You dont need the story.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Why would it be insulting? I've been told I'm missing out because I don't eat mushrooms, but they are only saying that because they are somehow able to stomach the unfathomably bad flavour and smell combined with the rubbery texture, and don't understand how differently I experience it.

The only reason there is to be upset about that would be because a part of you agrees that you are missing out. It's not polite to tell someone who is dieting that they are missing out on all the treats. They know! Perhaps OP should examine why he gets so offended when people suggest that the story he chose to skip isn't boring.

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Yes being pitied or snubbed for choices that affect no one but myself is insulting, and I personally find it extremely irritating when people try to sell me something I have always known I won't enjoy. Or when they act like I just don't know better.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm sorry people, but if someone thinks the story is boring during ARR, the next 100+ hours isn't going to necessarily change that opinion.

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True but that doesn't make a person correct when they say:

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Originally Posted by Skoosh1218

I mean it is a snoozefest. even shadowbringers. I skipped everything. every cutscene.

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If they said something like "I didn't like ARR so I didn't bother with the rest" then fine, that's perfectly valid. But no OP went on to criticise additional story content that they actively avoided experiencing. This is like saying "I only watched a few episodes of season 1 of Scrubs and I didn't like it so I skipped the rest. I also really dislike season 3 even though I didn't watch it.".

Not having interest in the story is fine. Saying something is bad when you have no experience of it is not.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

"The game isn't for you", "go play WoW", etc. are constants if a player chooses to dislike the story, and be public about it.

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Personally I save my "go play WoW" comments for players who appear to be highly offended that the game even has a story. If they skip the story but don't mind that the game has a story then I'm cool with that. If they say the story should be removed or moved to a completely different part of the game then I tell them to go play something else. Stories are one of the core features of every FF rpg. Asking for that core to be removed or to become a very secondary feature is like asking for shooting to not be a major feature for Call of Duty.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

What are you on about? WoW lore is awesome! Like that new cinematic where Baduin shanks the big blue woman right in the chest parts and then Sylvanas is conflicted about it!

Also, is anyone else bothered about the one where Anduin is kept prisoner in that little circle? Did they let him out to use the restroom or like give him a poop bucket??

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Are you making an early April Fool joke?

Imagine playing a Story Driven MMORPG and not playing something that is the main content of the game lul
If I want to play another type of game I'm going to play Wow, if I want something much more focused on PVP I'm going to BDO or even GW2.

I feel the opposite. I think they should make all cutscenes unskippable the first time you see them. And then quiz you at the end of each patch and if you fail the quiz you have to rewatch it all.

That's some yikes right there

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Originally Posted by Skoosh1218

I dislike when people in this game give you so much trouble and say how they feel bad for you for skipping the story or say all these mean things.

I dislike the story because i find it incredibly boring. I mean it is a snoozefest. even shadowbringers. I skipped everything. every cutscene.

I enjoy the gameplay and MMO atmosphere. People need to stop with this "omg youre skipping story in a FF game HOW DARE YOU, im going after you and your family!!"

I enjoy the games gameplay, design, music, zones. every MMO aspect of it. I dont need the story and i am having a blast without falling asleep.

Please let people play how they want and stop insulting them for not liking the story.

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Ok, you don't need the story, but why do you need to tell us?

Do you need reassurance or something?

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Originally Posted by Skoosh1218

I dislike when people in this game give you so much trouble and say how they feel bad for you for skipping the story or say all these mean things.

I dislike the story because i find it incredibly boring. I mean it is a snoozefest. even shadowbringers. I skipped everything. every cutscene.

I enjoy the gameplay and MMO atmosphere. People need to stop with this "omg youre skipping story in a FF game HOW DARE YOU, im going after you and your family!!"

I enjoy the games gameplay, design, music, zones. every MMO aspect of it. I dont need the story and i am having a blast without falling asleep.

Please let people play how they want and stop insulting them for not liking the story.

