The 3-Strikes Policy - Is it really a good thing?

One strike should be removed for every three years of good behavior, that seems fair.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

You mean like on WoW where that's a thing people have mentioned? Though, I find it strange I never had so much as a warning over there with Blizzard, and I'd argue I've said worse on Blizzard's systems.

Speaking of saying worse things, There was a small group of players repeatedly harassing me and anyone they found out I was friends with, repeatedly going for months, while the GM's did nothing to stop it (And, as context, this was public slander, accusations of things like being a r*****, etc, pretty arguably worse than the F word).

Square already proved to me last year with that they don't care about hostility or toxicity or drama or any of that, they only care if you said a swear word. It's somewhat funny, because when I did get my 3 day for swearing, the GM confirmed to me when I gave him (with his permission) copy pasted examples from those times and he admitted himself they should be punishable offenses, yet months of it happened without so much as a warning, far as I could tell by their actions. It only stopped because I jumped ship to WoW to stop getting harassed for a while.

They can certainly, 100%, do better.

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why do anything for swearing tho? isnt there a profanity filter? there is literally swearing in the games dialogue, suggestive themes at times, so its not 100% child friendly so why with those things in mind would they ban or do any sort of punishment for swearing?

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Originally Posted by Kuya420

why do anything for swearing tho? isnt there a profanity filter? there is literally swearing in the games dialogue, suggestive themes at times, so its not 100% child friendly so why with those things in mind would they ban or do any sort of punishment for swearing?

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This is what I've been saying... enforcement is arbitrary.

I think it's crazy that a game rated for teens doesn't have a strike removal policy. There are very few people who can claim that they never did or said anything stupid when they were a teenager, and then later cringe about those things as they got older. There are players in the game right now who have strikes on their accounts over stupid stuff they did years ago but would never even dream of doing now.

I really really really hate the idea that something dumb you did years ago when you were a different person can still negatively affect you today even after you learned and matured from it.

Strikes should be removed after a period of good behaviour. The more severe the offense, the longer it takes to be removed. Although some stuff should stay on your account such as cheating or severely inappropriate behavior such as stalking because these are particularly strong offenses. Can't be compared with someone dropping a F bomb.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I think it's crazy that a game rated for teens doesn't have a strike removal policy. There are very few people who can claim that they never did or said anything stupid when they were a teenager, and then later cringe about those things as they got older. There are players in the game right now who have strikes on their accounts over stupid stuff they did years ago but would never even dream of doing now.

I really really really hate the idea that something dumb you did years ago when you were a different person can still negatively affect you today even after you learned and matured from it.

Strikes should be removed after a period of good behaviour. The more severe the offense, the longer it takes to be removed. Although some stuff should stay on your account such as cheating or severely inappropriate behavior such as stalking because these are particularly strong offenses. Can't be compared with someone dropping a F bomb.

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welcome to real life these days, thats how cancel culture has been working as of late, digging back years into ppls posts hoping to find something that will "prove" they deserve to be canceled just because they dislike them personally, its sad really

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Originally Posted by Kuya420

welcome to real life these days, thats how cancel culture has been working as of late, digging back years into ppls posts hoping to find something that will "prove" they deserve to be canceled just because they dislike them personally, its sad really

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Cancel culture is why I had to unsubscribe from many youtubers and unfollow a lot of twitter accounts. I got tired of the whole "you said this awful thing once and even though for the past ten years you have been nothing but a good influence it means nothing because of that one bad thing". These people aren't trying to make the world a better place, they're trying to make themselves feel good by destroying someone else. It's revolting behaviour.

Thing is no matter how much they scream well tos says it.. Then you go read it and NO IT DOESNT say what was done is against it..

And if you deny this your naive they throw in this bs lines that then can used to honestly ban/warn for no reason..
Lines that are really open ended and have no real way to follow then groups of ppl who are uptight use that bs for no reason on a person who isnt doing a,damn thing wrong.
So for one this loop hole bs needs to be removed from tos

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Originally Posted by Kuya420

why do anything for swearing tho? isnt there a profanity filter? there is literally swearing in the games dialogue, suggestive themes at times, so its not 100% child friendly so why with those things in mind would they ban or do any sort of punishment for swearing?

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The argument is the use of it.

I swore at somebody, not swore in general, which I assume was the argument for me (Still strange you can be very direct with a certain R word but here we are I guess.)

