FF14 devs just keep doing your thing because my god

I'm sorry, but I watched about half that video and I didn't really see anything wrong with it. It's just a guy who was passionate about WoW. Yeah, he swore a lot.. but so what? "anti-lgbt" seems a bit of a stretch. Like, huh?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm sorry, but I watched about half that video and I didn't really see anything wrong with it. It's just a guy who was passionate about WoW. Yeah, he swore a lot.. but so what? "anti-lgbt" seems a bit of a stretch. Like, huh?

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He's using a LGBT related term with the intent of it being an insult, that's what's wrong with it. And uh...calling an entire faction of players emo <slurs that are totally not allowed here in any context> isn't great either. You don't need to insult anyone to show which faction you prefer. And certainly not in the way he did.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

He's using a LGBT related term with the intent of it being an insult, that's what's wrong with it. And uh...calling an entire faction of players emo <slurs that are totally not allowed here in any context> isn't great either. You don't need to insult anyone to show which faction you prefer. And certainly not in the way he did.

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It's called trash talking, and was probably done in good fun.. It's also a product of it's time.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's called trash talking, and was probably done in good fun.. It's also a product of it's time.

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Yeah many of us dont believe throwing slurs around is "fun"

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's called trash talking, and was probably done in good fun.. It's also a product of it's time.

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Oh I totally get that it was a product of its time but let me put it this way:

If he had said that trash-talk in a Blizzard game, even back then he would have been landed with a pretty hefty ban. The fact that Blizzard chose to promote the sort of language that is literally against the ToS in all their games is what's shocking me above everything else.

I've heard the sort of stuff he said a thousand times before. I have not seen a massive company promote activity that is against their ToS as some form of entertainment at their own convention. That gives very mixed signals to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Yeah that one was crazy, imagine you are in charge of Blizzcon, you see a video where a horde edgelord starts throwing out insults and use derogatory terms for half your playerbase and think "yeah we should totes upload that to blizzcon for everyone to see". It goes to show what kind of people work and influence things in blizzard.

Starts at 5 seconds, they had to non top spam the censoring beep with all the things he said, uncertain if it was censored in the actual blizzcon 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2yvZM1wn04
Uncensored version: his rant starts at 1 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW_Lv0r-l4c



They definitely to to improve things in that area, getting my registration mail took so long I ended up closing the "insert registration code here" window assuming there would be a way to get back to that window from the email.

Ended up needing to wait 24 hours to create my account, they def could update the registration process.

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I have never had issue one with any SE site. You likely speak for the minority. I am sorry you find it difficult to navigate a web site.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Oh I totally get that it was a product of its time but let me put it this way:

If he had said that trash-talk in a Blizzard game, even back then he would have been landed with a pretty hefty ban. The fact that Blizzard chose to promote the sort of language that is literally against the ToS in all their games is what's shocking me above everything else.

I've heard the sort of stuff he said a thousand times before. I have not seen a massive company promote activity that is against their ToS as some form of entertainment at their own convention. That gives very mixed signals to say the least.

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I had to google the guy, but he is a death metal vocalist.. and you guys are shocked by his language? Blizzard was promoting this (apparently) famous person's excitement and passion about WoW.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I had to google the guy, but he is a death metal vocalist.. and you guys are shocked by his language? Blizzard was promoting this (apparently) famous person's excitement and passion about WoW.

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If you don't understand why promoting activity against your own ToS, while promoting a game that uses that ToS, is weird at best...then I don't know what to say to you.

He didn't just drop some F bombs. He literally used a group of people as a slur intended to insult another group of people. I listen to so many kinds of metal and plenty of people in that scene manage to be passionate without using the same sort of phrasing.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

When the devs repeatedly focus on high end content and try to push it down everyone's throat because it is the only play to get gear progression/actually cool rewards it attracts more and more unhealthy gamers who like telling themselves they are some great person for beating scripted content with a group of 19 similar people whose self worth depends on the ingame prestige blizzard gives to high end players. (Which is ironic due to how badly balanced the game is, if you put 20 people who play fotm to beat most mythic bosses the challenge becomes a cakewalk which is why you see world first raid bosses dropping down like flies bar the last 2-3, the skill required to beat with a more balanced and fun comb is far higher but these people dont care about challenge, they care about beating a boss for prestige because their ego depends on it which is why you see them obsess over fotm/stacking broken specs and classes and metaslaving like crazy)