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Lets go over this point by point:

1. Yes you do need the story. Its how the game progresses, dungeons are locked behind it. This is a story heavy game. This isn't wow. You are a central figure in the story.
2. If you don't like people being "mean" (like grow up) to you for skipping the story then don't skip the story. The story is CENTRAL to you understanding what's going on. thats like skipping 3 seasons of a tv show an expecting them to tell you whos who and whats what.
3. "I dislike the story because I find it incredibly boring. I mean it is a snoozefest. even shadowbringers. I skipped everything. every cutscene." Then you need to go play wow. Buh Bye.
4. Again the story is central to this game.
5. Skipping story is bad. Why? because when the new expansion comes out you have no idea whats going on. You stated you skip the cutscenes and bla bla bla - but your essentially skipping 90% of the game.

At the end of the day THIS IS NOT A GAME FOR YOU if you don't like the story. Its one thing if you made a toon and you used a skip potion, its another if you are a brand new player and you skip everything. The game, through class quests and story - in some cases - legit help you understand your character, your role in the world and the play style of said job/class.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Which I thought interesting since I was clear that the importance to the story wouldn't be changed, just some people could smoothly and logically get into the thick of it easier.

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Once the story is optional or broken up like WoW, they don't have to care about it as much, and that's a slippery slope I'm not willing to risk just because someone can't afford to go through the story (even if they have to skip every cutscene and mash through every dialog box and/or pay to boost the earlier MSQ).

And the prime example of this is WoW. It's such a convoluted mess with how the story quests are so disconnected and certain quests just disappear or no longer require certain other quests on a much more frequent basis than FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Once the story is optional or broken up like WoW, they don't have to care about it as much, and that's a slippery slope I'm not willing to risk just because someone can't afford to go through the story (even if they have to skip every cutscene and mash through every dialog box and/or pay to boost the earlier MSQ).

And the prime example of this is WoW. It's such a convoluted mess with how the story quests are so disconnected and certain quests just disappear or no longer require certain other quests on a much more frequent basis than FFXIV.

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I don't think WoW is a prime example, the story even in the old days was always all over the place (before level up characters (skip potions), or the alternate start). WoW's story was originally less retconned and weirdly anime (and not in the good way), but that's separate from the whole MSQ not important bit of WoW. WoW has always been a bit 'story smory' (OOH FANCY CUTSCENE, and then immediately back into 'story smory').

There is a potential they see story as not important after a bunch of people prove it (that's a big if, but we're assuming under your concern that SE sees that it makes sense not to care), but I doubt SE would do that (I assume they would always keep story as something they put a lot of effort into and bind to game, if some people skip some of that (like via an alternate start), which technically they already can it's just very heavy handed method (potions and or literally skipping scene after scene), then I think "if they want sure, game is still fine for me").

It's fine you think it's a risk but I don't think it's one and I don't think WoW is a good example of that (of an alternate start messing up the story) either since it's delivery has been pretty consistent in terms of "whatever if you do, whatever if you don't- we only partially pay attention to our own story anyways" - there wasn't really a sudden change past the retcon(ss). If anything you might argue they cared a bit more on presentation later with some fancy cutcscenes, even if it's still a bit wildly placed. I also think it's helpful SE sees why you say no, since then they could see "well if we just don't do that (disconnect the importance of story), they'll actually be fine" lol.

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Originally Posted by Raim

I feel the opposite. I think they should make all cutscenes unskippable the first time you see them. And then quiz you at the end of each patch and if you fail the quiz you have to rewatch it all.

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okay calm down satan

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Originally Posted by linayar

Once the story is optional or broken up like WoW, they don't have to care about it as much, and that's a slippery slope I'm not willing to risk just because someone can't afford to go through the story (even if they have to skip every cutscene and mash through every dialog box and/or pay to boost the earlier MSQ).

And the prime example of this is WoW. It's such a convoluted mess with how the story quests are so disconnected and certain quests just disappear or no longer require certain other quests on a much more frequent basis than FFXIV.