Here we go again with someone saying "use the profanity filter" to justify their wrongdoing. Well that was designed so you didn't accidentally comes across it in some passing conversation like a linkshell or shout.

But cursing to someone is prohibited in this game, second most fail to realize the profanity filter is just a client setting, what you wrote is logged on the servers for a GM to see unfiltered. You can have a strike if you'd like, keep it up.

I think that it's a matter of nuance, really.

There's a huge difference between targeted profanity and profanity that isn't aimed at anybody in particular.

There's also cultural elements at play, different backgrounds and language barriers. Misunderstandings happen.

I've said this before but some of the kindest people I've ever met swore like sailors. In some cases, they pretty much were sailors due to living next to the sea.

Interestingly enough, some of the worst people I've ever met were always very keen to show off how 'virtuous' and 'tolerant' they supposedly were. Yet the things they said in private, when the 'cameras' weren't running and zero accountability existed? Oh, boy...

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Edit: another note is that the swearing/profanity clause needs to be removed from the rules outright; as a lot of strikes come from swearing, when some of the NPCs are more foul mouthed than the average player. The filter is kinda worthless and doesn't even work for NPC or spoken dialogue, only player interactions.

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This. Why's an NPC get to call me a Hyuran bee-ahtch, but I can't call someone or something dumb. :NotLikeThis:

Or at the very least, clarification on what they consider "profanity" in a game that's rated "teen" with "language" listed as one of the items that makes it so. Because it's obvious some is acceptable. And heck, what my grandmother's generation considered profane and what my generation consider profane don't match up.

So you can get suspended for swearing

There's no reason you should get in trouble for anything unless it's cheating or harassment especially if you're putting monthly money into it

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Or at the very least, clarification on what they consider "profanity" in a game that's rated "teen" with "language" listed as one of the items that makes it so. Because it's obvious some is acceptable. And heck, what my grandmother's generation considered profane and what my generation consider profane don't match up.

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But it's not only your generation that plays the game, is it? The rules need to encompass everyone, young and old, with or without mental health issues. You can attempt that if you like with detailed rules and let me know when (a) you give up, or (b) you spend all your time revising and revising the rules because you didn't include everyone.

And of course everything is context. If an NPC calls me a Hyuran whatever, I am in my character's head at the point. It may sting a little but not as much as a player in my group calling me names because I failed an easy mechanic. As I said in my earlier post, treat people with dignity and kindness. There are different cultures and people being shocked that other cultures consider things offensive means they need to adapt to more relaxed and kind way of thinking and acting and consider what they are doing. That's the reason the rules are so broad, to cover everyone.

It's just weird that they wouldn't block profanity altogether if they didn't like it that much.
why make it something you can do if you don't want people doing it

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Originally Posted by BlissNCarnage

It's just weird that they wouldn't block profanity altogether if they didn't like it that much.
why make it something you can do if you don't want people doing it

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There is no way to completely block profanity. People have always worked around profanity filters and keeping profanity filters up-to-date is a full time job. Again remember that people want content not profanity filters with dubious results.

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Originally Posted by BlissNCarnage

It's just weird that they wouldn't block profanity altogether if they didn't like it that much.
why make it something you can do if you don't want people doing it

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Filters never stopped anyone really, plus you never really needed to use profanities if you truly wanted to attack someone, which is why you cant simply ban only words and need to be flexible based on the situation.

What SE seems to actually want to fix is how normalized and accepted slurs, insults, attacks, hateful speech is for many western gamers whenever they mean it or use slurs as a "joke/banter/etc", you see that in almost all other popular online games yet not in FF14, and simply because of that I think SE arent wrong to actually care about the quality of the community and ingame chats and thus take draconian measures.

Because that kind of behavior is accepted and normalized in most other games it doesnt mean it should be tolerated and let spread, the fact that they take action and try to fix that kind of behavior is a huge positive in my eyes because I dont think i ve seen a game company of a relatively popular online game ever try to tackle this issue outside of meaningless and fake platitudes.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Filters never stopped anyone really, plus you never really needed to use profanities if you truly wanted to attack someone, which is why you cant simply ban only words and need to be flexible based on the situation.

What SE seems to actually want to fix is how normalized and accepted slurs, insults, attacks, hateful speech is for many western gamers whenever they mean it or use slurs as a "joke/banter/etc", you see that in almost all other popular online games yet not in FF14, and simply because of that I think SE arent wrong to actually care about the quality of the community and ingame chats and thus take draconian measures.