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How is FFXIV any different? Lv1~79 content outside MSQ is only done if you happen to want very specific glamour, need exp to level up, or want more story, which leads into even in XIV people claiming "only endgame matters so just focus on finishing MSQ now". And the same players who complain here about "elitism" are the ones who complain if their "main job" isn't on high demand for said high-end content that supposedly shouldn't be the focus, and that they don't do. The homogenization of jobs is a direct result of focusing on high-end pve compositions. Throwing theme-park attractions outside PvE doesn't change that.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I have never had issue one with any SE site. You likely speak for the minority. I am sorry you find it difficult to navigate a web site.

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When I first tried joining 14 I gave up.
My friends all wanted me to play with them and so the squad assembled. It took a team of 3 over a week to figure out how to set my up with an account, and one of them had just made an account 2 months earlier and still struggled with the process.
I'm happy you didn't have any problems, but the problems are real.
Part of the issue stems from the fact that the site is built by Japanese people, but their coding is all done in English cuz that's just how coding works.
Like, I'm no stranger to horrible Japanese websites. When I lived in Japan I had to deal with them constantly and I still get flashbacks to how bad the bank's site was. But even with experience working with bad Japanese sites 14's was just beyond me.

Blizzard doesn't understand personal progression. SE is starting to head down the same path.

The Blizzard team never understood RPGs. They only had Diablo which is barely an RPG, more like Gauntlet with gear and a few story elements. They just had a good interface which was from there experience with RTSs. As RTSs go they were not nearly as good as Westwood, in the gameplay department and their interface design was already standard in the genre (colorful buttons that make everything clear). The RPG elements that made early wow pretty good were just lifted from other RPGs. But since the team didn't really understand why they were important the game quickly degraded. I remember comments from them like "that's just and RPG element" as reasons for removing them.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Oh I totally get that it was a product of its time but let me put it this way:

If he had said that trash-talk in a Blizzard game, even back then he would have been landed with a pretty hefty ban. The fact that Blizzard chose to promote the sort of language that is literally against the ToS in all their games is what's shocking me above everything else.

I've heard the sort of stuff he said a thousand times before. I have not seen a massive company promote activity that is against their ToS as some form of entertainment at their own convention. That gives very mixed signals to say the least.

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I've literally heard worse in Blizzard games. Here's a reality about companies. They will promote anything they want even stuff against ToS if it will get people to pay money. To think they actually care about proper enforcement of the ToS is just shear ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

I've literally heard worse in Blizzard games. Here's a reality about companies. They will promote anything they want even stuff against ToS if it will get people to pay money. To think they actually care about proper enforcement of the ToS is just shear ignorance.

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Every company cares about image and promoting someone who uses slurs that manage to insult two huge groups of people at the same time, one of which is half your playerbase, is not what any remotely sensible person would call good promotion. Blizzard have the money to make far better and more effective choices...which is actually why this thread exists in the first place.

They do care about enforcing the ToS, but not for the reasons most think. If the ToS isn't enforced the games would become riddled with so much toxicity that a large number of loyal players would leave. Everyone knows gaming communities can't police themselves. It is in Blizzard's interest to enforce it so that they can make current and potential players feel they can have a good time without having to endure constant harassment.

So promoting someone whose actions go directly against that at best gives mixed signals and at worst makes people unwelcome. And unsurprisingly it wasn't well received. What is sheer ignorance was thinking that this sort of promotion was in any way okay.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I have never had issue one with any SE site. You likely speak for the minority. I am sorry you find it difficult to navigate a web site.

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I've heard it said by multiple people and, knowing technology, it's very possible that YMMV.

I personally have never had any problem either. I made one SE account with 2 FFXIV service accounts (one for Steam and one for non-Steam Windows) and now I'm on a second SE account with one FFXIV service account on it and had no problem each time.

