DPS who pull mobs

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Originally Posted by Arrius

The DPS should be held accountable for any pulls they do intentionally ahead of the tank. Why should they get away with running ahead and bring back groups from across multiple rooms when the current mobs aren't done yet?

Did you talk to the tank about it first to suggest that they can pick up speed? Did the healer gave its okay on that as well?
If they did not try anything in that direction and just run off to pick up additional groups, then it's their fault if chaos ensures if that tank doesn't do anything to manage the situation.

You have the tools and options there: Communicate, kick the tank, or leave the dungeon yourself.

... hm, now I have to ask support that intentionally pulling ahead is considered griefing as well and a bannable offense.

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Or you could stop acting like a child and just do your job to get out of the dungeon faster. Then you'll never have to see those DPS ever again.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

The DPS should be held accountable for any pulls they do intentionally ahead of the tank. Why should they get away with running ahead and bring back groups from across multiple rooms when the current mobs aren't done yet?

Did you talk to the tank about it first to suggest that they can pick up speed? Did the healer gave its okay on that as well?
If they did not try anything in that direction and just run off to pick up additional groups, then it's their fault if chaos ensures if that tank doesn't do anything to manage the situation.

You have the tools and options there: Communicate, kick the tank, or leave the dungeon yourself.

... hm, now I have to ask support that intentionally pulling ahead is considered griefing as well and a bannable offense.

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you realize that the tank "refusing to manage the situation" is that tank maliciously stopping their aoe rotation, right? if a dps or healer brings extra mobs to you , the only way you wont pick them up is if you turn off your tank stance or switch to single target.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

The DPS should be held accountable for any pulls they do intentionally ahead of the tank. Why should they get away with running ahead and bring back groups from across multiple rooms when the current mobs aren't done yet?

Did you talk to the tank about it first to suggest that they can pick up speed? Did the healer gave its okay on that as well?
If they did not try anything in that direction and just run off to pick up additional groups, then it's their fault if chaos ensures if that tank doesn't do anything to manage the situation.

You have the tools and options there: Communicate, kick the tank, or leave the dungeon yourself.

... hm, now I have to ask support that intentionally pulling ahead is considered griefing as well and a bannable offense.

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The sooner damage starts going out, the faster mobs will die, the faster the dungeon will be.

It's very rare when a DPS pulls so much mob that it turns a reasonable pull into one that is too big. These tanks usually soil their diapers over DPS/healers who just keep walking expecting a baby pull to be a normal one, or DPS/healers who are god forbid, running a couple meter ahead of them and therefore are in range to attack sooner.
And yet it's still the tank's job to grab aggro of the mobs.
Yeah, I'm gonna either try to kick the tank or leave, but not without reporting him as well if that happens to me.

Ignoring the whole conversation because it’s been done over and over but I really like your energy OP. I like that you’re not super territorial but ask that the dps actually do it properly if they have to be extra speedy. I’ve picked my fair share of dps off the ground who sprinted ahead while my sprint was on CD and face pulled everything trying to be “helpful”. Use arms/shields/self heals and run back to the tank if you really just gotta shave those extra seconds off.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Yeah, I'm gonna either try to kick the tank or leave, but not without reporting him as well if that happens to me.

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I agree with you and the people here it's toxic behavior from the tank to let a DPS die because they pulled mobs. At the same time, it's not a reportable offense if the tank keeps his mouth shut while doing it. How would the GM discern a tank letting someone die from spite from tanks letting someone die from incompetency if there are no chat logs to show he was being malicious.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

I agree with you and the people here it's toxic behavior from the tank to let a DPS die because they pulled mobs. At the same time, it's not a reportable offense if the tank keeps his mouth shut while doing it. How would the GM discern a tank letting someone die from spite from tanks letting someone die from incompetency if there are no chat logs to show he was being malicious.

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If GMs have access to the battle log, they could possibly see the tank stopping his use of AOE, dropping his stance, and such.

I don't think a GM would punish a player for stopping the use of aoes etc, they'd probably need to be more blatant about things. Especially if the group has the chance to kick the tank and replace them.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Question would you also let the healer die thus wiping the group if they were the ones that pulled?

