and more just once the boss is engaged, you might as well engage too.

This can't really be done in 8 man's, because the in trial cutscenes are only before the fight starts (so while the barrier is still up) and phase transition cutscenes which are mandatory, and as for dungeons, well unlike an Alliance Raid with 24 people, 2 missing from that is not an issue, whereas even one missing from a 4 stack (especially if it's a healer) can be an issue. It's also a time issue. Assuming everyone is not screwing up, with the expectation of the first two Crystal Tower raids (which can be done in like 10-20min depending on player comp) but everything else forward, that being World of Darkness, Void Ark, Rabanastre and Neir can call be a minimum of like 30min to like an hour on average depending on who is new, and if people are screwing up or not. Dungeons won't go beyond 20min really ever even if you are single pulling (so long as people are doing semi-decent damage and not being absolute chodes not playing the game properly or with the tiniest bit of competency), same with trials being on average 5-10 minutes depending on combined skill/player level.

So it's a combination of things. It's one person pulling who is impatient, and so everyone not in a cutscene decides to engage because you might as well once someone pulls the boss, and the fact that barring the first two crystal tower raids, these can go from very fast or absurdly slow. As for what could be done, barring making cutscenes mandatory and un-skippable (which will piss off a fair few people, especially those spamming it for glam), or just locking out the boss until no one is in a cutscene with the usual barrier like it does at the start of any dungeon, not sure what else could be done.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

I pull during cutscenes. Especially if it’s the moment someone says cutscenes.

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I have seen that behaviour before when our tank was watching, it ended up with the team getting killed. If you are the tank, then in most cases its well doable, so i would say its no issue. As tank (and especialy if you know the dungeon) you are often well aware of your capabilities. If you can 3man a dugeon, then go ahead and do so. In the end, if you realy care about the fight and missed it because the team was able to beat it without you, you can just do the dungeon twice.

But i have seen toxic cases often enough in which people were complaining about cutscene watchers (of which a few definitely were new). Im glad that they failed hard and ragequited at some point. FF is still a story driven game, so story gets priority in handling issues to me. First time cutscene watchers on that do get priority to me. Too bad the final bosses in dungeons often do not have the same system as raids (but only for first time watchers). It would have solved this discussion (if people are new, you cant start the fight early).

And before thinking: why do i need to wait? You get extra rewards when new people are in the party, that should be enough for that.

2015: Hold on, this isn't Prae. *waits for a minute at max*
Current year: I pull during cutscenes

And people wonder why others say that the community isn't as good as they have heard, lol. We need the trust system to include 24man content and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

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Good thing i never queue alone. Usually tank/healer combo so there’s no chance of failing hard. Especially as it will force people into the arena eventually, so long as those people not participating aren’t in a cutscene.

Also, that reward for new people, is minuscule enough to not matter one way of the other. Especially when if its not a max level duty, the reward is minuscule. A little exp which doesn’t make enough difference, or poetics which I don’t need. Note the “for swift completion” in the dialogue when notified of a new player as well.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Good thing i never queue alone. Usually tank/healer combo so there’s no chance of failing hard. Especially as it will force people into the arena eventually, so long as those people not participating aren’t in a cutscene.

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In that case i would definitely say that most fights are going to be easy to handle, there is no need to wait. At least if they say cutscene you know you wont have to wait for them as it will take them extra long anyway. Its better than guessing whether they are afk or not.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Also, that reward for new people, is minuscule enough to not matter one way of the other. Especially when if its not a max level duty, the reward is minuscule. A little exp which doesn’t make enough difference, or poetics which I don’t need. Note the “for swift completion” in the dialogue when notified of a new player as well.

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But if im right, most duty roulettes do not involve the max level, and for the levels it has, those poetics do matter. Which if you choose it then, is something you deliberately did. That the rewards are then obsolete is something you accepted the moment you started that duty. (although, for a part you could consider the easy xp as reward vs a difficult dungeon with an equal bonus)

In the end, the real issue is that some cutscenes are excessively long for such boss fight. I can totaly understand that the 10th time you play the dungeon you cant bother waiting for it. If it was enforced, then obviously it will feel out of your control, but it might be easier to accept. But in the end, as most dungeons are easy enough, i dont think its an issue if you proceed anyway. It doesnt matter if the boss took 1 minute or 4 minutes to the player that was watching the cutscene, they will know what happened anyway if the boss happens to be already dead at the end of the cutscene. The story isnt disrupted here at least. They only miss the fight (which especialy for people who only care about the story isnt even an issue).

So what?

If you get locked out you can just teleport into the arena now, it's not like the old days anymore where if you get locked out you just miss the fight.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

I can totaly understand that the 10th time you play the dungeon you cant bother waiting for it.

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I think this is the point most people who don’t wait have. Though its not necessarily always a numbered value. It could be about how old the content itself is. I understand there will always be new people wanting their first time experience in a place, but maybe mine was 6 years ago. Queueing for say Syrcus as an example, every day, sometimes multiple times a day, looking for a specific piece of loot as my weekly piece.