On the other hand, I've had problem with Blizzard website trying to use credit card payment.

Also, on the topic of authenticator, while WoW has a convenient notification + button click system, FFXIV's manual authenticator works fine as well in my experience.

Speaking of ToS. Is FFXIV ever gonna deal with their out of control bot issue? No...? just thought I'd ask

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Blizzard doesn't understand personal progression. SE is starting to head down the same path.

The Blizzard team never understood RPGs. They only had Diablo which is barely an RPG, more like Gauntlet with gear and a few story elements. They just had a good interface which was from there experience with RTSs. As RTSs go they were not nearly as good as Westwood, in the gameplay department and their interface design was already standard in the genre (colorful buttons that make everything clear). The RPG elements that made early wow pretty good were just lifted from other RPGs. But since the team didn't really understand why they were important the game quickly degraded. I remember comments from them like "that's just and RPG element" as reasons for removing them.

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Personally I hate role quest and find them as cheap replacements for job quest. You might be able to justify them in Shadowbringers but stripping them from Endwalker seems like a case of cheap penny pinching and slowly killing RPG elements of the MMO.

One big fear a LARGE amount of people have with FF14 is job homogenization and using broad generic terms to describe jobs and also only doing role quest does scare me when it comes to job design in FF14. It is an RPG and they are watering that down.

Cecil in FF4 was Paladin not just tank job. You remove job identity by attempting to save some money because making job quest is hard. This is one big area that is a red flag that I see Square Enix copying Blizzard.

It becomes far to easy to start going down the road of generic borrowed power abilities to save even more money and be even more lazier with job design. WoW is famous for having a bunch of class trainers standing around in every zone that literally do nothing now and serve no purpose.

The next step that will actually make me unsub as the writing will be on the wall is if I EVER see Square Enix start tying new abilities to these role quest instead of being job specific. You cannot claim the MMO is at its most successful ever then go down the penny pinching route when we all know they are making bank off this cash cow.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Also, on the topic of authenticator, while WoW has a convenient notification + button click system, FFXIV's manual authenticator works fine as well in my experience.

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Lots of things are 'fine', doesn't mean they can't improve. Notification system is incredibly easy to deal with, vs typing in a silly string and maybe miss typing it and then wasting even more time fiddling with something that is purely there for security and not 'fun'. (Dealing with it isn't an experience to elongate, if anything the experience should be as short as humanly possible while maintain security- that'd be good design).

As for websites I feel most of FFXIV's webistes are pretty good but I do think the account control section feels a bit 2000 (Blizzard's feels more modern, imo). I've had more issues with SE's than Blizzards in my own experience, but I've hardly had issues with SE's either so it's not much to talk about for myself. I visit FFXIV's account controls like once every expansion though so I honestly wouldn't care either way, but I use the authenticator basically every day. Having to type in the code when I know it could be better is an annoyance, if yet a very mild one.

Or at least as Packetdancer said allow me to store it with my other authentications rather than have a separate app for it. Again it's all a mild annoyance, doesn't stop from playing the game, but "mild annoyance" is not the cornerstone of good UI.

"it's kind of okay I guess" is not how you want to describe your system or give yourself as the quality goal. If you HAVE to pick an area where something is good or bad maybe this one gets left behind, but that really shouldn't be the goal (like if one HAD to pick between ultimate vs island sanctuary, but 'both' in these situations whenever possible would be nice).

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Cecil in FF4 was Paladin not just tank job. You remove job identity by attempting to save some money because making job quest is hard. This is one big area that is a red flag that I see Square Enix copying Blizzard.

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The problem is they can't keep making 17+ storylines and have the MSQ as well. How much of the story in FF4 is strictly about Cecil as a paladin? At some point, Final Fantasy stories are more than simply about what specific jobs the characters have, at least of those I've played, and FFXIV is no different there.

The focus of FFXIV is the MSQ while the job quests served as introduction to the jobs, and I think they've done a decent job at it, but that's all they are needed for.

Also, the continuous progression of a game like FFXIV makes it hard to continue with job-specific storylines. Look at how some people feel about changes to Astrologian and how those changes may or may not affect the validity of the Astrologian job quests.