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Why would you use wow as an example. the story of that game HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. You are just there to do fetch quests to get shiny pixels.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I don't think WoW is a prime example, the story even in the old days was always all over the place (before level up characters (skip potions), or the alternate start). WoW's story was originally less retconned and weirdly anime (and not in the good way), but that's separate from the whole MSQ not important bit of WoW. WoW has always been a bit 'story smory' (OOH FANCY CUTSCENE, and then immediately back into 'story smory').

There is a potential they see story as not important after a bunch of people prove it (that's a big if, but we're assuming under your concern that SE sees that it makes sense not to care), but I doubt SE would do that (I assume they would always keep story as something they put a lot of effort into and bind to game, if some people skip some of that (like via an alternate start), which technically they already can it's just very heavy handed method (potions and or literally skipping scene after scene), then I think "if they want sure, game is still fine for me").

It's fine you think it's a risk but I don't think it's one and I don't think WoW is a good example of that (of an alternate start messing up the story) either since it's delivery has been pretty consistent in terms of "whatever if you do, whatever if you don't" - there wasn't really a sudden change (if anything you might argue they cared a bit more on presentation later with some fancy cutcscenes, even if it's still a bit wildly placed). I also think it's helpful SE sees why you say no, since then they could see "well if we just don't do that (disconnect the importance of story), they'll actually be fine" lol.

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It's a slippery slope because the idea here is based on feedback. You say they won't, but once they give up this idea that story quests are what drives content, and therefore content will be locked behind them and you have to do certain quests in order, then you open up to more requests by more incoming players who don't care about story to make it even more optional.

The other side to it is that it can introduce more bugs when you allow more variation. And yes, WoW is a prime example because there are several ways that a player can access an expansion's content, for example, and things could just break if you don't happen to have the right criteria and people sometimes cannot help you because their experiences may not be the same as you.

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

Why would you use wow as an example. the story of that game HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. You are just there to do fetch quests to get shiny pixels.

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Yes, that's a fine example to use for my point.

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Originally Posted by linayar

It's a slippery slope because the idea here is based on feedback. You say they won't, but once they give up this idea that story quests are what drives content, and therefore content will be locked behind them and you have to do certain quests in order, then you open up to more requests by more incoming players who don't care about story to make it even more optional.

The other side to it is that it can introduce more bugs when you allow more variation. And yes, WoW is a prime example because there are several ways that a player can access an expansion's content, for example, and things could just break if you don't happen to have the right criteria and people sometimes cannot help you because their experiences may not be the same as you.

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Fair concern in so much that if it happened it would be unfortunate (game story takes a back seat), but of course as said I don't think they would.. but who knows maybe Yoshida steps down and the next person is like "pfft, story.." *delete*. I make the suggestion purely under the constrains that the story wouldn't be done like that.

As for the last bit I still think you're stretching prime example, there are a few bugs in which they could fix (if Blizzard cared to, they still have bugs in some of their starting areas. . . . . . . . . .). To me that doesn't say anything other than maybe Blizzard should have tried harder. You've got bugs, an issue but not unsolvable and something SE has already done some work with (MSQ+ and the potions), and then that Blizzard just doesn't handle story well since.. ever. . Neither are prime examples on why an alternate start would be an issue, imo (the concern of story becoming unimportant is there, but that's not a prime example of wow in relationship to the alternate starts- since it was a thing before it).

Your prime examples to me are prime examples on why Blizzard is an issue lol, they could fix their bugs or they could have made story more important - they just didn't.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Your prime examples to me are prime examples on why Blizzard is an issue lol, they could fix their bugs or they could have made story more important - they just didn't.

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It's my prime example is because WoW is a known entity in this type of game, and one that I am somewhat familiar with as a current player. The point is that WoW displays qualities with regard to story quests that I do not want to see FFXIV emulating, and any diminishment of the mandatory nature of the story (especially MSQ) could lead to that end.

On the bright side, WoW has taken a certain FFXIV feature: designating special icons for main quests. I approve. They should do more to emulate FFXIV in this case.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I was met with if you don't like the story then don't play the game. I had to clarify I do actually like the story (minus some bits here and there that felt like filler, some of it was pruned though) and I just think it's silly to force people through, literally, hundred + hours of story they are probably not interested in if they wanted to get into the tighter gameplay content sooner (those who were wouldn't be taking this optional start, most likely- and even if they did they have MSQ+ to enjoy it later).