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If they ran ahead of me and pulled everything else while Im trying to get aggro on a mob before them? Yes.
If they pull the boss even when I typed "brb", or "wait a sec please" Then yes.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Your job is not limited to simply pulling mobs but establishing and maintaining aggro. Allowing the DPS to die out of some petty "revenge" because they ran ahead isn't doing your job. It's the equivalent of a healer refusing to heal because they got angry at someone.

And in such a scenario, you're the one I'm initiating the Vote Kick on because you're causing an actual issue. Some rando DPS or healer pulling ahead didn't impact anything except to bruise your ego slightly. You electing to let said DPS die puts more work on me as the potential healer and/or simply wastes time since now we have a DPS with weakness. You're in the wrong no matter what justification you want to spin.

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I know what my job is as a tank, which is why I personally have an issue with DPS trying to tank for me. There is no Ego, nothing is being spun, Im the Tank, let me do my job and tank. Its that simple. What is the point of me being a tank if a dps is gonna do it for me? Its not revenge either, they decide they want to be tank, ill let them be tank; similar to when a 2nd tank sees that Im trying to be Main tank, but then they completely steal aggro off of me and take my job. Call it petty, yes, and Ill 100% admit Im aware Im being petty. I wont hide it.
And Its just as petty to say Im being to slow, and call me a bad tank or a Griefer for not moving at the speed and level that the DPS wants me to.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Do you know refusing to do your job and letting people die for it is reportable since it's griefing?

Someone running ahead isn't preventing you from doing your actual job, that is grabbing aggro, or doesn't mean that they want to tank, it just means that they're faster than you. You're a bad tank and a bad team player with that attitude, no two ways around it.

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I was doing my job. But then somebody else decides they are a better tank and dont have time for me to tank, and do it themselves.
Im not gonna fight somebody who wants it that much more then me that they will take my job. Just wait a second or 2 for me to grab the enemies, and then Ill get the other enemies and do the Wall-to-wall Im expected to do. If im not fast enough, then by all means, take over.
If im just gonna be called a bad tank for not being as fast as they want me to be. Cool, Ill just stick to healing

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Your job is to maintain threat, that is quite literally your minimum. If a dps has it, you are not doing your minimum. I don't care if he pulled something else before you did SOMEHOW to even begin with, because intentionally choosing to not keep threat and wasting everyone's time, not just that one dps, is quite literally griefing.

Would you be fine with the healer no longer healing you if you stood in one aoe?

Would you be fine with a dps just auto attacking because you caused him to miss a positional?

Why is it okay for you to not do what you came to do, but not okay for others?

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Like I said a few times..I know what my job is as a Tank. If a dps decides to run ahead and do it themselves. Thats on them, Ill let them do it. Call it petty, because it is. I wont lie about it. Im trying to tank, let me tank. Dont take my job and then call me a bad tank for not letting me tank.

Same goes for a healer, if they wanna run ahead and try to take my job, more power to them.
Just wait a second for me to get going. Just because Im max level, doesnt mean I have the same skill ceiling or are as fast as others.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If they ran ahead of me and pulled everything else while Im trying to get aggro on a mob before them? Yes.
If they pull the boss even when I typed "brb", or "wait a sec please" Then yes.



I know what my job is as a tank, which is why I personally have an issue with DPS trying to tank for me. There is no Ego, nothing is being spun, Im the Tank, let me do my job and tank. Its that simple. What is the point of me being a tank if a dps is gonna do it for me? Its not revenge either, they decide they want to be tank, ill let them be tank; similar to when a 2nd tank sees that Im trying to be Main tank, but then they completely steal aggro off of me and take my job. Call it petty, yes, and Ill 100% admit Im aware Im being petty. I wont hide it.
And Its just as petty to say Im being to slow, and call me a bad tank or a Griefer for not moving at the speed and level that the DPS wants me to.



I was doing my job. But then somebody else decides they are a better tank and dont have time for me to tank, and do it themselves.
Im not gonna fight somebody who wants it that much more then me that they will take my job. Just wait a second or 2 for me to grab the enemies, and then Ill get the other enemies and do the Wall-to-wall Im expected to do. If im not fast enough, then by all means, take over.
If im just gonna be called a bad tank for not being as fast as they want me to be. Cool, Ill just stick to healing



Like I said a few times..I know what my job is as a Tank. If a dps decides to run ahead and do it themselves. Thats on them, Ill let them do it. Call it petty, because it is. I wont lie about it. Im trying to tank, let me tank. Dont take my job and then call me a bad tank for not letting me tank.