Moreover, combat itself favors the roles more than specific jobs, so the fact that people like to emphasize jobs over roles is pretty sad. When you're in an instance, what role you are is more important than what job you are if the game has been well made. People need 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 DPS. The specific jobs are for the players to decide, but it's the roles that party should care about.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Lots of things are 'fine', doesn't mean they can't improve. Notification system is incredibly easy to deal with, vs typing in a silly string and maybe miss typing it and then wasting even more time fiddling with something that is purely there for security and not 'fun'. (Dealing with it isn't an experience to elongate, if anything the experience should be as short as humanly possible while maintain security- that'd be good design).

As for websites I feel most of FFXIV's webistes are pretty good but I do think the account control section feels a bit 2000 (Blizzard's feels more modern, imo). I've had more issues with SE's than Blizzards in my own experience, but I've hardly had issues with SE's either so it's not much to talk about for myself. I visit FFXIV's account controls like once every expansion though so I honestly wouldn't care either way, but I use the authenticator basically every day. Having to type in the code when I know it could be better is an annoyance, if yet a very mild one.

Or at least as Packetdancer said allow me to store it with my other authentications rather than have a separate app for it. Again it's all a mild annoyance, doesn't stop from playing the game, but "mild annoyance" is not the cornerstone of good UI.

"it's kind of okay I guess" is not how you want to describe your system or give yourself as the quality goal. If you HAVE to pick an area where something is good or bad maybe this one gets left behind, but that really shouldn't be the goal (like if one HAD to pick between ultimate vs island sanctuary, but 'both' in these situations whenever possible would be nice).

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I said no such thing.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Lots of things are 'fine', doesn't mean they can't improve. Notification system is incredibly easy to deal with, vs typing in a silly string and maybe miss typing it and then wasting even more time fiddling with something that is purely there for security and not 'fun'. (Dealing with it isn't an experience to elongate, if anything the experience should be as short as humanly possible while maintain security- that'd be good design).

As for websites I feel most of FFXIV's webistes are pretty good but I do think the account control section feels a bit 2000 (Blizzard's feels more modern, imo). I've had more issues with SE's than Blizzards in my own experience, but I've hardly had issues with SE's either so it's not much to talk about for myself. I visit FFXIV's account controls like once every expansion though so I honestly wouldn't care either way, but I use the authenticator basically every day. Having to type in the code when I know it could be better is an annoyance, if yet a very mild one.

Or at least as Packetdancer said allow me to store it with my other authentications rather than have a separate app for it. Again it's all a mild annoyance, doesn't stop from playing the game, but "mild annoyance" is not the cornerstone of good UI.

"it's kind of okay I guess" is not how you want to describe your system or give yourself as the quality goal. If you HAVE to pick an area where something is good or bad maybe this one gets left behind, but that really shouldn't be the goal (like if one HAD to pick between ultimate vs island sanctuary, but 'both' in these situations whenever possible would be nice).

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Your quotation reference is incorrect.

That said, while Blizzard's authenticator is convenient, I personally prefer having to type the numbers individually. Pushing buttons reminds me of those malicious popups that people just randomly push ok to dismiss.

Also, there are times when it doesn't work, so I have to push manually in WoW too. And when that happens, FFXIV's slower timing is better for me as I'm not in a rush to type the numbers and make mistake.

I will say Blizzard's website is prettier, but I spend too little time on either to really care. The forum, on the other hand, I prefer FFXIV's. I love having to manually refresh and control what I read, including the pacing.

So it's not a matter of "it's kind of okay I guess" for me. It's a matter of "it works great for what it needs to do and sometimes even better than the alternative." It can be better, but things can always be better.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I said no such thing.

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Are you sure? I think I might've gained mind reading ability temporarily and took it from your mind. :p

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Originally Posted by Edax

I said no such thing.

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Haha sorry man, I used SE's quote system so I can't say how that happened (I cut down the quote that is created by the system, I didn't retype anything - I absolutely never typed your name nor used copy/cut/paste on their post- SE literally took it as such).

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Originally Posted by linayar

Your quotation reference is incorrect.