If someone was excited for an expansion for content coming out in the expansion then having to do the like 60-90 hours for ARR and then about 30-50 hours for each expansion there after to catch up is more work than most "best RPGs of all time" games, some of those to near or actual 100% completion. To me it was "for those who are not as invested into the story yet and or need a more exciting hook, this could be neat". As it would be optional, and because of our MSQ+ system it wouldn't ruin the opportunity to go back (and would allow it to actually be content for current players as well since they could new game + it). It was made clear there wouldn't be a change to how story works with the game, if someone chose to alternate start they did and if they didn't they didn't the core building of the game wasn't to be changed- just allow different types of players, those who aren't sold on the 150+ hour pre-investment to get to the content they wanted for example (or those who need a more peppy start, since imo FFXIV's start could use with some more pizazz). It's one thing to have 20-40 hours of investment needed or staying current with content vs having 100-200 movies worth of story before you're where you wanted to be

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Yep! Exact same here. For having any criticism of the story, or new player experience, many just assume I myself don't like it. No, I actually like it. I watched and read the whole thing from start to "finish", I enjoyed ARR personally. I was in no rush to get to endgame. I just think SE could do things better, and make it easier for new players to get into this game.

Yep, it's a gigantic amount of time investment for many players to get to the part of the game they may enjoy, and the only way to get there is by paying for a skip. I also don't like the idea of a story skip personally, but new game+ (apparently) alleviates this. Many players will see the cost of both a story skip and level boost, and think it's not worth it, or simply get burned out by the sheer amount of story they have to get through. The gameplay is largely not fun for many people while leveling, not many skills, mechanics don't matter, etc..

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep! Exact same here. For having any criticism of the story, or new player experience, many just assume I myself don't like it. No, I actually like it. I watched and read the whole thing from start to "finish", I enjoyed ARR personally. I was in no rush to get to endgame. I just think SE could do things better, and make it easier for new players to get into this game.

Yep, it's a gigantic amount of time investment for many players to get to the part of the game they may enjoy, and the only way to get there is by paying for a skip. I also don't like the idea of a story skip personally, but new game+ (apparently) alleviates this. Many players will see the cost of both a story skip and level boost, and think it's not worth it, or simply get burned out by the sheer amount of story they have to get through.

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Yeah I think if you've the patience and mild interest in what is from the start then DO THE WHOLE THING, but if you're like "I WANT TO GET TO THE CONTENT I BOUGHT INTO THE GAME FOR".. then hearing "250 hour" wall is like "BYE NOW" lol.

If someone told me ShB was AMAZING but I had to do 200 hours of content to get there and I thought ARR was just okay, I would quit. That's just... ew. You have to sell to me that all 200+ hours are AMAZING for me to buy into that sort of investment. I spent 120 hours on Witcher 3 and I did every single quest. Are you telling me that those 200+ hours are going to be equal to Witcher 3 or better? I know some people will say yes others no, but my point is just "that is a really big ask, might be easier to get people in smoother or something first lol"

It's nice they pruned ARR, I imagine that is helping already. :)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Yeah I think if you've the patience and mild interest in what is from the start then DO THE WHOLE THING, but if you're like "I WANT TO GET TO THE CONTENT I BOUGHT INTO THE GAME FOR".. then hearing "250 hour" wall is like "BYE NOW" lol.

If someone told me ShB was AMAZING but I had to do 200 hours of content to get there and I thought ARR was just okay, I would quit. That's just... ew. You have to sell to me that all 200+ hours are AMAZING for me to buy into that sort of investment. I spent 120 hours on Witcher 3 and I did every single quest. Are you telling me that those 200+ hours are going to be equal to Witcher 3 or better? I know some people will say yes others no, but my point is just "that is a really big ask, might be easier to get people in smoother or something first lol"

It's nice they pruned ARR, I imagine that is helping already. :)

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200 hours of content someone may find boring blocking them from access to content they may not find boring is too much. While I understand this game is story-based, it is also a themepark MMORPG. It can (and does) cater to both types of players.