Same goes for a healer, if they wanna run ahead and try to take my job, more power to them.
Just wait a second for me to get going. Just because Im max level, doesnt mean I have the same skill ceiling or are as fast as others.

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Sorry on mobile, but letting the healer die will result in throwing the two other players under the bus. That point it is a numbers game why punish two others just to prove a point against one. I get for you pulling is not fair towards you but that is a 1:1 normally if a dps does it. If a healer does it you are putting 2 others in the crossfire and wasting their time which is extremely unfair.

Does not seem legit does it?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If they ran ahead of me and pulled everything else while Im trying to get aggro on a mob before them?



I know what my job is as a tank, which is why I personally have an issue with DPS trying to tank for me. There is no Ego, nothing is being spun, Im the Tank, let me do my job and tank.

I was doing my job. But then somebody else decides they are a better tank and dont have time for me to tank, and do it themselves.
Im not gonna fight somebody who wants it that much more then me that they will take my job.

If a dps decides to run ahead and do it themselves. Thats on them, Ill let them do it. Call it petty, because it is. I wont lie about it. Im trying to tank, let me tank. Dont take my job and then call me a bad tank for not letting me tank.

Same goes for a healer, if they wanna run ahead and try to take my job, more power to them.

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I'm sorry, but who's not letting you tank? You just need to come to mobs and start pressing AOE rotation and voila - All agro is yours! All you need to do is start actually doing your job instead of playing the *God's game*.
I swear, some people need to get off their high horse and chill sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Sorry on mobile, but letting the healer die will result in throwing the two other players under the bus. That point it is a numbers game why punish two others just to prove a point against one. I get for you pulling is not fair towards you but that is a 1:1 normally if a dps does it. If a healer does it you are putting 2 others in the crossfire and wasting their time which is extremely unfair.

Does not seem legit does it?

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It simply wouldn't happen if the Healer didnt run ahead and pull the other mobs for me.
If they are just doing their job and healing, then its not their fault if they pull aggro as we get to the next Mob. Its one thing if they generated aggro from healing, its another thing to literally run ahead and attack to pull the other groups.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I know what my job is as a tank

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Do you, though? It is the responsibility of every player, regardless of role, to continuously contribute towards the successful completion of the duty. In almost every duty in the game this is achieved by slaying enemies. A tank contributes by 1) reducing enemy HP, and 2) mitigating incoming damage to allow the healer more time to reduce enemy HP.

Could you please explain how deliberately murdering your allies and refusing to attack the enemies is doing your job? There's a case to be made that by facilitating a wipe you are restoring enemy HP and undoing progress made by the party.

There are plenty of games with communities that encourage ego-centric toxicity, but this isn't one of them. Your attitude is an unwelcome hinderance. Get better or get out.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

I'm sorry, but who's not letting you tank? You just need to come to mobs and start pressing AOE rotation and voila - All agro is yours! All you need to do is start actually doing your job instead of playing the *God's game*.
I swear, some people need to get off their high horse and chill sometimes.

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...are you asking me to go back 5 years ago to find the name of the people who wouldn't let me tank?
What gods game? Im a tank, not a healer, the healer is the one that plays God XDD

I am perfectly chill. If they wanna take my job, I let them. Im not the one making a big deal. Just let me tank. If you want to tank, ill let you
100% maximum chill. No horse here

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I know what my job is as a tank, which is why I personally have an issue with DPS trying to tank for me.

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Which is to grab and hold aggro, not necessarily get it first.
It's as if a healer got pissy at a DNC for using Curing Waltz because its "their job to heal".

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Im the Tank, let me do my job and tank. Its that simple. What is the point of me being a tank if a dps is gonna do it for me?

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Then do your job as a tank and grab the aggro. You know damn well a DPS can't create more threat than you if you're not griefing. NO ONE in a dungeon can stop you from doing your job as a tank EXCEPT YOURSELF because no one else has enmity multiplying tools.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

And Its just as petty to say Im being to slow, and call me a bad tank or a Griefer for not moving at the speed and level that the DPS wants me to.