That said, while Blizzard's authenticator is convenient, I personally prefer having to type the numbers individually. Pushing buttons reminds me of those malicious popups that people just randomly push ok to dismiss.

Also, there are times when it doesn't work, so I have to push manually in WoW too. And when that happens, FFXIV's slower timing is better for me as I'm not in a rush to type the numbers and make mistake.

I will say Blizzard's website is prettier, but I spend too little time on either to really care. The forum, on the other hand, I prefer FFXIV's. I love having to manually refresh and control what I read, including the pacing.

So it's not a matter of "it's kind of okay I guess" for me. It's a matter of "it works great for what it needs to do and sometimes even better than the alternative." It can be better, but things can always be better.

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My point was if there is a way to make it better then it's not bad to do so. Especially for something people may use multiple times a day, unlike maybe account controls (at least for myself that's like once every year or more).


I just read your post as being rather complacent and wanted to call it that as not a great way to improve things. Although I appreciate that you added that you literally prefer to type out stuff (but you could do that with Blizzard's too).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Haha sorry man, I used SE's quote system so I can't say how that happened (I cut down the quote that is created by the system, I didn't retype anything).





My point was if there is a way to make it better then it's not bad to do so. Especially for something people may use multiple times a day, unlike maybe account controls (at least for myself that's like once every year or more).


I just read your post as being rather complacent and wanted to call it that as not a great way to improve things. Although I appreciate that you added that you literally prefer to type out stuff (but you could do that with Blizzard's too).

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Of course things could be better. My point is that, in this case, I don't think Blizzard's way is necessarily better, at least for me.

EDIT: LOL, are you blaming SE's software for the misquote? Hehe.

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Originally Posted by linayar

EDIT: LOL, are you blaming SE's software for the misquote? Hehe.

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You realize I would have had to copy your post and put it into Edax's quote body, or retype Edax quote number line, in order to have done that right? That's a lot of steps that I wouldn't do when I can just click "reply with quote" and remove some text.


I'm absolutely blaming the system because there is no way I could have done that on accident.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You realize I would have had to copy your post and put it into Edax's quote body, or retype Edax quote number line, in order to have done that right? That's a lot of steps that I wouldn't do when I can just click "reply with quote" and remove some text.


I'm absolutely blaming the system because there is no way I could have done that on accident.

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I certainly don't think that you did it on purpose. An accident is a real possibility as you could've put text into your clipboard or used multiquote or whatever.

Don't underestimate user error, but hey, it's no big deal. And if you insist it's the software and not your infallible self, then fine.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I certainly don't think that you did it on purpose. An accident is a real possibility as you could've put text into your clipboard or used multiquote or whatever.

Don't underestimate user error, but hey, it's no big deal. And if you insist it's the software and not your infallible self, then fine.

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I don't copy text, so it wouldn't be placing it within Edax' post (Your statement isn't in my paste history, which I just checked just in case I went bat crazy). It wouldn't be multiquote as it puts quotes one after another quote /quote (also I didn't multi quote him, and I am familiar with the use of it, especially more obvious since I replied to you with a quote first where I didn't need to fix anything, I made an edit/preview to cut yours down and there was only one quote in it, so it shows up suddenly if I had even quoted Edax would be abnormal). If you removed someone's text it would kill that person's quote tags as well, you couldn't get another person's body into another quote without copy / cut paste and or repairing the quote tag. I did none of those.


Of course don't underestimate user error but there is no way I could have got your body into that quote without having to do something I don't do (I don't type quote tags out and if I had to repair the tag it would be obvious I messed something up, and I don't have either of your guy's body and or post numbers copied.


I can see how it seems unlikely I suppose but I've had other weird things happen, like once I was able to edit titles on my phone. (Like I could open the title bar and it would allow me to edit text, similar to when you change a file name on your desktop, not even just my own threads. . . and no it wasn't "inspect element" lol). Or my "first page" had stuff from like 2016, even though my sort was standard and there was 2019 stuff too.

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Originally Posted by linayar

The problem is they can't keep making 17+ storylines and have the MSQ as well. How much of the story in FF4 is strictly about Cecil as a paladin? At some point, Final Fantasy stories are more than simply about what specific jobs the characters have, at least of those I've played, and FFXIV is no different there.