Because that kind of behavior is accepted and normalized in most other games it doesnt mean it should be tolerated and let spread, the fact that they take action and try to fix that kind of behavior is a huge positive in my eyes because I dont think i ve seen a game company of a relatively popular online game ever try to tackle this issue outside of meaningless and fake platitudes.

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Just love the way you put it in perspective, in a succinct and yet very clear manner. This normalisation is what SE is trying to avoid and why I think what they do is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by MagicAura

But it's not only your generation that plays the game, is it? The rules need to encompass everyone, young and old, with or without mental health issues. You can attempt that if you like with detailed rules and let me know when (a) you give up, or (b) you spend all your time revising and revising the rules because you didn't include everyone.

And of course everything is context. If an NPC calls me a Hyuran whatever, I am in my character's head at the point. It may sting a little but not as much as a player in my group calling me names because I failed an easy mechanic. As I said in my earlier post, treat people with dignity and kindness. There are different cultures and people being shocked that other cultures consider things offensive means they need to adapt to more relaxed and kind way of thinking and acting and consider what they are doing. That's the reason the rules are so broad, to cover everyone.

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That's my point and I am aware people play young and old, one of the people in my circle is a woman of her 70's...that said she's not one to be offended what comes out of me.

What I consider offensive is different to the next person. Hence I think some clarification or clearer information on what they act on could be helpful.

There are of course things that are obvious and take common sense, like, don't go around throwing racial slurs.

But I think there are things that aren't obvious. And there are things that are clearly acceptable in the game's script, so is it profanity that's banned outright? Or is it profane in the context of what is acceptable in a "Teen: language" game?

You can receive a warning for swearing?

Huh. I’ve sworn many times for messing up in a dungeon and I’ve never received a single strike.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

That's my point and I am aware people play young and old, one of the people in my circle is a woman of her 70's...that said she's not one to be offended what comes out of me.

What I consider offensive is different to the next person. Hence I think some clarification or clearer information on what they act on could be helpful.

There are of course things that are obvious and take common sense, like, don't go around throwing racial slurs.

But I think there are things that aren't obvious. And there are things that are clearly acceptable in the game's script, so is it profanity that's banned outright? Or is it profane in the context of what is acceptable in a "Teen: language" game?

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I think it's much simpler than that. People may have in their circle a certain tolerance for slurs and even swearing because between their friends or in their community it's not considered offensive. Assuming the rest of the world is the same, however, is wrong, especially given that people who use them, know it's swearing that is used in a different manner (or perhaps it's offensive depending on context).

For me the rule is very simple:

- Don't use slurs and swearing in public channels when other people may be offended by it.
- Don't use slurs and swearing in party/alliance.

That's all there is. Yes, someone may do it because of habit, but perhaps when playing the game it's good to examine one's habits and adapt one's language. All it takes is to be mindful of what one says. It's practice, nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Lium

You can receive a warning for swearing?

Huh. I’ve sworn many times for messing up in a dungeon and I’ve never received a single strike.

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Context is important Lium. For example I'd have told you that people make mistakes and you are too hard on yourself, but I would never have reported you for that. But can you guarantee that one day you won't come across a report-happy person who likes to see people suffer? You always take a chance by doing that in DF.

I am with the three strike policy , so no , leave it as is.

I just read through the prohibitions list and they can basically ban you for just about anything including excessive use of emojis which is ridiculous

It's also super vague and I do recommend reading it if you're a new player

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Originally Posted by BlissNCarnage

I just read through the prohibitions list and they can basically ban you for just about anything including excessive use of emojis which is ridiculous

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To be fair the majority of people who use emojis don't keep it out of the chatbox, so it's mostly just excessively spamming that they're on about, they're just pretty specific about certain types.

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Originally Posted by MagicAura

Context is important Lium. For example I'd have told you that people make mistakes and you are too hard on yourself, but I would never have reported you for that. But can you guarantee that one day you won't come across a report-happy person who likes to see people suffer? You always take a chance by doing that in DF.

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I guess so. I just feel like, as with most things on the forums, this is being overblown.

That’s not to say that GM mistakes don’t happen. Someone posted a screenshot of a GM making an error that could’ve been very costly to that player. But thankfully the GM corrected their error and the player was set free.

But the rules are the rules, and again, just keeping it real, Americans don’t like rules. It always comes down to a “Muh freedom!!!” thing. Play any video game in the West and you’ll see we like talking trash and flaming and trolling others.