A lot of this content has been farmed to oblivion. While it may be a persons first run, it could very well be another’s 1000th run. In those 1000 runs, how many “first timers” have they encountered?
How long have they spent waiting? Back when alliances were sort of new, it went beyond waiting for the cutscene. There was often a few minutes of explaining the mechanics in depth to avoid wiping. Waiting, waiting and waiting. I personally, am just done waiting in some of the years old content

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

1 person doesn't get to hold up 23 other people in Crystal Tower, same applies for other raids that are years old. You can watch the cutscene and remain invulnerable as long as you do not exit out early, and aren't missing much in later raids because the last actual pre-final boss cutscene is an unskipable transition.

Puppet's Bunker is already a long headache of a raid so I cannot blame anyone who pulls the last boss early, seeing as by that point everyone is desperate to just get out of there.

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it attitudes like this that led to the MSQ roulette cutscenes being unskippable. Its literally 1-2 minutes and wouldnt hurt anyone to wait. Id rather that then forced unskippable cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

it attitudes like this that led to the MSQ roulette cutscenes being unskippable. Its literally 1-2 minutes and wouldnt hurt anyone to wait. Id rather that then forced unskippable cutscenes.

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No, msq are unskippable because they are in the middle of the duty and actually have story.
Don’t construe facts to fit your argument

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

it attitudes like this that led to the MSQ roulette cutscenes being unskippable. Its literally 1-2 minutes and wouldnt hurt anyone to wait. Id rather that then forced unskippable cutscenes.

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They're also unskippable because you could complete the entirety of Praetorium before the cutscene after the Iron Giant was done. Has nothing to do with attitude.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

it attitudes like this that led to the MSQ roulette cutscenes being unskippable. Its literally 1-2 minutes and wouldnt hurt anyone to wait. Id rather that then forced unskippable cutscenes.

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Prae cutscenes are so long with so little gameplay happening inbetween that it's a continous cutscene chain and you get out of it long after everyone else has left. It's also widely acknowledged that that was a bad way of designing a dungeon. Meanwhile in an alliance raid you are at most missing a bit of the final boss. That's a pretty big difference in case you havent noticed.

What you're saying is 'what if instead of waiting for the devs to make the cutscene unskippable, we just pretended that it already is'. That doesnt really feel like you are trying to avert something.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

No, msq are unskippable because they are in the middle of the duty and actually have story.
Don’t construe facts to fit your argument

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Im not, its because time and time again people wouldnt wait and led to them being unskippable. Do you seriously think if people had been a bit more patient and welcoming to new players that they would have felt the need to put time and development into making them unskippable? - Of course they wouldn't. But the importance is as you say, because preatorium and castram have a lot more poignant story.

In the 24 man it is true that the cutscenes generally aren't story heavy and are often the arrival of x boss. But that is still a part of the story as a whole... if people dont want to run the whole thing due to time then don't run it at all. Its about player experience and often it isnt 1 holding up 23 other people, its 1 or 2 being impatient and pulling without even bothering to ask 23 other people if they are happy to wait for 1 person to watch the cutscene. It goes beyond this though, because often that impatience is also the reason players dont know what is going on mechanically because there was no time to actually tell them.

Personally, if you really cant abide being in there that much, then dont que for the content.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

Personally, if you really cant abide being in there that much, then dont que for the content.

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Ah yes, telling someone not to play. How valiant and virtuous of you. Those who don’t wait for cutscenes don’t tell people not to play and don’t get mad when the person doesn’t skip them. They are still welcome to their cutscene. But those who want to make the most of their time, simply shouldn’t play

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

Unfortunately, nothing can be done short of keeping the party locked in a preparation bubble a la, the dungeon's start, until the cutscene is done. At that point I'm sure we'd see a rash of people abandoning the run out of impatience. Ultimately, it's down to the community's social norms and overall willingness to set aside themselves for a few minutes to let new players enjoy their first time experience.

Please be prepared for a lot of heat from your post, it's been the norm for all other threads on the same topic.

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I doubt that people would sink twenty minutes into an Alliance Raid, just to abandon because they have to wait for a minute long cutscene.

As a newer player, I make sure to watch the cut scenes the first time I do a dungeon. I skip them after that. Mostly, the group waits for those of us in the cut scene. When they don't, it doesn't bother me. The option to teleport to the boss when the scene is over is great. Sure, I miss the beginning of the fight, but it's usually not much, especially as you continue to level. I do think sometimes people mean to wait, but forget.

Regardless, I appreciate the system. I don't think it's perfect, but I don't have the prefect answer either. If I really want to see a fight and feel I missed out, I re-queue. It's only happened once. Silly cutscene was so long I missed the entire fight (why do they make it that long right there??). I just view it as a trade off for a game that is more story heavy than what I've generally done for MMOs. I know there is an option to watch the cutscenes later, but I don't want to mess up the order of the story. If someone gets mad at me for watching, oh well.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Unfortunately, we've gotten more of this recently. The community used to watch the cutscenes for the most part when they saw a sprout in the group.

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I've kinda considered that maybe they should reverse the decision to pull someone automatically into the arena. People did run in before that was a thing, but they also faced the consequences for doing so. Run in and lock others in the party out? Good luck.

It would probably be better to have these raid stories told as much as possible outside or at exit. Make the story active along raid told in text dialogue(voice over would be better, but that's a bit pricey) and just visualization as you proceed.