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I'm just telling you that when MMO veterans get in a room and someone ask them to list 5 reasons they think WoW went downhill this always comes up. Once the community accepts this type of stripping of the RPG then job identity goes out the window. Imagine if instead of getting the Dark Knight questline that allowed the primary writer of Shadowbringers and Endwalker to emerge we only had "generic tank quest" as our option.

I get it is easy to dismiss this as a very minor thing but stripping out the RPG elements of an MMORPG really does diminish the experience. I can promise you Blizzard greatly regrets this and after it was removed they have learned in an extremely hard lesson that trying to reintroduce those RPG elements is nearly impossible.

The problem is the people who care start to leave as they no longer have any attachment to their characters identity. It is a mistake that saves time in the short run but in the long term greatly damages the game.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

I get it is easy to dismiss this as a very minor thing but stripping out the RPG elements of an MMORPG really does diminish the experience.

The problem is the people who care start to leave as they no longer have any attachment to their characters identity. It is a mistake that saves time in the short run but in the long term greatly damages the game.

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This is very true and has other dire consequences, as this happened in WoW more and more casual minded people quit, this left the community open to be controlled by extreme tryhards metaslaves who see their character as nothing more than a tool to get high end prestige asap to deal with self esteem issues, they ll abandon their spec or even class if it isnt Fotm and would even change specs or classes per boss fight simply because the one they current were playing isnt 100% optimal, and the community has degenerated so much that you see this attitude and even people telling others what to play or what talents to use in low end content or ridicule people for playing "non meta" because they cant imagine someone playing non meta because they enjoy it, they must be a "bad player" to play non meta.

The rpg element and attachment to one's character has been completely lost in most of WoW's community and anyone who might try to ask for it back is attacked as a "bad noob casual" who "doesnt know how to play" or "lol show me your mythic/arena/m+ achievements" because in a world were prestige and ego are the only thing that matters, that is the community you create.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

"only endgame matters so just focus on finishing MSQ now". And the same players who complain here about "elitism" are the ones who complain if their "main job" isn't on high demand for said high-end content that supposedly shouldn't be the focus, and that they don't do. The homogenization of jobs is a direct result of focusing on high-end pve compositions. Throwing theme-park attractions outside PvE doesn't change that.

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Sorry but I have not seen people say "only endgame matters so just focus on finishing MSQ now" bar that one blatantly obvious troll who goes around saying "nobody cares about the story" and talks about how great high end focus games like WoW are.

If you wanna see a game that has full abandoned everything for the sake of high end you should check out WoW, they quite literally throw scraps to casuals because they have no idea what to do since high end and streamers complained they had to play the rest of the game instead of raid log. If you want more details read my post in end of p1 and start of p2.

I am not saying SE doesnt have any questionable decision but my god they are nothing compared to WoW's terrible design choices and elitist tryhard community that has degenerated so much it cant be saved

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

I'm just telling you that when MMO veterans get in a room and someone ask them to list 5 reasons they think WoW went downhill this always comes up. Once the community accepts this type of stripping of the RPG then job identity goes out the window. Imagine if instead of getting the Dark Knight questline that allowed the primary writer of Shadowbringers and Endwalker to emerge we only had "generic tank quest" as our option.

I get it is easy to dismiss this as a very minor thing but stripping out the RPG elements of an MMORPG really does diminish the experience. I can promise you Blizzard greatly regrets this and after it was removed they have learned in an extremely hard lesson that trying to reintroduce those RPG elements is nearly impossible.

The problem is the people who care start to leave as they no longer have any attachment to their characters identity. It is a mistake that saves time in the short run but in the long term greatly damages the game.

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Yeah, but usually, those "MMO veterans" have a different view of story than what is presented in FFXIV anyway.

Many of them probably can't understand why instanced contents have to be locked behind story quests.

And take the faction war or allied race requirement or race-class restriction or even the covenant system in WoW. Many people have used "RPG elements" as reasons to defend these systems. But coming from Final Fantasy, and especially FFXIV, I see these elements as being in contradiction to the story being told or irrelevant, which means they are the opposite of being an RPG element to me.