Anyone who has played WoW can tell you what happens when there’s little to no moderation. Chat is filled with non-stop political talk, racial slurs and lewd behavior. Which is like every other multiplayer video game in the US.

I mean, even the Novice Network here can be spicy sometimes. And by the way? If you ever want to see what an unmoderated FFXIV community would look like, head on over to Discord. But you had BETTER get ready. Because damn.

There is a reason this is apparently not an issue in Japan. No community is perfect and they have their own issues. But they are not going to call you a homophobic slur and start trashing you because you made a mistake or are not playing the way they think you should be playing. And that is exactly what happens in the US.

FFXIV has one of the best communities out there and I sincerely hope it stays that way.

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Originally Posted by Lium

I guess so. I just feel like, as with most things on the forums, this is being overblown.

That’s not to say that GM mistakes don’t happen. Someone posted a screenshot of a GM making an error that could’ve been very costly to that player. But thankfully the GM corrected their error and the player was set free.

But the rules are the rules, and again, just keeping it real, Americans don’t like rules. It always comes down to a “Muh freedom!!!” thing. Play any video game in the West and you’ll see we like talking trash and flaming and trolling others.

Anyone who has played WoW can tell you what happens when there’s little to no moderation. Chat is filled with non-stop political talk, racial slurs and lewd behavior. Which is like every other multiplayer video game in the US.

I mean, even the Novice Network here can be spicy sometimes. And by the way? If you ever want to see what an unmoderated FFXIV community would look like, head on over to Discord. But you had BETTER get ready. Because damn.

There is a reason this is apparently not an issue in Japan. No community is perfect and they have their own issues. But they are not going to call you a homophobic slur and start trashing you because you made a mistake or are not playing the way they think you should be playing. And that is exactly what happens in the US.

FFXIV has one of the best communities out there and I sincerely hope it stays that way.

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I love the FFXIV community and it's one of the big reasons I play here (albeit I do play on European servers so I'm not sure how I'd fare on NA servers--mind you I have friends from NA that actually play in EU because of similar reasons you mentioned).

I'm learning how to tank and heal on this character and there is one thing I've noticed. People are very reserved initially and especially after mistakes. Sometimes telling people after a wipe "it doesn't really matter, we're here to have fun, we'll get it next time" is all it takes to get people relaxed and happy about what they are doing. I've talked about mechanics, rotations, asked questions, thanked people for any tips they offered, apologised for my messes without trying to blame anyone, and in general most regard this conduct as a surprise. One person who used to play WoW actually mentioned that.

People are here to unwind and relax and have fun. In my view a DF run that takes 45 minutes is as good as one that takes 10 minutes if the people enjoyed it because everybody learns in different ways and the only way to accommodate that is with patience and kindness. I consider a run successful if people at the end are happy. Even better if at the end I have learned something new.

In a way, yes, it is good. Why? It prevents people from getting out of line. It doesn't matter if you had a strike or two, years ago. SE takes these things a little serious which is good. Would you rather them take the strikes away so these individuals can act out of line again and accumulate another 2 strikes off the bat? It's good to leave it as it is so they don't act out of line. I don't care if people make "Mistakes" or had a bad day. Those who do have strikes are "Scared" to talk openly probably because they can't say anything at all without sounding like a donkey. Just don't be rude at all and keep things simple.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

In a way, yes, it is good. Why? It prevents people from getting out of line. It doesn't matter if you had a strike or two, years ago. SE takes these things a little serious which is good. Would you rather them take the strikes away so these individuals can act out of line again and accumulate another 2 strikes off the bat? It's good to leave it as it is so they don't act out of line. I don't care if people make "Mistakes" or had a bad day. Those who do have strikes are "Scared" to talk openly probably because they can't say anything at all without sounding like a donkey. Just don't be rude at all and keep things simple.

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Apparently they don't take it that seriously since they seem more focused on people using bad words than actual harassment

I know people who are banned from this very forum because of the occasional swear slip. In fact, someone in particular had a four year gap between infractions yet that warranted a permanent ban. In both cases, neither swear was directed at anyone. They said Orbonne wasn't quite the cluster-you can fill in the rest as Weeping City. Bit ironic considering this forum doesn't actually censor certain words like practically every other forum but c'est la vie.

In any case, just another example of why a three strike system with zero forgiveness is a dated concept.