However, I don't necessarily agree with pruning, or cutting of ARR story content. That's story content lost forever, bits that can give further context, etc. I'd rather they figure out a way to re-implement this stuff different than outright cut.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

200 hours of content someone may find boring blocking them from access to content they may not find boring is too much. While I understand this game is story-based, it is also a themepark MMORPG. It can (and does) cater to both types of players.

However, I don't necessarily agree with pruning, or cutting of ARR story content. That's story content lost forever, bits that can give further context, etc. I'd rather they figure out a way to re-implement this stuff different than outright cut.

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That's why we have a $25 story boost to accommodate those people.

Of course, they then get to endgame and realize they only like Ultimate which appears only once (or twice if they're lucky) per a 2-year expansion. :p

In a way, I see the story being there not to block people but to inform people that this is a main focus, and if they're about to spend money/invest long term in this game, they might as well experience it and see if they like to continue with the game.

Yes, there are people who may enjoy the game at endgame anyway, but again, that's why there's a story boost for those people. Nothing else is needed other than further refinements to the MSQ for people who are willing to go through with it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

200 hours of content someone may find boring blocking them from access to content they may not find boring is too much. While I understand this game is story-based, it is also a themepark MMORPG. It can (and does) cater to both types of players.

However, I don't necessarily agree with pruning, or cutting of ARR story content. That's story content lost forever, bits that can give further context, etc. I'd rather they figure out a way to re-implement this stuff different than outright cut.

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Wait.. I thought the pruning moved them aside to other quests.. no?

That's really unfortunate if so. I haven't replayed the MSQ with the feature so I wouldn't know, thought it was an awesome feature they added I just haven't felt the need yet since I feel I remember the important bits still well enough.

Full agree that it shouldn't be removed. Also why when I was talking about the alternate start that you could still go back and do all the old content once you knew you wanted to invest deeper. Also I thought by leaving the rewards in the old quests you could boost it further, say like getting that free fantasia for the MSQ :p. If someone alternate started and wanted a cool mount, do the old MSQ, free fantasia? do the msq, etc. Naturally some of the quest unlocks can't be kept behind that though otherwise it's all messed up and pointless, buuut you could keep many of fancy rewards locked away in 'memory' until they recall it.

I was pretty happy with some of the ideas too for the alternate start, one for much later (not yet) where you might fall into the void (like Cloud into mako), and like the Cloud scene with Tifa (putting together your fragments, learning about combat, some dream like scapes, hopefully some wonderfully dramatic acting lines from your friends you need to learn about), but now with Emet (who is haphazardly directing you back together, and plucking you back out), when you get out you carry on with ShB where when you meet Emet he puts a finger to his lips and a mischievous smile (minor modification like if you're a legacy player).

Or another like one was based off the HW trailer where you're on a mountain in a snow storm, yet here then you get swept off by an avalanche into a small ishgard hamlet, hobbling your way to the village (learning movements), a claw shatters through like glass in a dream (classic FF transition) and ultima weapon does a beam attack (think some of the transition effects from the anime movie Paprika), given slow motion you have to dodge the attack (learning mechanics), then another, then the claws rip the entire scene away revealing a battle ground where you'll have a few skills, some reveal as the battle goes onto another phase, opportunity to have some of our npc friends jump in, a few quick times, and then as you collapse the scenery goes back to the ishgard hamlet with an npc helping drag you to their house, where you can pick up some quests, learn a little bit the area (and more systems), etc, remember a few things as you go- while finding a flower near the water you might think of Y'sholta or something, hear your chocobo cry, head to ishgard, meet up with Aymeric, have some tea, get to ask more questions, gain some quests that point you to further MSQ tasks and side tasks (like go visit the golden saucer). Massive spark notes version of it all.. I wrote quite a bit on it a long while ago lol.