To me, restricting gameplay* or putting in anti-QoL features in the name of "choices that matter" or "lore reason" is the worst form of an "RPG element" that you could have, especially when the "lore reason" doesn't even stand up to scrutiny.

* And before someone thinks to say locking dungeons/raids behind story quests is restricting gameplay, it's not, it's restricting content behind content, so that's fine, especially if it's truly story/lore appropriate, which it is in FFXIV.

And so, to get back to the story, putting in role-relevant stories would be more meaningful as an RPG because it shows an expansion of the story in terms of scope as you're not stuck at just looking at your own limited view of a job, especially when the MSQ itself has gotten bigger in scope as well.

I disagree, I don't want the FFXIV team to keep doing what they're doing because it means tossing healers even further to the wayside and making them even more braindead to play, as well as simplifying the tanks further, while also making the kits even more dissasociated from the lore in the process.

I don't want another expansion of patch after patch of "waiting for it to get better" and "wait and see" when that waiting results in ultimately nothing being done or changed. I'm still here, waiting for my old card effects to come back and to actually have more than a one-button dps rotation and to actually have a kit that lines up with the lore, and what do I have to show for it? Absolutely nothing. Less than nothing actually as they're gutting my formerly favorite job even further by stripping away the one sect that actually played like it's own job and not a shitty WHM clone.

Instead I want them to focus more on healers and tanks, actually make them different from each other and play uniquely. And most importantly MAKE THEM FUN AGAIN. Fun should always be a priority over statistics but it's very clear that wasn't the approach they were thinking of with the ShB healer changes. I want them to stop thinking of healer and tank slots as roles to fill with bodies and instead roles to make fun and enjoyable.

They are removing job quests in Endwalker? I really love the job quests to be honest. It really makes me attached to my character and his main job haha

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Originally Posted by Garet

They are removing job quests in Endwalker? I really love the job quests to be honest. It really makes me attached to my character and his main job haha

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They're not removing it completely. Same as ShB, we will get role quest, which thankfully will be 5 instead 4 role (tank, healer, melee, ranged, and caster). And then we'll get our lvl 90 job quest.

Personally, I want to keep the old job quest system. But I do understand the writers are getting overwhelmed by the amount of jobs they have to write. My only issue with ShB role quest is that it isn't about your job, and instead focusing on the cardinal virtues so much. If they can remedy this on endwalker, then it'll be much better for me.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

They're not removing it completely. Same as ShB, we will get role quest, which thankfully will be 5 instead 4 role (tank, healer, melee, ranged, and caster). And then we'll get our lvl 90 job quest.

Personally, I want to keep the old job quest system. But I do understand the writers are getting overwhelmed by the amount of jobs they have to write. My only issue with ShB role quest is that it isn't about your job, and instead focusing on the cardinal virtues so much. If they can remedy this on endwalker, then it'll be much better for me.

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My guess is that they'll use role quests this time to look at how other groups are dealing with the whole "end of the world" thing.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

They're not removing it completely. Same as ShB, we will get role quest, which thankfully will be 5 instead 4 role (tank, healer, melee, ranged, and caster). And then we'll get our lvl 90 job quest.

Personally, I want to keep the old job quest system. But I do understand the writers are getting overwhelmed by the amount of jobs they have to write. My only issue with ShB role quest is that it isn't about your job, and instead focusing on the cardinal virtues so much. If they can remedy this on endwalker, then it'll be much better for me.

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Ah that is cool then. BTW which job quest story is nicer for you? ninja or monk?

I love the Role Quests. Im just curious what they storyline is going to be this time. The ShB Role Quests were about the 1sts Warriors of Light, Endwalker its like...whats the story going to be this time?
Also, every job did get a Job quest. But it was One quest, and it seemed more like "What have you been doing all this time; basically playing catchup and telling your mentor that you kicked butt in another world. Kinda weak, but I guess its a way to say they arn't forgotten.