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It's not petty it's the truth. You're refusing to do your job over a petty grievance and letting people die over your misconception that you're the one who should get aggro first, that is textbook definition of griefing in video games.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Like I said a few times..I know what my job is as a Tank.

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Do you? Because you refuse to do it.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Just because Im max level, doesnt mean I have the same skill ceiling or are as fast as others.

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Yeah man turning your stance on, spamming AOEs and using sprint correctly is so difficult.
But if you're admitting that you might not be as efficient as others, do you think they should be punished for managing their sprint and positioning themselves better than you do? lol

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

...are you asking me to go back 5 years ago to find the name of the people who wouldn't let me tank?
What gods game? Im a tank, not a healer, the healer is the one that plays God XDD

I am perfectly chill. If they wanna take my job, I let them. Im not the one making a big deal. Just let me tank. If you want to tank, ill let you
100% maximum chill. No horse here

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You completely ignored my question of who's actually not letting you tank.
I guess the actual answer to that is - you yourself. By refusing to tank.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

This ain't about the aggro. Arm's Length applies a slow. If you're gonna run ahead of the tank and make their job slightly harder, might as well reciprocate by making all the mobs hit half as much for 10 seconds.

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The tank has a button called sprint. Also, the tank's arms length being on cd has no impact on the dps pulling and taking aggro.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

Do you, though? It is the responsibility of every player, regardless of role, to continuously contribute towards the successful completion of the duty. In almost every duty in the game this is achieved by slaying enemies. A tank contributes by 1) reducing enemy HP, and 2) mitigating incoming damage to allow the healer more time to reduce enemy HP.

Could you please explain how deliberately murdering your allies and refusing to attack the enemies is doing your job? There's a case to be made that by facilitating a wipe you are restoring enemy HP and undoing progress made by the party.

There are plenty of games with communities that encourage ego-centric toxicity, but this isn't one of them. Your attitude is an unwelcome hinderance. Get better or get out.

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If I didnt, I wouldn't play tank and I wouldn't have them at Max Level.
How am I murdering my allies? Does FFXIV have Friendly fire that Im unaware of? Or is this just a silly question to further demonize me for saying "If Im a Tank, let me Tank?"
I dont play other MMOs, I play FFXIV, Im not hindering anybody, I simply dont like people who tank for me while Im playing Tank. Its more toxic to take my job and call me a bad tank, then get mad when I literally let you do what your trying to do.

Ill continue to Play FFXIV and have fun as Ive had for the past 3 expansions.
Sorry, thats not gonna change over this topic.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

All dem chips and bags yoh

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-Running ahead and pulling all the mobs is not the same thing as a DNC using their cure move. If a healer wants to get upset about it, thats their problem.
-They can actually, by running ahead of the tank and doing everything themselves.
-Ok, then Ill stop tanking...just like I did. If its the truth, then let it be truth.
-Not that anybody is gonna care, but let me say that these happened years ago back in HW when I was learning and tanking was a LITTLE harder
-Refer to the previous point. Because yeah tanking has become THAT easy now lol. Plus Im better at it now then I was in HW

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

You completely ignored my question of who's actually not letting you tank.

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The DPS
I guess that was overlooked the past few people I was talking to, lol

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If I didnt, I wouldn't play tank and I wouldn't have them at Max Level.

-Ok, then Ill stop tanking...just like I did. If its the truth, then let it be truth.
-Not that anybody is gonna care, but let me say that these happened years ago back in HW when I was learning and tanking was a LITTLE harder

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If you know the difference between old tanking and current tanking, you should have 0 problems with someone else pulling mobs because for a tank it's 0 effort to take the aggro back.
I don't see how DPS is taking your tanking job. Unless it hurts your ego/feelings seeing that someone dared running in front of you in a dungeon.

Ill guess Ill just Echo it in an independent post...even though I know exactly how the internet works and it will likely be ignored, or people will just say Im making excuses and creating a scapegoat. So what, whatever, but Ill make it known.