As far as the game is concerned, lore wise, you did those tasks you just knocked your head a bit too hard, fell in the void, acting silly, or whatever. But due to MSQ+ you can get back to them and 'remember'. When I was playing ShB as a test I was noting things that I would be totally lost on if I hadn't played the other games, I came to the conclusion you might have missed some nuance but you'd not be lost. When they bring up things they usually self describe immediately, like bringing up white auracite again.

Anyway lol . . .

Like the story, I just imagine if I was trying to sell something to someone that the bigger this wall gets that the harder it is going to be to sell(that wall also having issues in that later content is designed by a more experienced team, as they've had more content to make and learn from, so technically you would expect the best stuff to be further away from you, so not only not what you probably joined the game for when you heard about expansion advertisement but also farther away from the good stuff - it can quickly become a painting of "the slog I have to do, to get to the stuff I want to do" and if ARR doesn't grip you tightly then it's likely to spit you out instead), and spending an extra 40% of the game price to avoid the wall is not the solution to making it easier to sell lol (nor even if it was free do I think that's a good solution, potion is bad at 'delivering' players into the game).

While I think skipping the story and then calling it bad is a bit silly.. I honestly really don't care if someone skipped every single line of dialog or story if they were still having fun ANDDDD the story isn't ruined because of it lol (big and, I am not suggesting making story not relate to our dungeons or primals, or whatever else, I'm fine that in general the game asks you to do a content to do another content- just that this concept given time can turn into a huge mountain and one I don't think is good to grow forever without relief, so adding some 'inlets' occasionally could be wise).

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Originally Posted by Avatre

He can burn on the fires of hell and never see the light of day again for all I care.

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Paving the way for 7.0, where you brace the fires of Hell to fight Zenos in a new and exciting, never before seen form! Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Skoosh1218

I dislike when people in this game give you so much trouble and say how they feel bad for you for skipping the story or say all these mean things.

I dislike the story because i find it incredibly boring. I mean it is a snoozefest. even shadowbringers. I skipped everything. every cutscene.

I enjoy the gameplay and MMO atmosphere. People need to stop with this "omg youre skipping story in a FF game HOW DARE YOU, im going after you and your family!!"

I enjoy the games gameplay, design, music, zones. every MMO aspect of it. I dont need the story and i am having a blast without falling asleep.

Please let people play how they want and stop insulting them for not liking the story.

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It's fine not to care about the story.

But don't expect the game design to change because you don't. Final Fantasy is a story-based game franchise and story is already going to be a core component of the game design.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's fine not to care about the story.

But don't expect the game design to change because you don't. Final Fantasy is a story-based game franchise and story is already going to be a core component of the game design.

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FF1 is not a story based game
FFT is incredibly story based and lets you skip all the story by button mashing.
FF14 has some of the worst characters, and some really great stuff crammed in between. Its painful to have to put up with the bad parts of this game to get to the good stuff. AKA any character from waking sands please kill them all. Like I legit thought I liked Raubahns character until I had to hold his hand for 60 quests in SB. Then he was just another baby to sit.

Lets all remember the amazing FF13 and FF15 stories that were flaming garbage as well before we tout FF being a story based franchise.

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Originally Posted by Valknut

I liked Raubahns character until I had to hold his hand .

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Did you at least give it back afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Disappoint

Did you at least give it back afterwards.

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Yeah, he only has one left. He'll need it!

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Originally Posted by Disappoint

Did you at least give it back afterwards.

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Don't worry, Raubahn is all right now.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

200 hours of content someone may find boring blocking them from access to content they may not find boring is too much. While I understand this game is story-based, it is also a themepark MMORPG. It can (and does) cater to both types of players.

However, I don't necessarily agree with pruning, or cutting of ARR story content. That's story content lost forever, bits that can give further context, etc. I'd rather they figure out a way to re-implement this stuff different than outright cut.

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I agree I would rather they not touch a hair on the MSQ and make it optional.