Yeesh. Like others have already mentioned this is pretty much a CJ hate thread on WoW and maybe Blizz. "I played WoW for 10+ years", well buddy, you're not special, I played WoW for 15+ years, started in vanilla beta, there are literally millions of us. I am by no means a Blizz fanboy, but this thread is pretty much borne of pure sentiment/resentment rather than any objective standards.

Things that FFXIV has:
- Better Story
- Better Crafting/Job System
- Friendlier Community
- Better Player Housing (better than garrisons, so not a high bar)
- Better PVE content overall
- Better Graphics/Player models

Things that WoW has:
- Better Transmog System/Banking/Inventory System
- Better PVP
- Trade Chat
- Better Leveling
- Larger Community, albeit more toxic
- Larger Endgame Community
- In-Game Store that actually works and accepts your payments
- Better Add-ons
- Feels like an MMO

At the end of the day, they're both tab-target games designed for casual players, but one's a single-player oriented story game built in the Final Fantasy Universe and the other's an MMO. It's not a fair comparison.

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Originally Posted by KenXSSS

Yeesh. Like others have already mentioned this is pretty much a CJ hate thread on WoW and maybe Blizz. "I played WoW for 10+ years", well buddy, you're not special, I played WoW for 15+ years, started in vanilla beta, there are literally millions of us. I am by no means a Blizz fanboy, but this thread is pretty much borne of pure sentiment/resentment rather than any objective standards.

Things that FFXIV has:
- Better Story
- Better Crafting/Job System
- Friendlier Community
- Better Player Housing (better than garrisons, so not a high bar)
- Better PVE content overall
- Better Graphics/Player models

Things that WoW has:
- Better Transmog System/Banking/Inventory System
- Better PVP
- Trade Chat
- Better Leveling
- Larger Community, albeit more toxic
- Larger Endgame Community
- In-Game Store that actually works and accepts your payments
- Better Add-ons
- Feels like an MMO

At the end of the day, they're both tab-target games designed for casual players, but one's a single-player oriented story game built in the Final Fantasy Universe and the other's an MMO. It's not a fair comparison.

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I don't agree with you. It is a fair comparison. The actual premise of the OP is highlighting the differences between one dev team and the other. The XIV dev team has fire and passion for their game. The WoW dev team has zero passion for their game and you can see it in their eyes and demeanor whenever they talk about their game. Their lawyer front man can't talk his way out of this one. It is written all over his face. I also believe this issue would be much more apparent if Blizzard did live events. They do not. They hide behind pre recorded events and STILL can't manage to appear interested in their product.

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Originally Posted by KenXSSS

At the end of the day, they're both tab-target games designed for casual players, but one's a single-player oriented story game built in the Final Fantasy Universe and the other's an MMO. It's not a fair comparison.

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Are we calling XIV a single-player oriented game and saying that it's not a MMO am I reading this right?

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Are we calling XIV a single-player oriented game and saying that it's not a MMO am I reading this right?

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Yeah, they’ve ascended to the highest plane of gcbtw: the “ffxiv is a visual novel” plane.

Sorry it’s def an mmo.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I don't agree with you. It is a fair comparison. The actual premise of the OP is highlighting the differences between one dev team and the other. The XIV dev team has fire and passion for their game. The WoW dev team has zero passion for their game and you can see it in their eyes and demeanor whenever they talk about their game. Their lawyer front man can't talk his way out of this one. It is written all over his face. I also believe this issue would be much more apparent if Blizzard did live events. They do not. They hide behind pre recorded events and STILL can't manage to appear interested in their product.

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Unless you've shaken the hand of every of software engineer on both teams, your argument is invalid. You are judging a team of 100+ hard-working software engineers based on the appearance of a few key lead individuals and their marketing team.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Are we calling XIV a single-player oriented game and saying that it's not a MMO am I reading this right?

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No, it's an MMO, but it's a Single-Player Story-based Game first, and then a MMO second. WoW has always been MMO-first, story second. They both aim to achieve different Game Design goals and have different focuses and appeal to different player-bases.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Yeah, they’ve ascended to the highest plane of gcbtw: the “ffxiv is a visual novel” plane.

Sorry it’s def an mmo.

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^ This guy is just a forum troll