It's getting as bad as Facebook. Soon, someone is going to get banned for calling someone a silly goose.

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Originally Posted by Velnora

It's getting as bad as Facebook. Soon, someone is going to get banned for calling someone a silly goose.

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Depending on the context, how they phrase the report, and the GM I could see that happening.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

So, for those who want a premise, read this reddit thread. No, it's not a link to something dumb - but it heavily ties into the big fiasco regarding Party Finder usage and the unreasonable account suspensions.

The thread itself already gives a few points as to why Final Fantasy XIV's policies need some reform, as the current system is built in a way that pushes many people who have made mistakes and gotten account strikes in the past into reclusion.

We're talking like ALLLLLL the way back in 2.X, or even 3.X, when FFXIV was on the rise as an MMO giant. Why can't these strikes be forgiven? As stated from the reddit thread, it has to do with their policies in regards to Account Strikes. Considering you are unable to remove an account strike regardless of your own reasoning, it's basically a zero-tolerance system that is unforgiving.

Humans make mistakes - everyone here knows this to some extent. Yet, why can they not forgive after a set amount of time? Does it have to do with their culture on the developers' side of the world? Does it have to do with how they want to stand out? I don't know the reason, but with how SE is heavy handed in their policy, it forces the thought that if they screw up again for some benign reason or another they basically can't play the game anymore.

I'm looking to open this thread for discussion about this topic because aside from reddit, I want to see what people on the Forums think in regards to how things are.

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U..um!! *⁂((✪⥎✪))⁂* I don't think you'll be banned...(.づ σ▿σ)づ. if you don't erp!! ( ๑ÒωÓ๑ )

Well, Square Enix is a Japanese company which comes from a society where people are expected to behave and treat warnings seriously, unlike certain cultures where warnings are generally ignored because they mean nothing.

In Japan, a warning probably is like an ultimatum: if you do it again, there will be action.

And so when you get three warnings, the action follows.

I think even given a 10 year span, if a person repeats the same mistake of not respecting the rules 10 years later, doesn't that mean the person is still the same person, and not actually a completely different person? He could be a loving father now, but still swears like a ganster and that still offends people. So to the other players around him, he is still the same unpleasant bad-mouther.

The 3-strike policy doesn't seem that bad.

What should be done, however, is to make sure that warnings aren't given nilly-willy. That all strikes are actual infractions. Instead of focusing on the merits of the policy, I think we should be focusing on the execution.

I do concede that permabans are like capital punishment in a way, but then the discussion should be whether one should have permabans, not whether the 3-strike is a good policy.

I honestly have no idea how a 3 strikes policy can really be that big a problem. I've been playing either 14 or 11 for over 15 years and only had 1 interaction with a GM, that was me reporting a player using 5 bots to lock out a heavily sought after mob in 11 and it was about 13 years ago.
If you're really worried about getting a 3rd strike maybe consider a change of attitude, or stop cheating. I have seen the 18+ pf thing but you're asking for trouble there, the game is rated significantly lower than 18+ and its the developers and publishers who will be held responsible if some parent finds little timmy being exploited by a pedo. I know its mostly innocent but there is no age check for the game.

Reading this thread, it seems to me that a lot of you people really hunger to see punishment.

When I see the justifications people give, it's even more obvious. "People who have done bad things are bad, and bad people do not deserve understanding." It's a shallow argument.

It's an argument for people who are naive enough to believe that there ARE "bad" people and "good" people. For people who want things easy. These things do not exist. Things are *not* that simple.

Mr. Rogers once said: ""Frankly, there isn't anyone you couldn't learn to love once you've heard their story"

Or, if that's not sacred enough for some of you: "John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

I'm fine with punishment, but punishment *forever*? *Unforgivable punishment* ? There's no logical basis for that. It's far too black and white.

Square Enix's current system has obvious flaws. Time between infractions, the severity of the infraction, and the length of punishment should *all* be taken into account when deciding how to treat their players.

And for those of you who would still rather release the guillotine before hearing the plea, consider that your rush to judgement might be a product of modern Cancel Culture as opposed to true and fair justice. I feel I can say this because I have seen it's influence on myself. And we are not very different.

This is just a PSA. Don't be a ....
Play with every as if you are playing in at school in kindergarten and there will be no problems...

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

This is just a PSA. Don't be a ....
Play with every as if you are playing in at school in kindergarten and there will be no problems...

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I thought this game was rated for teens.