My attitude about this was way back in HW (Heavensward) Back when I was newer at the game. FFXIV is my 1st and only MMO, so many concepts are still to this day lost on me, because I simply dont know or understand them.
Now, yes to any naysayers who will believe the opposite, I know what my role is as a tank. My issue is that I was trying to learn and get better at it at the time, but as Im learning, people would decide Im to slow and suck, so they would run ahead and just take my job from me, and harass me about it. (but hey, Im the toxic one right?) Being a novice, and with how gaining aggro was a little slower, I wasnt good. Many people sweat bullets over the responsibilities of the role, and as it happened a few times, yes I became petty and jaded about it. So I got that attitude...you want to tank -takes off stance- go for it.
I became so done with fighting about it, and trying to explain I was new and learning. I met a good amount of Toxic people starting out.

Now, fast foreword, I run into it nearly...never. Im a better tank now, aggro generation is childs play. And amusingly, outside of Alliance Raids, nobody runs ahead of the Tank anymore. At least not the groups Ive been in.

So just to make it known to people coming at me, this attitude is from Years ago. None of this has happened in the past 4 years or so

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

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I am sorry to hear that you had to go through such in game experiences. People in this game not so all nice and fluffy sometimes, it's understandable.
Still, it would recommend you letting go of the past and move on. Things like that just happen sometimes and you should never take close to heart what random people on the internet tell you if you know, you're trying your best. Just ignore them and keep doing your best. With time and experience you'll get the hang of it. Just no need to let down those who didn't deserve it. Take a different look at others pulling mobs for you, there's nothing wrong with it, run will just go faster that way.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

So just to make it known to people coming at me, this attitude is from Years ago.

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Is it your attitude from years ago? Because it's impossible to tell from your original post:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Im the opposite.
If Im suppose to be the tank, but the DPS decides they wanna be tank...Im taking off my stance and gonna let them have at it.
If they die...thats what happens when you decide your gonna overstep and take my job XD

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So if all this is not something you currently believe why did you write it?
And how do you feel nowadays?

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Still, it would recommend you letting go of the past and move on. Things like that just happen sometimes and you should never take close to heart what random people on the internet tell you if you know, you're trying your best. Just ignore them and keep doing your best. With time and experience you'll get the hang of it. Just no need to let down those who didn't deserve it. Take a different look at others pulling mobs for you, there's nothing wrong with it, run will just go faster that way.

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If it wasn't 100% Crystal Clear, I dont have this issue or Attitude anymore. This was projection from my days of Tanking in HW. None of this has happened in SB or ShB, and hopefully wont happen in EW.
Thank You for the kind words of encouragement

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

It's not petty it's the truth. You're refusing to do your job over a petty grievance and letting people die over your misconception that you're the one who should get aggro first, that is textbook definition of griefing in video games.

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I mean, it IS the norm to let the tank grab aggro first. Even so that's no reason to let your party members die because someone was impatient, as annoying as it may be. That is indeed petty.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Is it your attitude from years ago? Because it's impossible to tell from your original post:

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I know, that was the point of the Independent Post.
I stand by that post, because its how I felt back when I was tanking and dealing with DPS pulling MOBs in HW. It was relevant to the topic.
The new Independent post is to squash this belief that I still run around the game "Being a bad and toxic tank whos ego is bruised and on their high-horse"
I didnt mention this was HW experience beforehand, I just pushed the narrative how I felt about it.

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

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Ideally people would let the tank pull but some people are in such a hurry that even if the tank is doing big pulls they have to clear the dungeon 2 seconds faster by going ahead and pulling for the tank. A lot of people have a mentality of not just big pulls but 'speedrun this every second counts' for some reason.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

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I assume it's either from other MMOs or from previous expacs, I only really played during ShB so I wouldn't know. It's in the same line of thinking as "healers heal". It's not efficient to wait for a sluggish tank like it's not efficient for a healer to stand around waiting for the tank to drop to 90% to use Cure.

Tanks have a lot of defensive and using them doesn't sacrifice DPS, while bringing 3 DPS and 1 healer is definitely possible and probably faster (I do it every once in a while with premades) but people need to know their job well and use their mitigation, especially the healer, and that's just rare and doing it in DF will lead to wipes or slower runs nearly every time.