We didn't lose much in the pruning, but it didn't really help either, and it didn't really address the real problems. It seems to be longer now that Crystal Tower is required.

you can continue to skip the story and I will continue to judge you for skipping it

It's no skin off my back if people enjoy the story or is they skip it. As long as it's not hurting anyone, you do you and enjoy the game how you would like. Not like anyone would know if you watch or skip unless you bring it up anyway

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Originally Posted by Valknut

FF1 is not a story based game
FFT is incredibly story based and lets you skip all the story by button mashing.
FF14 has some of the worst characters, and some really great stuff crammed in between. Its painful to have to put up with the bad parts of this game to get to the good stuff. AKA any character from waking sands please kill them all. Like I legit thought I liked Raubahns character until I had to hold his hand for 60 quests in SB. Then he was just another baby to sit.

Lets all remember the amazing FF13 and FF15 stories that were flaming garbage as well before we tout FF being a story based franchise.

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I was paraphrasing what YoshiP has said in multiple interviews, including some in recent months. FF is a story based franchise and story will continue to be integral to the FFXIV game experience. That is their design decision.

Quality of story doesn't make a game any less story based.

Again, people are free not to care about story but they're still going to have to deal with it to some degree because it's a core part of the game's design.

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Originally Posted by Valknut

FF1 is not a story based game
FFT is incredibly story based and lets you skip all the story by button mashing.
FF14 has some of the worst characters, and some really great stuff crammed in between. Its painful to have to put up with the bad parts of this game to get to the good stuff. AKA any character from waking sands please kill them all. Like I legit thought I liked Raubahns character until I had to hold his hand for 60 quests in SB. Then he was just another baby to sit.

Lets all remember the amazing FF13 and FF15 stories that were flaming garbage as well before we tout FF being a story based franchise.

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LOL, nice trolling. You not liking a story doesn't mean that a game isn't story-driven. And again, "the bad parts" and " the good stuff" depends from player to player.

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Originally Posted by Valknut

FF1 is not a story based game
FFT is incredibly story based and lets you skip all the story by button mashing.
FF14 has some of the worst characters, and some really great stuff crammed in between. Its painful to have to put up with the bad parts of this game to get to the good stuff. AKA any character from waking sands please kill them all. Like I legit thought I liked Raubahns character until I had to hold his hand for 60 quests in SB. Then he was just another baby to sit.

Lets all remember the amazing FF13 and FF15 stories that were flaming garbage as well before we tout FF being a story based franchise.

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I fail to see how I is not story based. You're following the story of the four Warriors of Light saving the world from Garland's machinations. And most JRPGs let you go through the dialogue at your own pace. None of them force you to read what you press buttons through, but that's not the same as letting you skip the process entirely.

You mention XIII and XV but then you leave out IV, VI, IX, X, XII. Final Fantasy is a JRPG series. JRPG series are story-based. It's a trait that you see in any of them, no matter who the developer is.

To the OP, it's fine if folks want to skip the story. But then you give up any position to comment on it or complain if development time is spent on it. I'm not the least interested in PvP and I just skip it. Glad it's there for those who like it. We should all be able to find something we enjoy in the game. But we really can't have a valid opinion on the quality of something if we don't personally try to experience it.

It's also fine if someone is like "Oh man, that's too bad, you're missing out". My friends who enjoy PvP say that to me all the time. There's really nothing there to take personally. Unless people are throwing insults at those who don't like the story the way the OP has repeatedly in this thread at those who do.

I have been gaming since the days of BBS. Have read thousands of books, played all genres of games over the years.

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of games I have seen with the quality and scope of Shadowbringers.

I am delighted and elated that Natsuko Ishikawa will be writing for Endwalker, and look forward to the wonders she will create. Shadowbringers made me laugh, made me cry, made me ball my fists in impotent fury..and broke my heart a dozen times over. Not since Lord of the Rings, maybe System Shock 2 and a few others has a story and a narrative captivated me to this level. You may dismiss the story as inconsequential..I for one loved every single moment of it.

Shadowbringers was like a handful of books I started to read..and could not put down even if I wanted to. In the early hours when i could not sleep ( and that has been the case for a long time...grief may fade but never goes away ), I walked the Crystarium and explored Norvrandt at night....