ATM aggro management just doesn't exist, hit your AOE once or twice and the mobs will be on the tank. If people are running ahead of the tank and start to DPS mobs sooner, it's gonna be just that: damage that starts coming out sooner, and therefore pack that will die sooner, it won't make the tank's job any harder, nor the healer's as long as they know that healing DPS during pulls who don't have aggro anymore is pointless.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

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In most dungeons, trash mobs don't do nearly enough damage to seriously endanger someone unless they tank for a long time without any healing. Any dps or healer can easily take a couple of hits. The tank grabbing aggro first is simply the most comfortable route because the sturdiest one takes every hit but some MMOs even relied on someone else pulling, so it's not a rule set in stone.
Even if someone isn't pulling ahead, it can easily happen that a dps grabs aggro by either dpsing on the run of having strong initial hits like Standard from DNC.
And if healers or dps are at least halfway sensible about it (tailing the tank, using selfheal/ Arm's Length's) there is no downside to a healer or dps pulling. The only thing that matters is that they always bring any mobs they have to the tank so he can easily catch them with aoe combos.
It's only problematic when they start running away because now the healer needs to periodically divide their attention and heals, making everything take longer.

I don't mind one bit if a dps or healer triggers the next mob group or even pulls them as long as they stick to the "bring it to the tank" rule. I can voke a single mob off someone but if they have an entire pack, it's in their best interest to stay/ come close to me so I can grab them all right away. If they are faster than me for whatever reason and stay close to me, I don't mind if someone else pulls. I get them back within 1-2 GCDs, no harm done.
They can pull ahead if they want or go wild with dps on the run, I don't mind. As long as they stay close to me and don't grief the healer by running away and requiring babysitting, it's all fine.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

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Enemy mob attacks, especially crits, can interrupt spellcasting. I think that's based on how much you lose on the attack. 15-20% of your max HP on a single strike/action can interrupt casting.
Also, telegraphs can force you to move while having the other mobs stuck on you, otherwise you risk getting interrupted by a unlucky crit.
And then there are status effects. Rare as they are, stun and paralyze can ruin your day.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If I didnt, I wouldn't play tank and I wouldn't have them at Max Level.
How am I murdering my allies? Does FFXIV have Friendly fire that Im unaware of? Or is this just a silly question to further demonize me for saying "If Im a Tank, let me Tank?"

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If you really wanna grasp that straw so hard, I'll grasp it too. If I'm a dps, let me dps. I can't dps if you won't pull.

If I miss a foul tick because you had to stop, I am probably just going to foul. I am a dps, and I am doing dps. You are a sponge, you should sponge.

And yes I did read your heavensward post. Guess who also leveled all 3 tanks that expac, with no prior tanking experience? Though, weird I never ran into this issue, as I just either pulled more, or if people pulled for me, I'd just rip it off of them, pretty easily still. Aggro was harder to get, but it wasn't impossible, and being in tank stance like you should have been still, you'd generate enough threat easily with any of the 3 aoe buttons since those had an extra enmity multiplier on it.

Oh, and for the "How am I murdering my allies" part, you're gonna tell me that you're that dense to not put two and two together, that you standing there doing nothing to take threat means people are going to take damage that you could easily be preventing and/or sponging?

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Originally Posted by Catwho

This ain't about the aggro. Arm's Length applies a slow. If you're gonna run ahead of the tank and make their job slightly harder

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You mean easier right?
Tank main here btw.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

And yes I did read your heavensward post.

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Then...why are you trying to continue this discussion?
This was me back in HW and I just projected something that is long since gone.
I didnt make it clear from the beginning this isn't an issue now since Im both a better tank since then, and that Tanking as a whole is now 1000x easier.
So now that its established, this discussion should be over. Only reason to continue it is if you dont believe me and you just wanna keep fighting about it.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

It simply wouldn't happen if the Healer didnt run ahead and pull the other mobs for me.
If they are just doing their job and healing, then its not their fault if they pull aggro as we get to the next Mob. Its one thing if they generated aggro from healing, its another thing to literally run ahead and attack to pull the other groups.

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Sorry man I still do not get it if the healer runs ahead and pulls extra mobs and people are already using their AoE you as a tank you would have to physically stop using your AoE combo and maybe even drop aggro to teach said healer a lesson. At that point you are actively screwing over the dps for not having the same foresight to stop attacking or to single target the mobs you are
Fighting. So at that point in this theoretical situation if the healer dies and the dps die because all they were doing was using AoE. You might still be alive due to lack of aggro on the other mobs but now your party is dead because you wanted to teach someone a lesson. Yet that lesson also caused two others who were only guilty of using AoE.

Does that really seem fair?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

because its how I felt back when I was tanking and dealing with DPS pulling MOBs in HW. It was relevant to the topic.

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I don't follow. Maybe I just don't understand this thread.
How are 3.x experiences and philosophies you no longer live by more topically relevant than your 5.x ones?

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Enemy mob attacks, especially crits, can interrupt spellcasting.

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Really? I thought enemies weren't able to crit as of this expac.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Really? I thought enemies weren't able to crit as of this expac.

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Don't know about crits but at least last night in World of Darkness, on my BLM, my cast was interrupted by the eyeball add that spawn in the eyeball boss fight. Yeah the two tanks who were supposed to tank them were doing their super dps on the boss. Oh and the flower thingy add on the doggo fight as well. And yeah again the tanks were doing their super DPS on the doggo...wtf was wrong with those tanks seriously.

So crit or not, mob damage can still interrupt player cast.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I don't follow. Maybe I just don't understand this thread.
How are 3.x experiences and philosophies you no longer live by more topically relevant than your 5.x ones?

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They arn't, I just went off on a tangent, and I was replying to somebody else. And I did so without mentioning beforehand that everything I was saying was when I was newer back in HW. Because I failed to mention that, I gave people the idea that I tank today with the same issues and mentality.
Doesn't help that I kept feeding it like I was back in HW. Guess it was therapeutic in a weird way to get my frustrations out XD

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Originally Posted by Ftail

I agree with you and the people here it's toxic behavior from the tank to let a DPS die because they pulled mobs. At the same time, it's not a reportable offense if the tank keeps his mouth shut while doing it. How would the GM discern a tank letting someone die from spite from tanks letting someone die from incompetency if there are no chat logs to show he was being malicious.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

If GMs have access to the battle log, they could possibly see the tank stopping his use of AOE, dropping his stance, and such.

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Maybe the tank accidently dragged and dropped his AOE spell off his bar or switched his bar. Maybe dropping his stance was a misclick. The fact a GM has to search for an entire dungeons battle logs and deduce what happened is absolutely overwhelming. The reason why GM's don't tell people the results and that they are only looking into it is to make players feel satisfied it's getting GM attention. There's a reason vote kicking and leaving a dungeon is an option. GM's are not omnipotent and going to be able deduce small things like a tank purposely letting a DPS die from not hitting his AOE combo based off of combat logs. It's just not realistic, when they are probably understaffed and underpaid and need to get through tons of more reports so they are going to only look for obvious indicators.

In a perfect world those tanks would be punished, I honestly wish they were, I just don't see how that's at all a realistic expectation.

I don’t pull but does arms length do more than knock back resist? Is it worth using in dungeon runs (if not pulling?)

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I don’t pull but does arms length do more than knock back resist? Is it worth using in dungeon runs (if not pulling?)

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[Arm's Length] has an additional effect which grants you a barrier that inflicts slow (not heavy) debuff at whatever's hitting you under its duration. The only time I've seen and had a firsthand experience using it other than to nullify knockback as a non-tank is when the tank died which suddenly puts me on the top of aggro list. It's usually long enough to buy them time to res, wait the res animation while also keeping me alive in the place of tank temporarily.

It's still quite rare though.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

[Arm's Length] has an additional effect which grants you a barrier that inflicts slow (not heavy) debuff at whatever's hitting you under its duration. The only time I've seen and had a firsthand experience using it other than to nullify knockback as a non-tank is when the tank died which suddenly puts me on the top of aggro list. It's usually long enough to buy them time to res, wait the res animation while also keeping me alive in the place of tank temporarily.

It's still quite rare though.

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Oh great thank you. Yes I tend to sit at top aggro as a MCH and occasionally have to kite a boss so I’ll pop it if the tank dies. Never realised it had this use :).