“A sea of shimmering stars. Diamonds strewn across a raven gown, boundless and beautiful.“

One of my greatest regrets is that i may never get the chance to tell them in person ( I had planned to go to Japan for Fanfest before things went south ) what all of it meant to me personally.

For those we have lost...for those we can yet save

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Originally Posted by MsQi

I agree I would rather they not touch a hair on the MSQ and make it optional.

We didn't lose much in the pruning, but it didn't really help either, and it didn't really address the real problems. It seems to be longer now that Crystal Tower is required.

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That is unfortunate! The problem with the way the "pruning", or "cutting was done doesn't make ANY party happy. I think it could have been done better, or other avenues of play could have been introduced. For example, EW will end the current story line, soon is a perfect time to alter the new player experience. As in, allow new players to start here at EW (or later), or at ARR, something as simple as a free jump could work. I just feel like story skips, and the like aren't an elegant way to handle the issue. A story skip just dumps a player into a section of the story, with no context. I have never liked the solution.

My stance has literally never changed on this subject, because I always liked the story. I just get laughed out of the room constantly when I have the audacity to try and think of alternative ways, that I think could make the new player experience better.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

200 hours of content someone may find boring blocking them from access to content they may not find boring is too much. While I understand this game is story-based, it is also a themepark MMORPG. It can (and does) cater to both types of players.

However, I don't necessarily agree with pruning, or cutting of ARR story content. That's story content lost forever, bits that can give further context, etc. I'd rather they figure out a way to re-implement this stuff different than outright cut.

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It is that the narrative of FFXIV is similar to that found in any other JRPG on the market.
Yakuza 7 doesn't really start the good until it's 20 hours of play time.
Person 5 you take even longer
I am playing Yx IX, I have been 10 hours and they have recently introduced me to 2 characters because the first hours in any of these games are about character development, FFXIV instead of using this for character development they use it in WorldBuilding throughout ARR, and Of course, being a game with a history of 5+ years it is clear that "prologue" is much longer than a game that lasts 100+ hours as Persona 5.

You want a perfect example, there you have The Legend of Heroes which is a story that consists of more than 10 games and skipping one means not knowing enough context for some installments such as Hajimami or Sen IV

only story i skipped was OP's

It's a decent story for a video game. The world building is very good though and I'm here for that.

I think people are absolutely free to skip all the cut-scenes and not enjoy the story.

I also feel that 95% of the people who talk about how they skip the cut-scenes and hate the story (yet skipped all the cut scenes so they don't know the story) are at best, wanting everyone to know they have a contrarian opinion since they fell it makes them special... Or at worst, deliberately trolling since they know the vast majority of the player base has a strong emotional connection to the story and characters and that it's not a popular opinion.

I mean, I don't like the Beatles. I feel they are over-rated. Great musicians, sure... But their rock and roll stuff? I'd rather listen to something like Chuck Berry or Little Richard. Their pop-oriented stuff? Give me the Beach Boys. Their psychedelic stuff? I'll take any of the harder edged bands... But I also, 100% understand that in music circles, my opinion isn't popular and if I share it a lot of people will call me out. It's an unpopular opinion to have. If you share an unpopular opinion, you 100% have to expect people to vocally disagree.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

I think people are absolutely free to skip all the cut-scenes and not enjoy the story.

I also feel that 95% of the people who talk about how they skip the cut-scenes and hate the story (yet skipped all the cut scenes so they don't know the story) are at best, wanting everyone to know they have a contrarian opinion since they fell it makes them special... Or at worst, deliberately trolling since they know the vast majority of the player base has a strong emotional connection to the story and characters and that it's not a popular opinion.

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I have a friend who hates the story, they even played through to watch all the cutscenes just to see why everyone got mad at them for not liking it. They're not actively disdainful towards it, you know going to rooftops shouting their opinion. It normally comes up when people are talking about the story or lore and notice they're very quiet, so they try to include them and ask their opinion. Then the secret comes out that they think the story is garbage.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that, the OP wants to be contrarian for funsies.

I like the story, IMO it provides an element that, depending on the player, provides an important part of the game. Even WoW has a story.